To Shave or Not to Shave? That is the question.

2015-03-25T13:15:59-04:00

In modern times, many police and military forces prohibit beards for one important reason that came up during World War I. In order to get a clean seal on a gas mask, you must have a clean face, so soldiers made sure to shave. They may or may not have been worried about the pulling of beards during hand-to-hand combat, as Alexander the Great was.

Excluding limited exemptions for religious accommodation, the United States Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps have policies that prohibit beards on the basis of hygiene, the necessity of a good seal for chemical weapon protective masks, and the official position that uniform personal appearance and grooming contribute to discipline and a sense of camaraderie.

All branches of the U.S. Military currently prohibit beards for a vast majority of recruits, although some mustaches are still allowed, based on policies that were initiated during the period of World War I.

So, the discussion is, Should military branches change the policy on shaving due to a legacy concern of chemical/biological warfare from WWI?

IMO, Proper grooming standards should be considered. If a service member wants to grow facial hair while not in a deployed location where the threat of a chemical/biological attack could occur (this is hardly in any theater of operations anymore due to many regulations implemented internationally to destroy & manage chemical/biological weapons), they should be allowed to, but in consideration of grooming standards (i.e. length of facial hair, must represent professional appearance, etc.)

Photo: U.S. Army Captain Tejdeep Singh Rattan, 2010

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 25 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-03-25T13:30:52-04:00

To change this policy would being allowing it to run wild. Too many would try to push the limit to it's extreme, if not beyond. Way too many styles, sizes, and shapes. We would have to deal with those who look neat and trimed to the "can't grow a decent beard and look like the just climbed out of the gutter. Leave it alone!!!!!!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 2:29 PM

2015-03-25T14:29:06-04:00

I would love to see this policy changed. I see people all the time with beards in uniforms for one reason or another. If the reason we can't have beards is in order to get a good seal on the gas mask, then are we telling the people with sensitive skin who get no-shave chits or the people that have religious accommodations that they are expendable? I've heard others bring up the argument, "Well some people can't grow a beard or it comes in patchy and wouldn't look good," or, "People would push the limits and not follow the grooming standards." Have you seen some of the cheesy mustaches that people wear in the military? And as far as pushing the standards, that's one of the jobs for small unit leaders, to ensure that their subordinates maintain the standards. They already do it with current hair and mustache standards so why do we assume that grooming standards for beards would not be enforced in the same way?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-03-25T14:40:25-04:00

My answer is going to very unpopular. I say change the standard but not in the way people think. I say aside from our Speciel Operation units that sometimes must grow a beard no one should have one. No exeptions for religion, no exeptions for razor burn. No exemptions. The only reason i saw Spec Ops is because i see it as a part of the uniform depending on the mission. They dont where big grizzley beards all the time. Only in the parts of the world that not looking like a Soldier is advantage to them. It is a uniform item to them not a fasion statement.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 25 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-03-25T15:01:49-04:00

This is a tough one. My major issue is Uniformity.

I currently wear what can be loosely called a "beard." It is neatly trimmed, short, and lined to compliment my face. It is just above "peach fuzz" stage in length, because any more than that bothers the heck out of me. This length would annoy the hell out of a 1stSgt even though it is "Neat & Clean" in appearance, as it's about a 10~ days growth.

Could I grow a longer one? Sure can. Do I? Nope.

Now imagine 1 million service members with varying lengths of facial hair, then we decide on "approved styles" from handle bars to van dykes yo chin straps... because we must have a policy for everything. Or we can have a mustache policy and a clean shaved policy, and a very narrow exception for Sikhs/Religious.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Mar 25 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-03-25T15:08:30-04:00

I feel that the current regulation/standard is no longer valid, especially in a CONUS/OCONUS environment. I will reserve judgement on the deployed settings.... couple things I have noticed:
1. In generalized war situations with USA involvement, Chem weapons have not been used since WW1.
2. The number of people that are in compliance for one reason or another makes the point almost moot (shaving profiles, "special forces", religious, etc).
3. Militaries of many allied countries allow facial hair. When I was deployed to Afghanistan, I worked with different nation's soldiers.... One Brit had a beard almost Duck Dynasty worthy (field grade officer), a number of German, Croatian, and other countries also allowed beards in the Deployed setting.

I think that a well developed set of guidance to ensure grooming standards would be ok as long as it is across the board. Maybe beard length limited to xx inch length (1 inch? 2 inch?), cannot present unkempt appearance, Must be shaved in high risk environments.... I see nothing wrong with the facial hair. I wear a mustache as an officer, think it goes back to me being an enlisted member and I refuse to shave it off...but I would like to have a well groomed goatee (full beard on me does not work).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 4:45 PM

2015-03-25T16:45:30-04:00

If I don't shave I lose my cherub like demeanor...

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 25 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-03-25T17:40:46-04:00

I'd like to see all being allowed to have a beard, at homestation it would have to be neatly kept and allowed to be grown out in preparation for deployment. Many cultures embrace the beard and place value on the "seasoned look"....might be a couple members on here that are a little seasoned as well.

I was told I looked a little seasoned myself coming home on R&R.....

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-03-25T18:33:49-04:00

I've been in the military 35 years and counting and I really hate shaving but it's the regulation so I shave. Then so should everyone else in the military unless a medical profile is valid. (Period)
This may sound strange but we (the military) defend democracy but the military is not a democracy. I'm curious as to what you (Weiss) think of that statement.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made Mar 25 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-03-25T18:53:03-04:00

The military should not change for the people.
The people need to change to become part of the military as we all have.
It's not tradition it's reverse discrimination.
If you want in here are you list of requirements. Get in line or walk away.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Mar 25 at 2015 7:04 PM

2015-03-25T19:04:01-04:00

My heart goes out to the leaders of our country. They are having to make decisions every day that keep us safe as American citizens. These days, if you don't bow to the political pressures of all these wanna-be agenda setting organizations, you stand to lose millions in lawsuits to accomodate the individuals when that money could go towards the social programs and military defense that benefit the vast MAJORITY of Americans. Pray for our leaders. They need all the help they can get.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Mar 25 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-03-25T19:22:52-04:00

I think if we spent less time worrying about facial hair and more time getting our weapons out of the armory and teaching Soldiers to Soldier, then it would have a tremendous impact on our warfighting ability.

Beards only bother many Soldiers because they're taught to hate them during training. This is dumb as crap. If maintaining a disciplined approach to your day to day activities by doing repetitive yet easily inspected work were really important, than we would still be shining boots. We would have nice neat creases in our combat uniforms. The shaving standard is the last bastion of a culture that uses repetitive activity as a way of discerning discipline and consistency.

I'll meet you in the middle. You let me grow a beard, and I'll gladly starch my uniform and get out the black boots. They'll shine extra bright so I can see my beard in them.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 25 at 2015 7:25 PM

2015-03-25T19:25:26-04:00

I have been on a shaving waiver my entire career.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 25 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-03-25T19:29:39-04:00

The mask sealing argument is apparently bunk. The Captain in the image you posted has stated:

"I was told there were two challenges to allow Sikhs in the military. The first was that we could not put the Kevlar helmet on our heads, which I do every day," the captain said. "The second thing was fitting the gas mask properly."

My uncle, who was in the Indian Army, said he had no problem with that while was engaged in jungle warfare. He said he put some Vaseline in his beard, which kept the ticks away, and it sealed every single time."

Source: http://www.army.mil/article/36339/sikh-soldiers-allowed-to-serve-retain-their-articles-of-faith

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 8:53 PM

2015-03-25T20:53:08-04:00

Well, when his pro mask doesn't seal and he's sucking up nerve agent he'll wish he had shaved.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Mar 25 at 2015 8:59 PM

2015-03-25T20:59:02-04:00

I think that it is PC Crap that I can't speak, hang, or put anything out that is with my religion but we can bend to theirs. It is Army regulation CLEAN SHAVEN. they should be NO different! Don't like it, Don't join!

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 25 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-03-25T21:01:46-04:00

I havent shaved in 3 months. No one has noticed.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-03-25T21:09:22-04:00

I agree, allow the beards. It looks better than the majority of "mustaches" being grown, especially this month! Haha! But really, allow it. I also think females should be allowed to wear pony-tails, but I digress.

I feel strongly that a beard should be trimmed, maintained, and professional as possible, but otherwise, why not? But it's an all or none. No goatees, or patches, no chops, etc. It's a full maintained beard, mustache, or clean shaven face.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 25 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-03-25T21:21:22-04:00

Are you crazy? Don't you remember that time a bunch of people died because they couldn't seal their mask properly? Thank God we only grow hair on the bottom of our heads and not the top or the sides.

Response by CPL Jesse Vasconcelos made Mar 25 at 2015 9:26 PM

2015-03-25T21:26:53-04:00

I understand religous belief but we join knowing the standards of our armed forces. We need to remain the greatest military in the world and hold our grounds with our standards and keep them the way they are. Their allegiance is to the flag and should be willing to shave for it. If not the military might not be for you

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Mar 25 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-03-25T21:45:10-04:00

Not only should he shave, he should take that ridiculous towel off his head. Do you see any Jews wearing their yarmulke? God, when is this shit going to stop? Next they'll be wearing robes and sandals .

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Mar 25 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-03-25T22:01:47-04:00

Clean shaven. If you are Muslim and want to keep your beard.....sorry, you can't join the military and keep it. End of story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 10:54 PM

2015-03-25T22:54:58-04:00

I say change or modify the standard (how are "change" and "modify" two separate options on this poll?).

For normal operations, I see no reason why soldiers cannot be allowed to have well-groomed facial hair. When handled properly, it can look professional. The military managed it for longer than it has prohibited facial hair.

So what about achieving a proper seal on the mask? Well that's easy. If you are in an environment where a potential CBRN threat requires you to carry a mask, the commander can issue an order requiring everyone to shave. No different than carrying your weapon in some environments but not others or being able to drink most of the time but not in a combat zone.

Anytime you aren't carrying your mask, well if you don't have it on you then you obviously aren't donning it quickly anyway.

Besides, I've already seen soldiers with facial hair outside the standards but they were females so no one wanted to correct them.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 25 at 2015 11:34 PM

2015-03-25T23:34:09-04:00

Not only no, but hell no... If you want to be a Soldier, then be meet the standard... I agree with some, you can make exceptions for Special Operations, but that is all, in my primitive view.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 11:54 PM

2015-03-25T23:54:39-04:00

Beards . . . I don't know, or more accurately I don't have enough at stake in the issue to offer a full opinion, I don't grow a good looking beard anyway. I would like to see the mustache regs loosedned up a bit though, the whole "corner of the mouth" width limit is a bit ridiculous and is nearly impossible to make to look good.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-03-26T00:08:22-04:00

A clean shaven face is a relatively new standard in the military. Only a few decades ago the Navy allowed some personnel to have beards. Prior WW1 beards were common in the military. For all the Army’s use of the word warrior why not look like one? We get so caught up in looking pretty today that we forget the purpose of our military. We’re to win our countries battles doing an unpleasant, dirty, violent job. Not walk down a runway showing off our pretty uniforms and clean faces. You can be spit shined and starched and still be an unprofessional shitbag. I think in the picture I posted the soldier on the right has more of a warrior image and would instill more fear in the enemy than the soldier on the left.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 12:18 AM

2015-03-26T00:18:42-04:00

I actually like his beard

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Mar 26 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-03-26T10:31:36-04:00

They call them standards for a reason, they should Apply to All Equally, no exception. There should not be any allowance for a departure from standards, if you cant meet the standard in an ALL VOLUNTEER FORCE, don't join.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-03-26T10:59:58-04:00

A standard is a standard for a reason. If it is changed to accommodate every persons individual needs, there is not going to be a standard. If the standard is bent for one reason, it will have to be bent for others.

Whether for religion or whatever reason, the fact of the matter is the standard exists for a reason. To bend and break here is to make a horribly unstable situation out of one that is easily maintained as is.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-03-26T12:10:47-04:00

The US Military should change the regulations to allow for facial hair. Not only is it un-hygienic to shave in the field, but no one is intimidated by a bunch of young looking man-children with guns. We look like an army of Children. Throw a beard on any man and instantly he looks rough, and more intimidating. If you think that there aren't any psychological warfare advantages to looking fierce then you might want to read about the Roman Legions.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-03-26T14:12:38-04:00

We all know that with natural progression in life things are going to change. We are trained from day one that we need to conduct ourselves with a professional demeanor. Having said that, I understand that there will be a difference of opinion. In regards to the current regulations on grooming and appearance as everyone knows we can only grow a mustache. I am on the side that says to embrace the change that the future is bringing, but in changing the grooming standard let us alter it for more than just the facial hair. Yes granted if you are to grow a beard you should be made to maintain a certain length I will agree, but part of the current threat is that they are targeting military members. As we all know what is the easiest way to determine if a male is serving. A high and tight. But as a side note, having scrolled through this page understanding that we have a freedom of speech that we all will defend to the death, maintaining a professional demeanor is kind of hard when you are openly intolerant of other peoples preferences. The last time I checked your religious preferences did not change the color of your uniform. The basis of our country was founded upon freedom and liberty for ALL. The fact that a fellow service member is wearing a head dress does not prevent him from standing side by side with you and covering your six...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-03-26T17:51:11-04:00

I haven't shaved in 35 years, granted twelve of those I was under twelve, but I have to say at a minimum please change the mustache standards

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:49 PM

2015-03-26T19:49:29-04:00

Make facial hair standard the same as the head hair standard. Keep it trimmed, keep it professional!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 8:05 PM

2015-03-26T20:05:34-04:00

So why shouldn't the female standing in front of CPT Rattan have to adhere to the "one standard for all" mantra when it comes to hair standards? I would not mind growing my hair out a little longer than the current standard.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-03-26T21:15:06-04:00

Here's my issue with this whole thing. When the powers that be decided to allow one particular group to grow beards and wear turbans, that panel inadvertently discriminated against EVERYONE else. Are they going to allow a Catholic Chaplain who received Cardinals status wear one of those really tall, jewel-studded Cardinal hats? No? Why not? It's part of their religious culture. As I expected, now Active Duty service members who practice Muslim are crying "foul" because they, too, want to grow their beards for religious reasons and rightfully so!!! No matter what the DoD decides regarding growth of facial hair, it NEEDS to be the same across the board. PERIOD. Either let EVERYONE grow a beard, or let NOBODY grow a beard. Plain and simple. I don't care one way or the other as long as they can do their job(s) and do it well.

Response by SGT Patrick Soule made Mar 26 at 2015 9:18 PM

2015-03-26T21:18:19-04:00

A clean shaven Service Member is a professional looking Service Member. Yes, there should be operational exceptions (Tier 1 Operators on ops for example).

If you do allow for one to be unshaven in non-combat locations, what is to say that the needs of the service will give you time to shave if they suddenly need you in a combat region and gas is a possibility?

If we make exceptions for this reason, what is to say we will not have to make exceptions for something else. It is not like it was a secret that the military requires you to shave. Now your shocked that they want you to shave? Sure, someone who has a religion that requires beards may have something to offer our Country, but there are plenty who have religions that do not require beards that are available to fill that slot as well. Am I narrow minded, maybe, but I do not think we should make the exception unless it is an operational requirement.

Response by SSgt Zachary Hunter made Mar 26 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-03-26T21:48:51-04:00

Allow beards, goatees, FULL moustaches... Nobody looks good wearing a molestache. Keep them trimmed, tight and squared off. No designs or flared sideburns.

And about the religion issue...Service before religion. Pretty sure we all agreed to put our religion AFTER the branch we joined.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 26 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-03-26T22:04:36-04:00

Its an interesting standard historically.. Gen Longstreet didnt shave, Stonewall Jackson didnt shave, R E Lee didnt shave... Col Chamberlin didn't shave.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-03-26T23:05:40-04:00

Every other country thought of issuing petrol jelly to help form a seal around a beard. I think that facial hair should be allowed, as long as it is neat clean and professional. NCO's enforce standards within the military. This should be one that we can handle as well.
Of course if we are deploying to an area with threat of Chem warfare, then it should be addressed in the spins.
And by the way, happy mustache march.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:00 AM

2015-03-27T00:00:25-04:00

I think it's time we start changing some of our archaic rules and get modern. That said - I also don't think we should have religious exemptions for anything. If the rule is in place - everyone follows the rule. If a standard is set, it is set for all. Playing the "my faith requires me" card should be a automatic "tough shit" card. If your faith requires it, then you shouldn't have joined an organization that forbids it. Plenty of other jobs out there for ya.

*MY* religion requires that I eat big, fat, juicy double cheeseburgers loaded with bacon every day. I don't see me getting any exemptions for weight standards.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:09 AM

2015-03-27T00:09:31-04:00

I'm stationed in Korea (again... why do they keep sending me here???) and the need for NBC training and the whole face seal is a legitimate issue here. Family members and babies are issued protective masks because one of the greatest risks are nK's rocket and artillery assets that all have the capability of using bio and chem warheads just as the USSR had when these policies were implemented. Despite this risk do we see a greater focus on CBRN? Nope, because everyone thinks that th eage of needing CBRN defense are over.

For the religious waivers, I personally don't agree with them or the argument that a Sikh (or anyone else with a beard) would have the time to apply Vaseline to his beard and don his mask before they are affected by whatever set off the CBRN alarms.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 4:26 AM

2015-03-27T04:26:41-04:00

I know many would like to change it to have a beard, but I personally would think this would effect readiness to deploy immediately yes it would be great to have a beard but I would rather be ready when things start hitting the fan so to speak, than to worry if my seal would work or not. "Practice as if it was real"

Response by MSG David Chappell made Mar 27 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-03-27T09:27:14-04:00

If you wish to enlist conform to our rules and traditions. If your beard is that important we don't need you. One standard one fight

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 9:16 PM

2015-03-27T21:16:31-04:00

For me it comes down to this: Train as you fight. If fighting in CBRNE conditions is part of our mission (which it is) then we need to train to that standard. Having two standards in anything has yet to work out well.

With that being said, if the current rationale regarding the sealing of pro-masks is demonstrably false then I see no reason not to reexamine the standard.

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Mar 28 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-03-28T15:44:52-04:00

Being in the military is a voluntary job since the draft ended on January 27, 1973. If you don't like the grooming standards that are already in place, don't enlist; that simple.

But I will say that if the standards are changed, then Duck Dynasty beards should be UA. I love the Robertson's, but really.....

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 9:59 AM

2015-03-30T09:59:10-04:00

Historically speaking; Robert E. Lee, Thomas Jonathan Jackson, John S. Mosby, George S. Custer, Ulysses Grant, William Tecumseh Sherman all wore facial hair as did many of their subordinates. Just a few of Americas greatest military minds. Also, with the advent of modern extremism and the idea of profiling individual soldiers as a target for terrorist like plots why would we want to expose who we are by haircut and facial grooming. We are fairly easy to pick out by the way we walk alone. I think it goes along with the concealed carry theory. The bad guy doesn't know who you are or if you will act if they can't identify you as a possible threat. Just food for thought...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-03-30T11:03:35-04:00

Unfortunately everyone has made some good points, however if we start changing our standards to help baby these Soldiers, then I believe they should start handing out pacifiers and diapers to everyone at CIF. Those with sensitive skin should know how to take care of it. (Go to walmart they sell item there) The standard is NO BEARDS. Dont like it.. retire, or get out, Walmart needs people like you. At least there you can have a beard.
Focus on Soldiers welfare and training, that is more important than a beard issue.

Response by CW3 John Wescott made Mar 30 at 2015 11:52 AM

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Standards are Standards

Response by SP5 Bill Santora made Apr 2 at 2015 6:06 AM

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If you want to have a beard and turban. DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY MORON.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-04-02T17:56:57-04:00

I have no problem shaving. I don't like to do it, but I do because it's required of me. I do not, and will not (unless deployed or on duty) shave on weekends. I also limit my on post activities and decrease the frequency of my on-the-spot corrections because I know I don't look as professional as I should. When I shave seven days a week, I get such substantial razor burn that I always end up on a shaving profile. Those two days provide enough of a break that my face can recover and I remain a professional during the duty week.

I would love to see the standard changed to allow for professional facial hair, basically aligned with what is authorized by a shaving profile (1/8" should be good, but no more than 1/4"). I do think it will be difficult to specify exactly what is faddish, so facial hair would have to be limited to specifically defined shapes.

Allowing facial hair would foster increased rapport with some of the cultures we deal with, it would also increase our OPSEC by decreasing how much a Soldier stands out in a crowd.

Response by Sgt Thomas Heisler made Apr 2 at 2015 7:50 PM

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Everyone regardless should shave and where standard uniforms.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 7:45 PM

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Stop changing everything. I raised my right hand to follow and join the us army. Not to give a shit what people think we should do. Dont like it get the hell out

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 9:26 PM

2015-04-04T21:26:25-04:00

I like the standard. We could argue that all appearance standards are arbitrary. Throw out AR 670-1, who needs standards? It's about uniformity, and I am all for that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2015 10:00 PM

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As a medical professional, I believe there should be a relaxing of the standard which allows beards for off duty personnel, and even maybe for garrison/cantonment. Shaving repeatedly is bad for the skin and can lead to serious health and hygiene issues. I have seen/treated several troops over the years that don't qualify as "sensitive skin" but still developed serious bacterial infections due to the process shaving has on the skin. It tugs and shoves hair into the follicle with dirt and bacteria and often destroys the epidermis microscopic causing an opening for infection. A troop then is required to to be treated and removed from the fighting force. Also, Leave/Pass/Off duty time is time for the SM to recuperate and generate morale away from the day to day upkeep of military standard. Why does the off duty SM have to be clean shaven? How are they supposed to relax worrying about Uniform Standard? Worry about that on duty time.

Response by SSgt Rose Ferguson made Apr 4 at 2015 10:42 PM

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Besides shaving wavers, which also have exceptions and standards. Shave that crap and look professional. If not, who to say and prove religious beliefs. I'm purely not, but I could claim a Muslim religious background or change my religion to Muslim on file. If so, can I wear Headwear while in uniform. I'm a female and that's religious rituals or "my right" even if the head covering hide my face. Where do we draw the line. I would draw it very short with minimum variations to our military dress and appearance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:24 AM

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The standard should be kept across the board. No exceptions!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 1:10 AM

2015-04-05T01:10:11-04:00

This a good thread.
Few actually know thd reason we shave. Just a note the modern mask does seal with a light beard.

Good thread Capt Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SGT Michael Wilson made Apr 5 at 2015 1:13 AM

2015-04-05T01:13:52-04:00

Speaking as someone who suffers from pseudofollicolitus and carries a permanent no shaving profile that allows me to keep up to 1/4 in. of my facial hair at all times, I do believe the regulation is way outdated and modernly irrelevant. Not to mention it's easier than ever before to maintain a clean professional appearance with all the advances in make grooming and hygiene since WWII.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 1:27 AM

2015-04-05T01:27:34-04:00

We should be growing out facial hair, it makes us look more intimidating and fits in line with how we should be perceived; if we keep trying to be something that we're not then we affect both the personality of our service and what the expectations others have of us. We're not people in suits going to a job, we're war fighters that need to have the image of a proper warrior.

Response by SGT Ramiro Durazo made Apr 5 at 2015 7:40 AM

2015-04-05T07:40:06-04:00

Shave

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Apr 5 at 2015 11:49 AM

2015-04-05T11:49:54-04:00

I'm sorry. I say no. As you can see I like facial hair. The day I retired I stopped shaving. But while you are serving I believe that the currant standards are fare. It is easier to keep clean and groom while in the field or in combat. Yes NBC is not much of a threat today. It is true you must have a clean face to get a proper seal with our masks. Back in 2005 while in Iraq, we had a message that some chemical weapons were found. So the order was given to carry masks. What do we do then, use for an hour so the Marines can all go use our limited water to shave beards off? Yes I know other nations have more facial hair. Most of that is because of religious beliefs. That is another topic.

Response by SGT Chris Ellis made Apr 5 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-04-05T15:08:45-04:00

Regs are regs and I feel that everyone should have to follow them no matter what I had to shave even though I would break out. I also feel that if you alow it to be changed people will push the limits.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-04-05T15:19:41-04:00

I think beards and goatees should be allowed. A well trimmed beard still allows for a good seal as well as the member still looks professional.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 9:58 PM

2015-04-05T21:58:54-04:00

I say in garrison every must be clean shaven, regardless of religious affiliation, how sensitive your skin is, or what ever your excuse is. However, when you're in combat, a beard is the mark of a warrior and should be allowed by any military member that is deployed

Response by PO3 Ray Ebert made Apr 6 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-04-06T12:16:23-04:00

I am old school and think the standard should stay the same but to me it's really not a big deal

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-04-06T14:41:21-04:00

Sounds like more of an excuse to do one less thing in the morning, citing the last generation didn't have to do it is what children do. And as for allowing the hat and beard to slide because of religious preference. Well you decided to join the military the military didn't join you so stop with the bellyaching and suck it up.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 6 at 2015 4:36 PM

2015-04-06T16:36:08-04:00

Just because poison gas hasn't been in vogue in our living memories doesn't mean tomorrow's troops won't be getting it. Foreign powers play by their own rules. That being said, I've never confirmed or denied the inability to seal a mask with a beard, and some say that the seal's work just fine, even with a beard. Also- I think too many people focus on looking pretty through regulations like these. They can look presentable like this sure- but they can still be a dirtbag regardless. I've never heard of any enemy we have fought in recent times, Islamic fighters or even the VC, that were at all intimidated by a clean-shaven or bearded face.

Response by SSgt Donald Poolaw made Apr 6 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-04-06T18:17:25-04:00

Shave your stateside and the armed forces is not a democracy

Response by PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole made Apr 6 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-04-06T23:38:01-04:00

CBR!!! Everyone shaves!!! It's for your own damn good!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 2:07 AM

2015-04-07T02:07:01-04:00

I would trade my ability to reproduce for a chance to grow back my magnificent beard. Nothing says manly like long beautiful flowing locks growing out of my jaw line.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Apr 7 at 2015 5:40 AM

2015-04-07T05:40:29-04:00

In the military we're supposed to be equal (by rank anyway) yet some people are allowed to grow beards for religious reasons.

I say either make them shave or let everyone grow a beard. If and when they ever have to wear a gas mask or SCBA for firefighting purposes, shave then (if time permits).

Same goes for guys who have no-shave chits/profiles. Give that person electrolysis or let everyone grow a damn beard.

And while we're at it, let us put our hands in our pockets! lol...

Response by PO1 Brent Reynolds made Apr 7 at 2015 7:00 AM

2015-04-07T07:00:45-04:00

The issue is individualism. The military has always been about the team over the individual. Conforming to the standard. When you lower the standard or allow individualism, you weaken the group as a whole. Why not just let sailors who are not deployed wear whatever they want? BECAUSE IT'S THE MILITARY. We Voluntarily chose this path. If you wanted to grow a beard or have long hair hair, get a civilian job.

Response by SSG John Erny made Apr 7 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-04-07T15:07:17-04:00

There was a damned good doctor who was Sink I as I recall, he had a beard. I think we can make exceptions for certain cultures. Take talented people from all walks of life, it is who we are as Americans!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-04-07T21:00:58-04:00

One standard across the board. The separation of Church and state should be applied to the military. Practicing your religious beliefs on your own time is fine but when it come to putting on the uniform you should adhere to the standars regardless of your religious beliefs.

Response by CPO Kris Milford made Apr 7 at 2015 9:08 PM

2015-04-07T21:08:49-04:00

Submariners should understand why the standard should be maintained, but I have seen valid exceptions, i.e. , shaving bumps, medical reasons. Feel medical should be the only exception, and they should be well maintained iaw....a standard.

Response by SPC John Rickel made Apr 7 at 2015 10:10 PM

2015-04-07T22:10:23-04:00

Stateside i feel its ok for religious reasons, but in a deployed environment it should be clean shaven.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 11:47 PM

2015-04-07T23:47:57-04:00

I don't see the big deal about having a beard as long as u just maintain it and keep it looking clean.. I don't believe that just cuz u r a cirtant religion u can have a beard and everyone can like the picture.. If he can y can't i?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 1:11 AM

2015-04-08T01:11:16-04:00

This is something that chaps me really hard. Aside from being a hardcore Airborne Infantry Combat Killer, I was cursed with sensitive skin on my face and neck. I can not remember the last time I did not have razor burn, cuts, and shaving wounds up and down my neck. I've had to take extra caution during deployments to Afghanistan to avoid getting infections.
We all know that Special Operations throws the grooming standards out the window on deployments. My understanding is the reasoning is to blend in with the locals, and to avoid infections due to the long periods of time spent outside the wire in the elements. But you have to wonder if they have considered the possibility of encountering chemical agents. Has anyone done any recent tests or studies on modern day masks and their ability to create a seal with facial hair?
Or has the Army just carried the tradition due to stubbornness and overall dislike towards "cool guys"?
I'm sure we can develop a grooming standard for facial hair that is still professional looking and presentable. And a bearded war-fighter kicking in your door definitely presents a more intimidating picture than a baby faced war-fighter with bandages on his neck from shaving. That's my opinion at least.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 8:33 AM

2015-04-08T08:33:03-04:00

I say change it but as far as the uniform goes everyone should be in a complete uniform. I say we should allow beards but only if well kept and groomed maintaining a professional appearance.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-04-08T09:13:43-04:00

I spent a year in Afghanistan working in a NATO unit with multiple nations military. All most all of them were allowed to grow beards. Some had restrictions and some didn't. They looked more military than we did and they were professionals as well. I live in the mountains in Colorado and when I am on leave and grow a beard I am perceived as more "legit" when I talk about mountain sports (fishing,hunting,hiking,rock climbing etc...). It's kinda like that "Truck Guy" commercial on TV. I say we put beards back on our military!

Response by SrA Patrick De May made Apr 8 at 2015 9:20 AM

2015-04-08T09:20:39-04:00

Considering that when not deployed I'd assume most service members wouldn't know where there mask was, I'd say a well kept beard is a great thing. I've had a professional looking beard since I got out.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-04-08T12:56:20-04:00

I think men should definitely be able to grow their facial hair out. Maybe, in a tactical environment, the shaving standard should be maintained, but when our Soldiers are home, why not let them grow it out?? Obviously, maintain and keep it professional, but it's not like we carry around gas masks on base...if something chemically-natured happened here on Fort Riley, we'd all be dead anyway..whether men had facial hair or not, you're not gonna get a seal on your mask because you don't even have the damn thing with you... also, i would love to see females get to wear their hair in a pony tail in uniform as well. Yes, it is authorized while conducting PT, but i think it would look great in uniform as well, as long as their head gear was still within the standards and fit properly..

Response by Sgt Ryan Hoffman made Apr 8 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-04-08T13:46:31-04:00

I read many of the comments on this article have have yet to see anyone mention the cultural benefits to allowing service men to maintain facial hair. When conducting COIN operations, anything that brings our service members closer to the indigenous population helps. Why shouldn't service members have beards when it's an easy, and effective method for establishing respect from local community leaders in places like Afghanistan? Especially when those same individuals are our best avenue for identifying and killing/detaining the low level fighters killing our soldiers?

Response by SFC Ronnie Seaton Jr made Apr 8 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-04-08T16:13:20-04:00

Working with a multinational force on deployments, the other countries allow beards. All ranks and of course standards on the length of them are in place. I witnessed no decrease in mission accomplishment or production. In the end if allowed it would be a personal preference to maintain a beard. Keep the mustache standard.

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made Apr 8 at 2015 5:45 PM

2015-04-08T17:45:25-04:00

You join the united states military , you look like a united states military. clean shave, and sharp. you belong to a religion that prohibits shaving, don't join a united states military branch. This is the USA you abide by our rules. you want to be in a military and have a bread go to the middle east.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-04-08T18:17:39-04:00

I understand that its becoming a popular trend to grow facial hair but still it shows discipline. I probably can't say much because I've only been in the army for two years but I believe that you should follow regulations and be a professional. You wouldn't walk in to a interview with a long beard would you? All and all I'm just saying is that if your going to make a big deal out of not being able to grow facial hair then get out. Dont mean to offend any one but I bet there is some one who is willing and able to take your place.

Response by Sgt Nickson Souffrant made Apr 9 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-04-09T15:00:11-04:00

Your beard will not deteryour character as an upstanding military man

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 11:19 PM

2015-04-09T23:19:04-04:00

Let us grow facial hair while not on deployment as long as it looks clean there shouldn't be a problem with it

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 8:22 AM

2015-04-10T08:22:12-04:00

Let's please change it... I'm tired of shaving everyday. People who worry about the gas masks I understand, but if you read the article instead of just proceeding to cry then you would of read that it mentioned only allowing this on non deployment places like anywhere conus. No one on my base has a gas mask at their side to put on. You could easily shave before they finally distributed gas masks out to anybody. The gas mask is no longer an argument if you come up with so something better let me know.

Response by SSgt Christopher Moore made Apr 11 at 2015 1:37 AM

2015-04-11T01:37:16-04:00

Change is constant. Take military uniforms for example...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 3:24 AM

2015-04-11T03:24:19-04:00

That beard must go. Period.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-04-11T08:31:48-04:00

Full beard and mustache should be allowed. The length should not exceed 1/8 inch. If the U.S. Is following other Western nations on inclusion of females and gays openly serving in all positions they are qualified for, why not do the same on grooming standards?

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Apr 11 at 2015 8:37 AM

2015-04-11T08:37:22-04:00

I stayed clean shaven for about 35 yrs. Now i have a full beard and some hair on my head
there are some shinny spots but there is more now then ever. lol

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 9:42 AM

2015-04-11T09:42:41-04:00

As a prior dc man in the navy we were able to grow beards with a no shave chit underway u bought it threw mwr and I was able to hold the seal on a gas mask and scba mask I vote to modify let us grow them bit in reason

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-04-11T18:00:10-04:00

Let em grow! Where do I sign?

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2015 11:14 PM

2015-04-11T23:14:35-04:00

It has been proven that with the liberal application of vaseline to the beard a seal is easily achivalable in the 10 sec a lot for donning of the gas mask

Response by SFC L.a. Rodriguez-Esquilin made Apr 12 at 2015 8:59 AM

2015-04-12T08:59:33-04:00

Uniformity is an active force of discipline... He who has no concern for uniformity, needs to seek another career path.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2015 10:27 PM

2015-04-12T22:27:54-04:00

I say maintain the Standards. If we relax them one one group we have to relax them for everyone.

Serving is a choice. If you choose to be in our Military then you have to give up certain things.

I would like to have a goatee but hey i have chosen to wear the Uniform.

I am going to have to agree with SFC Walter Mack, quit trying to cater to certain individuals and let's get to Soldiering!

Response by SPC Fabian Fagan made Apr 13 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-04-13T15:46:16-04:00

In a life or death situation that requires proper sealing of a gas mask, one needs to be clean shaven. Shaving profiles and cultural or religious reasons for maintaining a beard go out the window unless that person would rather to die than shave his beard.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 11:07 AM

2015-05-19T11:07:13-04:00

Short, well maintained beards when not in a chemical environment would be my stance.

Response by SPC Eddie Espejo made May 19 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-05-19T11:22:37-04:00

hey I just wanna go back in time and hear his drill sergeant smoke him lol but anyways thats not dress right dress...more like mess hot mess

Response by PO1 Kerry French made Jun 3 at 2015 3:21 AM

2015-06-03T03:21:56-04:00

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Jun 3 at 2015 3:35 AM

2015-06-03T03:35:07-04:00

If it looks like this NO WAY!!

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Jun 3 at 2015 3:35 AM

2015-06-03T03:35:53-04:00

If it looks like this NOOOOO WAY!!!

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Jun 3 at 2015 3:36 AM

2015-06-03T03:36:46-04:00

If it looks like this! IT SHOULD BE REQUIRED!!!

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 3 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-06-03T03:46:10-04:00

I love this Picture. A Sikh, A Warrior Cast from India wearing the Uniform of the United States. When I lived in London the Owner of my Local Quickimart was a Sikh, Wife helping the Oldest Daughter with her school work, The Little Ones running amok in the store. Real Family Values kind of guy, loved shopping there. The Beard and Turban is part of their Religion and I don't have a Problem with it!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-06-03T13:56:04-04:00

This is America! We are American, and when you put on the uniform of the United States of America; its bigger than you or your family. You are supporting, defending, and dying for your country! We have rules and standards for a reason. I understand your religious beliefs but when the government says the Bible or the Cross is not allowed in the service than beards should not be allowed. If the Bible or Cross offends one, then the beard of another offends one as well. You cant take away the beliefs of Christians and still allow other faiths their beliefs.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 3 at 2015 1:59 PM

2015-06-03T13:59:07-04:00

Part of the reasoning is the hygiene and safety issue. Part of it is that by allowing beards you are now adding another thing to have to create rules to regulate and monitor. It's easier to simply ban them.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-06-03T14:45:17-04:00

There is enough regulation without adding to the whole issue with a new grooming standard. Yes as leaders we have and would enforce the standards, but I don't want to lead by having to carry a ruler with me every where I go. When I first came in the Army regulation for uniform appearance was less than 100 pages, but because of the clarity we need today there are two manuals that exceed 500 pages. We are a uniformed service a key word here is uniform. As others have stated we have so much more to concern ourselves with as leaders without adding to the time managing, teaching, and enforcing grooming standards.

There are already means in place for exception to policy. Though I think these are used way to frequently, there are legitimate reasons for having a beard of some type. It is easier to manage these exceptions than managing the masses. Maybe we can get back to the time when we focused on training our Soldiers how to survive on the battlefield, be more proficient with their weapons, and perhaps become future leaders.

Response by SSgt Charles Murphy made Jun 17 at 2015 2:11 PM

2015-06-17T14:11:45-04:00

This Captain should not be allowed special privileges due to his religion.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 23 at 2015 5:13 PM

2015-06-23T17:13:51-04:00

What's your point? Sikhs have ben serving in the Army since WWI.....Worry about the Air Force.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-10-10T12:24:30-04:00

Why should we lower our standards for anyone?

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Oct 14 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-10-14T15:01:07-04:00

They need to keep the standard and not make any adjustments for religious preference. Serving in the Military is a privilege and not a right.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 18 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-12-18T14:06:27-05:00

It is absolute BullPoo that some Soldiers get to wear certain articles of clothing or not shave citing their personal beliefs. this is absolutely ridiculous,if it was going to be an issue they should have never joined. Many cases brought this up after they had already joined. Let's have shaving for all or for none of us. Let's be able to wear extra articles of clothing for all of us, or none of us.

Response by Mikell Campbell made Mar 17 at 2016 2:59 AM

2016-03-17T02:59:16-04:00

for gas mask to seal right it needs to shaved if my hubby has to do this so dose he his god will for give him

Response by PO1 Alvin Stanley made May 8 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-05-08T14:23:23-04:00

I just think swaring alegience to the USA should take precedence over religious costumes!
ALVIN STANLEY PO1, ETR

Response by SFC John Hailer made May 25 at 2016 11:20 PM

2016-05-25T23:20:00-04:00

Hard to figure what all the hoopla is about. Facial hair is something that the majority of men must deal with in their lives. It does not interfere with day to day training and so should be tolerated if not accepted. If the threat of chemical warfare became a real worry it does not take that long to get rid of it, and the great thing is that it will come back all on it's own on down the line.
There are alternatives to the facial sealing type of masks that have been the standard for the U.S. services and from what I have seen some of them can be donned a lot easier than the old type.

Response by MSgt Gerald Larsen made May 28 at 2016 3:45 AM

2016-05-28T03:45:08-04:00

Let him go through the gas chamber one time with the beard.

Response by Sam Carter made Mar 30 at 2017 11:15 AM

2017-03-30T11:15:21-04:00

Well that is a difficult one especially if they are in an active combat role. Do you ask them to shave when they know they are expected to, when in an active field of combat? The thing is the guy in the picture is of the Sikh religion, and for them the turban is usually a must, and they use that to cover their hair that they also must grow long. The beard is also a religious requirement (the beard is different for Muslims because it is not a religious requirement unlike Sikhs).

Response by Cpl James Houston made Jul 25 at 2017 7:35 AM

2017-07-25T07:35:37-04:00

Millenials..... Guess you are entitled to facial hair too. If growing a beard is more important than serving your country on your country's terms, you've made a mistake. Man up and deal with it. This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen or heard. Of course no one wants to shave everyday. Some of us had to shave 2 times a day, but do what everyone else does go, suck it up. Grow yourself a stupid beard when you get out, and call it a day. Military appearance is about attention detail, which is a skill that is highly valuable throughout all aspects of life. This a tradition that I hope is here to stay.

Response by SSG Lee Ruch made Aug 28 at 2018 4:40 PM

2018-08-28T16:40:30-04:00

know people who served when I did

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Nov 25 at 2018 7:36 AM

2018-11-25T07:36:26-05:00

When a person puts on the uniform of the American soldier, we leave ourselves second to serving the US and place much of our personal life on hold. I strongly believe that standards are standards and rules are rules. At all times and places we should look our best in uniform. Unless a man has PSB after shaving, he should not have a beard. As a LEO, I was always concerned with female officers that wore long hair or braids. If a bad guy grabbed and pulled it, it could be deadly. Though we live in a politically correct society. That rules these days.....

Response by Gurpreet Singh made Nov 29 at 2018 11:23 AM

2018-11-29T11:23:41-05:00

As far as I know, earlier, the Canadian Army guy, Harjit Sajjan, the Defense Minister of Canada now, he had same problem. But, he passed that gas mask seal test with beard and hairs. Additionally, I talked with some other Sikh guys in military and they said its not an issue. So, hopefully, we should have that and considering the religion as well.
Thanks the United States armed forces to allow guys with beard and hairs.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2019 9:17 AM

2019-03-01T09:17:23-05:00

The question was, should the services change the policy to permit beards.
It has digressed to whining about folks complying with the standards that the most senior leadership has determined to be the standard. Specifically, religious accommodations and medical profiles.
To those who say meet the standard or move out and kick rocks, or it's discrimination to me to let them do it, but not me: Choke yourself out, I'll wait while you recover.
First, it is not your duty to decide the standard, or apply your standard to anyone, except yourself. It is your duty to enforce the standard. You don't get to decide it.
If a Soldier is on a shaving profile and isn't grooming the beard properly, his supervisor is at fault, as well as that Soldier. Fix the problem, which is the supervisor failing to enforce the standard.
If leadership at DoD decided to permit the wearing of beards as a religious accommodation, suck it up and get out of your feelings. Be a leader, not a biased whiner.
HOWEVER, with regard to the question posed, I do believe that the medical and religious accommodations have made the argument that, other than resistance to change, and the personal opinion of those making the decisions, there is no reason beards shouldn't be permitted, at least in garrison. Further, I posit that the leadership making the decision, have determined that unit level leaders would not enforce the standard were it to be changed.
IF a beard can be worn as a religious or medical accommodation without interfering with the performance of duties, THEN, a beard CAN be worn without it being for an accommodation.
IF a beard can be worn as a religious or medical accommodation AND present a neat and military appearance, THEN a beard CAN be worn and present a neat and military appearance without it being for an accommodation. (The beard in the photo is neat and edged)
For the record, I voted to keep the standard for no reason other than tradition, and my being full of coffee and hate.

Response by SCPO Paul Meyer made Jun 27 at 2019 3:52 PM

2019-06-27T15:52:10-04:00

Assimilation into military culture and adherence to standing orders or regulations is what makes an "individual" part of something bigger than personal ideals. Adherence to standards that allow the general public to differentiate a Professional appearance (we're all representing our respective branches 24/7) from an average civilian is at the heart of this question - not throwback World War era decision making.
IMHO, it's just unprofessional and outrageous that we have come to this point where individual flowers are railing to starkly stand out from the professionals around them. Ask anyone who has served - sacrifices are on the plan of the day...and shaving to maintain a professional appearance isn't even a glimmer of a thought.

Response by SSgt Dominic Gioffre made Jun 18 at 2020 10:24 AM

2020-06-18T10:24:15-04:00

“Modify the standard” is a passive-aggressive way of saying “change the standard”. If women can wear makeup, why can’t men have beards? They kinda serve the same purpose.

Response by SPC Carmen H Ramirez made Oct 12 at 2020 11:44 PM

2020-10-12T23:44:21-04:00

If you do NOT shave, your NBC mask wont fit, you can put it on but, if there is some kind of chemical attack, You will not get a proper seal.

Response by SSgt Salvador Martinez made Apr 19 at 2021 8:34 AM

2021-04-19T08:34:27-04:00

I guess people dont get it until you go into the gas chamber with a full beard. THATS GOING TO HURT.

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 16 at 2022 2:50 PM

2022-04-16T14:50:05-04:00

In the interest of warfare, just curious if anyone has had to MOPP up before in combat? If you have ever had to, you know the importance of that seal. For those of you who never had to, I doubt it will ever fully be understood. My subordinate Marines would pack their gas masks at the bottom of their pack, gassed them with CS twice and that never happened again. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance, our job in the military is to be prepared for the possible, not just the most likely. Professionally, I feel it is in the best interest to follow that line. Weapon, gear, body, it is the whole package, not just gear, not just weapon and not just body.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Apr 16 at 2022 3:20 PM

2022-04-16T15:20:39-04:00

My religious beliefs says smoking pot gives me the inner power to connect with my inner self
See what can happen when you open up the pandora box

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 16 at 2022 4:26 PM

2022-04-16T16:26:47-04:00

People join the army the army does not join people. Set a standard and enforce it.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 16 at 2022 4:30 PM

2022-04-16T16:30:43-04:00

Too many f…ting individuals in an army that’s supposed to be a team. Military wastes a lot of resources trying to accommodate every little fricking issue. Army= kill and destroy enemy. Air Force = fly and kill and destroy enemy. Navy = sail and fly to kill and destroy enemy. Marines = go forward kill and destroy until nothing left. Coast guard = help boat people.

Response by A1C Pamela G Russell made May 15 at 2022 7:39 PM

2022-05-15T19:39:54-04:00

In the above photo, it looks like they have changed the standard for women's hair length.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Sep 14 at 2022 4:45 PM

2022-09-14T16:45:47-04:00

Wouldn't this get in the way of a tight seal with the gas mask?