The U.S. Armed Forces: Have You Found A Better Place To Have That Honest Conversation About Race?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 01:13:24 -0400

It happened to me this weekend. I had a chance to stop and get a Starbucks! I had forgotten about their new campaign, where their baristas offer to enter into a discussion about racial issues in America with you, the customer; but Lisa, my friendly 20 year-old blonde barista, was undaunted, and offered to enter this vast minefield with me. "Lisa," I began, "What if I were to tell you, of an opportunity to meet and interact with a vast and diverse assortment of people from every state in the nation, plus all U.S. territories; people from every racial and ethnic group; people from most religious faiths; and people from virtually every socioeconomic layer in our society? If I told you such an opportunity existed, Lisa, would you consider looking into it?" She smiled, but looked hesitant. "What is this place?", she asked, tentatively. "It's not so much of a place as it is a thing," I said, "an institution, and one of the oldest in the nation. I'm talking about the U.S. Army, Lisa!" She smiled, more nervously now. "Lisa, if you want the most honest understanding of race in America, you can get it at Basic Training..."

Was I correct? I know that in my case, Basic Training was a significant cultural event when it came to understanding and appreciating others, particularly when it came to matters of race and diversity. Does this still hold true today? Sound off RallyPoint, and let me know what say you!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 2:24 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 02:24:35 -0400

The more SHTF situation you're subjected to, the less time you have to ponder about race (even gender), but to get through mission in one piece. Combat and high-speed tours are the best at maintaining unit cohesion.

Lesser or lower speed commands tend to bring complacency, laziness and separation/segregation amongst members, and that's where problems happen a lot of times.

Keywords here: laziness and complacency. They bring out old habits and biases, making unit less 'combat', more 'culture' ready, and can also subconsciously breed racism.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 23 at 2015 2:59 AM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 02:59:50 -0400

Hooah and well done MAJ Private RallyPoint Member!

Our Armed Services are the only true melting pot left.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 3:29 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 03:29:05 -0400

Give that man a Recruiter Badge!!! I agree with you 100%, I have stated on this forum before that I believe the U.S. military has the best (not perfect) EO model of any corporation in the world (it helps that failure to abide is punitive).

As CSM Uhlig stated, it is a true melting pot and it's wonderful to be a part of it!!!

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 23 at 2015 3:53 AM

SGT Tyler G. — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 03:53:30 -0400

It is one of things I love about the military. How I've gotten to meet people from almost every walk of life, from every corner of the country, from a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds. It has helped my broader understanding of American culture and diversity, which is great for understanding where people are coming from, even when you disagree with them.

Response by PO1 Stephen Caldonetti made Mar 23 at 2015 6:20 AM

PO1 Stephen Caldonetti — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 06:20:53 -0400

Well I do agree with the military being the most diverse job in The United States, I was never one to judge a person on their sex, skin color, religious beliefs, or political stances. I took a page out of Dr. Martin Luther King's book and judged people by the content of their character. I met a ton of great people while serving in the Navy, and I will say that I was happy to put my life in their hands as I would do the same for them with no questions asked. I joined the Navy and met many sailors, and when I left, I had a lot if brothers and sisters that I was proud to have served with.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 11:25 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:25:21 -0400

Yes, Sir! I came from a very diverse area in Northern NJ. I was truly astounded at some of the females in my Basic Training/AIT environment that had genuinely not ever come in contact with another race before that. Once I got past the "are you kidding me?", I realized that it was a massive sociological observation for me.

It was actually a very cool time. Aside from normal b*tchy girl stuff, we all got along really well. :)

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 23 at 2015 11:53 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:53:12 -0400

My answer: Lisa, just let me pay for my coffee and be on my way.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 23 at 2015 12:19 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 12:19:32 -0400

Those words could be one of the best recruiting tools that our nations armed forces could ever develop and utilize to show the rest of our society "how it's done". Very well said sir, well said indeed!

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Mar 23 at 2015 1:19 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 13:19:31 -0400

From the age of 5 I grew up in an all white/ native Indian area of our country. The local racial joke were Polish and Finnish in nature. Fortunately I was born at Fort Sam Houston military hospital and had friends that were of different races prior to moving to the western end of the upper peninsula of michigan. So boot camp wasn't a big shock to me as it would have been to a native born yooper.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 23 at 2015 1:21 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 13:21:35 -0400

This looks like a great way to counter point this odd program.

Did she seem intent on not looking or joining? Did she look at you as some fascist baby killer?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 1:25 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 13:25:47 -0400

I'm going to say no. Despite the cultural differences recruits have entering in the military, basic training serves to erase those differences and mold you into a United States Service Member. Doctrine like shaved heads, shared living spaces, and uniform clothing serve to remove some of the previous superficial cultural differences. One cultural similarity among recruits though is a desire to serve and be fit enough to do it.
Also, I can't speak for all services, but most of the people I met in the service did gradually fall into cliques of similar socio-economic backgrounds outside of work. Key phrase being: outside of work. Nothing but more or less strict professionalism in the hanger. We would join hands in unity around the bird and sing it Kumbaya just to get the blessed thing to pass its FCF if we had to.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 23 at 2015 3:31 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:31:27 -0400

I have a MAJ sitting in my office right now who never met a black person until basic training. All he knew was what he saw on TV.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Mar 23 at 2015 4:01 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:01:15 -0400

I would have to agree (at least during my time in the service). It's interesting that racial and other differences seem to disappear when you're sharing challenges and dangers. The only thing that counts is whether or not you can trust the other person to have your back in a fight.

The same was true in the whaling industry in the 19th Century. Blacks not only served alongside whites (as well as others) on whaling ships. In fact, some even rose to captain whaling ships. Owners were focused on profits and rewarded those who could deliver them http://www.nps.gov/safr/learn/historyculture/africanamericanhistory.htm

BTW, I never go to Starbucks. I hate paying over-inflated prices for bad coffee. Why do your think they French roast the beans? They're covering up the fact that they're using inferior coffee. Whenever I see someone with a Starbucks cup I think of the children's story, The Emperor's New Suite of Clothes...

African American History - San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park (U.S. National Park...

Seamen on the whaling bark Wanderer make ready to cast off for another voyage. The exact location is unknown, but probably New England.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 5:30 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:30:34 -0400

I chose the first choice because it is true. By living alongside each other and actually talking with one another we learn that everyone has the same needs, feelings, etc. Perhaps as you suggest that the civilian world replicate what we do in the service.

MLK Day would be a major holiday suggesting people to see each other as people and this includes the insulated Hollywood jetset who are out of touch. Perhaps politicians who do what they do because they too get some wonderful perks. Franking and other private services.

I even made that point on talk radio, suggesting that picnics and celebrations celebrating not differences but commonalities and learning cuisine differences and other things we do, that we all like whether it is food, sports or entertainment. Talking about toxic bosses and toxic opinions.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 5:39 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:39:04 -0400

I grew up in a "lily-white" upstate New York town, MAJ Private RallyPoint Member. Seeing a minority during my upbringing was a rarity. We had no black kids in our graduating class (of 76 people in 1975). I've said elsewhere that I was a very naive kid (at 17) when I entered the Army. I learned about other races - at least the up close and personal part - via OJT in the Army.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 7:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 19:11:34 -0400

Spot on, Sir.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 24 at 2015 6:32 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 06:32:15 -0400

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member. I just wish you could have snapped a quick picture of her face at the moment of realization of your comments.

The notion that baristas at Starbucks should be engaging anyone on conversation about race is absurd. What changes race relations in America (or anywhere) is exactly the type of experience you described to her. There is no better example of young Americans of all backgrounds being tossed together and forced to work as a team and respect each other (even if they may not initially like each other).

They talk about it a lot on college campuses and in political circles in Washington DC and state capitals and high end cocktail parties. The US Military doesn't talk about it, they actually operate a working model.

You cannot force the average civillian into a similar situation. They have to voluntarily enter it and stay in it. Very few people stray far from people like them. It is natural for everyone to do so. Just look at the way we enclave in areas of towns and cities and neighborhoods across the country.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2015 6:45 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 06:45:27 -0400

Absolutely awesome!

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Mar 26 at 2015 8:25 AM

CW4 Larry Curtis — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 08:25:17 -0400

MAJ Holland, what you said to your barista was absolutely brilliant and spot-on as far as i am concerned. You are absolutely correct about basic training being an extreme cultural experience, but it most definitely goes well beyond basic training. I often brag about how so well-integrated our military is in terms of racial/cultural diversity. And in my own experience, having spent exactly half of my career in Germany, I found it most profound in the overseas setting because everywhere is like Little America in terms of the installations scattered around the country. K-Town (Kaiserslautern) being the best example of Little America where you had such a large convergence of installations such as Ramstein AFB, Sembach AFB, and Landstuhl Hospital complex, etc. There was such a huge American population concentrated in this area and we all had one very key thing in common in that we were all a very long way from home. But it goes well beyond that. We were focused on doing our jobs, working together, living together, our children going to school together, playing together, etc. And despite being commonly referred to as Little America, you never saw a more diverse and cross-cultural setting anywhere else involving so many Americans. Now I have to qualify what I've just stated with the fact that I was never assigned to that area, I am just using it as an example. But even in the less densely-populated-with-American areas, it was basically the same thing, and I can only think of a very few people I've known who did not absolutely love that setting.