The Military Then and Now. Are our forces better than they were in 1945?

2016-08-22T10:18:43-04:00

Oh the times they are a changing!

1945 - NCO's had a typewriter on their desks for doing daily reports.
2016 - Everyone has an internet access computer, and they wonder why no work is getting done.

1945 - we painted pictures of girls on airplanes to remind us of home.
2016 - they put the real thing in the cockpit.

(see comments for full text)

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 22 at 2016 10:20 AM

2016-08-22T10:20:04-04:00

MILITARY THEN AND NOW

1945 - NCO's had a typewriter on their desks for doing daily reports.
2016 - Everyone has an internet access computer, and they wonder why no work is getting done.

1945 - we painted pictures of girls on airplanes to remind us of home.
2016 - they put the real thing in the cockpit.

1945 - your girlfriend was at home praying you would return alive.
2016 - she is in the same trench praying your condom worked.

1945 - if you got drunk off duty your buddies would take you back to the barracks to sleep it off.
2016 - if you get drunk they slap you in rehab and ruin your career.

1945 - you were taught to aim at your enemy and shoot him.
2016- you spray 500 bullets into the brush, don't hit anything, and retreat because you're out of ammo.

1945 - canteens were made of steel, and you could heat coffee or hot chocolate in them.
2016 - canteens are made of plastic, you can't heat anything in them, and they always taste like plastic.

1945 - officers were professional soldiers first and they commanded respect.
2016 - officers are politicians first and beg not to be given a wedgie.

1945 - they collected enemy intelligence and analyzed it.
2016 - they collect your pee and analyze it.

1945 - if you didn't act right, the Sergeant Major put you in the brig until you straightened up.
2016 - if you don't act right, they start a paper trail that follows you forever.

1945 - medals were awarded to heroes who saved lives at the risk of their own.
2016 - medals are awarded to people who work at headquarters.

1945 - you slept in barracks like a soldier.
2016 - you sleep in a dormitory like a college kid.

1945 - you ate in a mess hall, which was free, and you could have all the food you wanted.
2016 - you eat in a dining facility, every slice of bread or pad of butter costs, and you better not take too much.

1945 - we defeated powerful countries like Germany and Japan.
2016 - we come up short against Iraq and Afghanistan.

1945 - if you wanted to relax, you went to the rec center, played pool, smoked and drank beer.
2016 - you go to the community center, and you can play pool.

1945 - if you wanted beer and conversation you went to the NCO or Officers' Club.
2016 - the beer will cost you $2.75, membership is forced, and someone is watching how much you drink.

1945 - the Exchange had bargains for soldiers who didn't make much money.
2016 - you can get better and cheaper merchandise at Walmart.

1945 - we could recognize the enemy by their Nazi helmets.
2016 - we are wearing the Nazi helmets.

1945 - we called the enemy names like "Krauts" and "Japs" because we didn't like them.
2016 - we call the enemy the "opposing force" or "aggressor" because we don't want to offend them.

1945 - victory was declared when the enemy was defeated and all his things were broken.
2016 – we haven’t a clue as to what victory is or what it takes to achieve it.

1945 - a commander would put his butt on the line to protect his people.
2016 - a commander will put his people on the line to protect his butt.

1945 - wars were planned and run by generals and Admirals who knew how to fight and win.
2016- wars are planned by politicians who haven’t a clue about fighting or winning.

1945 - we were fighting for freedom, and the country was committed to winning.
2016 - we don't know what we're fighting for, and the government is committed to social programs and political correctness.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 22 at 2016 10:26 AM

2016-08-22T10:26:01-04:00

Interesting comparison. Thanks for sharing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 10:29 AM

2016-08-22T10:29:14-04:00

Yea a very sad and tragic turn of events. It would be funny if it was not so sad.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 22 at 2016 10:30 AM

2016-08-22T10:30:32-04:00

Actually, I do believe they are better in many ways. Our problem is the constraints we place on them that prevent them from enjoying the feeling of success they deserve. During WWI&II, we took pride in our wins and didn't take action every time someone made an error in judgement. Granted some exceptions by Patton, but overall the average Snuffy could fight and win. Today's troops have the training and ability to win, but our leadership does not if it means to what is necessary to win.

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Aug 22 at 2016 10:32 AM

2016-08-22T10:32:05-04:00

An exceptionally dark and cynical view of today's military. Many of your "observations" are completely untrue, and some are ridiculously sexist.

We are better trained and better equipped than we were in 1945. Yes, we are better now than we were then. Mostly because of some of the changes you lament in your list.

There are a couple things you mention that are true, but not because the military has become worse, but because the politicians have inserted themselves into decisions they have no business making.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Aug 22 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-08-22T10:40:32-04:00

Each passing generation thinks the next is ruining the party. Different time different place- all of the items are not true reflections some humorous and hope that was the point. I am the generation ready to leave and not long ago learned what I know from my mentors and coaches. Is it the failure of those who lead us or the adaptation to the society in which we live? I think we take what we have and prepare them as we were prepared.

Expectation and personal accountability has always been my main focus as a subordinate and as a mentor. We are an all volunteer force and we are still number one. We may not be feared as we once were- but when tested we have brought our A-game and reinstated that fear into the enemy.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 22 at 2016 11:02 AM

2016-08-22T11:02:23-04:00

Define 'better'?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-08-22T11:57:51-04:00

I'd say America as a whole was better then when it came to hard work and ethics. As for today, the Army of 1945 didn't have the equipment we have today. Our Rangers are better equipped and trained than the Rangers of WWII for example. Both I would say put in hard work and effort though.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Aug 22 at 2016 12:07 PM

2016-08-22T12:07:39-04:00

Sir

I feel this is an extremely limited view on our fight force of today

As well as the sexist remarks in them

Response by SSG Drew Cook made Aug 22 at 2016 12:09 PM

2016-08-22T12:09:19-04:00

This just shows your ignorance, LTC. You know nothing of today's military. I have the utmost of respect for previous generations, but good sir, we would kick your ass.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 12:19 PM

2016-08-22T12:19:01-04:00

What is wrong with putting "the real thing" in cockpit? If referring to women in the cockpit as the real thing, as in "REAL PILOTS" then as a feminist I would agree, but when comparing those real pilots to WWII nose art, no.

Nice conservative slant, but no real substance. The world was not better when women were treated as second-class and somehow less-capable citizens.

Response by CW4 Scott Kjendlie made Aug 22 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-08-22T12:33:32-04:00

I question the validity of this post. I can guarantee that you were not in during 1945, so you have no proof that it was in fact "better", or that the conditions you mentioned actually existed. As you are retired, you are not in now, so you have no truth in your limited, biased and sexist post. You're right, times have changed. Women have more right than ever before and are allowed and capable to have the opportunity to advance in their careers. Technology is better, service members are better trained, thanks in part to those that came before us. Your vision of 1945 is skewed by Hollywood. One fact remains, the people the same. Then and now, you could always count on the military to get the job done.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-08-22T13:23:05-04:00

better? I bet that we are if we could compare some metrics. How about this one: we're certainly doing more with less personnel.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Aug 22 at 2016 1:50 PM

2016-08-22T13:50:36-04:00

So what wrong with women in the cockpit, unless you see them strictly from your cockpit? Play on words but you get the message.

Response by SGT William Howell made Aug 22 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-08-22T14:14:44-04:00

WW2 Total Deaths 407,000 Generations lost because bloodlines died in a ditch...Unknown. You can keep your typewriter.

Don't even get me started about the wo0men in combat. Ask the Germans on the Eastern Front about women in combat roles, they will tell you that they got their ass kicked. Well if they had lived.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Aug 22 at 2016 3:56 PM

2016-08-22T15:56:18-04:00

Thank you Lt Col Jim Coe for taking some of the heat off of me. I'm just going to take a break while you draw fire. BTW, the young men and women serving today are bred of the same stuff as then. Don't confuse the Occupy crowd or the children huddling in safe zones on campuses with those who serve today. To be honest, we had some like them back then, only then we called them "bolo's".

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Aug 22 at 2016 4:24 PM

2016-08-22T16:24:37-04:00

1945-You took an Oath and did your duty for your Country
2016- ditto

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 22 at 2016 4:24 PM

2016-08-22T16:24:38-04:00

No.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 6:07 PM

2016-08-22T18:07:26-04:00

The weaponry is First Class. The troops today can't touch the Greatest Generation. Those men went to war for the duration. Soldiers today complain about six or none month tours. The people today are well taken care of, but they're are also pampered by comparison.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 6:38 PM

2016-08-22T18:38:26-04:00

The only people who find offense to this are those who should retreat to their safe spaces and stay there.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Aug 22 at 2016 7:23 PM

2016-08-22T19:23:31-04:00

The only question that matters is "Are we better than our next opponent?"

But to answer the question presented, everything is relative. For a valid comparison you would need to ask if our forces/troops are better prepared as compared to the readiness of the enemy they faced in 1945 or are facing in 2016. In 1945, we were far less prepared than our enemies in Europe and the Pacific. However, we had both a statistical advantage and the time/ability to increase training and production to a wartime footing (before entering the war) without being attacked on the home front.

In 2016, it depends on the enemy:
IS/Terrorism in general- Yes we are far better prepared then them on all fronts. What we lack is a civilian leadership willing to take action.
Iran/North Korea - Yes we have them both beat in troop numbers and equipment/technology.
Russia - We may have a slight equipment/technological advantage. Troop training/preparedness is probably closer to even. In a fight, it depends on if we are willing to strike early and hard.
China - They have a statistical advantage on most fronts and may have a slight technological advantage over us. They are rumored to have fielded a radar that nullifies our stealth aircraft, have extremely good/modern weapons systems and are well outfitted in space/anti-satellite systems.

Of course this is all conjecture, since I have no idea what awesome stuff is sitting in Area 51 (or its more modern sister sites) and is just waiting to be brought out to destroy a potential enemy. However, that cuts both ways, since I also don't know what neat technological innovations our potential enemies have waiting in the wings to use against us.

Response by SFC Bill Snyder made Aug 22 at 2016 7:36 PM

2016-08-22T19:36:18-04:00

Well, for one thing, there were a lot more of them in 1945 then there is now.

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Aug 22 at 2016 8:18 PM

2016-08-22T20:18:22-04:00

Well the WW2 GI joes beat the hell out of Germany and they smoked, drank, chased skirts and all kinds of nonsense, but they won. What war after WW2 have we won flat out? Some of you may need to go to your safe place now so get along an be afraid!

Response by SGT Alan D. Garrison II made Aug 22 at 2016 9:43 PM

2016-08-22T21:43:09-04:00

I believe there are pluses and minuses to the newer generation. Some of the newer generation are whiners. Stress cards and etc. Sad. Hazing is no longer yet some good some bad yet most is a bonding situation or training situation. The WWII generation were hard core fighters not whiners or equal opportunists. They did what needed done when it had to be done. Today's generation is also not allowed to lead as they should. Too many higher ups dictating or not allowing the lower ranks to lead as they should. I seen from 94 when I went in to 07 when I got out the change. It blew my mind. The advanced stuff the soldiers have and are capable of doing now are glorious though. The only other issue I see is the gender issue of forcing certain sections to accept women into their roles or etc. I'm not gender bias but if they want to make it equal then all the training etc should be equal for that role. Via if it's time, weight limits for gear etc make it equal if they want equality in those fields.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Aug 23 at 2016 2:16 AM

2016-08-23T02:16:48-04:00

Today's soldiers are better equipped, trained, and supported. They are pros, both part timers and full timers. The PC culture that is impacting the military sucks. But that is coming from civilian oversight. I have no problem with increasing women's roles as long as they can pass the same physical and mental standards as everyone else. I also think that pregnant without permission needs brought back as a malingering charge. A female warrior most likely would agree since it supports unit readiness.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Aug 23 at 2016 9:44 AM

2016-08-23T09:44:42-04:00

See the apple. it is really, really red. It is so delicious and crunchy. You don't have to peel it to eat it. It is wonderful. Consider the lowly orange. It's not red, or crunchy and you have to disassemble it to eat it. Which is better?

Response by PO2 Pete Haga made Aug 23 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-08-23T17:04:13-04:00

I feel that if our troops in WW2 had the same technology we have now the war would have been a lot shorter. with the Great Generals and Admirals they had then it would have been a shorter war. and in no time before or sense have we had a better or stronger willed assembly of Military might than in WW2.