Posted on Mar 6, 2014
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Leaders,
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
EO
Advice
Policy
Confederate Flag
Barracks
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 2340
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I have a "Rebel" flag tattooed upon my right shoulder. I know the history and meaning of my flag. Although history was written by the victor, the South has a strong and proud history. If someone has an issue with a symbol that is a strong part of our cultural and military history they should crack open a book.
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MAJ Dennis Foote
Seriously? You're proud of a history of enslaving people and continuing their oppression after their emancipation.
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SPC Kent Laughlin
MAJ Dennis Foote - try looking at the whole picture for once. Slavery was a horrible institution that was an outgrowth of man's history of what to do with the spoils of war. Africans did it to themselves for over 200 years BEFORE the first shipload was picked up by Europeans and then sailed to EUROPE. In some places in the middle east it is still practiced. The Irish were sold into slavery in the USA, but it was conveniently labeled as servitude thus the uneducated think only black folk attacked and subdued by other black folks were the victims of slavery AND that slavery only existed in the USA, when in fact it was outlawed after a long battle was waged in the USA to include 4 bitter and bloody years with families and countrymen murdering each other in the name of human fairness.. The politicians of the time talked the problem to death then finally one man had the courage and conviction to place an important document into the fray.. The Emancipation Proclamation was a statement from the highest most important political position for that special document to be given birth. President Lincoln threw caution to the wind as he would soon be facing another election and this was thought to have been his suicidal move against the states wanting slavery to continue.. Well we know the history and since that time the cloud of Jim Crow was a lasting population shaper until it was slowly removed. I saw the dying embers in our city of Tulsa, but soon even those public remnants were removed. The South is history and slavery was/is not the only thing of history remaining. The battle flag of the confederacy is just that, an army identifier NOT A SYMBOL OF SLAVERY. What we are seeing everyday with the population infighting is what will tear this country apart and the videos will soon show the moment of push back.
Time to get past 1861 ...
Time to get past 1861 ...
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Just a few thoughts. First of all, Sgt Newman is correct, and SSG Woods makes the salient point that the American flag has some stains of the same color on it as well.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer thank you for your service, and for sharing your perspectives on this issue. Your points are well received, but I'd like to point out that the flag of Imperial Japan has not changed since well before WWII. It's literally the same national flag.
Regarding PR, I wasn't attempting to denigrate PR in any way. Please read one, or more of my explanations regarding PR. Suffice to say, you are correct in saying PR is a US Territory, and though you attempt to equate it as a State, it is not. In fact PR repeatedly votes against Statehood, while enjoying the benefits, and protections of US citizenship, but not having to pay US Federal income taxes. Again, no criticism intended. Most of us would take that deal if we could.
Respectful regards.
Regarding PR, I wasn't attempting to denigrate PR in any way. Please read one, or more of my explanations regarding PR. Suffice to say, you are correct in saying PR is a US Territory, and though you attempt to equate it as a State, it is not. In fact PR repeatedly votes against Statehood, while enjoying the benefits, and protections of US citizenship, but not having to pay US Federal income taxes. Again, no criticism intended. Most of us would take that deal if we could.
Respectful regards.
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SFC (Join to see)
Confederate flag effectively banned from military installations
Defense Secretary Mark Esper's guidance lays out which flags can be flown in public, and the criteria don't support the Confederate battle flag.
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The Confederate flag offends some because of what it represents. Ok that's fair.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I'm offended that you think children shouldn't work. I've been workin since I was 5 yrs old. I made 10 cents an hour and was grateful to have the job. At home I cut the wood for the stove for cookin and heat. I pumped the water and carried it in. I used the privey, worked the garden, shoveled the snow and fed the dog.
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SP5 Wick Humble
Locking up migrant children was enough stain for my lifetime! We don't respect nor protect children any more, and brother, they know it! I taught over 30 years, and was 100% respectful (the old golden rule, and it works!) but saw the effects of child marginalization, if not outright abuse, almost every day. Are these the 'rapists, drug trafficers and mental cases' that we mean to keep out? Not a 5-year-old -- and believe me, those kids will never completely recover! Sick!
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LTC Jorge Cordero
SPC Matt Ovaska - There is a big difference between mowing lawns of shoveling snow than working in a textile mill for 16 hours as a 9 year old.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I'm sorry, you worked in a textile mill for 16 hrs. a day. Those mills are very noisy. At 9 yrs old, you couldn't possibly reach the spools...
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