The military has a zero tolerance for drug use. I would like to hear your lessons learned.

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 23:03:16 -0400

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/10/16/bidens-youngest-son-leaves-navy-amid-drug-report/20979673/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing9%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D547326

Sources: Hunter Biden leaves Navy after drug test

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Oct 16 at 2014 11:06 PM

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 23:06:57 -0400

This is an example and a lessons learned, clearly drug abuse ends your career. I have heard countless stories, and the major response was I did not think I would get caught.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Oct 17 at 2014 12:20 PM

Maj Kim Patterson — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:20:56 -0400

The problem lies in the disease. It changes your thinking to irrational thought and grandiosity. So the mind scenario goes: I'll just use a little, it won't be enough to get caught, this is amusing/enjoyable etc, a little more won't hurt. There weren't piss tests when I started but from day 1, I knew the consequences and chose not to partake. It was new and had some glitches to be worked out but the program has come along way. And there is consistently the "it won't happen to me" mindset. Of all the soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines what are the chances of me being caught? Well, if your entire unit is getting tested to meet the randomness requirement, you are probably going to get identified. I lost some awesome technicians. As a commander, it was a difficult thing to one week recognize someone for job performance excellence and then read the UA results and inform them they no longer have a position in our military, give them an Article 15 and a dishonorable discharge. Their choices made the consequence inevitable.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Oct 17 at 2014 7:26 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 19:26:32 -0400

I find it disturbing how the military has the audacity to pump us full of habit-forming drugs like sleep meds, anti-depression meds, pain meds etc. yet is so quick to boot someone for coming up "hot" on a urinalysis for smoking weed.

I am not promoting any drug nor am I excusing drug abusers however I do feel the military has to figure out a better way to treat our troops.
Check the block medical care, especially if it's not necessary, only promotes substance abuse.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2014 11:42 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 11:42:15 -0400

First of all thank you Chaplain, for bringing out the studies. I lived those days - my first day underweigh I found myself on the fantail with people shooting up openly & smoking dope openly within eyesight of the XO. Drug gangs and illegal gambling gangs running rampant. Once the testing started and discharges became the automatic answer people got the message. I watched men who were users of only "mary jane" and their slower recognition of emergencies and their even slower reactions. Hell, when I joined the Navy I didn't see a problem with the idea of have a joint at the end of the day. Unfortunately, there is no "end of the day" onboard a naval warship. Emergencies happen 24/7, from stem to stern, top of the mast to bottom of the double bottom. Being stoned does not make you reliable or more capable - in fact, onboard ship, if you're stoned you're a hazard to navigation. Ergo, there's no place for such things onboard ship.

Getting kicked out of the Navy for drug use needs to stay - we (the Navy) tried it the other way and it didn't work. People got killed just so someone could get high.......

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 18 at 2014 2:51 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:51:49 -0400

Honesty is the Best Policy so here I go. I grew up in the 60s and 70s everybody smoked weed. I grew up in a German Irish Town, everybody drank. Both are drugs. I got in the Military (Of Course I lied about my weed use, Everybody Lied). I got my Nations Highest Clearance and I rose to the Position of Master at Arms for COMSPAWARSYSCOM and I also became Urinalysis Coordinator. If you are abusing drugs the Military really can't count on you to do your thing correctly when needed so that is a problem. As far as Recreational Use I don't have a problem with but some are very addictive so I don't see how you can use them without abusing them. There still isn't a good way to test if you are high and how high on THC since it is Fat Soluble and will turn up for a Month in a Pee Test. Now Cocaine is Water Soluble and can be flushed out but it is so addictive they can't flush it out fast enough. Just my thoughts and ramblings.

Response by SGT(P) Karen Lonn made Oct 18 at 2014 11:15 PM

SGT(P) Karen Lonn — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 23:15:05 -0400

Drugs no matter the kind are going to have a negative effect on a person and their performance. I do find it interesting to think about what it will be like 20 years from now. With states legalizing recreational marijuana, eventually it will be legal everywhere. People can say that there is no way the military will ever allow soldiers to use marijuana, but what if they do? Soldiers can use alcohol when they are not on duty and not deployed, so is it that far fetched that many years from now marijuana will be the same? I don't think it is, however, how do you think it would effect our ranks?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2014 12:18 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 12:18:59 -0400

A few months ago I sat in my office and created 27 (!) incident reports in JPAS. Every single case was accompanied by the proper documentation from the last urinalysis. One of the officers was a MAJ with a TS in IT.
I was fuming, one can barely imagine how upsetting this was for me. essentially 27 careers, hundreds of thousands of dollars went up in smoke! no pun intended.
However, I had a job to do, and the military has standards. We cannot play loose with our National Security, we cannot play loose with the rules.
Life in the military is about team work. togetherness! if you can't play your part in the machine, you need to leave.
We are not civilians and we don't have civilians rules... we are different, better, with higher standards. If one cannot keep the standards for which we swore and signed up for, one must leave: voluntarily or involuntarily.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Oct 19 at 2014 1:50 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 13:50:07 -0400

I don't believe the 'zero tolerance policy'. I certainly think it should have zero tolerance and SMs should be separated. There is still Command discretion, and I have witnessed nothing happening to Soldiers who 'pop hot' for drugs as well as for Soldiers who get caught drinking and driving. Personally, I think DUI punishment should be severe, swift and unforgiving. So until the system removes the command discretion from the system, some Soldiers will continue to do what they do without any negative affect on their career! Just my two cents!

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Oct 19 at 2014 6:08 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:08:35 -0400

When I reported to one command after a long drive, in 1972 it was fairly late at night. I was assigned a room and bunk and managed to put my stuff away and climb into my rack and get to sleep. My roommate came in at around 0200 and woke me up to welcome me to the room and ask if I wanted a joint. I said no thanks, go to sleep, and went back to sleep. In the morning as a good ET2 (E-5), I reported him to our Chief and he was put on report. His locker was searched and his drugs confiscated, he was sent to Courts Martial because he was dealing out of the room. He was gone in a matter of days. Everyone in the BEQ knew I was not the guy to offer to give or sell drugs to because I was straight, an exception in the early 70's in some places.

When I reported to Sea Duty in Hawaii, one of the ships in our Squadron had both racial and drug problems. The two were interrelated and we had to bust the drug dealers to solve the problems of the racial unrest too. We deployed as a squadron and one of the ports we pulled into was in Thailand. Prior to arrival, our Staff put out the word that when we left we would do a 100% unit sweep of ALL ships - urinalysis or all members of the crew of all ships! There would be NO exceptions. All personnel returning to the ship would have all packages searched and 10% on return would be searched. In spite of advance warning 5 crew members were caught trying to bring back drugs from ashore. After we left we conducted the 100% urinalysis and 20 Sailors, 1 CPO, and 2 Officers were found to be positive for illegal drugs. All were processed for discharge after Captains Mast (1979 BTW). We really did expect more to pop positive.

In one of the ships I was on, I suspected a member of our Master At Arms Force was using drugs and also letting his friends get by on random urinalysis tests as he observed them. During the last time his number came up randomly, I took the place of our Chief Master at Arms and observed this Petty Officer's test personally. I was watching very closely and he did a normal pee into the bottle. he sealed the bottle and handed it in. At that point we had the bottle taken to the lab and detained him, then bottle was tested and found to contain saline, not urine. A blood test revealed he had traces of illegal drugs in his system. From then on, as members subject to exam reported to the ship crossed the quarterdeck they were escorted to the collection station and only allowed to leave once the collection had been completed.

These are a few of my memories of drugs, there are many, many more. No, I have never used any Illegal drugs even today after retirement. However, I have not been to Colorado to visit relative recently either.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2014 6:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:18:22 -0400

Well the zero tolerance I do not think is true. I know a lot who have been given second, third, fourth chances. It really depends on the CG who is making the final decision to retain or dismiss. Also, up to them the type of discharge. I see more that get to stay in that really shouldn't than those who get kicked out that shouldn't under this rule.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Oct 19 at 2014 6:54 PM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 18:54:48 -0400

I think that its great that the Navy did what it had to do, no matter who his father is

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:43 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:43:03 -0400

I support the navy's decision

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Oct 24 at 2014 2:35 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 14:35:39 -0400

On the point of VP Biden's son being kicked out of the military, I am just glad that someone actually manned up and did it and not give him a free pass because of who his father is. The standard should be applied evenly to everyone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 6:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:01:03 -0400

As my units UPL I say 0 tolerance for any member who fails a UA. I do not want to put my life in someone's hands that depend on drugs to alter there current state of reality. I agree with the Navy 100%. I do not care about rank or who your related to. The U.S. Military has standards and everyone knows them.

Response by SSG Sara Sutton made Dec 23 at 2014 4:52 PM

SSG Sara Sutton — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 16:52:56 -0500

CH (CPT) Davis, I will share some lessons learned from the previous two strikes rule and the current zero tolerance. When I was a junior Medic, I was a TC on a tracked 113. I was in charge of teaching all the newly assigned to my section how to drive "off-road" if you will. Prior to a session of drivers training we had a 100% UA. Afterwards, we headed out with my assigned driver and 5 new drivers. 6 weeks later the results come in. My driver came up hot for about everything you could think of. It was his first time ever getting into any kind of trouble. Long story short, I recommended BCD for placing everyone in that vehicle's life in danger. It went through. I took a lot of heat for not giving him a second chance but he knowingly took us out over some seriously hinky terrain without thinking twice. And no he didn't appear altered in anyway but, his UA definitely said otherwise. Not so long ago I dealt with the current zero tolerance, the Soldier managed to still score and come up hot and drive with others in their vehicle several times while awaiting their chapter for a positive UA to go through. After that previous experience, I have no tolerance for someone else willing to put others at risk so easily.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Dec 24 at 2014 1:07 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 13:07:42 -0500

Never get drawn into an argument with a troop who denies that his UA was valid, such as the guy who spent a whole deployment trying to convince this science teacher that his previous hot UA for cocaine was the result of taking prescription and properly used opiate based meds.

SMH.