"Time in grade" or "best soldier for the job"?

2014-03-01T01:12:05-05:00

Situation: You are a Company/Battery First Sergeant. One of your platoons has 5 Staff Sergeants. None of these staff sergeants are duds. Each of them will get the mission accomplished, though some may do so more quickly/efficiently than the others. If one of these staff sergeants (SSG Highspeed) stands out above the others would you have any qualms about placing that soldier in the platoon sergeant position (Your CSM will support your decision). SSG Highspeed has less time in grade than the other SSGs in the platoon.

Do you feel that duty positions should always go to the most capable?

What other factors should be taken into consideration when making this decision?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 1:41 AM

2014-03-01T01:41:20-05:00

SSG Love,

For me it is always the most Competent Soldier.

V/r

1SG Haro

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 2:12 AM

2014-03-01T02:12:53-05:00

As a leader of Soldiers and as a subordinate, I believe that the most competent Soldiers or NCOs should be afforded the opportunity first.

As a young NCO and your Soldier is up for promotion with a waiver as well as another Soldier who isn't as squared away wouldn't you want your Soldier to get the waiver?

I see this a lot from my perspective, it seems like the Army in general is more about who you know and how people feel about you rather than if you're the best man for the job!

In order for us to have a better Army, military, and leadership always promote the most competent first!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 6:39 AM

2014-03-01T06:39:42-05:00

SSG Love,

I would like to think that SSG Highspeed would be put in charge. Here is the issue that gets faced every time. How do you handle the NCOER. SSG Highspeed can not by regulation rate the other SSG. It is so hard to be someone's platoon sergeant but not be their rater. That means they can do a piss poor job, they can undermine your authority and they can just plain run wild. You could put it on paper and you could "suggest" to the rater that it gets put on their NCOER. But if it does not then they just spent a year terrorizing with no consequences.

I do think that the best Soldier and leader should be in charge not just the guy who has been in the grade the longest. Obviously a 20 year SSG may not be the best leader is you have an 8 year SSG around. There is a reason he is not a 20 year SFC or MSG. That's all I have to say.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 7:08 AM

2014-03-01T07:08:15-05:00

SSG Love, you sneaky joker I see what you did there! Joking aside: SSG Highspeed should get the vote, but you know as well as I do that is not going to happen most of the time. My last platoon SGT always picked me to "Handle things" in his absence, over two other Staffs that had way more time in.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 8:01 AM

2014-03-01T08:01:37-05:00

SSG Love,

I had this situation happen in my last unit. I had more time in service and experience, the other E-5 had a little more time in grade, he worked for me, I wrote his couneslings and his awards but when it came down to his NCOER, the Platoon SGT had me write everything, and he reviewed it put his piece in and submitted it as his rater.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2014 9:24 AM

2014-03-01T09:24:56-05:00

This is when it starts to become a little "sticky" so to speak. Once you start talking about platoon seargents and above as a duty position you deffinitly want the cream of the crop. As you stated none of them are "duds" but you would have to look at proformance. SFC and above become very competitive all the way aroeund and that are what boards are for 'even thought sometimes the whole picture is not viewed".

If the CSM would support this dission I would follow thier lead. They are there for a reason "they rose to the top".

Just my two cents but a very good question that will always be pondered.

Response by SFC Bradley Clark made Mar 1 at 2014 9:39 AM

2014-03-01T09:39:15-05:00

Bottom line, you have the power to put in place whoever you so chose to, within your company. Only one thing you must be very careful of the good ole boy system. Stay away from that. Always put the best soldier for the job be it male or female.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 12:04 PM

2014-03-19T12:04:57-04:00

As a fellow SSG, I have to say that I believe this decision needs to be looked into deeply before a decision like that is made within the ranks. The Idea that you are better than your peers or seniors is your opinion. We all feel that we could do better if given the chance, but sometimes leadership is able to see qualities in their leaders that they themselves do not see. You may have memorized every word out of a manual or regulation, but knowledge does not mean that one can lead. Real life experience plays a vital role in positions such as PSG and in fact I would not want an individual as young as myself taking a PSG position if I was not "FULLY" qualified (experience and knowledge). The best advice that I can offer is for you to step up to the plate and prove that you are the best candidate and to inquire about why you are a subordinate of an individual that you are better than. I have done it myself a time or two. Just remember that saying that you are better doesn't make you better, you need to prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 19 at 2014 12:18 PM

2014-03-19T12:18:37-04:00

What I dont agree with is how we say "yes the most capable Soldier should get the position" unless we are talking about a different rank.

In your same scenario; if a dud SFC comes in, he automatically replaces the highspeed SSG just because of his rank. Period. The explanation, that's how the Army works.

That is a broken system by our own rational and logic. Because we say rank trumps logic and reason. Say it aint so, but I bet you it is.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 28 at 2014 3:20 PM

2014-03-28T15:20:03-04:00

I have always believed that the promotion should go to the person who is the best soldier for the job. This to me also applies in the civilian sector as well. You want someone who can get the job done properly and with the least amount of difficulty and on time.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2014 11:05 AM

2014-04-30T11:05:09-04:00

A rater is normally senior in grade or date of rank (AR 623-3 para 2-5 a) but does not have to be, he does have to be the rated soldiers immediate supervisor so you can't have a SSG A be in charge of SSG B and not be rater. A Senior Rater however must be senior to the rater( AR623-3 para b (1) and must be the raters immediate supervisor . As long as that issue does not come up place the best person for the job in the slot.

So Back to the given example any of the SSG could be chosen as platoon SGT, but only if none of the other SSG were rating other NCO's. So for a Platoon SGT position the best practice would be to select the SSG with the most TIG or to move the SSG which have more TIG out from underneath him.

So you cannot have a SSG with 2 years TIG be the senior rater of a SGT whose Rater is a SSG with 3 years TIG. And you can't have some one who is not the raters immediate supervisor be the Senior Rater either. This limits you to placing the senior SSG in the position.

I hope my examples were clear.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 2:57 PM

2014-06-18T14:57:28-04:00

The Navy just instituted a revision to it's policy for selecting advancment-in-rank, significantly reducing the affect Time In Service has on selection. Therefore, I would take a cue from our senior personnel leadership and contend that TIS should not be the primary determining factor for leadership positions.

On another note, many junior personnel are deliniated by age, as if age equals leadership ability. Similarly, it shouldn't be THE determining factor.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 24 at 2014 12:19 PM

2014-06-24T12:19:32-04:00

I will answer the question this way: I frocked a MSG as 1SG with about 8 HOURS time in grade over four MSGs with years of TIG. The unit's performance improved immediately, I felt it was the right decision, and I would do the same again in a heartbeat.

Performance trumps "it's my turn" every time.

In fact, the only reason he wasn't already the 1SG at that point was because I didn't want an SFC "acting" over the other MSGs.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 8 at 2014 11:22 AM

2014-07-08T11:22:13-04:00

All other considerations being equal, I would go with the senior person first. However, if there is a marked disparity in abilitiy, the person who is most capable will get the first nod.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 5:28 PM

2014-12-03T17:28:58-05:00

You would have to take into consideration the duration the SSG Highspeed will be in the position. If it is to fill in while the PSG is on leave or something then sure, but you would have to consider that after 90 days the NCO will have to rate the other Staff Sergeants, requiring it the position to go to the NCO with the oldest date of rank.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2014 12:26 AM

2014-12-04T00:26:08-05:00

"If one of these staff sergeants (SSG Highspeed) stands out above the others would you have any qualms about placing that soldier in the platoon sergeant position".
Totally not in a position to answer this question, but I look at it from the Chain's POV and the soldier's:
You want to place the least competent soldier, of the five, in charge, or the best? I'd trust the judgment of the most proficient, personally. Soldier could have fifteen years in service, but if he's a dumb-ass....well, poor Snowflake.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-04-02T15:16:29-04:00

As a SSG i was in a very simmilar situation, there were 2 of us SSG in the section when our Chief PCSd, the other SSG did out rank me by time in grade, I was given the section over him. I had no problems with him and did rate him. We were and are still friends.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-04-09T08:55:29-04:00

I have seen and been in situations where this type of thing has happened. I can see a younger (time in grade not age) SSG pushing himself and showing that desire to perform at a high level. I have also seen those senior SSG's who are content or upset that they have not been promoted and have done everything else the Army has asked them to do and more. They still perform but don't show that fire you might see in other SSG's.

In this case I think one way to show you have a SSG with the potential and abilty to perform in a SFC position is to let him due the job. This will help him seperate and stand out among his peers. Which can help him when he get's looked at by the board again.

At the end of the day you want the best NCO running that platoon but also have the ability to continue the development of the senior SSG's.

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Apr 24 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-04-24T10:09:25-04:00

Combat knows no favoritism.

Best man for the job. Period.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2023 1:38 PM

2023-06-23T13:38:58-04:00

If they are good enough to hold the position then yes, TIG to me should be waiverable