Thinking about trying to become an officer for career longevity. Do you all think I should maybe become an E5 or E6 before commissioning ?

2016-02-04T22:45:56-05:00

I'm asking because I want to make sure I have as much knowledge as possible and to be a great NCO before commissioning, that way I can see both sides of the spectrum. What enlisted rank did you all get to before commissioning ?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 10:49 PM

2016-02-04T22:49:26-05:00

I've known several enlisted to officer converts and most seem to convert at E5-E6, but I also know of a few that came from the lower ranks as well.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Feb 4 at 2016 10:55 PM

2016-02-04T22:55:36-05:00

What will be your commissioning source?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 10:55 PM

2016-02-04T22:55:39-05:00

I recommend that if a soldier is enlisted and want to commission that they try to be an NCO first. You get a grasp on some things that you wouldn't get too if you were just a SPC. I don't it should be a requirement but of course the more experience you bring to the table the better you will be. Although if you are halted in your career and are not able to make SGT in a timely manner I wouldn't wait for it. I was a SSG before I commissioned. I was enlisted for 10. I brought with me a lot of knowledge to know how things were supposed to work. I hope this helps.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Feb 4 at 2016 10:59 PM

2016-02-04T22:59:47-05:00

Honest to god truth is become an officer as soon as possible if that is your true goal. I was a PFC upon acceptance to OCS, but a SGT by the time I got a class date. With six years between promotions you'll have plenty of time to mature as an officer. Every individual is different and it is impossible to prove that a prior service e-6 is any better than an e-5. However, with that said statistically so many leave at or around 20 years it doesn't matter what you say now, but you career is limited in duration. Don't spin your wheels!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 11:07 PM

2016-02-04T23:07:32-05:00

I think it is better to be an NCO, yes.... But I would not "waste" those years making rank in the enlisted side when you could be started moving forward in your career on the officer side. Just being enlisted you already have some good good ways to relate to your troops, just link yourself up with a strong senior NCO or Officer to mentor you early on and you will do great.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Feb 5 at 2016 12:19 AM

2016-02-05T00:19:13-05:00

I'm a Mustang who had E-5 and O-1 promotion paperwork in my hands with the choice to sign one of them. I wanted the O Side as I completed my engineering degree. I've known a number of Stangs as well. It's a 2-edged sword. For as much as you learn drinking from the NCO fire hose, you'll have to unlearn about half of it. Lot of it has to do with different duties and different ways to get things done and more importantly getting others to get it done to meet the mission. If I read between the lines, you're trying to figure out the sweet spot in shifting over. My experience tells me you're pushing diminishing returns at E-5 and above. You likely are max on the O-1E opportunity at E-4. The real thing is the designator you're chasing, what the short program is for getting into it and then doing the long program of climbing the O ranks. Also consider staying around to E-6/7 can limit you to only LDO commissions when the time in service hits certain marks and you're capped at O-4/5. This is all Navy stuff but I presume there are potential similar hitches in the giddyup in the Army.

Bottom line, do you choose the Blue Pill or the Red Pill?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 4:15 AM

2016-02-05T04:15:53-05:00

You should become an officer as soon as possible and begin your development as an officer rather than continue to develop as a SGT. Think of it this way. The way you develop as an officer leader, in addition to your own job as a platoon leader, is by observing, learning and being developed and mentored by the CPTs and other senior officers you will work for. Also, who do you think will actually have more access to the 1SG to get his advice and guidance as to what makes a good officer--an LT in the company or a SGT? As an LT you will be involved in everything at the officer level, whether it's planning, training development, disciplinary matters, etc. and you will also be guided and developed by senior NCOs.

So you will learn a great deal more that will contribute to your goal of having longevity as an officer by being an LT rather than a SGT. Because to have longevity as an officer you have to make CPT, MAJ and LTC. And the truth is you need to learn how to do that from successful CPT, MAJ and LTCs. You won't learn it from SGTs and SSGs. It's not a matter of intelligence or competency, but rather it's a matter of experience at certain levels of responsibility and perspective. A year as an LT will benefit you much more than an additional year as an NCO.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 5 at 2016 6:26 AM

2016-02-05T06:26:48-05:00

One company commander I had, was a SFC before going to OCS.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 7:17 AM

2016-02-05T07:17:42-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member If you want to be a great NCO that's good, but E5 and E6 is a pay grade; Be a great Sergeant or a great Staff Sergeant if that's your goal before commissioning.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 7:21 AM

2016-02-05T07:21:36-05:00

Patton, Pershing, Bradley, Odierno, Petraeus, were never enlisted so does it really matter wether your an E5 or E6?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 8:08 AM

2016-02-05T08:08:53-05:00

specialist/E4

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 8:51 AM

2016-02-05T08:51:57-05:00

As someone who was a senior E6 with a good chance at making E7, but chose to go to OCS instead - I will say go to OCS as soon as you meet all of the requirements. Being a NCO does not make you a better leader. A leader is a exactly that, regardless of what pay grade you hold/held.

Plus, if your intent is to make the military a career, then you should be weighing the pro's/con's of life after the military with your pension. Due to my amount of time I had enlisted prior to commissioning, I will retire as a MAJ vs a LTC/COL. I will be still fairly young at 44-45, when I retire and decide to pursue a second career and I'll have ~24-25 years in. If you know the military is going to be your career, then you should maximize your retirement potential imo and serve as long as you enjoy what you do.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 5 at 2016 9:27 AM

2016-02-05T09:27:17-05:00

I'm not sure that service as an enlisted leader is an advantage or disadvantage or of no consequence. I enlisted for OCS during the Vietnam "buildup" and was commissioned after almost a year of Infantry School (BCT - AIT - OCS). Our class was a mix of enlistees like me and experienced NCOs (mostly college grad enlistees). Some of the NCOs survived the course and some didn't. Same for the enlistees. One NCO won the entire class free coffee and donuts by accepting and meeting a challenge that only an experienced transportation NCO would know (the instructor didn't know we had a "ringer" among us). To be fair, I also won the class the same prize in another challenge by placing my first round fired from a 3.5 rocket launcher through the open hatch of a blasted out APC at 200 meters. (Luck)

The difference between commissioned and noncommissioned officers is the "responsibility factor". (Well, it was in those days.) Both were/are leaders, both are responsible for mission accomplishment, but when push comes to shove, it is the commissioned officer who must accept responsibility, even for those things that are outside their immediate control. We were told that was why commissioned officers wore their rank on their shoulders and noncommissioned on their sleeves (you can carry more weight on your shoulders).

So, there's your determining factor. Are you ready/able/willing to accept responsibility?

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Feb 5 at 2016 10:32 AM

2016-02-05T10:32:25-05:00

I was an NCO, SFC when I attended OCS in 1970, paid dividends for me.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 5 at 2016 10:39 AM

2016-02-05T10:39:18-05:00

If you have all the criteria for OCS, it's weapon free and fire at will.

Response by SFC Justin Scott made Feb 5 at 2016 11:01 AM

2016-02-05T11:01:49-05:00

Many people will try and tell you "the more NCO experience..." you get the gist. The honest answer is that that is typical NCOs thinking NCOs make better officers nonsense (bear in mind I'm telling you this as an NCO). Granted, there is definitely merit to the "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" ideology for leaders, but you've done that by being enlisted in the first place. If you truly want to be a commissioned officer, then do not wait because of the ideology of others. Experience comes with time. If it were that important that you were an NCO before becoming an officer, we wouldn't have ROTC or the military academies as a means for commissioning without ever spending time as an enlisted Soldier. The time you already have as an enlisted Soldier will help you understand what it's like in your subordinates shoes when you become an officer. When people tell you that you should be an E-5 or an E-6 first, ask yourself why. Ask yourself what arbitrary thought process went into setting the rank at E-5 or E-6. Why not E-7 or E-8? Hell, why not E-9? Those are rhetorical questions for a reason. As you choose your career path (be it officer or enlisted) keep this one question in mind: what rank do I want to achieve! The longer you spend enlisted, the less time you have to achieve ranks on the officer side.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 11:49 AM

2016-02-05T11:49:07-05:00

I was a SPC when I dropped my Green to Gold packet. I was already in leadership positions, which was required to display to the board that I was a "Student-Athlete-Leader". However, one of my college classmates was promoted to SFC while in ROTC. Just pick the route that's right for you and your family (if it applies). Remember that any leader in the Army, NCO or officer, will experience long work hours, late nights, and rewarding mentor ship opportunities.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 12:55 PM

2016-02-05T12:55:23-05:00

You don't want to wait to long, but the experience you gain as an NCO will put you leaps and bounds ahead of the other LTs. I was a SSG before crossing over and my experience from being an E4 through acting PSG made it easy to be an effective PL. The only minor issue I had was stepping back from the NCO role, but I had amzing NCOs and Warrants that helped in that realm. Good luck on your decision!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 1:33 PM

2016-02-05T13:33:58-05:00

The bottom line is you go when you are ready. But the longer you wait, the more difficult it's going to be. That ticking sound you hear is important.

There's a reason officers aren't required to be NCOs before getting a commission (however I feel all Army officers should attend basic training and PLDC before getting a commission, but that's just my opinion and worth exactly that much.) I'm certain there are outstanding officers who would have been horrible NCOs and vice versa.

Response by SGT Ronald Bacon made Feb 5 at 2016 2:02 PM

2016-02-05T14:02:15-05:00

By the time you reach SPC you gained a lot of the insight of the lower enlisted, you did boot camp and have enough to connect with the enlisted side but enough of a career left to make good headway in the office ranks. You remember where you came from and use it to help make yourself a better Officer. My favorite CPT was never enlisted while my least favorite was a SSG before making the change. My Favorite 1SG was once the Company Commander (Before my time) so it works both ways. Good luck and I hope you the best.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Feb 5 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-02-05T14:06:47-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, when I started OCS, I had been in the service for approximately 2 years, 10 months, and I had been a sergeant for about 10 months. I say get started as soon as possible. I think that LTC Private RallyPoint Member' thoughts on the subject are excellent.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Feb 5 at 2016 2:25 PM

2016-02-05T14:25:59-05:00

I was E-5, but would recommend that you do not wait, because with the reduction it may become harder more so as you get close to age 31. So look into an SMP program if you are in college or apply for OCS if possible.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 3:27 PM

2016-02-05T15:27:59-05:00

I have been thinking about OCS as well. For personal goals, I want to at least make my 5 first. I want to know what it's like to lead from both enlisted and officer roles. When I get to the leadership role as an officer, I feel like the troops would respect my rank more as well. Just my personal opinion... do what you feel is best for you.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-02-05T15:44:08-05:00

The commissioned and NCO career paths are that, two separate careers. Yes, the leadership experiences as an NCO can be beneficial as an officer. However, if you have the option to commission, take it if you want it!

Officers don't spend too much time in a line unit, so a significant amount of prior-NCO experience doesn't necessarily transfer later on. If you want to be an officer, great! Strive to learn the skills earlier than later. If you want to be an NCO, great! Strive for it!

I was a SPC in the National Guard prior to contracting with ROTC and later commissioning. Of the junior officers I've worked with, the prior-enlisted officers were some of the best... and some of the worst. It's the person that matters, not their background.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 5:15 PM

2016-02-05T17:15:13-05:00

I'm not an officer, but I have seen many do what you are thinking about. Some of the very best officers I have served with put in 2 to 4 years as enlisted first.

1) First, you have options. If you are under 22 (I think) you can get an appointment to West Point. You can even go to the USMA Preparatory school for a year before, to help you get your academics up. West Point isn't an easy school.
2) You really don't increase your longevity by becoming an officer. I've outlasted many, and only those who made general have outlasted me. But I put in 38 years, and that's uncommon.
3) Don't wait. There's nothing attractive about being the oldest 2LT in the Army. No matter how good you are, every time you walk into a new situation, someone is going to wonder why someone your age is still wearing a butter bar.

Not trying to talk you out of it. Best of luck!

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 5 at 2016 5:31 PM

2016-02-05T17:31:02-05:00

The longer you serve enlisted, the less likely they wlll allow you to commission. It's a matter of potential longevity. The Army wants LT's who are capable of becoming COLs within a realistic career path.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 5:37 PM

2016-02-05T17:37:38-05:00

Sooner the better. There's a TIS cap. No one will care about your previous tank once you cross over.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 7 at 2016 12:25 AM

2016-02-07T00:25:18-05:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member You need to go for it, whenever the opportunity is presented. No need to wait for an rank.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2016 6:15 AM

2016-02-07T06:15:12-05:00

Thanks for posting this question. I was also interested in advice on this subject as well.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 12:35 PM

2016-03-18T12:35:52-04:00

You have a lot of words that you need to clarify. Stop thinking about trying ( I encourage). Choose to have it. Work for it. Be it. Live it, breath it.
I would not encourage you to do so just for Longevity. Why? Once you start you need to do your entire career- live it, breath it, seek it, never stop.
You will hopefully set education goals to earn a Dr or PhD. Your moral, values and belief's of the security of the Nation and National goals are a refined character trait.
Overcome the rank issue: It is your entire potential and Character we need! Drive on!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 9:31 PM

2016-03-24T21:31:44-04:00

I really wanted to make E5 before putting in for a commission for personal reasons but several officers I studied with said it would be better to get a commission as soon as possible, plus with the downsizing in the Navy I was looking at years of 0 promotions in my rate. All I accomplished was two more years as an E4, not worth it.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Dec 10 at 2019 7:44 PM

2019-12-10T19:44:30-05:00

Not a bad idea. Some officers cannot with ncos and thus an invisible wall.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 23 at 2020 4:12 PM

2020-02-23T16:12:17-05:00

Do you have a 4 year degree?

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Feb 24 at 2020 8:14 AM

2020-02-24T08:14:53-05:00

Making EW-5 might help, but that also depends on your branch once you're commissioned. For Combat arms, that helps. With CSS branches, probably not. A lot also depends on your education. If you have at least an associates degree, or better yet a BS, take the plunge now. If not, get some college behind you become an NCO before getting commissioned.