To what extent can I be disciplined outside my rating chain?

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:42:09 -0400

There is another officer (O-3) who I don't see eye to eye with in the same unit, but different rating chain. He has gone out of his way to humiliate me in front of peers, other senior officers, etc. and blames me without cause on several issues. Today he pulled me aside (without my first line present) and told me that for now on I will stand at the position of attention for him when I address him as a form of disciplinary correction. Can he do this without being in my rating chain? Is it shady that he is doing this without my first line present?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 12 at 2020 4:00 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 16:00:15 -0400

Seniors can always require juniors to be addressed. However, he is a senior officer based on your grade, he is not a senior officer, that term is reserved for Majors and above in a Battalion. Back to the issue. If he did it once as a form of corrective action, let it ride. If he is doing it routinely and not requiring other junior officers to do the same, it could be considered harassment. Speak to you CO and have him or her get involved. Before you do, ensure your ducks are in a row.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 12 at 2020 5:07 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:07:05 -0400

What does your Rater say? I would also see if this is applied to all subordinate officers or just you.

Do the roles in the organization Have a reason why you would be involved in each other's business?

The fact that you don't "see eye to eye" is easy to figure out. You are a 1LT and he is a CPT, Army of the Potomac Poker rules, he wins.

The things you have been corrected on, were they based on unit SOP, policy and regulation or just what they think? Again, what does your Rater say?

If I were your Rater I'd be really concerned why a peer or subordinate has to have these interactions with you.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 12 at 2020 6:48 PM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 18:48:18 -0400

By MOS I see you are an infantry offer, but I do not know your billet. I'll make the following assumptions:
You are a PltLdr, the Captain is a Staff Officer, or The Company Commander of a different Company. After every contact, as soon as possible inform your Company CO. If your CO does not address it and get the situation back to professional civility, your CO is a weak piece of work. Soldier on.

From my own history: I had a Marine Rifle Battalion's Surveillance and Target Acquisition Platoon. We were deployed to Okinawa and we had one half of a squad bay. One of the rifle Companies had one platoon in the other half of the squad bay. The only turf that was considered "common turf" was the head (latrine) and shower facilities. One day, we had ghillie suit (sniper sasquatch) repair on the schedule. It is a messy evolution.

The Company CO of the rifle platoon decided to include our half of the squad bay in his walk through inspection. He called me to task because of the state of our barracks (clean, but piles of shredded strips of burlap everywhere). He ate my lunch like a DI on a shitbird recruit. I took it. He ordered me to clean our side of the squad bay "RIGHT NOW." I informed him that I was following the training schedule, and that I would continue to follow it. Then things got really ugly. This went on long enough for my PltSgt to get my Company CO.

The two CO's exchanged words, then fists. End result both of the CO's stood tall before the BnCO. Who told the Rifle Co CO to stay out of my side of the squad bay. However the Rifle Co CO crapped on me every chance he got. He clearly was not treating me like the other lieutenants in the Bn, not under his command. My CO got the BnCO involved. the Rifle Co CO was given a choice, play nice or be relieved for cause.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2020 11:58 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 11:58:34 -0400

Standing at the position of attention to a higher ranking officer is not a punishment and could be could be required for anyone, has nothing to do with rating chain.
I don't remember having a first line leader with me as an officer - as a junior enlisted personnel, yes.
If you are being harassed then you should file a complaint. You also need to talk to your supervisor or commander about the issues you are having with this Captain ad try to get it resolved at the lowest level.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 13 at 2020 3:00 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 15:00:55 -0400

Definitely get your boss involved and write down a journal of events to make you more credible.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jun 13 at 2020 4:10 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sat, 13 Jun 2020 16:10:59 -0400

So there are two things happening here.

First, you aren’t limited or protected to only being corrected by those in your rating chain.

Second, if there is a legitimate concern about this Capt bring it up with your chain of command

Response by SGT Allen Treviranus made Jun 15 at 2020 1:59 PM

SGT Allen Treviranus — Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:59:58 -0400

Believe it or not, a lot of people who act like this in the military want to see you do well. It is a tough love approach.

When they start being quiet and document everything, that is when you need to be concerned IMO.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Jun 18 at 2020 5:13 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:13:11 -0400

Sounds like he is abusing his authority. I would report this officer to his superiors.