Too Pretty for the Military?

2014-12-25T14:24:06-05:00

I had a Soldier that would openly boast about how she was the "prettiest girl in the Battalion." While I did not agree, nor did I care, what did stand out to me was how much importance she cared about phyisical appearance. Also, just based upon what she said and how she acted, I deduced that her previous leadership allowed her to get away with murder because she was flirtacious. Without getting into the gorey details, at one point myself, the PSG and the Soldier had to sit down and discuss her sexually harassing me.

So, getting into the nitty gritty in my discussion, there have been a lot of recent developments in the military regarding whether or not females appearance. Commercials featuring "pretty" Soldiers, a National Guard Soldier under verbal scrutiny because she competed for and won the title of Ms. Kansas just to name a few. Taking the example of the Ms. Kansas, do you think the same reaction would have come from a male Soldier in a Mr. Universe contest?

On the flip side of it all, there is no issues with the Army coming out with a new uniform that is more "fitted" for the female body.

What do you think of females being "Too Pretty" to be in the Military?

Too pretty to fight? Army shakeup over frontline push for women (+video)

Army officials got in trouble for suggesting that "average-looking women" be used in promotional photos, illustrating the social dynamics that continue to play a role as women assume combat jobs.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 25 at 2014 2:22 PM

2014-12-25T14:22:36-05:00

I hope I never have a Soldier who constantly boasts how good looking they are because that would annoy me to no end.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 2:37 PM

2014-12-25T14:37:57-05:00

I have met quite a few female soldiers that outside of uniform I would say are very attractive, from the lower enlisted to senior enlisted , no matter how attractive I may or may not find them in one way or another when they are in the uniform I view them as a Soldier, as long as their attitudes about their appearance do not affect good order and discipline or mission accomplishment or cause any other due concerns within the unit, I wouldn't waste too much time on it, it reminds me of a male Soldier who is a bodybuilder that looks in the mirror all the time and flexes and boasts about how ripped they are only with females we look at them a little bit different since they are the opposite sex

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 4:35 PM

2014-12-25T16:35:35-05:00

I have no issue with an alternate uniform for females. Sexual dimorphism is a thing, and giving a female a uniform that fits her properly seems like a no brainer to me. We want uniforms to fit a male smartly, why not females?

As far as "pretty" soldiers go, that's where I take a more firm stance. If I had my way, which I'm sure a lot of people will be thankful that I don't in fact have any say in this, I'd have grooming standards be uniform across the board for males and females. Give everyone a shaved head coming into basic! No make up, at all, and certainly no jewelry.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 4:38 PM

2014-12-25T16:38:54-05:00

I've been there, kind of, SFC Private RallyPoint Member, regarding the "prettiest Soldier in the battalion." (No, not me personally ... HA HA HA!) I came to a new unit back in the late 80s and there was a very attractive female SGT in our section. I was a CW2 at the time. At section meetings, it seemed that E.F. Hutton had something to say if the SGT so much as started to open her mouth to speak. And I couldn't get a word in edgewise, as they say. She was "using" her attractiveness, in my humble opinion.

That's not to say that there are not lots of bad things (sexual harassment, sexual assault, and the like) that happen to females in the military. All I'm saying is that there are two sides to the coin.

As for featuring attractive women in ads ... I don't really care about that. I assume they feature attractive men as well, as the Army wants to attract people and "sex" (i.e., attractive people in ads) sells.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Dec 25 at 2014 5:48 PM

2014-12-25T17:48:09-05:00

I've never heard garbage like this crap - being too pretty to serve your country? That's bull butter. I say saddle up and be part of something bigger than yourself. What's this too pretty noise all about, pick up your dang rifle because it's your shift on guard duty!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 7:20 PM

2014-12-25T19:20:18-05:00

Concerning the alternate combat uniform: Why now? We've been wearing the ACUs, as is, for the past seven, eight years now. I'm just curious if there are that many females in the Army that this change is justified financially.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 7:31 PM

2014-12-25T19:31:44-05:00

Oh, and haha. I just saw the video. I wonder if they will do a follow-up for this later on.

Headline:
Female Service-Members Refuse to Be Photographed.

"Hi, I'm Maj Clueless from Public Affairs. Mind if we use you in our new recruitment brochure?"

*narrows eyes*

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 7:53 PM

2014-12-25T19:53:13-05:00

Sad but true sex sells even in military advertising.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 25 at 2014 8:32 PM

2014-12-25T20:32:41-05:00

This is why I like the AF policy on uniforms. If you dont like them, pay to tailor them yourself. Just dont change the overall appearance or function of the uniform.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 9:09 PM

2014-12-25T21:09:49-05:00

These sort of posts actually upset me a little. I understand the need for better fitting uniforms (I've seen how sloppy it looks if a uniform is too small or too big for a Soldier). However, making us females look more like females when we're in uniform is ridiculous. You don't join the military to be an individual, and you sure as heck don't put on your uniform to stand out and look attractive. I personally don't wear makeup when I'm in uniform; my nails are cut extremely short; and my hair is as tight in that bun as it can be. I'm not trying to exalt myself by any means. Far from it-I'm simply one whisper of a voice saying stop the madness.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 1:01 PM

2014-12-26T13:01:38-05:00

Being in combat arms my exposure to females at work is very limited, but I've still seen this scenario play out. It's something that the military is going to have to address in mass at some point because of the current plans of integration.

As far as the uniforms... If it improves mission effectiveness I'm all for it. If it's because females want to look "better" in uniform then it is a waste of resources. I haven't done much reading on this so I'll leave it at that.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 10:21 PM

2014-12-26T22:21:46-05:00

Properly fitting uniforms and female soldiers taking advantage of their looks are two completely separate issues. Being that I'm 6 foot 3 and around 165lbs I have a hard time getting a uniform to fit. I completely sympathize with female soldiers if they want a better fitting uniform.
As for the "pretty" issue, it's human nature for people to want to look good. For a large number of females, it's a pretty big deal. I don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't break regs, and if it isn't done to attract attention, or subvert the chain of command. But, I'll also throw this out there; if females didn't get extra attention for being "pretty" it wouldn't be a big deal. It bothers me when "pretty" females get all the blame.
I hope placing pretty in quotation marks helps denote the type I'm talking about.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Dec 27 at 2014 3:08 AM

2014-12-27T03:08:16-05:00

My Shih Tzu doesn't even like that.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Dec 27 at 2014 7:16 PM

2014-12-27T19:16:04-05:00

I hate the stereotype of being 'too pretty' for the military. I've been told that numerous times, and I find it very offensive. So instead of serving my country as a career, what is the appropriate job for a 'pretty woman'? Appearance should never be used as a means to get ahead, it's shallow and self-centered. That female in your platoon is giving all the hardworking women in the military a bad name, and I wish she had a decent female mentor to set her straight.

As for showing 'pretty girls' in commercials, there is nothing wrong with it. I think non-military women would find it inspiring to see strong beautiful women representing our military. It shows that we don't need to sacrifice our beauty to serve.

I think it's great when our military members have personal achievements. One of my favorites is Noah Galloway on the cover of Men's Health. Their accomplishments are inspiring, and it makes me proud to call them my brothers and sisters in arms.

http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/ultimate-mens-health-guy-winner

Noah Galloway Is the Ultimate Men's Health Guy

The last night Noah Galloway's body was whole, he was behind the wheel of a Humvee in Iraq. His night-vision goggles didn't reveal the trip wire. "The roadside bomb was big enough to send our 10,000-pound Humvee flying through the air," he says in his Alabama drawl. "We landed wheels down in a canal."Until that moment, Galloway had found his calling in the U.S. Army. He'd dropped out of the University of Alabama at Birmingham after the planes...

Response by MSG Sommer Brown made Dec 27 at 2014 7:51 PM

2014-12-27T19:51:03-05:00

I think that the problem stems from how a guy or girl responds to a female or male. How does someone find out they are attractive? People tell them on a consistent basis and flirt with them. So, that being said if we, both male and female, stick to why we are here, to serve our country, and not use the close interactions we have to have to do our jobs as a excuse to prowl then problem would be solved. Now, this will be as easy as creating world peace and ending homelessness. It comes down to leadership creating an environment focused on minimizing the way we promote what we do. Face it sex sells and if a female thinks all guys in uniform look like X then they want to be where there are a lot of people who look like that and same with the guys. The guys will watch a commercial if there is a hot girl in uniform. We are not selling skills, training, selfless service when we use the "models" we are selling sex and. What happened to just showing what we do, what we stand for, why we are needed, and pushing our values, ethics and morals. I am afraid it won't ever change, society is way to vain.

Response by SGT William Howell made Dec 30 at 2014 5:49 PM

2014-12-30T17:49:17-05:00

I am so mad. I wanted to make my uniform fit me to accent my curves better. I was told it was a nogo. Damn you Top!!!! AHHHH! I could have been pretty.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 1 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-01-01T12:55:48-05:00

My 2 cents... On "to pretty".

No such thing. Being in the military is a choice. Like any other choice there are some underlying reasons a person; pretty, plain, not so pretty; join the military. Adventure, travel, College money, job training... Or simply to get out of the house and stand on their own feet... Which was more common than not when I recruited. brains or beauty... People want to get ahead... That's human nature. That's not a bad thing as long as its done professionally.

As for the conduct. Only happens if leadership let's it... I've corrected the "tight" clothing issue before... And the flirting... Mostly I've accomplished it being the "older brother/dad" and would say... , "Really?" And that was enough to fix the issue... The harder part were the "suitors" that would come for office visits... I handled them by kicking them out of the area. Subordinate Co workers were easy... Initial counseling... Don't let it come in the office... If I detect it affecting the job.. You're both done.

I did have a problem with a female CPT. She was attractive and a half a dozen male officers in my unit would come over to the office... When they never had before... I corrected that by informing my CPT that I didn't allow it in the office and she was no different... And that I would treat the male officers in the same manner as I did the male enlisted... When they came over I'd ask them there business... If they were there to "talk" I'd pull them to the side and explain the situation and standards and never had to say it twice. She appreciated it also.

Again... Leadership is the key... Duh!!! It only happens if leaders.... And peers allow it!

Again.... My 2 cents