The vast majority of people who deploy to a combat zone end up in no real danger during their tour -- do you agree or disagree?

2018-12-31T07:30:01-05:00

I was debating this topic with an old friend who was in the Navy -- we both deployed at various times in support of OIF. He made the argument that basically, a tiny fraction of people who deployed (Iraq/Afgh) end up in situations that are legitimately dangerous. He wasn't criticizing specific MOS's or people who don't leave the wire -- he was just arguing the point that he didn't think there was any real danger for most people over there. For example, if you are on a huge FOB and never leave, he was asking..."What's the actual danger you are in?" -- and we know there's subjectivity with this. For example, if you are on that huge FOB that's basically the size of a city, and it gets hit one time per year by 1 mortar round, does that really constitute being in danger? The issue also isn't MOS-specific, because there are plenty of combat branch people who get put on battalion/brigade staffs that never left the wire either. So I was curious to ask the RP community what everyone's thoughts on this topic are, and how you would think about that.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 7:46 AM

2018-12-31T07:46:36-05:00

Three deployments and hundreds of rocket/mortar attacks and I have never been within proximity of one. I consider myself safe haha

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 31 at 2018 7:52 AM

2018-12-31T07:52:18-05:00

There's an old adage. "The safest place you can be is surrounded by a company of fellow Marines."

The thing with deployments is you are skirting the line between levels of threat. Think about how we carry our rifles depending on whether we are expecting combat or not. The Alert (pointed to the dirt) for imminent (Severe or Critical threat levels) all the way to the traditional carry for low or moderate levels.

It's not that any single member is in danger.... but collectively our combined risk pushes up way up the charts. Kind of like buying a really crappy lottery ticket. Quantitatively, the chances of "something" going bad is just ever present. We're working with firearms, explosives, fuel, vehicles, heat (weather)... all things things just exacerbate our overall danger level.

You mentioned this discussion was between you and a Navy cohort. Ask him how safe a ship is. Just think about that for a moment. Ships are floating office buildings which we launch airplanes off of. But we train constantly on them for when things go wrong. And that's in "peace" time.

So to answer your question, I generally never felt in real danger (I come from a different era though), however there was LOTS of dangerous things happening around me.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Dec 31 at 2018 8:12 AM

2018-12-31T08:12:08-05:00

I've been to Chicago - there's dangerous tour. :/

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 10:17 AM

2018-12-31T10:17:53-05:00

Having operated on COPs for two deployments and FOBs for two others, I can say that the danger is "different." On a COP, the enemy danger is obvious and Soldiers have to deal with it on a daily basis. On a FOB, external danger is less likely, but the internal threat is significantly higher; however most personnel will get too remain oblivious to this danger, because friendly internal intelligence services are always at work ensuring servicemembers don't have to worry about getting killed in their sleep by a local or third country national they thought were their friends.

That is not at all to downplay the very clear danger and loss of life that the minority of forces face in remote combat locations. I'm just offering the difference between the perception of danger while deployed.

Response by PO1 Raymond Fochler made Dec 31 at 2018 10:32 AM

2018-12-31T10:32:26-05:00

Danger is retaliative. During my deployments there was never a real threat of enemy fire, but the threat of a mass casualty was always there from fire or flooding. Danger doesn't always come from outside the wire...

Response by MAJ Milan George made Dec 31 at 2018 10:33 AM

2018-12-31T10:33:44-05:00

I get what your buddy was saying. I think he was referring to enemy danger, not necessarily the inherent danger that comes with operating in that environment. While the majority of service members deployed to Iraq (I never made it to Afghanistan) were exposed to some level of IDF, I'd concur with your friend that a very small portion were actually in a direct combat situation. I did 3 tours in Iraq, (2xCombat Rolls, 1xStaff) and in that I only saw direct action 5 times, that's over 900 days in a combat environment with only about 10hrs of enemy action. But, my staff deployment was to Basra, and if you ever made it there you get a whole new appreciation for the CRAM's and the protection they provide!

Response by SSG Brian L. made Dec 31 at 2018 10:41 AM

2018-12-31T10:41:37-05:00

The vast majority are support in the rear so .... yeah

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 10:44 AM

2018-12-31T10:44:31-05:00

I would say it's matter boiling down to personal experience, fate and luck. When I was stationed in Iraq on Basra from 2010-2011, I was in relative safety....until the bad boys decided to lob rockets and mortars at us....A LOT. We got rocketed and mortared anywhere from once a week to twice a month. All just really depended on their schedule and where they aimed. We did have only one death of a Service Member from rocket attacks while I was there when a rocket hit his CHU...which was probably about 200 meters from mine. His time was up. Mine wasn't. So, in reality, the "being in danger" was all relative based on your particular mission and OPTEMPO.

Response by COL John McClellan made Dec 31 at 2018 10:47 AM

2018-12-31T10:47:36-05:00

I don't know about "vast majority," I think it depends on the location, and what kinds of operations are going on during a particular tour and when in the campaign it happened. But if your point is that there are many people who deploy who are not kicking down doors or conducting route clearance, or otherwise exposed regularly to direct enemy contact... then yes, that's probably true. However - any deployment has inherent risks, as does simply being in the military. And historically, most casualties are not "direct battle" wounds but rather DNBI - Disease & Non-Battle Injuries. FOBs & COBs do get attacked; and at the same time, people get hit by forklifts, or have vehicle accidents in difficult weather/environmental conditions - all manner of safety hazards. It would be interesting to see the %s on these in today's Post-911 conflicts.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Dec 31 at 2018 12:02 PM

2018-12-31T12:02:40-05:00

Personally, I factor in time of deployment as well. There was a massive difference between my 2003 deployment to Iraq and my 2006 deployment were night and day different. It also has to do with the unit you're in. In 2003, I was with the 101st Airborne Division as we took part in the initial invasion. FOBs and COBs were not even a thing. We set up camp where we needed to and each location had it's one type of danger. In 2006 I was with the 86th Signal Battalion and assigned to Tali Air Force Base. We had Burger King, Pizza Hut, showers and 3 hot meals a day. We had a few rockets launched towards us but the danger came more so from the inside. It came from the local Nationals working on base as well as bored Soldier's who would get complacent.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Dec 31 at 2018 1:26 PM

2018-12-31T13:26:58-05:00

I was on Victory base complex in Baghdad we had several mortar attacks while I was there where several US Service Members and Iraqi soldiers were injured. We also had I think about 6 rocket attacks during that time I but no casualties or injuries from those attacks. most every night you would heard automatic weapons fire but that was usually due to soccer tournaments going on and so it was almost always listed celebratory gun fire.

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made Dec 31 at 2018 5:08 PM

2018-12-31T17:08:14-05:00

In the 1st

My experience is most are not in danger.But that is subject to change.It depends on ur goals.Rear echelon units normally are safe zones it's what U do or where Ur going when U leave the protective zones.But the rear should always stay woke because Ur a huge target.To disrupt the rear is to demoralize the frontline units.So ur question is who sees combat on regular basis?Physically a few but mentally they all are at some risk.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 31 at 2018 5:26 PM

2018-12-31T17:26:21-05:00

I think it depends on the phases of the invasion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2018 7:22 PM

2018-12-31T19:22:19-05:00

I can agree with that.............I can't speak for other branches, but I figure out of all the MOS in the Army, the majority are non combat, inside the wire type of jobs. All depends on the location, they may receive IDF on the camp from time to time or not at all, but that's not the same danger an infantry, engineer, transportation personnel may face outside the wire....... But then again, it all depends on the mission the unit is tasked with. Each deployment is different.........

Response by SPC Edward Tapper made Dec 31 at 2018 10:46 PM

2018-12-31T22:46:59-05:00

Any Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who is deployed to a Combat Zone is most definitely in danger at any and all times. The fact that one is drawing hazzardous duty, emanate danger or combat pay should answer any questions on the subject.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Jan 1 at 2019 1:32 PM

2019-01-01T13:32:22-05:00

I agree, seeing as only one percent of the Army is infantry or combat arms, most of the support elements are on airfields and large FOBs. But isn't that the role? Were taught to stay in our lanes. If your job is to be a bullet sponge then your going out looking for the fight. If your in S6 on a FOB your not going to be seeing action. It's not wrong, support is vital. It's just the way the game is played. I do agree.

Response by CPT Ray Gilmore made Jan 2 at 2019 1:33 AM

2019-01-02T01:33:50-05:00

Your buddy has a point..... it takes 5-6 support & service support soldiers per patrol member.....

But, that support staff's MOS definition of fear, is far different than that of an Team Guy; who lives outside the wire......

So, who are we to judge the support staff's perception of how much danger they were in.......and this is a realization that comes with time, and the perspective of working with vets who were support, and others who were the tip of the spear.....

Some of us laughed and told jokes in the bunkers, during rocket & mortar attacks; while others, with less training, less experience and less resiliency were crying in the same bunkers.

Were any of us, in "danger"?

For the advisor teams who were out every day, we said no, because the enemy couldn't shoot for shit, and they forgot to arm the rockets. We were more nervous of a green on blue, than a lucky rocket shot.

To those support & service support soldiers, sailors and Airmen, to whom the FOB was a boat that they never left..... it was the scariest and most dangerous night of their life.

We are all different.....and our thresholds to trauma and fear, are different.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Jan 4 at 2019 12:43 PM

2019-01-04T12:43:54-05:00

Ya' well you would think that a 31E20 (Field Radio Repairman) would be a safe "non-combat" job at first blush until you realize your driving around a Truck with a dozen Antenna on it! BIG TARGET! and YES I have been shot at and took hits to the truck from a 50! So Ya'

Response by Brad Miller made Jan 14 at 2019 4:19 PM

2019-01-14T16:19:47-05:00

I remember when Clinton dragged us into the Balkans mess, and then tried to get DoD to rule that the pilots staging out of Italy didn't qualify for combat pay, because they weren't bunking under fire.
There are degrees of threat, but any time you're in an area where the locals consider whacking you to be a morally righteous/patriotically dutiful act -- yeah, you're at risk, and should get the pay, recognition, etc for it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 10:03 PM

2019-01-14T22:03:58-05:00

I lost two guys who were in "no real danger".

Response by MSG William Hesser made Jan 28 at 2019 10:49 PM

2019-01-28T22:49:56-05:00

It is well known that there is between 3 to 5 people in support for every soldier on the front line in a combat zone.
Has been that way from the beginning of fighting.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Feb 11 at 2019 12:18 AM

2019-02-11T00:18:22-05:00

Not to minimize anything people have faced, but there are always different kinds of danger. On a small boat station or a ship there is danger from the sea. If you have ever been out in a major storm, you'll recognize how very real that was. For instance Typhoon Cobra in WWII decimated Halsey's fleet, sinking three ships, severely damaged 26, and took the lives of over 700 men. How many people died in the line of duty in the cold war? How many aircrews died in routine training missions or search and rescue or other humanitarian missions? At the risk of sounding melodramatic, danger has many faces, and as service men and women, we face most of them at one time or another.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 10 at 2019 6:10 AM

2019-03-10T06:10:15-04:00

I guess I have to ask what you consider danger. My first deployment (Bosnia) I drove big trucks through narrow mountain passes. We had a guy roll a truck smaller than mine off one of these and down the mountain, killing everyone but himself. We're those mountain passes dangerous, even though I never rolled my truck?
My second deployment (Iraq) I drove "IED alley" approx 400 times (twice a day, 4 days a week for over a year), but never got hit. Was I in danger on the route?
On my next Iraq, I did a lot of one one one work with local nationals, some of whom were armed. They never used their weapons on me, but at least one of them was known to have assassinated other LNs. Was I in danger?
My next Iraq, I got a mTBI from the concussive blast of a rocket. I was definitively in danger for that one.
My last deployment (Afghanistan), the base camp I was on was overrun 10 days after I left, one US dead, multiple injured. No incidents while I was there, though. Was I in danger?

I would argue that in every single one of those deployments, I was in a dangerous situation. The fact that in only one of them did the danger manifest itself in a tangential way does not mean that it was not present.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2019 10:36 PM

2019-03-12T22:36:38-04:00

Does it really make a difference? The risk is always there and anyone who takes the oath, wears the uniform and deploys to a combat theater has my thanks and appreciation.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Mar 15 at 2019 4:17 PM

2019-03-15T16:17:36-04:00

I disagree, I think there is significant risk just being over there. I didn't have to, but went out on mission three or four times per week when I could have stayed on post. But, there were soldiers who died and never left the wire.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2019 3:37 AM

2019-03-24T03:37:36-04:00

I like to think of it this way, my chances of being smacked with a mortar is much more likely on a fob in Kuwait, Iraq, Qatar, or wherever compared to my home in South Dakota. Being deployed in itself is a danger, we are all targets. Everyone always says there is "no danger" in places like Kuwait, which is mostly true, but all it takes is one bad apple.

Response by SGT Ray Davies made Mar 24 at 2019 7:39 PM

2019-03-24T19:39:44-04:00

Really when you consider the law of averages, you're going to make it back and un-injured. That's the law of averages. If you are a combat medic, Rangers,SF, then the wonderful Mr. Murphey shows up. Now, you want a safe deployment with no glory, become a titless WAC. (Clerk typist) If you want the decorations, prognostics, and night mares join the Heroes. All of you kids Thank you for putting your ass on the line. Us old soldiers appreciate it.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Mar 24 at 2019 9:22 PM

2019-03-24T21:22:21-04:00

I have worked on music videos filmed in the hood down in NOLA. Now that was dangerous.

Response by SSG James Mielke made Apr 6 at 2019 9:24 AM

2019-04-06T09:24:28-04:00

Used to be that was the way it was, always more REMFs supporting operations than actual troops on the line, so a lot of troops never may never have even hear a shot fired
Since Vietnam and the rise of guerilla warfare it often depends on where you are deployed and what kind of operations you are involved in. Now days, even rear echelons units/bases can come under attach because our current enemy is not fighting an Army (generically speaking), they are fighting a nation and a way of life they do not agree with and are willing to do whatever it takes to change or destroy them.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Apr 9 at 2019 3:10 AM

2019-04-09T03:10:39-04:00

HIGHLY agree... my deployment I was convoy security... an MP's job. National Guard was tasked with the mission because AD MP's were tired of doing it. Most dangerous job in Iraq (so we were told) in 08-09

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Nov 6 at 2020 8:00 AM

2020-11-06T08:00:51-05:00

Having spent time on Marez/Diamondback FOBs which were only separated by a 4 lane street of Mosul Iraq. I would say that while yes its true that a large portion of soldiers see little if any time outside the perimeter there was a element of danger on a daily basis for the personnel at the gates who faced IEDs and harrassing small arms fire . In 2006-07 rockets and mortar attacks targeting living areas and fuel points were a weekly and sometimes daily event. FOB Marez was also the site of the DFAC suicide vest in 2004. In all I agree that as far as large FOBs are concerned, the danger is remote for most occupants but, its still present.