Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 3 at 2020 10:20 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 10:20:40 -0500

Excellent Q&A share sir.

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Feb 3 at 2020 11:22 AM

COL Dana Hampton — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 11:22:01 -0500

Best advice for what to college courses to study that will have a direct impact on your attractiveness to a future employer and the most $$$....Focus on Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathmatics (STEM) subjects. These are the high demand skills employers are looking for and have a better than average wage.

My 2 cents.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Feb 3 at 2020 1:04 PM

LTC Eugene Chu — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 13:04:31 -0500

Avoid for-profit colleges if possible. Some have dubious reputations along with above average tuition. Some who served and got their education from those "schools" have regrets

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/why-these-veterans-regret-their-for-profit-college-degrees-and-debt

Why these veterans regret their for-profit college degrees -- and debt

A new documentary illuminates how veterans have been particularly vulnerable to abuses by the for-profit college industry.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Feb 3 at 2020 1:40 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 13:40:40 -0500

In the civilian world, and in the military as a career, what will serve you the best is someone with a "well rounded" background and Education.

1. If your Major is in Science then have a Minor in Liberal Arts.
2. If your Major is in Liberal Arts then have a minor in Science.

Careful not to restrict yourself to a single discipline.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Feb 4 at 2020 8:40 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:40:05 -0500

At Concordia University, you can get up to 32 credits for military service and a 20% discount on tuition for an online MBA and DBA program. That can be really important for vets with families to support

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Feb 8 at 2020 5:04 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 17:04:55 -0500

Re: #3...I used the same tenacity and drive in college, as I had in the military. I was not part of the SVA...those students were half my age. I currently hold a Masters in Healthcare Informatics.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2020 4:53 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 16:53:22 -0500

thank you for this post

Response by SFC Bhrett Sikkema made Feb 11 at 2020 11:50 AM

SFC Bhrett Sikkema — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 11:50:56 -0500

A very informative article. For those still on active duty be aware that there are resources on most large installations that can assist you in navigating the college labyrinth. There are VA benefits advisors at these installations who can provide additional information about eligibility, cost, and additional programs that can make the transition process a lot easier. The GI bill comparison tool is a great starting point for determining cost but understand that the tuition amounts listed are averages and they are for bachelor degrees only in most cases. Also do not forget that the Yellow Ribbon Program can cover additional costs of private schools as long as the school is part of the program.
If your in the Ft Campbell area there are nine of us here that can provide additional information, Bragg, Drum, Stewart and others, all have VA advisors. Oh and last but not least a good chunk of the advisors are either retirees and or veterans. Stop by and see us we are located at BLDG 5661, Soldier for Life building.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 12 at 2020 1:01 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 01:01:09 -0500

I like this a lot, thanks for sharing. The one that jumps out to me is, "1. How many college credits is your military experience worth?" -- many folks need to get smart on this

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2020 12:56 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:56:04 -0500

My question is, coming in 4 sem hours short of completing my BS EMS, other than the “image” that it presents, what is the hype to completing a degree when there are avenues and education that are of much greater benefit to the service, the individual and to future employers? I can see little benefit to the education that I have received this far vs the experience that I have gained working in my profession. As a paramedic working toward that BS in EMS, and having managed EMS personnel/Ambulance services, the BS program seems to offer very little that will truly define your abilities a manager or as a provider. Very similar to the BSN vs ADN. My experience with nurses has demonstrated that the ADN offers you an employee with greater breadth of experience and skill due to the increased number of clinical hours vs time spent writing papers that mimic your professors opinion. Understand that this “experience” may be a direct reflection of the particular programs that the individual ADNs completed. As a paramedic obtaining my FP-C, CCEMTP, Tactical Paramedic cert, and community paramedic cert adds a level of expertise and diversity that benefits the customer and employer across a plethora of venues and operational applications. The seemingly silly side of that is that an EMT a lower scope of practice and limited operational value, who completes their associates degree, will receive higher marks and greater promotability. Have we become so settled into the idea that “perception is reality” that we can’t accept evidence or fact as reality? My particular profession is moving toward a degree requirement in order to impress a higher opinion upon other medical professions to encourage greater respect and greater compensation; however, at the end of the day, the skill set and utilization demonstrates very little return on investment. It does nothing to bolster your abilities on the road, in the air, at the bed side or mission planning brief. Most of the components of these degree programs make very little impact upon the individual or offer very little net gain vs the additional certifications. Maybe the next 4 semester hours and capstone project will change my mind. Just a thought.

Response by Jeffrey Hall made Feb 12 at 2020 4:04 PM

Jeffrey Hall — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 16:04:40 -0500

Great article! Full transparency, I work for an online university who is committed to helping servicemembers and veterans complete their education. I'll respond to each of the 5 points, slightly biased, but hopefully this is useful information for anyone who wants to earn a degree.

1. How many college credits is your military experience worth?
We have created a Military Credit Calculator on our website, which provides an ESTIMATE of what your training could translate to toward one of our degrees. All you need to do is input your branch, skill level and MOS/Rating and it will show you which of our degrees may be a good fit for you, based on your occupation. The calculator is a great tool to use and play with -- you don't need to speak with anyone in order to use it. I have not seen other schools with a similar tool. But I encourage anyone to try it to see how many credits you can get...and take that to other schools to compare. The primary goal is to earn a degree that fits you, even if with another school.

2. How do you manage to take classes while deployed?
Look for schools who offer a Leave of Absence policy. We do. It allows you to take a 12 month leave and pick up classes right where you left off. Make sure whatever college you consider does focus on military students.

3. How do you transition into college life after the military?
We are an online college, so it may be a little different than going to a physical campus. However, I think it's important to utilize all of the resources available and find other students who are just like you. Talk to faculty and staff, let them know who your are and don't be afraid to ask for help. Many schools have organizations specifically for servicemembers.

4. What college course has been most helpful for your career?
I'll answer this from a different perspective. While servicemembers and veterans can enroll in any degree program, we specifically focus on what will maximize your training and experience. For instance we offer several Health Science degrees, and can advise on the best one depending on your goals. If you're a 68 series (Army example) we have one associate's degree that is better if you want to earn it quickly to use for promotion points or apply it to your military career. We have another associate's degree that will put you on a path toward a bachelors and eventually masters in the health care field if that's where you want to focus after transition. IT and Cybersecurity are fast growing fields so there is usually potential for careers in those fields

5. What are the pros and cons of getting an online degree?
The primary "pro" that anyone will say is the flexibility of taking classes wherever you are, and on a relatively flexible schedule. Many online schools are different, I have heard from others how isolated you can feel in an online class. That can be true for some schools, but not all. I encourage anyone to take a "virtual tour" of the classroom environment and explore the online resources and student communities. Also, make sure any college you consider is accredited.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2020 12:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Feb 2020 12:28:22 -0500

I gotta say, I’ve been lucky to be able to finish my Fire Science degree online, and I was able to do it while in Europe. I’d say this: find out what you want to study before you even think about applying to schools. Then figure out which schools (like 3-5 schools) would fit your schedule. Then the costs and how much you can get from education benifits, and finally does the school have a good VA department. Trust me that last one will be very important when your 1/2 way through your program and something goes wrong.

Response by Sgt Clindon Bagwell made Feb 15 at 2020 9:53 AM

Sgt Clindon Bagwell — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 09:53:57 -0500

Look at getting into a trade. I took advantage of the UA Veterans In Piping course before I got out. They taught me how to weld and set me up with an awesome Local Union. You go to night school 2-3 times a week as part of your apprenticeship while working and getting paid. I get 100% employer paid health, dental, and vision insurance for me and my family, a great employer paid retirement, and great pay( journeyman make around $42 an hour on the check). Time and a half after 8 hours and double time on weekends and holidays. There’s nothing wrong with going to a 4 year college and getting a degree, but it’s not the only option out there.

Response by Mark Glassen made Feb 18 at 2020 9:38 PM

Mark Glassen — Tue, 18 Feb 2020 21:38:04 -0500

Expect to be disappointed with amount of credit accepted from your JST. While the American Council on Education (ACE) makes credit recommendations on one's JST for military training, they are by no means a guarantee of college credit applied to your chosen degree and at a given school. ACE reports that 2,300 colleges agree to accept their recommendation when it legitimately applies to one of their degree plans. As a general rule of thumb, the more specific the knowledge requirements are for a given major (think: Civil, Electrical Engineer or Medical degree) the less credit the college will grant from your JST. (The exception to this is if a school has built an applied science degree around an MOS). The more general the knowledge requirements are (think: Liberal Arts, Communications, Leadership) the more credit will typically be accepted by a college. Most JST recommended credit, if accepted, will be accepted for the electives section on your degree. Two examples: 68Ws receive no credit for their core courses (think: A&P, Chemistry, Biology etc) towards a BS in Nursing even though ACE recommends their AIT training. However, pursue a BA in Liberal Studies from Excelsior, and you can expect up to half or more of the 120 total credits to be accepted from your JST - if you have that many recommended for college credit. I'm not downplaying the fantastic opportunity ones military training can be toward degree completion, just that the recommended credits are not universally accepted. Having previously worked in USAREC, I understand many recruiters will talk about credit for military training, as they should, but fail to explain the limitations.
NOTE: TA now supports training, books and exam costs for all vocational credentials found in Credentialing Opportunities Online (Army COOL https://www.cool.osd.mil/army)

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Response by SPC John Tacetta made Feb 20 at 2020 7:45 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 19:45:37 -0500

Never go to a FOR PROFIT school! Might as well walk out the gate into the arms of a used car salesman!

Online schools are the new correspondence courses. Enroll only in those that provide professionally recognized certificates or are offered by Accredited non-profit institutions with a defined degree track.

Think about what you want to do with your education. If you're looking for money then Science, Technology, Engineering and Math are on the menu as are trade schools for plumbers, electricians, welders and heating, ventilation, air conditioning and refrigeration (HVACR) technicians. If you're looking for truth, then philosophy, political science, language and the arts may be more in line with your goals. Check with your state university system and local trade unions, all of which should have special tracks for veterans.

Response by Brian Hock made Feb 23 at 2020 5:47 PM

Brian Hock — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:47:30 -0500

Borrowing from Capt. Brandon Charters recent article on “the top 5 questions the military community has about higher education”I wanted to expand on some of the questions, based on my almost 15 years experience working with Veteran and Active Duty soldiers as a professor at Austin Peay State University, which is near Fort Campbell, home to the 101st Airborne. While I do not have military experience myself, I had both grandfathers serve in WWII, one was a forward observer serving under Gen. Patton, and three-time POW, the other stayed mostly stateside and was a DI. I grew up hearing war stories from both. I have also been a voracious reader of history books about WWII, the Civil War, Vietnam and OIF and OEF. So I feel I have some understanding of what it takes to be a soldier and, having heard war stories from my advisees and students, I have been made aware to help understand the issues of re-acclimating back to civilian life. Having said that, I want to start with question # 3 from Capt. Charters Article.

3. How do you transition into college life after the military?

The first piece of advice that I share with anyone planning to attend college is to not worry so much about the name, but go where you feel comfortable. At larger, more well-known named institutions, you may feel more like a number, than at smaller regional institutions that focus more on undergraduates. My personal advice to anyone attending college is to attend a smaller college or university for undergrad and go to the larger more well-known institution for graduate school. I encourage anyone to take a tour of the campus before enrolling. While I understand that is not always possible, especially if deployed and/or plan to only take online classes, it can still be beneficial, for no other reason than to help put a face to a name and give you that human element at the university. Having said that, I would say to do your research about what programs they offer for your career aspirations. There is nothing more bizarre than having a student attend a university for engineering and the university doesn’t even offer it (yes, this has happened!). One place might be a university located next to a military base, as they have experience working with veteran/active duty populations.
Second, is to find a good advisor that you have a good rapport with. You will probably be randomly assigned an advisor when you declare a major, but that does not mean you are stuck with that individual. Some schools do a good job and will try to pair vets with a faculty member that has experience working with them, most do not. If you don’t like your advisor, you are free to switch to someone else. If your campus has a Veteran’s Organization, and that may be a priority when selecting a college, they could be a good resource to identify a good advisor for your major. They may even have a list. Other suggestions are to try to find out which professors may be a Veteran themselves or maybe has college athletic experience. Other advisors may not appreciate how some veterans/active duty may speak freely or bluntly with frivolous use of sentence enhancers or have other humorous antic dotes that others may not appreciate, especially any gallows humor. While not all advisors that are veterans or have an athletic background will appreciate those qualities, I think most will. I have come to understand that soldiers are not afraid to voice opinions, even unpopular ones, based on their worldly and/or combat experiences, but this may not be well received by others. It is common to hear from vets and active duty that they have to learn to censor themselves more in civilian life. With time you will learn who or when you can share those life experiences and/or opinions. Finally, contrary to popular opinion, not all universities are bastions of liberal indoctrination and are intolerant to conservative viewpoints. Again, it will depend on the institution or may be different based on the major, but I have found it is more of a 50/50 split on political ideologies at the universities I have attended and worked.

1. How many college credits is your military experience worth?

This one is a catch-22 and it all depends on your timeline and career goals. Gone are the days of the full-time student that takes 7-8 years to complete a Bachelor’s degree (Yeah, their called doctors! – David Spade in Tommy Boy). The reality is, that most institutions require 120 credit hours to complete a Bachelor’s degree and financial aid offices do not like to pay for more than those hours. The Veteran’s Administration (VA) is even more a stickler (Go Figure!). As Capt. Charters pointed out, step one is to submit your Joint Services Transcript (JST). Once the university receives it, and in my experience, they will automatically apply credits based on your MOS or total military experience, often without contacting you. My personal record as a major advisor was a former combat vet that was given 121 credit hours by the university, based on his military experience. The problem with that is that the VA views that as you don’t have much money left to take courses in the career of your choosing, and this individual wanted nothing more to do with the medical profession. Therefore, I, as his major advisor, had to fill out a Prior Credit Evaluation form, that is required by the VA. Here is the pertinent information from our university’s form:
Both the law and regulations require schools to grant appropriate credit for prior training and experience. The current procedure provides for termination of VA benefits if the school does not furnish an evaluation of prior credit within one (1) term (38 U.S.C. 3675(b)(2) and 3676(c)(4), and §21.4253(d)(3) and 4254(c)(4)).
You will most likely have to contact your major advisor EVERY semester to have them fill this form out. The first time this is done, it is highly advisable to meet (either in person, over the phone or virtually) with your major advisor to discuss your career plans. Here are some questions you should be prepared to honestly answer:
1. How quickly do you want to finish your degree?
2. Are you just needing a degree for a job you already have or are looking for a new career choice?
3. How many credit hours do you want to take?
4. If a minor is not required for the major, do you want to have one?
Your advisor will take all this information into account when filling out the Prior Credit Evaluation Form, by subtracting the number of hours obtained from your prior military service, from the 120 needed to graduate. Once this form is filled out, request or make a copy to keep for the next time. Major Advisors may also be able to subtract other courses transferred in, if they are not required for the major/degree.
A common question I field from Veterans is what to do if you want to take additional courses once you are approaching the 120, but still receive funding? One way might be to add a minor in the area of the extra courses, take the courses but not the rest of the courses required for the minor, then drop the minor before graduation. Another may be to declare a second major or change of major. These decisions may require a meeting with the VA to obtain funding, but it is one possible way around it.
2. How do you manage to take classes while deployed?
Obviously, there are a number of possible distractions or commitments/obligations that may hinder your course performance. You need to be realistic about your ability to complete a course and try to find a time during the day you could complete the work. My first piece of advice is to let the professor know you are deployed and may have trouble with some of the deadlines. If you know ahead of time which deadlines may be an issue, let the professor know ASAP so possible arrangements can be made. If your schedule drastically changes during the course that may prevent you from attending and/or finishing, again let your professor know ASAP. It is usually easier to work with a student during the semester, instead of having almost zero communication with a student and then hearing from them the end of the semester with a bunch of excuses as to why they missed class/assignments. I can work with you during the semester, however, at the end of the semester, my options are far fewer as I have a deadline to submit grades and I am usually less likely to believe your excuses, as most of them coming at the end of the semester are complete BS. You have 3 possible options: 1) the first is to have alternative deadlines during the semester; 2) you could withdraw from the course (but you need to be aware of the withdrawal deadline); and 3) is to ask for an Incomplete in the class and make up the rest of the work with a one-year time period. This is typically up to the professor and they may dictate your options. The withdrawal deadline during the semester is important because after that deadline (could be anytime between the half-way point up to ¾ of the semester), a withdrawal triggers an automatic F in the course! Again, communication with your professor during the semester is important.
4. What college course has been most helpful for your career?
I think this is subjective and depends on the major. For me it was a Sociology of Sexuality course and a Health Psychology course. The first one is obvious when you are 18, the second one was helpful due to a journaling assignment that made me realize how much I was drinking in college. While it wasn’t really affecting my performance, I realized I was starting down a path that could have changed my life and career aspirations. So my guess is it may not be a course, but the assignments given in a course. My advice is if you have not been to college in a while or it is your first time, take some intro level courses to help you acclimate to the work load, college life, etc. There is a reason you go through a physical, Basic Training and then additional courses/training in the military. You have to crawl before you can walk and walk before you can run. Start off with some easier courses, gain some confidence then work up the ladder to harder classes. While you may not be motivated to take them, English, History, Social Sciences, Humanities type General Education requirements might be good to start off with. I would avoid the Science courses such as Biology, Chemistry, etc. until maybe your second year. The problem with those courses is the 1 credit lab course that actually eats up 2-4 hours of time a week. One source for an answer to this type of question may be your Veterans Organization on campus.
5. What are the pros and cons of getting an online degree?
The negative stigma of an online degree is going away. There may still be a few out there that look down their noses at an online degree, but my guess is they are someone you wouldn’t want to work for anyways. The problem are the for-profit universities, that may lack accreditations or don’t offer a quality education. Having said that, a number of universities are realizing the benefits of offering degrees online, and more and more are offering either partial or completely online degrees. So therefore, I would again look at the name of the institution you are looking to enroll, combined with the online advising support they offer. I would also Google the name of the institution and the word problems or issues and see what pops up. If you receive an online degree from Harvard, your degree will not distinguish if it was online or on-ground, so that is something to remember as well. The biggest con is that, in my opinion, there are some courses that don’t always work online. I can’t imagine taking more complex courses like a Statistics course, etc. online. I think I would need to face-to-face interactions to deal with confusions or alternative explanations for difficult topics. But this may vary by person. In my experience, people either love or hate online courses.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Feb 25 at 2020 12:19 AM

PO2 David Allender — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 00:19:21 -0500

Education, today, is a very important part of your life, whether in the service or outside of the service the higher your educational background, the better for you and those under you and over you. You will be able to help those under you and be a part of the community in service or outside of it. Today, life is getting complicated with computers and many hobs in the work force. Don'[t let yourself down, or the ones under you.

Response by MSgt Ted C Hall made Feb 26 at 2020 9:17 AM

MSgt Ted C Hall — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:17:19 -0500

My CCAF transcript showed 96 credits. The college I finally graduated from (Mt Olive) honored more of those hours than I'd have dreamed of.

Response by SP5 Michael Cates made Feb 26 at 2020 6:39 PM

SP5 Michael Cates — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:39:08 -0500

In 1969 returning from 'Nam! My mother ask me one morning at Breakfast! So what do you want to do with the rest of your life (I had just turned 21)! I had been trained as a 76Y30 a Small Arms Specialist/and Supply Sp/! I new I new a lot about small arms repair! But So What! I was back in the USA!!! I think that I never mentioned 'Nam ever AFTER ONE DAY OF WEARING WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A BADGE OF COURAGE TO Los Angeles Pierce College in Woodland Hills,Ca. I ended up taking it off quickly on campus and then BURNING MY JACKET THAT DAY AT HOME!!! I just put my experience in the back of my mind in a nice little box and pretended to myself that "Nam was in another life time! I only opened that Box a couple of times to help me get my Teaching Credential in Theatre and Speech Communications from CSUN!!! I never told girlfriends that I was a 'Nam Vet "0"! It was about my 3 or 4th year of marriage before I mention in passing that I was a 'Nam Vet. to my present wife! It was just not necessary! Then just occasionally if we watched a 'Nam Movie like the one made by Oliver Stone! He just so happened to have put his two Boys in our Broadway Gymnastic School Michael and David and he allowed my wife and I and our children to stay at his Vacation Homes that was cool! But again that really didn't need any conversation about 'Nam! Oliver and I really never talked about 'Nam in any way! Except for that one day I mentioned to him that I was a Vietnam Veteran to '67-'68 TET!!! Ooooopppppssss! Using the GI Bill is just so important! I told my mother that morning "I think that I want to be a Priest or Teacher" and I decided that morning to be a Teacher and my mother said "Well then you need to hang out with those that want to be Teachers"!!!! The rest is History! I have owned BGS for now 40yr's and Growing and have taught a class at CSUDH in Carson, Ca. for over 21yr's oh it is called an "Introduction to the World of Gymnastics"!!! Stay Focused on your Goals!!! Good Luck! Pleased to answer any question any time! Michael Martin Cates

Response by Capt Charles Heckman made Feb 26 at 2020 7:24 PM

Capt Charles Heckman — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:24:27 -0500

After my return from Vietnam in November 1968, I tried to apply for graduate school at the Department of Systematics and Ecology of Cornell University. After the student adviser learned that I had just returned from Vietnam, he told me not to apply because technically, it was a few days too late. He said that "maybe" the faculty might consider my application a year later. A few days later, the results of the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) I had taken arrived, and my score was above the 99th percentile level in biology achievement. I applied at St. John's University, which had courses that did not fit in well with the field I was interested in. They accepted my application four months late. The administration wanted me to take two aptitude tests of the GRE, and I scored between the 98th and 99th percentile level in verbal ability and at the 96th percentile level of the quantitative ability test. That means that my marks were about in the upper 1% on two of the tests and in the upper 4% on the other. At the time, Cornell was receiving more money than all of the other colleges and universities in New York State combined. After receiving my M.S. degree with a GPA of 3.92/4.00, I applied and was admitted to a graduate school in Germany, where I received my doctoral degree with an average of 1.0 (=A in the American system). For the next 17 years, I worked in Germany and in Brazil. I was recommended for a German-sponsored professorship of my choice at a university in Uruguay or in Argentina, but the administration of the program ruled that I was not eligible because I was an American citizen, and the program was only for citizens of a country in the European Union. I then applied for a research position with the USDA Forest Service in Alaska. A former professor from the University of California at Berkeley interviewed me there and said that I would be refused the job under all circumstances, but the group would pay me $20,000 if I would withdraw from the selection so that a much less qualified non-veteran could be legally hired. I reported the bribe offer and wound up blacklisted as both a Vietnam veteran and a whistleblower. Since 1999, I have had no employment since because I made the mistake of returning to the United States. Several years ago, The VVA Veteran contained an article stating that "the more education and skills a veteran has, the more likely he is to become homeless." That is absolutely true. I am presently authoring a book series for identifying South American aquatic insects. For each book I write, I receive about $1200, which just about covers the costs of my trips to libraries to do the research. Each book takes about two years to complete. Because I have developed Type II diabetes and accompanying conditions due to two years of exposure to the herbicides in Vietnam, I receive a pension amounting to a disability of about 30%, even though I have 0% chance of finding any employment in the United States and do not have enough savings to move back to Europe. I have had no prospects of employment in the United States during the 52 years since I received my honorable discharge from the USAF. If a veteran wants to get a job in academia, I would strongly recommend that he find another country to live in where domestic communists do not run the universities.

Response by MSgt Mike Wehner made Feb 26 at 2020 7:30 PM

MSgt Mike Wehner — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:30:30 -0500

When I first arrived at McConnell AFB in 1987, our maintenance tech advisor (CMSgt) called me into his office and notified me that he scheduled me to see the base education officer. "Do whatever he says". Great advise! I went on to complete my CCAF associates, a BS Industrial Mgmt and an MBA. Over 35 and too old for commissioning at the time, I decided to stay on active duty in spite of recommendations to go guard/reserve and go into the private sector. I don't regret that. I can say that my education was an exact match for my civilian career. At Honeywell, we're a business that designs and manufactures aircraft components, engines, power units, flight deck, etc.... so my education directly aligns to that. Also, my retiree status was a great benefit during my corporate posting to our company's European headquarters in Switzerland. My family and I would drive up to Ramstein AB for the occasional "American" weekend. We also were able to Space-A for a holiday in Crete. In fact, my daughter was able to see the flight deck first hand during the flight. Great photos too next to aircraft. None of my professional colleagues could match that, no matter what they paid for their airline tickets. Later in my Air Force career, I became superintendent of the Ed Services office at Osan AB, South Korea. A chance to help others chart their education journey.

Simple advise, ask for help, there's lots out there and you're not alone. Also, be true to yourself. Resist the temptation to get the easiest degree you can, or the "Hot" degree you read about. Do what YOU like to do and the study will be easier because you're really interested in it. That will translate into a great job interview when the time comes. It's really hard to fake enthusiasm and employers can pick up on that. At least I do.

In 1982, I was doing push ups on the drill pad at Lackland, now, I'm a senior leader at a global multi-nat. That's what education does. Good luck!

Response by GySgt John Hudson made Feb 26 at 2020 7:56 PM

GySgt John Hudson — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:56:11 -0500

I have found that several institutions of higher learning seek out the veterans for the government money and do not provide the degree that the veteran desires or needs to further the veterans career in civilian life. The school that I attended had several professors who kept tuning me away from the field of endeavor that I wanted to get into. Eventually forcing me to accept a degree without the endorsements I needed to become a teacher. The professors also refused to accept me into the masters program which would have allowed me to become a teacher. I guess that having a 3.05 grade average and being honest are not what they want for teachers. It's too late to help[ me , but maybe this information will help fellow veterans in the future.

Response by PVT Royal Terry made Feb 26 at 2020 8:04 PM

PVT Royal Terry — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:04:42 -0500

I like it

Response by GySgt John Hudson made Feb 26 at 2020 8:15 PM

GySgt John Hudson — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:15:47 -0500

Remember that the colleges and universities are mostly for profit institutions and will give only so much credit for military experience and training. Most schools are very selective in what they accept and most of what they accept will be in the lower division credit level. You may find yourself repeating courses that you took in the military because the schools will not accept them. Best to have your military school credits reviewed before enrolling in the institution of higher learning. What the military may say the credits are, the school may say that the do not match their description in the schools credit catalog. Double and triple check everything.

Response by Lindsay Laycoax made Feb 27 at 2020 7:28 AM

Lindsay Laycoax — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 07:28:42 -0500

Southern Illinois University Public Safety Degree programs is an outstanding University and is a well known Military Friendly University. Undergraduate degree with a specialization in FIRE, EMS and EMA. Graduate degree specializing in Homeland Security.

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 8:28 AM

1LT Richard McIlvery — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 08:28:06 -0500

I'd like to add a word of caution to my fellow verterans who are interested in the arts and are considering attending a professional school or university to get a degree or gain experience for a career in the music, film or other associated fields. These areas look like fun and are, indeed, satisfying. As a current professor of the music industry at the Thornton School of Music at the University of Southern California (for 37 years) and an active participant in recording and producing music for records, film and TV (50 years), I fully realize this might not be the way to go.

These fields are already tightly packed and are changing and shirking. Music, especially, doesn't value a degree as a requirement to get through the front door. Schools, however, are excited about having veterans with benefits enroll so that they can "fill seats" and balance their budgets.

Usually professors in these arts programs have little experience in the "real world" and are often only teaching from book that might be out of date.

Col Hampton's advice is accurate. STEM subjects are in demand and can lead to a fruitful career. Just having a degree doesn't guarantee much. Sorry

Response by June Mohr made Feb 27 at 2020 8:55 AM

June Mohr — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 08:55:31 -0500

Park University has a military credit fast app that a military member can see how many credits transfer into Park University. Park is the first school to do this and one of the best Universities for transfer credit. https://military.park.edu/confirm-your-credits/
They also are very good about giving credit for work experience, accept 30 hours from CLEP and DSST testing and have a wide arrange of degrees - Associates, Bachelors and Masters. If you are still in the military it is $250.00 a credit hour and the have a very good accreditation that will transfer to any University. Park also accepts credits in from other University older than 20 years. They are on Military bases across the United States and have online classes since 1997. http://www.park.edu

Confirm Your Credits - Park University Military

Response by PO3 Dwight Nantz made Feb 27 at 2020 9:29 AM

PO3 Dwight Nantz — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:29:40 -0500

I used the Chapter 31 program benefit to obtain a BS degree in Aviation Management. I am 55 and would benefit greatly from a MSW advanced degree to improve my skills and it would provide advancement opportunities in my current career/job. The MSW would also help me prepare for a career change in my retirement years. Although I plan to retire, I want to keep working to give back and help others in economically poor communities with high unemployment with few job opportunities. I also want to continue to feel useful/productive, and feel I have a lot to offer helping hard hit rural communities, teach young people in high school trade skills, and many who have been incarcerated gain a new start with new skills. I have been working with these communities for 13 years in my limited time off time by using vacation time, but there will come a time when I will be able to offer more of my time and I need the skills to be ready. I applied again for Chapter 31 to obtain the MSW and was denied. Although I could appeal, the program flexibility for advanced degrees appear to be too restrictive with little flexibility. Has anyone had success in approval for an advanced degree, or know of another option?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 10:01 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:01:51 -0500

Veterans who served in the 1950’s , after 1955 were screwed out of education benefits

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:07 AM

1LT Richard McIlvery — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:07:26 -0500

A word of caution for my fellow veterans who are interested in entering the arts business, specifically music and film. Both disciplines don't value degrees in these areas. Schools care desperately about Vets with benefits so they can "fill seats" and balance their budgets.

I know this because I am a professor at the Thornton School of Music at the University of Southern California and have been for 37 years. I also had a career as a music, recording engineer and producer.

School is not a bad thing and I think Col Hampton's advice is on the money. STEM areas provide a good shot for a successful career. Film, TV and music (especially music) are shrinking and many from these areas are seeking jobs in schools because there is not enough work in what they are trained to do.

A degree is not required the arts (unless you are an accountant or lawyer). Use your benefits wisely. If you would like to discuss this more, contact me.

[login to see]
https://music.usc.edu/richard-mcilvery/
https://music.usc.edu/recording-the-usc-thornton-symphony/

Richard McIlvery | USC Thornton School of Music

Biography Richard J. McIlvery, professor, is the founder of the Music Industry program. He has been a professional guitarist and studio musician since 1963 and a recording engineer since the early 1970s. As a musician he toured with Waylon Jennings, performed or engineered on soundtracks ofWhy Do Fools Fall In Love,Nothing But Trouble,Howard the Duck,Things

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:10 AM

1LT Richard McIlvery — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:10:07 -0500

Richard McIlvery | USC Thornton School of Music

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:24 AM

1LT Richard McIlvery — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:24:50 -0500

Richard McIlvery | USC Thornton School of Music

Response by SGT Jimi Peoples made Feb 27 at 2020 10:45 AM

SGT Jimi Peoples — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:45:15 -0500

I served from 1991 to 1995. I didn't use my GI Bill and understand that I've lost the benefits because it wasn't used within 10 years of me getting out. Now I read that soldiers are able to gift their GI Bill money to children and spouses. Is there any chance I could help my daughter out with her college with my funds, or are they gone? I actually had to invest in the GI Bill to qualify.

Response by LCpl James Tomlinson made Feb 27 at 2020 1:57 PM

LCpl James Tomlinson — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 13:57:50 -0500

Why are Vietnam Era Veterans facing difficulties with the lack of college education funding and wind up with tuition holders against them? It appears that today's veterans have more benefits! Northern Kentucky University, Highland Heights, Kentucky 41071, [login to see] , exempts veterans from completing studies if they have tuition holders pending. There are Vietnam Era Veterans in their sixties/seventies of age that want a higher education. Are Vietnam Era Veterans neglected because it is too late from that era to think about continuing their education and because there is no educational funding/benefits for these veterans? There appears to be a contradiction with the motto: "Never left behind or forgotten." It appears that the V.A. Director is too involved with politics to be concerned about a past war! Fifty-eight thousand and two-hundred and two died in Vietnam over a ten year era, compared to today's war which has been quite a long time frame! Please give some consideration to all Vietnam Era Veterans. Thank you and good day.

Response by Sgt James Cahill made Feb 27 at 2020 8:30 PM

Sgt James Cahill — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:30:01 -0500

If Rally Point wants to really help increase college grad rates for veterans then force the CA public schools to comply with SB 1071. I helped write this bill and its law now but the public schools are not interested in developing consistent transfer policies to do this. The reason this happens is in one word $$$$. The linkage between the GI Bill and student loans put an "invisible target "on the back of every vet who enrolls in any college. One vet equals approx $135 000 in student loans for non vets. Close the 90-10 loophole that causes all of this.

Response by MSgt James Miller made Feb 28 at 2020 8:54 AM

MSgt James Miller — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 08:54:23 -0500

It's a travesty that many veterans could not take advantage of their GI Bill benefits in the 10-year limit after they completed their military service. Since our country is greying, I believe we are leaving a key resource untapped and languishing, when we could infuse new intellectual energy and power in a waiting community.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Feb 28 at 2020 9:07 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:07:06 -0500

Several vets and I were asked to get off the campus because the VA was not paying for our education any longer. We believed her and left. I look back and think she lied to get vets off her campus.
I went to the court house to apply for a veteran break on my home. The E-6 asked me where I served. When I told him he said "You don't deserve a break" and told me to leave.
The VA officer at the employment office assured me that he would not reveal my vet status to employers otherwise I would not be considered by employers. I told him "I already knew that"
New York State was not vet friendly. Tenn was very friendly...I just never tell anyone that I'm a vet and get along just fine.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 1 at 2020 4:04 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 01 Mar 2020 16:04:02 -0500

I have worked with soldiers to give them the afternoon off to attend college if their work was finished.

Yes college often means specialization, but I like to think we need well rounded people so they can live the good life of morals and a constant thirst for knowledge.

Response by SPC Mike Olivera made Mar 4 at 2020 1:15 PM

SPC Mike Olivera — Wed, 04 Mar 2020 13:15:11 -0500

Unfortunately, VA and Chapter 31 will not help me with my MBA, therefore you should settle for a Bachelors. Any suggestions to beat this are appreciated!

Response by Sgt Denny Dickinson made Mar 8 at 2020 7:07 AM

Sgt Denny Dickinson — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 07:07:17 -0400

Did you know that a New Mexico senior over the age of 65 may now take 10 units or less per semester at $5 plus fees at any public education institution. I am a 78 year old New Mexico vet taking nine units this semester at a local community college. I find school to be very rewarding. It is better than sitting watching TV 24/7. This senior New Mexico vet is inviting every senior vet to go back to school. We do make good role models and mentors. Mr. D.

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 29 at 2020 9:04 PM

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:04:03 -0400

Great article, three out of the last six years of my career as an education counselor as one of my billets I should say. Continuity is the most important factor. Keep it as near to your career field as you can if that's what you want to do when you get out and it will pay huge dividends towards your future when you are a civilian.

Response by 1SG Ken Rossi made May 15 at 2020 2:17 AM

1SG Ken Rossi — Fri, 15 May 2020 02:17:25 -0400

As someone who did both - spent 20 years working on my education while in the military - I have some definite thoughts about this. On top of my personal opinions, one of the degrees I earned was in vocational/educational counseling (I started to be a therapist but decided I didn't want to hear serious problems anymore!). I have spent time as a transition counselor, I was part of the initial ACAP program and started and ran a couple of Job Assistance Centers under that, then transitioned to educational counseling and a military friendly university. During this time I earned a doctorate using Voc Rehab. So, qualifications aside, probably the most important thing you need to to do before you start any education program is really dig inside and try to think about what you really want to do post military or as a result of your education. I worked with so many young soldiers who wanted the degree that helped them make the most money (as indicated here, computer science). Unfortunately, no matter how good that sounds, working with computers and making a lot of money, they ran into some hard barriers - discrete mathematics, physics, etc. and realized they didn't want all that, they wanted to be a programmer, or game designer - so that changes the route. Some found out they didn't really want to deal with all the "science stuff" and then began to look into various fields. I made, the same mistakes - started as an engineering student, didn't like the math, flunked out, got drafted!! Lesson learned. After I decided to stay in, I started back to school, thought I'd be a history teacher, changed my mind and just settled on psychology, took 17 years but got my BS finally, moved on to counseling, decided working with people who had emotional problems wasn't for me and settled on voc ed. Good choice, for me. I got a second MS in HR and OD, and found I could use the same skills I picked up in psychology, working in the Army's OE program to do similar things with organizations - I found my niche and an area that really appealed to me. So, the point here, is it may take you some time to really think about what you want to do, you can take a few courses in general education to get a feeling for different fields, look at what you liked doing in the military (besides being a beady eyed killer) and look for a way to keep doing that. I always felt that folks coming out of long time in the military would be great teachers - lots of flexibility, working with kids can be great and keeps you young, and you are really contributing to society (sort of what you have done in the military). The key point is to determine what turns you on, then if you prepare yourself for that, you will always come off attractive to an employer because you will exude your feelings for the field. So, if STEM turns you on, do STEM, if history turns you on, study history and become a teacher or a researcher, etc. If helping people is your thing, look into social work, psychology, the medical field, whatever. You should find a field that will make you happy. I have been doing what I love (through a couple iterations) for the last 29 years, make enough money to live ok (despite being told I can make much more if I went into industry) because its what I prepared found out about myself that I love to do. Sorry for the long post, job hazzard!

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made May 28 at 2020 7:52 AM

SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall — Thu, 28 May 2020 07:52:35 -0400

Go to a trade school that’s where the money is

Response by PO2 Ian Rodriguez made Aug 19 at 2020 9:56 PM

PO2 Ian Rodriguez — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 21:56:21 -0400

Word of caution for vets choosing foreign schools. The answer to question 1, might be zero, both literally and figuratively.

As a US vet studying in Canada (I’m originally Canadian and came home after my US service ), I had funded everything myself initially, no VA help, no credits, later I went through a process to get my foreign program approved and got some reimbursement. If you are studying abroad, the best assumption to make is the VA will fund nothing.

The foreign school may or may not be willing to get the extra paper work together that VA needs for foreign programs. They have no reason to, your US vet benefit is mostly your problem to work with at a foreign school.

Also, forget transfer credits for military experience and any type of support for veteran students, if you start at a foreign school these days (not just in Canada). It’s doable, but I would recommend being very low-key about your US vet status.

Response by SCPO Rory Stanwood made Aug 20 at 2020 7:27 AM

SCPO Rory Stanwood — Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:27:39 -0400

I am a 60-year-old veteran, I don't have the GI bill but a few years ago I used what I think was something called Chapter 30 or 31, to a community college in Virginia Beach. I was attempting to get an electrician certification. Would I be able to use it again for a local trade school to recertify in welding? I was an Exotic welder on aircraft.

Response by AB Suzette Donaldson made Aug 26 at 2020 8:15 PM

AB Suzette Donaldson — Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:15:11 -0400

are there educational benefits for veterans with a general discharge under honorable conditions?

Response by SP6 Ben Gordolion made Apr 27 at 2022 5:33 AM

SP6 Ben Gordolion — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 05:33:07 -0400

I would recommend focusing on IT, it's easy and fast to learn, and the salary is high. I don't think there is a problem with studying in our times. We have many resources with education papers help here https://uk.edubirdie.com/buy-assignment-online, and our country creates all conditions for veterans' successful education. I think this post is beneficial for future students.

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Top 5 questions the military community has about higher education

Top 5 questions the military community has about higher education

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 3 at 2020 10:20 AM

Response by COL Dana Hampton made Feb 3 at 2020 11:22 AM

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Feb 3 at 2020 1:04 PM

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Feb 3 at 2020 1:40 PM

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Feb 4 at 2020 8:40 PM

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Feb 8 at 2020 5:04 PM

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2020 4:53 PM

Response by SFC Bhrett Sikkema made Feb 11 at 2020 11:50 AM

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 12 at 2020 1:01 AM

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2020 12:56 PM

Response by Jeffrey Hall made Feb 12 at 2020 4:04 PM

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2020 12:28 PM

Response by Sgt Clindon Bagwell made Feb 15 at 2020 9:53 AM

Response by Mark Glassen made Feb 18 at 2020 9:38 PM

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Feb 20 at 2020 7:45 PM

Response by Brian Hock made Feb 23 at 2020 5:47 PM

Response by PO2 David Allender made Feb 25 at 2020 12:19 AM

Response by MSgt Ted C Hall made Feb 26 at 2020 9:17 AM

Response by SP5 Michael Cates made Feb 26 at 2020 6:39 PM

Response by Capt Charles Heckman made Feb 26 at 2020 7:24 PM

Response by MSgt Mike Wehner made Feb 26 at 2020 7:30 PM

Response by GySgt John Hudson made Feb 26 at 2020 7:56 PM

Response by PVT Royal Terry made Feb 26 at 2020 8:04 PM

Response by GySgt John Hudson made Feb 26 at 2020 8:15 PM

Response by Lindsay Laycoax made Feb 27 at 2020 7:28 AM

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 8:28 AM

Response by June Mohr made Feb 27 at 2020 8:55 AM

Response by PO3 Dwight Nantz made Feb 27 at 2020 9:29 AM

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 10:01 AM

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:07 AM

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:10 AM

Response by 1LT Richard McIlvery made Feb 27 at 2020 10:24 AM

Response by SGT Jimi Peoples made Feb 27 at 2020 10:45 AM

Response by LCpl James Tomlinson made Feb 27 at 2020 1:57 PM

Response by Sgt James Cahill made Feb 27 at 2020 8:30 PM

Response by MSgt James Miller made Feb 28 at 2020 8:54 AM

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Feb 28 at 2020 9:07 AM

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 1 at 2020 4:04 PM

Response by SPC Mike Olivera made Mar 4 at 2020 1:15 PM

Response by Sgt Denny Dickinson made Mar 8 at 2020 7:07 AM

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 29 at 2020 9:04 PM

Response by 1SG Ken Rossi made May 15 at 2020 2:17 AM

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made May 28 at 2020 7:52 AM

Response by PO2 Ian Rodriguez made Aug 19 at 2020 9:56 PM

Response by SCPO Rory Stanwood made Aug 20 at 2020 7:27 AM

Response by AB Suzette Donaldson made Aug 26 at 2020 8:15 PM

Response by SP6 Ben Gordolion made Apr 27 at 2022 5:33 AM