The Military Has Overkilled Alcohol With Big Collateral Damage. Do we over-mitigate the risks associated with alcohol consumption?

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 04:36:18 -0500

I can remember back when you were allowed to have two beers during lunch. Do we make alcohol consumption so "forbidden" that it makes it more enticing to service members? I am not glorifying alcohol use but, we like to say we treat service members like adults but when it comes to alcohol do we truly?

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The Military Has Overkilled Alcohol With Big Collateral Damage

The military needs to acknowledge that responsible alcohol usage is part of the solution, not a problem.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 5:20 AM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 05:20:13 -0500

The rank clubs are now used for Retirement Ceremonies, briefings and other borefests.

In my time in, I've never once heard from anyone talking about meeting up at the NCO club for drinks.

If MPs knew people would start going to the clubs again, they would sit in the patrol cars on an off street and wait for anyone who had just as much as a sip of beer to cuff.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2015 5:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Feb 2015 05:47:44 -0500

I've been off active duty for almost 22 years. It sad to see how things have changed. I have some great memories from the enlisted clubs I used to frequent. In Baumholder Germany we even had slot machines.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 3:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:06:53 -0400

I think the most annoying part is anytime alcohol is involved, everyone else who didn't mess up gets blamed for "contributing" to the culture or incident occurring. It's not my job to babysit adults, and it's literally impossible to be with everyone 100% of the time to make sure they don't screw up. No one forces anyone to drink.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 20 at 2015 3:35 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:35:35 -0400

I do miss the EM, NCO, and O-clubs. Mandatory beer calls after big ops, receptions, 4-day send-offs. In Germany, we had a company bar run by the recent short-timer NCO and dui's fell off the map. The BN CDR and CSM would join from time to time. AAFES shut us down because for the first time in.......forever, the soda machines on every floor that stocked Budweiser for $1 weren't sold out. It wasn't anarchy, it was manageable fun and the biggest fear was being banned from the club for bad behavior. There will be drinking. Period. The more restrictions that were imposed in the barracks, the more the DUI's went up. 1 six-pack per man rules made DUIs skyrocket. The MP's wuld just stop every car leaving barracks areas after 9pm. Some posts gave MP's ARCOMs for nabbing a certain amount od DUIs (Fort Irwin, Fort Drum, and Fort Campbell-early 90's). Moderation, people. Look out for your buddies, designated drivers, report abuse and overuse, and PLEASE give the CQ a taxi fund cash box for the strays. That is how you look out for service members.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Apr 20 at 2015 3:46 AM

MSgt Michael Durkee — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:46:09 -0400

When I was stationed at RAF Lakenheath, our section would do a little Friday squaring away with housekeeping and securing the warehouse then we would commence with a Burger Burn in the back of our building. There were plenty of "eyes on" to moderate the food to drink ration, but those were some of the best bonding and team building moments from my early career.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 4:01 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:01:25 -0400

I think that exact thing happens. Put a big, shiny, red button in front of someone and tell them not to push it, right? Same concept.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 4:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 04:21:51 -0400

Yes, we do. People nowadays know that a DUI or any alcohol related incident is a career killer, and they are scared. The times of talking things out over a drink are gone, and it really is sad. There is a difference between drinking with a friend and going on a bender, and most people know their limits. The issue is those few who do not.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 20 at 2015 7:48 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:48:11 -0400

You have to learn your limits. Like anything else.

Unfortunately, if you take alcohol out of the barracks, you have to go somewhere else to get it. That means driving. Well #$%^, now you have the chance of a career ending DUI/DWI.

All right, so let's give the guys the ability to keep a 6 pack (no hard alcohol) each. But only if you're 21. #%^#^, the average age of the military is 25~. That includes EVERYONE. The average age of EVERYONE in the military including crusty Generals & SgtsMaj is 25~. We've got a lot of young guys running around.

We don't afford them the opportunity to learn their limits, nor do we "smack them around a little" (vice burn their career) burning the learning process.

Gone are the days of the local E-Club (walking distance from the Barracks) and your squad just hanging out with a few beers. If you get rowdy, the NCO giving one of your buddies the stink-eye to get him the hell back to the room, and extra PT in the morning because "Schultz" was an idiot last night. We learned how to police our own.

On Pendleton we had "Arrive alive cards" (Taxi cards which would get you back on base even if you had no money. You paid it back. No questions asked). Libbo briefs were "Everyone got the 1SG, SGT, CO, MY! phone number? Alright. If you get into any trouble, call me. We'll come get you. We'll deal with the issue after that. I'd rather come get you if you called, than a Federali."

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 20 at 2015 8:05 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:05:37 -0400

I too remember the "two-beer" lunch, albeit briefly, when I first arrived at my first duty station, Ft. Carson back in '88. Each brigade sized element had it's own EM Club (Raiders Den, Bulldog Lounge, Chiefs Den etc) as well as the NCO and Officer's Clubs. Hell I met my wife at the Bulldog Lounge and we are still together 27-years later lol! I also remember when unit activities included at least one keg of beer as well as the non-alcoholic beverages for those who didn't imbibe. As the EM clubs began to go the way of the Do-Do bird, and we moved away from alcohol being allowed at unit functions, there was a rapid increase in DUI and other alcohol related incidents off-post and we went "full-potato" in how we treated adults and alcohol. As I grew in rank during my career I was always wary of having even one drink during the occasional "Hail & Farewell", "Stable Call" or "Right Arm Night", for fear of receiving the "stink-eye" from someone senior to me or the possibility of getting pulled over after I left the establishment and getting put through a battery of tests to determine whether I was a candidate for the drunk tank and ASAP. Like a lot of other areas, we as leaders fail to do a good job of mentoring our service members about alcohol consumption; seems we are more interested in losing our minds when they step on themselves than "teaching" them responsibly how to handle in moderation.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 12:23 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 00:23:11 -0400

I agree that the pendulum has swung too far the other direction. I remember when my wife had courtesy patrol duty at Fort Polk a few years back. Their primary job was to pick up drunk Soldiers at the local bars and ensure no one was getting disorderly. The ridiculous part about it was that they were supposed to take these troops to their chain of command, as if they had done something wrong by being drunk in a bar. More often than not they were simply taken home. I'm of the opinion that unless the police were called or they were disrespectful to the courtesy patrol, there's no reason to involve a troops chain of command for having a few drinks. Everybody knows the penalty for a DUI. I like to think most troops would be smart enough to take a taxi back on post.

Why not instead encourage troops to drink responsibly on post and use the courtesy patrols to take troops back to their barracks? Instead of pretending troops aren't going to drink we might as well focus on damage control. Our current approach obviously isn't working.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Apr 21 at 2015 7:42 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 07:42:32 -0400

Personal accountability. We all knew the rules about DUI and getting into trouble with local law enforcement, public drunkenness, pissing in the parking lot, you name it. Many small infractiions were ignored but the big ones were not.

It seems the miltiary wants to wrap soliders/sailors/airmen and Marines in bubble wrap to protect them. It is all about safety and less about letting loose and enjoying your time off/away.

I don't drink much now but I did back then. We bent many rules, flat out broke some others but unless the polices were involved it was almost always forgotten.

One of the nicest e-clubs I ever went to was the Coconut Grove on Clark AFB in the Phillippines back in 82-83. That place was pretty incredible and Clark was surrounded by a pretty significant local bar scene, trust me, I checked a few of them out.

It is a little lame where we have landed in regard to a lot of policy in the military. This is not the Boy Scouts.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 4:22 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:22:15 -0400

I came in just as the clubs started going away, but I remember some productive social events on a friday afternoon over a beer or two. As a lifestyle choice I don't drink, but a single drink at a decently regulated social setting seemed to have productive effects. At Quantico the basement of the schoolhouse had a keg specifically for after-school socialization, war stories, and professional development.

While the DoD has veered away from that environment, it continues to do both extremes at the same time. You either can't touch a drop, or you go to an event where binge drinking is highly encouraged. I don't know if it's still the law, but recently when airmen got to Korea they couldn't drink for the first 30 days. I can only imagine how many benders happened the weekend after day 31. At the same time, I've attended unit balls where half the contents of the grog are drunk by the presenter before putting whatever is left into the bowl to a cheering crowd. One of the reasons I try not to attend balls anymore is I know I'm going to be one of the only sober people in the building and I have better things to do than watch people I work for and respect revert to college party goers. The last one I attended an entire platoon worth of soldiers drowning out the guest speaker because they were all hanging out right outside the ballroom roaring drunk. Until the culture can figure out how to have events with moderate and safe drinking you're going to keep seeing an all-or-nothing approach on both ends of the spectrum.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 7:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 07:51:24 -0400

The way we treat our soldiers regarding alcohol is indicative of how we treat them with everything else. We have forgotten how to hold individuals accountable for their individual actuons and apply policies in a broad manner as step to mitigate or eliminate the problem on paper. We as a country have demonized alcohol consumption to the point that it is enticing to younger teens and college age minors to where they abuse it because they are not taught any better at a younger age. If you wear the uniform, you are expected to conduct yourself at a higher level than a frat member. Allow NCOs to do their job and mentor their soldiers and keep them in check. Create policies that foster comraderie and responsibility. I'd rather keep my Joes and Janes close and show them that they can have fun while drinking without letting it get out of hand because we look out for each other as we should be doing. Why is suicide rate up? Because we don't know our soldiers as well as we think.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 2:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 02:06:33 -0400

We over mitigate everything....death by powerpoint. We also expect far too much from leaders when it comes to the screwups of their people....which is what drives the mitigation to begin with. A leader is responsible for the performance of the unit, not the decisions or actions of individuals.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 25 at 2015 9:30 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 09:30:19 -0400

When I got back from Iraq I know a couple young soldiers who got themselves in trouble by going out on a binge, getting plaster and written up. In my opinion GO #1 was the main factor.

When I deployed to NATO HQ in Pristina, I wasn't assigned to Task Force Falcon, so I wasn't under GO#1, the same as all other Americans there. We were able to drink when off duty, and at the same time we KNEW THE RULES. If you reported to work with booze on the breath, you got busted, you paid, not the entire camp. If a bar served "drunk" service members, they got shut down. Everyone watched out for their buddy. We were adults and treated as such.

I feel the American service members if treated like adults will act like adults. Those breaking the rules get punished to the max. Seeing this, will also let other know "Don't break the rules".

I remember with my Engineer Platoon, we'd get together after duty, have a few, but we all watched each other, no one drove home after drinking too much and no one was pressed to drink. We took care of each other and had no problems.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 1:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 13:34:33 -0400

We absolutely have killed alcohol. When's it's gotten to the point that someone is labelled an alcoholic because they are a "pattern drinker" by having the same amount of alcohol on the same day at the same time (the counselor was shocked when she was informed the occasion was catholic mass), then, yes, it's gotten out of hand. When the MPs knock on a barracks room door to tell them to turn their music down and there is a beer bottle within sight and it goes on the blotter as an alcohol related incident, then, yes, it has gotten out of hand.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2015 10:47 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 May 2015 10:47:16 -0400

The military has become so alcophobic (not really a word but it fits) that it has made the situation worse. A DUI or most any alcohol related incident will stop your progress dead in its tracks and two will get you put in for mandatory separation. The rules are there and individuals just need to be held accountable for their mistakes. Like you I'm not saying we should advocate a 20 year bender like you joined a frat and never left but let's be sensible because all the wrenching down hasn't done a whole lot for the alcohol related incident numbers.