Train, Advise, Assist. Is this strategy still viable? Will Afghanistan end up like Iraq?

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:36:27 -0400

Here I am in Afghanistan advising 800 ANA Soldiers to defend their country. I did the same thing in Iraq nine years ago. I would like to say that this concept has worked better here than Iraq, I don't think I could honestly say it has. What's your opinion on the fate of Afghanistan? Have you been an advisor?

http://www.army.mil/article/151893

ANA Military Police Guard Command graduates 80 Afghan military police members

A graduation ceremony was held today for 80 members of the Afghan National Army's Military Police Guard Command (MPGC) who have been training to provide outside-the-wire security for the prison, Bagram Airfield, and the people of Parwan.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jul 8 at 2015 7:41 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:41:16 -0400

CSM Private RallyPoint Member I was a police trainer in Kandahar Province in 2012. If the police are any representation of the security forces for the entire country, IMO they are in a lot of trouble once we leave.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 7:55 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:55:43 -0400

What makes you say that it hasn't work? Why would you contribute the reason CSM Private RallyPoint Member? Is it a lack of willingness on the people's part or what? I'd love to hear your perspective on this.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 8 at 2015 7:59 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 07:59:16 -0400

I think we can train, advise and assist until we are blue in the face but the proof of how well the ANA Soldiers will do will be when they are forced to act without us being there. I think that is what we saw in Iraq. We spent countless hours and money training and gearing them up but when it came time to put into practice; they threw their training, and their gear, into the wind and ran off.

What is the fate of Afghanistan? I would love to sit here and say they will become a great partner able to take the training we provide and run a successful military. Will that be how history remembers them? That I'm not sure about.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 8:18 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 08:18:13 -0400

Iraq is having some difficulties now but things in the south are not that bad. IS will be defeated and they will be stronger for it. It sounds like you would be much better than most to know about the ANA though. We work side by side with LN Eng in Afghanistan. Just finishing up the MOD compound and individually they are just like us. They want to raise their families in peace. But again CSM Private RallyPoint Member your are in a much better position to judge. First you are a very senior enlisted leader with 27 years of successful career Army experience with all the training that goes with that statement. You are embedded with the ANA yet I too hold the hope that we are more successful in Afghanistan than Iraq.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 8:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 08:29:35 -0400

I don't think it will work. There is no institutional memory for working with a standing, national army; too many things continue to boil down to tribe and ethnic group, from what I've heard. If they are breaking that habit, you'd be in a better position to know. I have never served there but have had some interest in the area since they were hosts to the original attackers.

I fear that it will go back to "business as usual" (warlords and illiteracy) as soon as we are gone. I wouldn't be surprised if the Taliban eventually retakes control, albeit in a slightly different form-- they'll be more cautious about who they let in the country, since obviously certain groups and activities draw unwanted attention from powerful people who make life difficult.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jul 8 at 2015 9:00 AM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:00:54 -0400

Yes and No. The strategy is and would be viable, if they were all in, and they had a country infrastructure to build from. They were essentially a failed state when we invaded. That is hard to fix, if they are not all in. We are also not all in, which is another recipe for strategic failure.

Iraq, had a government and rule of law, we just disassembled it after we invaded (bad call in my view). Then we got them to a point they could make it, and things looked promising. But, again I don't think they wanted want we wanted for them, they had too many internal struggles, and once again we left too soon. We are not good at the long haul anymore.

Honestly CSM Private RallyPoint Member I thought we gave Iraq every chance of success, but I neither believed Afghanistan would work. The latter, like Somalia, I thought would be like we were never there, as soon as we left.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jul 8 at 2015 9:07 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:07:11 -0400

I think once we pull all troops out of Afghanistan it will fall just like Iraq! Country is to corrupt.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jul 8 at 2015 9:14 AM

SGT William Howell — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:14:35 -0400

Iraq was a total flop. ISIS is going to get part of the country and they other will be split between the Shias and the Kurds.

Afghanistan is going to be fine. They are a country of warlords. When we leave they will have a limited civil war, then the Taliban will move back in and it will go back to normal. It will have NOTHING to do with the US and any of the money we have dumped into this country.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jul 8 at 2015 9:15 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:15:02 -0400

So, here is my $0.02 (and with the exchange rate, may be worth less than that to many!!)... The Mentorship (Train, Advise, Assist, or COIN, or whatever you want to call it) has GREAT potential. I think that it would work. My opinion is that there are a couple inherent flaws with the program as current politics are involved: 1. It is in association with a war (often not a politician's best friend after it has been going on for a bit). 2. Lack of political, military, and home resolve to complete the mission. 3. Failure to recognize what the mission complete looks like. I feel that in a radicalized nation such as Iraq and Afghanistan, the mission is a 50-75 year mission. We have to have people in place to mentor and guide the leadership, Mentor and guide the military/security forces, Mentor and Guide the EDUCATION SYSTEM. We need to be there for 1-2 generations ensuring the education system is up and running, education to ALL the kids....let these kids grow up, have more kids and educate THESE kids.... Let the "old guard" and "old ideas" along with the "old folks with set ways of thinking" die off. Only with this idea will we have complete and total success. Anything short of that fail as they respect the word of their village elders and will fall back into their old routines. I am not even sure that THIS plan would stand a test of time, but sure stands a better chance then current policies and thought processes.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 10:10 PM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 22:10:28 -0400

Train, advise, assist has plenty of merit as a strategy, but not necessarily in every case. I'd say that in parts of the world where Westphalian style states are not the rule, training, advising, and assisting national armies might not be the best way to go. However, this is more of a matter of national strategy, not military strategy. Therefore, I'll resist going too deep down that rabbit hole.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 7:09 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 07:09:17 -0400

When I was working with the Jordanian Military I found that the region is much a like. I have worked with the Iraqi Military several times in the past as a trainer. We are wasting our time training Skill Level One tasks that are quickly perishable when a training plan is not implemented. Their leadership plays the bigger role in their country's stability but they don't really seem to realize that impact or lack their of is reducing the effectiveness of their military. We should be putting our officers and Senior Enlisted leaders in their ranks and holding them accountable for failing to maintain their level of training. We all know that in Iraq we trained their units and thought they would maintain that level of training. That was not the case. As soon as they finished their training they would have a ceremony and a big show for their leadership. Right after that they would start their decline into complacency. The development of their officers and senior leaders will aid to the stability. Their culture is not like ours. They don't have strong NCOs. They operate off the older British model were officers control just about everything. If they still do that then why are we treating them like our military? After working with a Middle Eastern Country's NCO for several weeks he came to use and told us that he really appreciated the training and that he learned a lot. But he also stated as soon as the US leaves the officers are going to take over and not let their NCOs lead. In that case we need to work on correcting the Officers of that country to utilize their untapped potential of their NCOs. They need to know that the US military is successful only because of our NCOs and not just our Officers. But their pride will lead to their down fall. You will often find minimally trained officers that believe they are know more than everyone else there and that they are the only ones capable of leading soldiers. They are the most trained but their training is poor at best. I was working with an foreign officer on platoon attack. It was so bad they had to restart several times. He tried to tell me that he knew what he was doing and that was when I just about snapped. I asked him when he was in combat. He stated he has never been. So I asked him how much experience he has in attacks then. He still didn't get the point and really only listened to me because his command made him. I doubt he took any of the lessons away with him. They thought their doctrine was better than the US doctrine. Even though they have not been to combat or test it ever.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 9 at 2015 8:30 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 08:30:49 -0400

Iraq needs more than, train, advice, assist stragedy. I am sure coordination is challenging for them. The people, military, and government are too flawed to make a decision to duke it out with Isis.