Transgender Service Members: Serving in Silence

RallyPoint Team — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:56:26 -0400

Despite the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010', transgender people are still banned from serving in the military. To this day, if it is discovered that any service man or woman identifies as a transgender, he or she would be separated from serving. Do you think this is fair? Should transgendered individuals be accepted for military service?

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Oct 22 at 2014 3:02 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:02:54 -0400

Interesting that 90% of them are male to female. Does that say anything about the transgender mentality?

I am all for them serving. If you want to serve and you can do so properly, who am I to say otherwise.

Response by SSG Christopher Ewing made Oct 22 at 2014 3:07 PM

SSG Christopher Ewing — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:07:49 -0400

I have seen many times where a woman has out performed a man in the training, and down range. I was an equal opportunity rep and the military is an equal opportunity employer. I say if you can meet the requirements there should be no reason why not.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 3:39 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:39:50 -0400

Everyone has a place at the table.

Response by SSgt Kevin Hopkins made Oct 22 at 2014 3:51 PM

SSgt Kevin Hopkins — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 15:51:00 -0400

people shouldnt be judged by their sexuality in any case. ive known transgender and gay individuals that are more trust worthy and dependable than alot of people.

Response by A1C Kenneth Crocker made Oct 22 at 2014 4:05 PM

A1C Kenneth Crocker — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:05:45 -0400

no they should not be allowed if your transgender u obviously have mental issues with self identification so sever as to outwardly change the very nature the core of your being and if your that unstable your not needed and all the issues that would stem from this how are you gonna do basic with a guy whos a girl or a girl whos a guy there is enough sexual harassment issues allready

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 4:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:19:45 -0400

I am 50/50 in this debate. My issue would be having to go into a locker room with someone transgendered and have a ding dong flopping around. Would they have their own showers? Living quarters? The questions could become endless.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 22 at 2014 4:19 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:19:58 -0400

Regardless of the statistics, most have an issue with regard to sexuality and not the actual transgender. The Transgender frankly has nothing to do with sexuality as the person may be asexual all together. The future as it seems with Congress looking at re-writing and adjusting UCMJ to more fit the change in attitudes and perspective of current lifestyles, in addition to the same-sex marriage and other things like women in combat arms, it is frankly up to "can you meet the requirements". If qualified and physically able, in addition to mentally fit, then so be it.

Some will argue the mental aspect because they believe that this type of desire to be the opposite sex is not normal. Scientist and researchers have done these studies with children who choose pink and female things in their youth with no regard for sexuality. Seems that some folks are born wishing to be the opposite sex. As with all things government and DoD, we will have to accept these changes as we tend to lead from the front with regard to the perfect society. Everyone has a chance to prove they can do it, serve, regardless of all the race, religion, sexuality, nationality, etc. It is only a matter of time and you must either adapt or move along.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 4:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:29:13 -0400

Well regardless of what I think about it, I'd have to ask myself, if they want to serve their country, who am I am to say no? I'm less than 1% of my country that does.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 4:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:33:49 -0400

This issue will never go away. Might as well embrace the concept and support those fellow brothers and sisters in arms.

Response by Sgt John Ervin made Oct 22 at 2014 4:38 PM

Sgt John Ervin — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 16:38:51 -0400

unfortunately yes it is fair...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 5:21 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:21:58 -0400

I honestly don't care what gender, or former gender someone is as long as they are competent and physically able to do their job. The only thing I think that gender reassignment would affect is muscle mass and body fat percentage, but I am not a doctor so...

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Oct 22 at 2014 5:22 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:22:50 -0400

my personal opinion is this
1.as long as they do not expect special treatment, do not expect the military to pay for any i repeat any treatments, they keep their chosen life style on there own time and do not expect acceptance
know for professional opinion
2. as long as they can do the job keep the standard and show professionalism let them and i will always refer to #1

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Oct 22 at 2014 5:26 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 17:26:18 -0400

The Military Services need to explain what transgender is, to be truthful no one in High School, Military or College, ever explain who these people are, I see them but don't truly know who they are. In 1973 the USMC while deployed to the Phillippines, told us to stay clear of transgender people, that a marine woke up married to one and killed him. Question, do he use the female bathroom or the male, does he marry same sex or is they heterosexual. I can't say its unfair until I know enough about them. What I'm saying is when you they mother birth them, and the Doctor recorded on there birth certificate male or female, what changed from being a baby until and adult, in which there mother and Doctor pronounce there sex. I've always been a man I never get tired of being a man, anything else I would be living a lie.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Oct 22 at 2014 6:00 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:00:31 -0400

We are living in changing times that bring on changes in society, if I agree or disagree with a individual lifestyle. I have to remember the person(s) are human beings, and I can't violate their civil rights in the military or in the civilian world. As long as the person conduct him or herself according to military standards, we can move forward without conflict. This world have mountains of problems constantly building up more than solutions for the problems, like the R&B singing group The Temptations, "This world is a ball of confusion."

Response by SrA Rex Brown made Oct 22 at 2014 6:56 PM

SrA Rex Brown — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:56:47 -0400

being an open minded person I have to ask, what difference does it make really? After all they are a person that is willing to serve their country and just want to do it on their own terms. As long as they do what is expected of them then where is the harm? I know some think that it isn't right and I will probably get a lot of flak for my comments but if we start excluding people for their way of life then why not exclude others? I have heard lately that they are excluding people for having tattoos unless they can not be seen under their uniform. Aren't tattoos just a form of expression? If you take away a lot of what a person is then you are dehumanizing your people which lowers morale. It should not matter if a person is straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender as long as they are to live up to the oath they took upon enlisting and do the job they are trained to do then where is the harm. People will find that if they put a little faith in to others despite their beliefs that they may have a really good friend ship that will last for a life time. I have known many people that are LGBT and straight and most have been decent people but of course you will find those that are plain assholes.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 7:03 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:03:53 -0400

The more we concentrate on our differences, the less we capitalize on our similarities. Every person who is willing and able to serve our country--who can contribute to the greater good--has my support. I'd rather work with an equal opportunity discriminator who simply doesn't like anyone than one who targets someone.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 7:11 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:11:50 -0400

From a personal standpoint I am disgusted by the fact that these people are prohibited from joining our services because of how they choose to identify themselves. I believe that if a person is able to perform their duties to the best of their abilities, maintain a professional demeanor and be that great service member we need in our armed forces then there is absolutely no reason they should be ostracized or kept from duty. Our priority in the military period is to always put the mission first and to put our best members forward, how they choose to identify themselves should not be a question when it comes to who we, as a force put up for deployments, special duties or anything else. That is putting them in a box, it is demoralizing and wrong regardless of how it is viewed.
I just don't understand why we as a military community would tell someone who helps us accomplish our mission that because of how they choose to identify themselves they are unable to continue to be apart of what we do every single day, we are supposed to be a family from what I hear everyday, so why would we turn against our own?

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Oct 22 at 2014 7:18 PM

SFC Stephen Hester — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:18:28 -0400

The military needs quality people. If they are qualified and willing to serve then why not allow them to?

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Oct 22 at 2014 7:20 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:20:23 -0400

It might not be fair per say, but I don't think the current military environment knows how to adapt to accomdate transgender service members. Do they fall under male standards or female standards? It will always be a question...

Response by LCDR Gordon Brown made Oct 22 at 2014 7:58 PM

LCDR Gordon Brown — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 19:58:52 -0400

Political Correctness IS destroying this country.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 8:18 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:18:26 -0400

I think it should be just as irrelevant as the question of being gay. I am of the opinion that gender identification is somewhat fluid in a quite a few people. I am certain that most of us have served, or are serving, with a transgender or bi-gendered individual or two.
I most certainly think this policy is unfair in regards to soldiers trying to enter the service.
Transgendered or bi-gendered people aren't necessarily cross-dressers nor are they transsexuals.
On transsexualism:
ANY service-member who is contemplating sex-reassignment surgery should be medically discharged, where they may proceed with the surgery if they wish.
The sex-reassignment process is long and complicated, emotionally, physically, and financially.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 8:22 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:22:46 -0400

I believe everyone should have the right to serve our country however, I don't believe that homosexual, transgender or female integration into combat units should take place during a time of war. Any such incidents that would detract from the units cohesiveness due to the unacceptance of such personnel or the eminent devide between soldiers who accept or unaccept such personnel should be limited.

Response by CPL Bernie Glasgow made Oct 22 at 2014 9:20 PM

CPL Bernie Glasgow — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 21:20:22 -0400

I say we worry about ISIS and stop worrying about chicks with dicks.. IMHO

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 10:02 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:02:02 -0400

"It's a new military.", If they want to join, why stop them? I don't care who you are or what you look like, if you care enough to want to fight for your country, I don't think anyone should stop you.

Response by PFC Mickey Wellmon made Oct 22 at 2014 10:06 PM

PFC Mickey Wellmon — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:06:47 -0400

There has to be a point in which biology trumps political correctness. There are just way too many questions that would have to be answered. PT standards, living quarters, safety, etc. And the list goes on and on. We aren't talking about working at your neighborhood restaurant here. Standards and rules are necessary. Some may not like it, but we all understand (or should) sacrifice. And in this case, political correctness needs to be sacrificed for the greater good. Even if a transgendered individual can physically and mentally perform his or her duties in accordance with standards, if it is a distraction to the rest of the unit, is it then worth it? And lets not forget of the possible consequences of a transgender service person becoming a POW. I don't even know where to begin to try and understand the ramifications of that, both in theater and at home. The military is at its best when the least amount of politics govern it. My opinion at least.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 10:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 22:37:48 -0400

I'm not concerned serving next to a transgender but honestly I would not under any circumstances want to be in a situation where I had to shower in an open shower with one. I'm sure if military ever allowed T.G. They would have to accommodate latriens and showers.

Response by SGT Patrick Ryan made Oct 22 at 2014 11:04 PM

SGT Patrick Ryan — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 23:04:01 -0400

I guess I'm old school, I can't believe this is even being considered you shouldn't be blurring the rules, if there are questions about a service member you will always have problems! Rules & standards were put in place for a reason, unity! Sometimes it's better not to go some places this is one of them! service members have enough to deal with & should not be forced deal with this!

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 12:29 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:29:31 -0400

People get bogged down in the details of showering, berthings, PT tests, whether TRICARE should pay for treatment, and so on and so forth. These things have been figured out by 18 other countries, so its obviously something we can figure out. Sure it will be a tough and probably awkward time for the entire military, but right now, we should be worried about the people. There could be as many as 15,000 of our brothers and sisters who serve beside us everyday who are living in torment because they can't say anything about how they feel without risking their careers, and in some cases their very lives. Open up transgender service so these people can breathe easy, and then we can tackle each obstacle together as we get to them.

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Oct 23 at 2014 12:29 AM

CPO Rick Felty — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:29:59 -0400

Bullshit....then you have to make special berthing, special showers. Where Do they sleep? In the men's or the women's berthing ? Or shower ?i do not want a vagina taking a shower next to me in community showers, calling herself a man, or a manin a woman's shower showing off his wiener. How,do you address them? The military needs to buckle down and. Be the way it was in the 60x's and before. Tighten up discipline. Instead of calling each other Bob and Sally Jim and Linda, it is Petty Officer. Smith and Seaman Jones. Sgt. Johnson and Private Jones. Enough is enough, !
We need men and women Trustworthy, loyal,and willing to follow orders regardless of personal convictions. To go into battle and not do or try BUT....To do or die like it was in Vietnam. We do not need WHUSSIES, or the time to deal with them. If e are that
Ow in. Personnel then we need to institute a draft for all men and women, legal,or not and you WILL. Serve 4 years none of this 2 year crap and after basic you WILL MANDATORLY go straight to S.E.R.E. SCHOOL to learn how,to survive resist and escape then you will be assigned to a command. All services should do this. We need men and women not, WHUSSIES. And the hell with being politically correct. CONFORM, LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT,OF THE WAY !!!!L

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Oct 23 at 2014 12:36 AM

PO3 John Jeter — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:36:11 -0400

Any discomfort or uneasiness I may or may not feel serving with a transgender person would arise not from what I perceive them to be, but from what they expect me to perceive them to be. I won't regard them as special or exempt. I would regard them as a team member. I would require them to carry their weight, cover my 6, and put up with the normal everyday give and take horseplay everyone else does. I would also require them to expect the same from me. No more, no less. If I don't care for their off-duty life, I have my own to live. 'nuff said says I.......*grin*

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Oct 23 at 2014 12:44 AM

CPO Rick Felty — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:44:14 -0400

What does the marine in Subic Bay PHILIPPINES. That killed a transgender tell you ? Any wake up calls here ? Try being on a 6 7 8 9 month deployment with one. Who is poking who in the fart pipe, Playing licky licky under the blankets ?

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Oct 23 at 2014 12:49 AM

CPO Rick Felty — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 00:49:47 -0400

I was,on one of the first ships in the Navy as the CMAA when women came aboard, eventually we were. In the. Newspaper, and on aJimmy Carters desk in the Oval Office, with a news chopper circling overhead everyday. Just as I predict iced to a Wavewoman. Officer. We kicked. Several of them out of the Navy with BCD's. UMCJ violations and several. Of them to the brig, for homosexuality. The same would happen with these transgendered. If this happens. It will open a bag of worms we do not have time for.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Oct 23 at 2014 4:10 AM

PO1 Rick Serviss — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 04:10:38 -0400

As yourself if you would be comfortable taking a community shower with a transgender like in the barracks and I think you have your answers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 5:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 05:07:22 -0400

I agree with a lot of folks here who are saying that we should let people who want to serve, serve. I do wonder though, if a born male transitions to female, would they fall under male or female standards for physical fitness tests, body fat composition, etc? What about a born female who transitions to male? My concern here would be fairness, making sure that people don't pick and choose which gender norms to follow in specific situations to benefit themselves that others can't take advantage of, or expecting special treatment.

As far as Tricare coverage for transition, well, I guess it depends on whether or not it is "medically necessary." I can't say that I have thought it through enough to form an opinion on that. I do think however that said treatment should not interfere with a SM's ability to do their job and force others to pick up the slack.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Oct 23 at 2014 7:13 AM

Sgt Packy Flickinger — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 07:13:14 -0400

Yes. Transgendered creates a large set of health issues. Medical alone should disqualify.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Oct 23 at 2014 7:45 AM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 07:45:00 -0400

To be honest, As long as the military can support the hormones they need to take to maintain the change I don't care. I am more comfortable with them because I KNOW their preference. I am not against homosexuals in the military but I can not say I feel secure with a roommate who is gay. I blame this on my first roommate after don't ask don't tell repeal. I suspected she was but when they repealed the rule she got out of control. She started telling me how much she liked me and hit on me relentlessly. She would even bring women over and have sex 3 feet from my bed asking me to join! I know this is not typical and not every gay woman would act like that but it truly felt like I was living with a sex crazed man. If I had a transgender roommate.... we could "man watch" together. Just Joking.... but not really. :)

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 8:00 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 08:00:47 -0400

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/10/23/transgender-federal-employee-wins-historic-discrimination-case/?wpisrc=nl_fed&wpmm=1

Transgender federal employee wins historic discrimination case

The Office of Special Counsel said the Army discriminated against a transgender civilian employee.

Response by SSG Ralph Innes made Oct 23 at 2014 10:18 AM

SSG Ralph Innes — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:18:09 -0400

I was 23-24 years of age in an airborne combat arms unit when I was put in a position of having soldiers that I was responsible for. That is a lot of pressure for a young soldier, the same pressure being felt by many in today's world. It was at that point that I realized that I didn't want to have to explain to the parents why their son didn't make it back. It was also at that point that I realized I didn't care what gender, color, ethnic background, sexual orientation, religious background, etc. that you were so long as you afforded my soldiers and myself the best opportunity to accomplish the mission and get back home. I believe anyone that would pick a lesser qualified soldier merely because of gender or sexual orientation is not much of a leader.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 11:33 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:33:07 -0400

The medical care related to transgender people, both psychologically and physically, is immense and expensive. These people are not like Gay or Lesbian people who merely have a sexual orientation. Transgender people have some deeply psychological problems that the military does not need to waste time, effort or money on. I do not believe they have a place in the military and look at them in the same light as I do at a any person with a severely debilitating psychological disorder.
In this instance it is not about a desire to serve the country, it is about cost and psychological status. I have no ill feeling towards transgendered people, I just do not believe they have a place in the military.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Oct 23 at 2014 1:09 PM

MAJ Dallas D. — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:09:18 -0400

So could someone please educate me on with the medical screen done at MEPS how would someone join? I mean wouldn't at the very least the urinalysis come back as the wrong gender?

This is not me taking sides either way, my thoughts on that are simple - it should be decided by those currently serving. I am retired my opinion shouldn't count. I do not have to deal with the ramifications of the decision so I do not feel my opinion matters.

Response by MSG Titus Griffin made Oct 23 at 2014 1:16 PM

MSG Titus Griffin — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:16:37 -0400

Fellow soldier, airman, seaman, marine.......whatever!!! Let's drop "they." Enough said.....let's move on.

Response by SPC Chelsea Fernandez made Oct 23 at 2014 3:11 PM

SPC Chelsea Fernandez — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:11:34 -0400

Who are we to judge who can and cannot join the army???

Response by LCDR Kevin Black made Oct 23 at 2014 3:55 PM

LCDR Kevin Black — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 15:55:36 -0400

Elective surgery? you get to pay for it. As a taxpayer it shouldn't come out of my hide if you want to change teams. This is a wiring problem not a plumbing problem. Before you go screaming about it, it is a privilege to serve, not a right. We disallow fat people and other disabilities as being incompatible with military life. If you can't see well, are color blind for example, you are not eligible for certain jobs. Should we pay for liposuction and boob jobs? Back hair removal? The job of the military is to kill people and break things, the rest of this stuff is about being stylish and PC and paying for someones optional sex change does not advance those goals. You can spew all the twisted propaganda you want but it still remains that by pushing this stuff you don't add a thing to the mission or readiness, in fact the money you drain to deal with someones desires takes away from money to buy equipment, ships, airplanes and tanks.

Response by SGT Chris Thomas made Oct 23 at 2014 9:09 PM

SGT Chris Thomas — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:09:15 -0400

This discussion comes as no surprise to me. When don't ask don't tell was up for debate again, back around 2009-10 I sat in a sensing session hosted by some big whigs from DC. The question about transgender being able to serve was raised. The response THEN was there were medical issues that would most likely mean the answer would be no. Fast forward a couple years and reading previous comments on this venue, it looks likes folks are ready to accept the change. We lived through the removal of don't ask don't tell and the nation has not fallen off the globe. The military adapted to change and moved on doing it's job. With this issue I do not agree. We are not looking at the next civil rights movement despite what the media tries to portray. I understand society has changed it's view on transgenders and that okay. People need to live and earn a wage. For the military, I have always felt it would be a shame to deny someone a chance to serve their country when that is what they really want to do. Pushing out a highly trained professional because of their sexual orientation would be tremendous a shame ESPECIALLY if they did their job well and with honor. I will switch gears here. We have seen numerous cutbacks recently. Money is tight. Training dollars are slim at times. A lot of good people have been told No, they cannot serve their country any longer. People that are highly trained, skilled and have been tested in combat have been sent home packing. So before we open a new category by trying to social engineer a way for Trangender people to wear a uniform, how about leaders brainstorm and find ways to keep our battle proven service members. Find a way to keep our good leadership. Find ways to spare some tax dollars to train and equip our people. We do still have some folks down range. Support them. Don't go out trying to do some social engineering, wasting money trying to study how to implement this notion. You know someone will have to launch a "study" to gather all the "facts" before any changes will be implemented. Then they will spend more money trying to implement whatever training and plans they cook up. This will cost money. Money we don't have. I know. I know. Choose money over being compassionate. I am mean. Right now the "transgender" cause is a non-issue that the Pentagon does not need to wade into. Fight and kill bad guys. Spend our tax dollars to do just that. Not fall into some mess the media and other activist groups are cooking up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 9:57 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 21:57:39 -0400

I'll just leave this here for folks who have did not realize that transgenders have already been serving in the military.

http://tavausa.org/

Transgender American Veterans Association

Advocate for open Trans Military service, Secure benefits for Trans Service Members, Spouses and Family, Continued improvement of Trans well-being through the VA system and Tricare, Advocate for Trans Vet employment

Response by SPC Daniel Edwards made Oct 23 at 2014 11:04 PM

SPC Daniel Edwards — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:04:53 -0400

Screw it. If they can shoot at the enemy, let them say if they are transgender, gay, straight, yellow with pink polka dots for all I care. Either be able to do your job or shut the hell up and get the hell out of the army - that is my idea anyways. Sexual orientation shouldn't be a factor.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 11:25 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:25:22 -0400

I don't see why this is an issue. For the people who are saying that they don't want to be in an open bay shower with someone who is transgender, why does it matter? As though you have never been in an open bay shower before? Or you have never been around a homosexual person before? This is just like the repeal of DADT, it will happen and it won't matter. The only concern I have is for the Standards, I do think that it would be unfair, if a born male says that they are a female, and vice versa, they would not conform to the standards that are set forth by the different services, at least with regards to PT, and Height and Weight.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 11:33 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 23:33:23 -0400

"Becoming" the opposite sex is a PERSONAL choice and should not be funded by the tax payer. After sexual reassignment, hormone replacement therapy is a lifetime event. For SOME the issue of mental stability comes to mind when SOME come to the conclusion they made the wrong decision in the first place.

According the UC San Francisco's, Center of Excellence for Transgender Health, "The patient presenting for initiation of cross-sex hormonal therapy for gender transition may require particular attention. While transition itself often provides great relief from gender dysphoria, it may be a time of heightened environmental stress, presenting challenges with the patient's family, partner, school, and/or place of employment. Referral to a psychotherapist experienced in working with trans people is helpful for many." Those challenges MAY affect the patient's place of employment. I would personally have trouble working with someone who is emotionally unstable and didn't pull their own weight.

http://www.transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=protocol-mental-health

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2776090/Transsexual-10-000-surgery-NHS-wants-man-again.html

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 24 at 2014 12:30 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 00:30:33 -0400

It is always a bad question when discussing serving in the military and the word 'fair' is brought into the question. It is not and never should be about what is fair, it is what is best for the service and the Nation's defense. Should asthmatics, the blind, felons, and those challenged by the ASVAB be allowed to serve? Why have standards at all?

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Oct 24 at 2014 1:26 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 01:26:47 -0400

I support troops that want to serve. Just so long as they salute a 1LT they should be fine.
In all seriousness, the only issue I see is shower/ latrine usage. We had one shower tent for the base on one of my deployments, we solved the issue by assigning shower usage times. I am sure a set up like that could be arranged when the need arises and cause no further need for procurement of facilities. Modesty of those not choosing/ born to this life style should be considered. Accepting one group does not mean the modesty of another group is discarded.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Oct 24 at 2014 4:23 AM

Sgt Daniel V. — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 04:23:39 -0400

Unfortunately, Transgender individuals can come with a boatload of questions such as the berthing, hygene and Physical standards issues. There may be a time at which these issues are no longer controversial but until then it is in the best interest of Transgender individuals to remain unemployable by the military. I do believe there could be a concerted effort to accomodate anyone and everyone to be able to serve but what effect would it have on budgets, mission readiness and current standards? How would accomodation affect the military as a whole financially and fundamentaly? Sorry to answer with more questions but they are what came to mind.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 10:04 AM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 10:04:51 -0400

The military is the only true meritocracy left. I am concerned with the content of a soldier's character more than the identification of their gender or orientation. That is not my issue to bother with. If this soldier can shoot, move, communicate and carry my injured frame out of harms way - I am content.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Oct 24 at 2014 12:11 PM

Sgt Jennifer Mohler — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:11:46 -0400

Oh wow, i didn't know that transgendered people still can't serve. I find that rather shameful.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 12:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:19:43 -0400

I have always been of the mindset that I don't care if you are Man, Woman, Black, Green, Iridescent, Gay, Straight, Bi, Tri, or a dendrophiliac, so long as you can do the job, do it right, and don't hurt anybody then there is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:19:13 -0400

This is not a civil rights issue. We the Armed Forces of the United States of America discriminate, we do it all the time. If you cannot complete a PT test, your out. If you continue to be overweight, your out. If you show disrespect for authority, your out. The same goes for enlistment. If you have disqualifying injuries, you don't enlist. If you are a felon, you don't enlist. If you have been treated for ADHD, you don't enlist. If you have been treated for a mental illness, you don't enlist. Transgender is simply another dis-qualifier. There are many god reasons for this which your mental health professional can go into detail for you.

Response by CPO Rick Felty made Oct 24 at 2014 9:24 PM

CPO Rick Felty — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:24:02 -0400

Don't get pissed...re enlist GunnyI wanna be, like I said promoted before qualified, either. You like transgender, or you want some fart pipe on deployment. Lol. Lol just like a Gun y. Lol lol

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 9:38 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:38:56 -0400

All who care to serve should be free to, regardless of race, sex, or religion.

I draw a line when people want to "alter" the service to suit how they want to live, i.e. making weed legal for people in the service. The things that are, and are not, legal for many service members are there for a reason.

So does being transgender effect how you work? No. Let them serve!

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Oct 25 at 2014 3:08 AM

MGySgt Jerry Suarez — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 03:08:50 -0400

Transgender is not a standard, scoring a certain score on the ASVAB, x amount of drug use a certain height or weight etc those are standards being a make or female is not. All I say is whomever wants to serve and is qualied be allowed to do so but expect no special treatment ie special shower times, sleeping quarters etc u wanna serve then serve but serve as the gender you chose but with no special expectations

Jerry V Suarez
MGySgt/USMC Retired

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 8:09 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:09:22 -0400

OKAY my understanding is that a woman who has "transitioned" to being man (or the man who has gone the opp direction) actually really wants you and I to go along with the decision. So if they bring behavior in line with the external appearance why then should their service be anything other than "silent"??

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 8:15 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:15:39 -0400

I have lived in one of Texas' most pro-gay big city metro areas. I have worked in a profession with a high number of LGBT members. I profess a faith which has a long tradition of upholding conventional normal sexual morality proclaimed in the Bible from cover to cover.
If anyone wants to serve and meets all the qualifications then let him/her /it.
A man who has made full transition to being female will take a PT test or train for combatives against other non-trans females. Will the transwoman have inherent strength lacking in the ordinary from birth women? Will that create trouble? Resentment?
In general I think if someone is fully committed to living as this or that irrespective of the junk he or she had or lacked at birth, then let them!
What most members will likely dislike will be the inevitable army wide LGBT month celebrating another hyphenated subgroup, complete with mandatory briefings, guest speakers at luncheons etc.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 9:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:22:50 -0400

If a male self identifies as a female (or the other way around) but has not has not undergone hormone treatment or medical treatment, I am all for having them serve. However once you have started the procedure than it is a issue about treatment, if you take the hormones to make yourself a "women" or a "man" you have to continue to take them, and if you are in a deployed environment you have to still ship/give them that treatment where instead other meds that would be used for combat/non-combat injuries.

Response by SSG Adrian Ducker made Oct 25 at 2014 10:44 AM

SSG Adrian Ducker — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 10:44:38 -0400

If we allow people who are transgender to serve it needs to be because the Pentagon decided that it will not hinder our ability to do our warfighting mission and not to satisfy political or special interest group demands.

I won't pretend that I am an expert on all subjects dealing with transgendered people, but I am aware that depending on the person, some of them may require hormones on a constant basis, which would be an issue in a combat zone if supply lines are cut and they run out or have their on-hand supply damaged. Obviously it isn't everybody, but it looks like the way the military is tackling the issue is similar to their policy on people with asthma. Some people with asthma can function without constant medication and could probably go to a combat environment but they are banned because of the rest who can't.

I think one of the biggest issues the movement to allow transgendered men and women to serve openly has right now is the fact that the most famous transgendered service member in U.S. history is sitting in Leavenworth right now for leaking classified information to a foreign anti-secrecy website. Anybody who is against letting people who are transgender serve will most likely bring Manning's actions up as a reason not to let them serve.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 25 at 2014 1:00 PM

SSG Tim Everett — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:00:10 -0400

I'm sure that would also raise proper, logical questions like "Are they restricted from certain MOSes [valid until women can join the infantry]?" and other things like which PT standard, which latrine, etc. But I think the military can figure out acceptable answers.

I joined the Army in the mid-90s, when they could apparently still ask "Are you a communist?" and "are you a homosexual?" I knew a lot of gay soldiers, and not only was I completely okay with it, I often found that they were some of the most outstanding soldiers I'd ever met.

I've never met a transgender soldier, but I have met and befriended a few transgender people, both MtF and FtM. I say, if they're enthusiastic about serving their country, and they'll grab a weapon, hop in a foxhole, and put the meat before the metal, LET THEM. Who gives a crap what gender they want to be?

Response by SPC Kel Rowland made Oct 25 at 2014 1:11 PM

SPC Kel Rowland — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 13:11:42 -0400

I wouldn't mind seeing Bailey Jay in a uniform... Just saying

Response by SSgt Nicole Biscoe made Oct 26 at 2014 7:04 AM

SSgt Nicole Biscoe — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 07:04:23 -0400

I'm transgendered and I have been enlisted for over 11 1/2 years now. I'm getting out in April because I cannot in good faith put my hand up to the oath while completely lying to myself about who I am. It's not fair to me and it's not fair to our nation. I only hope that things will someday change and I plan on working hard to help with this any way I can.

Response by SSgt Nicole Biscoe made Oct 26 at 2014 7:34 AM

SSgt Nicole Biscoe — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 07:34:09 -0400

Wow... after reading the comments on this forum, I have come to realize how disappointing our military really is. Are people really that worried about serving with another American because they're transgendered? If that's the case, then yes our military really has gone down hill... and not because of allowing LGBT people to serve openly, but because the military can't see past a 1920's mentality. Truly sad and I'm glad that I'm getting out and I'll be able to finally live my life for me. I will miss the comrade but I will not miss being discriminated against.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Oct 26 at 2014 3:52 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:52:37 -0400

http://www.stripes.com/news/report-finds-army-discriminated-against-transgender-civilian-employee-1.310017

Report finds Army discriminated against transgender civilian employee

Tamara Lusardi, a transgender Army civilian who was restricted from using a female bathroom in the workplace and was called “sir” by colleagues, faced repeated instances of discrimination and humiliation at the hands of the Department of the Army, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel announced Thursday in a ruling that is being hailed as a landmark decision.

Response by CH (MAJ) Dale Forrester made Oct 26 at 2014 4:07 PM

CH (MAJ) Dale Forrester — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 16:07:21 -0400

We have far too many mentally-ill in uniform as it is. We do not need to be actively recruiting them. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. I'm sorry for those who suffer from it but I have no need or desire to enter into their fantasies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 10:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 22:31:21 -0400

BLUF
It's fair. If your mental state is such that you think you are a different gender than you actually are... you should not me able to make decisions that could possibly negatively affect the security of the nation.

"Transgender" is a term coined to make "gender dysphoria", a mental disorder, sound nicer. Gender dysphoriacs need counseling, not acceptance. By accepting them and attempting to somehow "normalize" their aberrant behavior, you are enabling the disorder and ultimately harming them.

They aren't "born that way" either.

Response by SPC Raymond Fee made Oct 27 at 2014 1:00 AM

SPC Raymond Fee — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 01:00:10 -0400

First I want to say that if there are that many transgendered soldiers serving in silence then someone is not doing their job correctly. Does anyone here remember their MEPS experience? I do. How is it possible to present your birth certificate and then go through MEPS without that being discovered? Next I would lie to say that the military in general tends to hold in morals. What part of being transgendered is morally ok? call me old fashioned but I believe that it's wrong. Put morals aside, if transgendered soldiers were allowed to be openly transgendered I believe that it may be a difficult adjustment for a good number of other soldiers in the same unit ultimately affecting overall unit readiness and unit cohesion. Especially the ones required to live in close quarters with said individual. Then the Army would have to institute new regulations for latrines, policy's for room assignments in the barracks, possibly MOS restrictions based on gender, etc. Why should the Army have to endure so much change just to make a small group of people happy by being what that small group considers to politically correct? The military should continue to maintain a high standard and worry about things more important than some peoples feelings.

Response by CPO William E. Mahoney made Oct 27 at 2014 7:55 AM

CPO William E. Mahoney — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 07:55:27 -0400

Why should it matter as long as they can do their job this shouldn't be an issue.

Response by PO1 Jackson Plant made Oct 27 at 2014 12:11 PM

PO1 Jackson Plant — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:11:33 -0400

No, serving is not a right and regardless what this dimwit of a Potus said this is against good order and discipline. You are male or female not what you want to be and it will cause caose to have to accommodate them!

Response by SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. made Oct 27 at 2014 12:56 PM

SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:56:25 -0400

My view is this. Im an equal opportunist. If you are willing to serve and have something to offer, willing to do your job to the best of your ability, contribute, go in the line of fire knowing what can happen, take care of yourself and your peers, take pride in what you do and not be a distraction, then I dont care what race, color, creed, gender, religion, sexual preferance, marital preference, heterosexual or homosexual you have/are. I'll serve with you right by your side. There are plenty of people serving filled with hate and closed mindedness or dont do anything but collect a paycheck wasting space. The only thing I ask is not to push your views, religion ,prefereces etc. on those not interested. Thats where the disconnect, discomfort, and misguided hatred comes in.
Times are changing my friends. If we have to adjust fire, so ve it but the missions continue.
Just my 2 bits.

Response by SGT Jason Anderson made Oct 27 at 2014 7:29 PM

SGT Jason Anderson — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:29:04 -0400

Fair or not is not really the issue.

If a perfectly capable servicething can serve, and serve well - let them. But, this does not give special privilege to allow them to flaunt this position. There should be no outward display of this, as it is not allowed for anyone else regardless of sexual orientation or association.

There were plenty of shitbag straight, sologender soldiers I would have gladly swapped out for someone who could do the job well and want to do it.

And if all of this is a distraction, then the issue is not these people we are considering to allow or not - the issue is with the rest of us...

Response by PO1 John Y. made Oct 27 at 2014 8:09 PM

PO1 John Y. — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:09:02 -0400

Are we seriously getting to a point where we won't have any lines we won't cross?! I really don't care how much flak I'll get for this, but I still don't believe in homosexuals serving at all, let alone openly. Besides my personal belief that it is wrong, it isn't socially acceptable in an environment that has been riddled with sexual harassment, political correctness, and an attempt to be a kinder, gentler military. Is it socially acceptable for a heterosexual male to take a shower with heterosexual females? No. So, why should it be acceptable for homosexuals to shower and berth with people of the gender they sexual prefer. I'm sorry you feel you were born that way but so were people with mental disorders and we don't let them in. No, I'm not homophobic (to indicate I'm afraid of gay people), I just believe it is not morally right nor natural. As for transgender people, (my understanding, people who believe they were born the wrong sex) whether it be hormonal, psychological, or any other -al we don't need another element of confusion in the mix. There's enough as it is.

There's my 2+ cents...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 8:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 20:45:41 -0400

At the risk of offending a few I didn't know there were any, outside those who are good at hiding it. Secondly, it is not my business unless there are quotas for certain groups and then forcing others to accept. I think if you mean acceptance to be acquiescing to being respectful, I am good with that.

I know for a fact there are some troops that do not like African Americans and while distasteful and stupid, I have to accept that they (racists) are there. This thing about respect and acceptance is in time feelings tend to change but virtue of nothing else than knowing people and who they are.

But for any abuse of any person within certain limits (abusers of any kind) is always unacceptable. Even PDAs among heterosexuals is rude when done to excess and I hope these new ideas are not exploited. In the service we need unity and cohesiveness rather than politically correct dictates that emanate from LGBT groups and their ilk. Ilk is not a disparaging comment.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 11:10 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:10:25 -0400

Seriously if I see another one of these threads about people bitching because of their orientation, or their specific lifestyle, I am going to lose it.

I DON T CARE. IF you can do your damn job, and perform to the standard and are capable just like the supposed rest of us, then quit your whining, do your damn job, shut up and go home. I don t care, no one else cares, and quite frankly, look what happened?

One of the coolest people in my book, a Navy SEAL, went and had a sex change. Do I think any less or differently of said person? NO. They served honorably. If there are people out there who think its weird for transgendered people to serve, then they have another think coming.

NOW, on the flip side, if they try and play the supposed male or female card, or TG card, then along come the counseling statements. I will build a papertrail and when it comes time to chapter their happy ass out of the military, then I have documents to prove why I am doing so.

Bottom line: they serve, they serve to standard, and help their battle buddy, sailors, Marines, and airmen out, then cool. That s all I have to say about that.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 3:14 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 03:14:43 -0400

A lot of the posts here make this seem so simple. All the DoD would have to do is recognize them as acceptable for service, lift the ban, and everyone's happy. It's never that simple.

There's a huge difference between transgender and transsexual. Would transgender men be held to female standards with regard to uniform/physical standards? If so, why wouldn't a man want to claim he's a female? Instant perfect APFT score, he can grow his hair longer, whatever else. If only transsexual men would be held to female standards, would the Army pay for gender reassignment?

If no one else here has the guts to say it, I will- do we really want to go down this rabbit hole?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 28 at 2014 6:14 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 06:14:31 -0400

The military likes things in black and white and IMHO there are too many shades of gray in the transgender issue. A lot of the posts here touch on the multitude of questions that are out there. At this point, IMHO acceptance means the military will have to make decisions on these individuals' behalf as to how and where they fit in and that will not come without controversy.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 9:02 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:02:24 -0400

Do I think that it is fair? No, not really.

Should transgendered individuals be accepted for military service? However wrong it may or may not be, it is currently the policy that they cannot serve. But, they absolutely should be allowed to as long as they can meet service standards for job performance etc.

If they want to serve, I say let them.

Response by A1C Kenneth Crocker made Oct 28 at 2014 1:58 PM

A1C Kenneth Crocker — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:58:56 -0400

i still dont see why we should let them serve i was sent home for admitting i smoked weed back in high school i was sent home for that a year after i told them and i did the job perfect i was very professional and on point allways now if it were as simple as can these people do the job id still be in thats not how the world works its truely disapointing to see u people support this immoral thing how about u guys support your fellow soldiers airmen sailors and marines before you support others if we did that then our forces would be a much better community instead people only ever feel safe supporting something or someone from behind a keybored

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 28 at 2014 1:59 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:59:24 -0400

*I've edited my comment as my previous remarks could have been perceived as indifferent or derogatory. Not my intent.

I don't see this as a question of sexual orientation I see it as one of personal preference as to how a transgender individual seek to resolve their gender identity. Therapy, cross dressing, Hormones, or surgery are all possible approaches. I feel that there would currently need to be a limbo status on these individuals and how this would integrate into today's military is a good question. Until females are allowed into combat roles I don't see this happening.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 2:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:31:41 -0400

I have no issue with people doing their duty and service to their country. However, BLUF: I don't care who you are or what your beliefs or special interest are. If you join, then you do so of your own free will understanding that you aren't special, you don't deserve anything more or less than anyone else and you abide by and maintain the standard. I do not feel the military (since everyone sacrifices some of what they think or believe in order to serve) is the place to worry about whether you are gay, straight, bi, trans, or any damn thing else. Personal life is just that, personal, leave it at home and come to work like everyone else, toe the line, and do your damn jobs. There are a few things I do feel strongly about in regards to this topic. #1 The government should never have to "foot" for you to have a kickstand "added" or have it removed anymore than I feel the government should "foot" the bill for rhinoplasty or breast enlargement/reduction unless it is medically necessary. Last I checked having your "kickstand" removed or added is not a medical necessity. #2 The government should never have to pay for your hormone replacement treatments, Just as I do not expect them to pay for Rogaine for hair replacement. #3 Do not expect any special concessions for your choices, I don't expect anything for being heterosexual, bald, or having a big nose.
Largest issues I can see are as follows, What latrine do you use without making everyone who is not transgender be uncomfortable with you using the latrine with them? Does this mean we now have to have a transgender latrine to ensure that no one has an issue with it? Same thing for showers with the same issues and no I personally would never be comfortable with someone who was born the opposite sex using the same latrine or shower as I, just as I am certain a great many other people feel. PT test, Whose standards do you abide by now? A person who grew up as a man will be built vastly different than someone who grew up as a female. Do we hold transgender females to the male standard and transgender males to the female standard or vice versa? To automatically group a man who became a "woman" to the female standard or grouping a female who became "male" to the male standard is ludicrous.
There are a great many issues to examine long before placing something like this into effect. This is something that should not receive approval until all aspects are not only examined but some way of addressing them is in place and does not in any way compromise our ability to conduct the mission which overall is more important than anyone's view point.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 3:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:23:05 -0400

It's just a culture shock for all these years that you share your most intimate thoughts and feelings with the men and women beside you, its hard not to get your "personal" views involved. However, they showed us all in boot camp that we can all serve together, regardless of any adversity. The only thing that mattered was accomplishment...accomplishment together, whatever the cost; the only people castrated were those that did not have the heart and strength to continue. Because no one in boot camp had the need to talk about anything other than self-improvement and unit cohesion; these are the same things that are focused on in the Marine Corps with our Leadership Skills and developments.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 3:42 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:42:12 -0400

The problem with this whole issue is that the military is no place to test social theory or make experiments at the expense of readiness, unit cohesion, and accomplishment of the mission. Anytime any one of these things are in danger of being compromised or diminished, we place the effectiveness of our military in question and the defense of our nation in a weekend state. The military is no cross section of the civilian world and the freedoms and social groups that civilians enjoy often do not work well inside the regimented, authoritative, and assimilated environment that is in place in the military to ensure loyalty, discipline, and honor among our ranks. It is pure and simple...a service members sexual orientation has no place in our profession and those who would thrust their preference to the forefront of who they are are often self absorbed, self centered, and inherently divisive, with some exception of course. These are not traits that I want my soldiers to exhibit and their sexual activities and their gender are of no importance to me so long as they do not make issue of either and they accomplish the mission. Once a soldier does cause a problem, be they heterosexual, homosexual, or other, then they are a like Cancer that must be removed lest they poison others around them. I hold that same sentiment for those who commit criminal acts or decide to take drugs while serving and want them removed from service just as quickly. I do not care what a soldiers sexual orientation is and it should not be a condition of service or exclusion. However, when it does become an issue that requires action, that soldier should be removed for failure to adapt, period. There are plenty of bigger, more important issues to deal with in todays military.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 4:52 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:52:22 -0400

I think its very sad that some people have to hide who they are because they want to serve their country. I think its also sad that the very military who defends freedom and frees others from oppression continues to oppress some of those who serve it.

Response by PO1 Andrew White made Oct 28 at 2014 5:04 PM

PO1 Andrew White — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 17:04:56 -0400

15,500??? That number seems a bit inflated. Honestly. I mean, if you're a guy who likes to slip on a pair of pantyhose on the weekends then fine...but that does not make you "transgendered".

Response by CPT Jason Torpy made Oct 28 at 2014 6:17 PM

CPT Jason Torpy — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:17:52 -0400

Hopefully the US military will follow lots and lots of other militaries who have found it pretty simple to accommodate gender diversity and even gender changes. Having the wrong gender is a complicated mental and physical issue, but it's not worse than a lot of the conditions covered under military medical insurance. And the benefit is a happy and healthy service member.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 7:07 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:07:41 -0400

Let me rephrase: I'd say that would get too confusing if they had a sex reassignment surgery.
If they keep their gender and just dress up like the opposite sex, I won't have a problem with that.

Response by TSgt Terry Hudson made Oct 28 at 2014 8:06 PM

TSgt Terry Hudson — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 20:06:04 -0400

Honestly I don't what gender, sexuality, race, creed, color, or none of that. To me the real question is...CAN YOU GET THE JOB DONE. And that should be every leaders question if you ask me.

So no I don't think its fair. You're denying someone the chance to server basically because of physical presentation instead qualification. Unless being transgendered is some how stopping them from getting the job done why are they being denied the opportunity?

Don't sit here and tell me its because members would feel uncomfortable. I hear it all the time, how the US military is a big melting of Americans of every religion, race, and all that. C'mon ppl...like I said....the question should be CAN YOU GET THE JOB DONE!

Response by Cpl Sabrina L. made Oct 28 at 2014 9:02 PM

Cpl Sabrina L. — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:02:58 -0400

How many heterosexuals are serving in silence because anything they say is wrong?

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 9:56 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 21:56:25 -0400

Many people are saying that transgender people should get out of the military to deal with their gender identity. Why not have anyone who is uncomfortable with transgender people get out?

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 3:57 AM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 03:57:19 -0400

Great comments from each of you.
Definitely poses a grand dilemma. However if I may chime in.
1. This is still an all Volunteer Force. Amen to that....for now.
2. There is a CLEAR DELINEATION...(cross-dressers are not transgender)
3. It is not about good order and discipline. It is about mission readiness. It costs money to do that type of surgery...and the LGBT community is catching on quickly to the many free perks we receive in the military.
4. This is a budget constrained environment.
5. The basis of the argument here is about allowing them to serve.
6. Uncle Sam is just NOT going to pay for a surgery that requires almost two years to complete...with unknown results. That is equivalent of HALF a service enlistment or commissioned service obligation.
7. Personal feelings have to take the back seat. The good of the WHOLE is what is at stake here, not the wants of the few.
9. We all have the right to life, liberty and happiness, but you also have an OBLIGATION to conform to standards regardless of your personal issues.
Many have come and gone who were in the same boat. They got out AFTER serving their time with honor and distinction.... NOT RECKLESSNESS and INSUBORDINATION, because they didn't get their way....like the Burger King commercial.
In short....Serve because you are committed to serving our nation and her people...not because you want something out of it for your personal gain or to fight a political agenda.
YES...the GOOD OLE BOYS are still around, they will always be there. It is never going to change, because it is in plain and simple fact...that it is the good ole boys that make the hard decisions on the defense of the nation and not about someone's personal...and I reiterate...PERSONAL lifestyle choice.

Now get back to work!!

Response by 1LT David Moeglein made Oct 29 at 2014 4:15 AM

1LT David Moeglein — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 04:15:22 -0400

I have been pondering this complex topic for a while. I have mixed feelings that I will try to sort out with you. I feel the tension that exists between my education in natural philosophy, nursing, and social work on one hand, and experience of being a soldier, a husband, and a father on the other. I do not wish to take sides, but wish to thoughtfully explore what is. I encourage your respectful feedback. I will strive to do the same.

I don't know that the American Psychiatric Association (APA), or American Medical Association is qualified to be the font of truth and wisdom. However, they do like to play God. =) Their decisions are often times very political, as are those that are arrived at while making sausage on Capitol Hill. The APA and the AMA certainly have market share to be gained in creating a special category of people and then being the only ones who can successfully manage the biological aspects of their care.

Having worked with young male sex offenders who were given estrogen to control their urge to sexually act out, I witnessed first hand that those who chose this treatment quickly developed bone densities equivalent to those of senior citizens. I do not think that hormone treatments for service members is a good idea for this reason. I am not sure that the military is a good place to begin this experiment, given the high stakes, and demanding lifestyle.

Alternatively, a number of gender assignment surgeries are performed on newborn children. There is a statistically significant number of children that are born and not clearly being male or female. If a decision is poorly made by helping professionals for the child, should the child be punished for this when they grow up and want to serve in the military? Would you want this for your children?

I don't like the terms straight, gay, transgender, etc. I believe them to be objectifying terms. They label people and put them in a category that stifles maturation, spiritual growth, personal exploration and responsibility. I am not interested in creating yet another hyphenated American minority group that seeks entitlements, and adds to the further decay of the fabric of American society.

Should transgendered personnel be allowed to serve in military, an unintended consequence of such a policy change may be a siphoning of resources away from the children in families that need them. When I was a married, lower enlisted soldier, and father; sergeants with families qualified for food stamps. My wife was yelled at when we tried to get financial help from an agency that I believe was called Army Community Services (ACS). What I am trying to say is that resources for service members and their families are limited. Creating another group of people to compete for these already scant resources may not be in the best interest of the children of service members.

I know of a number of transgendered people that already have kids. Would allowing potential transgendered service members into the military create families, couples, or another variation of single life?

I sense that people are afraid of another group of potential service members not being able to control sexually compulsive behavior. If service members are able to act professionally, respectfully and not compulsively, then I say let them serve. However, those who identify as being transgendered should also know that the maximum penalty for rape under UCMJ is the death penalty. This information should also be given to all other service members as well, so as to not single out any particular group.

Ultimately the decision of whether or not to have transgendered service members in the military is a decision for Capitol Hill and the POTUS. As service members we faithfully execute the orders that are handed down, and support our fellow service members in doing so.

What are your thoughts?

Response by SMSgt Kevin Connair made Oct 29 at 2014 9:26 AM

SMSgt Kevin Connair — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 09:26:59 -0400

The military is not a social club, university, or just another employer. It's purpose is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and execute the national military policy, in many cases, by killing people and breaking things. One can be denied entry into the service for just being overweight, too tall, too short, underweight, bad teeth, psychological conditions, excessive tattoos, body mutilations, etc.. Transgender individuals still have the original DNA basis which identifies the individual as a male or female. Taking hormone supplements and significantly altering your appearance via surgery can create conditions which the military finds unfitting for admission into the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 12:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:21:29 -0400

I see a lot of personal opinions and views on transgenders as a whole. One's personal view on if it is right, wrong, good, or bad is invalid. What matters is how it will impact the DoD, unit morale and discipline, and the war fighter on the ground. I would encourage people to look up Kristen Beck who retired with over 20 years of service in units including Seal Team 6 / DEVGRU. I don't see anyone who has a negative "personal" opinion on a transgenders lifestyle being on par with this guy who was a tier 1 operator. Until then as long as the afore mentioned is not degraded or compromised at all then I say why not?

Response by SPC Kel Rowland made Oct 29 at 2014 3:53 PM

SPC Kel Rowland — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:53:38 -0400

Guess who's back, back again...

Response by PO3 Anthony Purkapile made Oct 29 at 2014 4:41 PM

PO3 Anthony Purkapile — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:41:49 -0400

i look at it this way as long as they can do the job they are told to do who cares what sexuality they are. that is their own personal choice. i served on subs and it went co ed after i got out do i think it going to work with out a hitch no but if i was still in i would welcome the challenge on my boat

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 9:17 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 21:17:28 -0400

In response to the Navy Midshipman:

With full understanding that the Naval Academy is not yet the true glimpse of the US Military in all its forms (socio, political, general operational, conventional, special) . You give a very "Harvardian" answer. You made valid points to a moot discussion.

when Harry met Sally, June got screwed because she only likes farm boys. King Leonidas only took 300 Soldiers instead of 3000...oh well...he should have appeased the GODs instead because they got their feelings hurt.

It is fair to say that other nations are doing this and have documentation to prove the point. BUT the one question you need to ALWAYS ask yourself:

ARE THEY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

This question in itself means that it is NOT those countries sending military projection around the globe 12 months out of the year. It is NOT those countries fighting a War in the Middle East since long before you were born. It is NOT those countries that have a society and a Country that is consistently being targeted for attack by enemies of the state. It is NOT those countries that provide a long and steady paycheck to countries in need of assistance. It is NOT those countries that have the Premier Fighting Force in the World...I say again...IN THE WORLD.

there is NO Army out there in the globe that can outmatch or defeat our military force in open combat or special operations....We are the SHIT...hands down. There is a Clear and Distinct Reason for that...and it can be summarized in one statement: ADHERENCE to the ESTABLISHED STANDARDS.

I am glad that you are pursuing a military career and I commend you for that, but at this point, you need to put your personal feelings aside about "non-issues" and look at the BIG picture about military service and our Nation's defense.

just some food for thought.

Response by SSgt Nicole Biscoe made Oct 30 at 2014 7:46 AM

SSgt Nicole Biscoe — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 07:46:26 -0400

Just thought I'd share this with everyone on here... SPC Raymond Fee responded with one of the rudest and most unprofessional comments that I have seen so far on this forum. Referring to someone as "it" or "tranny" only shows how immature, unprofessional and uneducated you really are. While I respect others' opinions on the matter, please remember to look over your comment before posting.

Response by Sgt Kyle Danning made Oct 30 at 2014 10:34 AM

Sgt Kyle Danning — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 10:34:00 -0400

If they meet the physical and mental requirements, then they should have the choice to fight for their country. Nothing changed when 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010' came into effect, why should this be any different?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 4:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:50:12 -0400

In regards to transgender individuals being disqualified for serving in the military, I personally feel that this issue should have never been an issue in the first place. This should be handled the same way as just about any other person serving in the military, be it a male, female, gay or straight. A person's ability to do their job has nothing to do with how they identify themselves but of how they conduct themselves. If a person is physically and mentally capable of meeting all the specified requirements for a particular MOS, then they qualify for that MOS. I have served with Soldiers who were openly gay in combat situations and they perform as well as a Soldier who is straight. Know why? Because they are SOLDIERS. Orientation or Identity of an individual will only affect that person so much, but it is the strength of character and perseverance that will make that person a true Soldier. So in response to the question, I feel that Transgender individuals should NOT be disqualified solely for identifying as they do. They should be given all the same rights and opportunities that straight and gay Soldiers are afforded. We fight and some of us DIE in order to protect the rights of every single American. Why then are we as these protectors limiting the rights of those who want to support and defend those rights with Honor?

Response by 1SG Pete Marcell made Oct 30 at 2014 6:42 PM

1SG Pete Marcell — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 18:42:59 -0400

I've always told my Soldiers, "I don't care if you're purple with pink poka dots. We all wear the same uniform that says US Army. My expectation is that YOU show up on time and ready to perform. If you do not we will have issues."

Response by 1LT David Moeglein made Oct 31 at 2014 12:09 PM

1LT David Moeglein — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 12:09:12 -0400

Here's a shout out to my hometown, Vancouver, WA. I find it interesting that those "mean" conservatives that live there (me included), and who are against alternative lifestyles on principle, are also becoming known for fostering an environment that is friendly to transgendered folks. It turns out that being a conservative is not antithetical to being compassionate and human, at least from the perspective of the transgender community.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:15 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:15:38 -0400

I think Bradley Manning is the poster child for this issue. Here is a person so personally confused (his own words) about his identity that he willingly commits treason (even if you don't see it that way, that's the law and that's what he was convicted of.) That was also the best justification for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." If what you do, or are, or want to be is SO important that it's more important than serving your country, then you don't need to be in the military. You need to be out there campaigning for your cause. You can consider that is serving your country, if you believe it is.

In other words, BE HONEST. The military is not your personal soap box for whatever you believe in. All of us who join the military do so in the clear understanding that we give up some of our rights. We agree to live in a more controlled, dictatorial society than those we defend. It isn't FAIR. It was never intended to be FAIR. If that bothers you, DON'T JOIN. If fair is what you want, you don't belong in the military. It's simple - if you can't follow the rules, go play somewhere else. You don't have the right to demand that we play by your rules just so you can feel included. That's what the country is for, not what the military is for.

I am in favor of having a separate unit, like the Spartans did, where everyone in it is transgender, transsexual, gay, lesbian, bi, or whatever. But I don't think those "serving in silence" think that's "fair". And that's my point. They can't be happy until the military is converted into their soapbox, which means they are using the military for their political view, instead of serving.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Oct 31 at 2014 3:36 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:36:18 -0400

There are a number of issues brought up in the discussions here. A lot of great observations. One theme for a while is the mental stability, another is mixed up DNA. Mental stability is a separate area from the chemistry. The X's and Y's do not always come out clearly, and doctors can make decisions at birth that may ultimately not be congruent with the gender, If the transgender has developed into a well-balanced person, then mental stability is a non-issue. The issues come from unresolved pieces of life that create problematic behaviors and esteems. Like any other person, the issue then becomes whether they are or are not able to perform their jobs the same as anyone else. It has also been borne out by the law of the land with respect to equal opportunities and civil rights.

If your son or daughter were to come to you and tell you they are transgender, do you toss them out or try to understand them? They have no more control over that than someone who has a congenital problem. Different cultures throughout history have revered or given special status to transgendered people. Why regress?

Response by SGT Patrick McCullough made Oct 31 at 2014 4:45 PM

SGT Patrick McCullough — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:45:02 -0400

I believe we're not set up to cope with transgender. I also believe like stated by a prominent research Dr. It is another form of mental illness. Here is a link to the article, this is America where you choose. My observation is to leave it to the professionals, but I do believe it is a mutilation of ones body based on psychologically perceived shortcomings.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution [login to see]

Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution

In The Wall Street Journal, Dr. Paul McHugh writes that a drastic physical change doesn't address underlying psycho-social troubles.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 6:06 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:06:17 -0400

You know I really don't care if you are gay or transgender. What I don't know won't hurt or bother me. I don't agree with your life style and that will never change. But it doesn't really matter if I do or don't, keep it to yourself and leave me out of it. If you are serving honorably and doing your job everyone should have the opportunity. Now if we start getting crazy like USC then we have a problem Houston. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/09/30/university-of-california-adding-gender-neutral-restrooms-to-become-more-lgbt-inclusive-transgender-bathroom-uc-berkeley-davis-santa-cruz/

University Of California Adding Gender-Neutral Restrooms To Become More LGBT-Inclusive

Responding to concerns raised by gay and transgender students and employees, UC President Janet Napolitano directed the system's 10 campuses to create more gender-neutral restrooms.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 2:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 02:21:52 -0400

Can you move, shot, communicate? Then welcome aboard.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 12:50 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 12:50:19 -0500

I believe it is not fair. If a homosexual or bisexual service member can serve without fear of reprisal, then a transgender should be able to also. Because a lot of times those people that are transgender were born that way as a result of a birth defect and not because of and I quote "body-mutilation".

Response by SPC John Denelsbeck made Nov 4 at 2014 7:28 PM

SPC John Denelsbeck — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 19:28:54 -0500

Honestly to me, I do not care what your sexuality is. If you are willing to lay your life down and sign a blank check like we all have, then more power to you and you will always have my support. I do think it is unfair that bi, gays, lesbians can join but our transgenders can not i feel violates the rights to defend what we love.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Nov 7 at 2014 12:48 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:48:12 -0500

You can be all that you can be as long as you don't kiss in front of me or marry the same sex. or corrupt the minds of children.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Nov 13 at 2014 3:09 PM

Cpl Brett Wagner — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:09:00 -0500

What about pedophiles? A study just came out saying you are born a pedophile and you just cannot help it. Show we allow pedophiles to serve and practice their love too? How about bestiality? Homicidal people? Where do we draw the line? I think the military should be made up of serial killers they are the experts at killing anyway.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2014 4:53 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:53:37 -0500

BLUF: This is a tough issue.

I can't identify with anything that transgender individuals deal with, and integration still continues to be an issue with gay service members. I believe that what people choose to do with their bodies is their business, and they shouldn't be judged or banned for their actions. That being said, if there are physical issues that would preclude them from serving in any/all capacities that are required of military personnel, then that is a standard that needs to be adhered to.

An additional question for the discussion: Transgendered individuals require horomone medication for life. Should it be provided freely as other medications are for ailments, or should the member be required to pay for it, since they voluntarily undergo transition?

Edit: Updated language to be more neutral.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 12:41 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:41:24 -0500

If it's ok to be gay, then it should be ok to be transgender? What people do in their off time is not important to me, as long as they can shoot and stand their ground when the time comes.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 14 at 2014 5:38 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:38:30 -0500

Technology sure can throw a monkey wrench into the works. For thousands of years we move along as a developing society and assume that things are the way they are. Men are born men, and women are born women. In EXTREMELY rare circumstances, there is a case where biology/genetics/nature throws us a curve ball. We make huge breakthroughs in science and technology and because we have the technology to do something, we do it. For example, recently they found viable DNA from a human being from thousands of years ago and due to our "superior knowledge and technology", we have the ability to impregnate a modern woman with this material and have a modern "caveman." Why do this? Because it can be done. In order to fulfill our agenda, we go to advocacy groups and throw mud at each other. "If you don't agree wiith me, you are not a Christian." "If you don't agree with me, you support terrorism." "If you don't agree with me, you are a bigot, racist, communist, liberal, unconstitutional, ignorant, illegal immigrant, war monger, hippy, left-wing, right-wing, bat-crap crazy, athiest. In a world of 6 billion plus people, we need to focus on a miniscule portion of individuals because I can further my agenda. Where is the passion for the veterans who give everything they had to defend the very system that allows these focus groups to thrive? My mistake. Freedom is free. Everything revolves around ME and MY right to do what I want, where I want, and to whom I want. If you get in my way........see the above named labels. I wonder which group will be the first to sue me for interfering with their cash flow?

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Nov 14 at 2014 6:14 PM

PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:14:58 -0500

Let me start off by saying I don't know any transgender people (to my knowledge) on basis any deeper than an acquaintance. I've met a few, might recognize them again, might not. So, I don't have enough first hand data to develop an informed opinion. So, all I can offer are my feelings and some questions.

It's very hard for me to understand transgenderism. I look in the mirror, I see a man, I have no desire to see anything else. So, it's very hard for me to empathize. I don't have any ill will toward transgender folks, I take being Christian seriously and Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Last time I checked, they were still human so, it is my duty to treat them in a decent, respectful manner.

With that in mind, the stats provided above say that 90% of Transgenders are Men - Women. That being the case, there are some important questions to be answered before they are allowed to openly serve. Would the service require them to bunk with the men, wear uniforms of the men, shower with the men and then dress as they please in their off time? Or, would they be with the women all of the time? If so, how would female soldiers react to this? Having someone born a man showering with them?

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be allowed. I just think the issue is a bit more complicated than yes or no. It requires a lot of discussion and by people who are a lot smarter than I am.

Response by MSgt Joseph Haynes made Nov 16 at 2014 10:42 AM

MSgt Joseph Haynes — Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:42:59 -0500

Personally, I am sick and tired of seeing the discrimination flag waved so much. I don't care what race, color, gender or sexual orientation you are. Standards are standards and they must be equally enforced regardless of who (or what) the person is. If you violate standards, then the punishment must be equitable across board. With that being said, opportunities should also be equitable for all who are in uniform and should be based on merits and abilities. I wanted to join the ranks of Pararescue, but I have an arm injury that resulted in an elbow deformity. I still served honorably as a medic and did time in the field. I never even considered waving the discrimination flag about that. Equal rights equals equal responsibility; to do the job, do what's right and to uphold the standards to which each service member agreed to uphold when they signed up. As far as the to women officers on the dance floor, it doesn't matter if they are lesbian or straight. Why does that have to come into play? Standards are standards. The choice is simple, either uphold the standards or get out.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 4:34 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 04:34:02 -0500

If you can do the job without putting other's in danger then it doesn't matter what you have or don't have in your pants, and in turn it shouldn't matter if you want to change it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 4:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:42:25 -0500

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Here is the take on Transgenders from someone who knows what they are talking about. the most interesting thing here, which the military likely will take into account, is the suicide rate as it applies to transgender individuals.

Note that the American Psychiatric Association no longer considers Transgenderism a mental disorder, it should be known that is was not medical or psychiatric reasons, but political correct/lawsuit/ACLU based reasons for the change.

As always, my vote goes with science and logic.

Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible...

Dr. Paul R. McHugh. (Photo: Johns Hopkins Medicine)

Response by LT Clint Davis made Nov 19 at 2014 4:47 PM

LT Clint Davis — Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:47:50 -0500

Regardless of your sexual orientation, no service member should be discussing his/her sexuality in any capacity during the execution of their duties and capacities. Does it happen? Yes, all the time. That does not make it any less inappropriate. I have never understood why this garnered the attention that it has. It seems pretty straightforward; what one does on their own time, as long as it does not violate any laws or cause harm to others, is their own business. Don't bring it to work! Back in the late 80s, I flew with a lieutenant NFO. Outstanding shipmate, rock solid when it came to the mission. The squadron learned he was gay and he was gone within days. No one had a clue and many were upset to see him go. He kept his business to himself and we were ok with that. The navy lost an excellent officer.

I get that some are uncomfortable in that it could create awkward situations (in communal showers). But I also get that there are those, who are the way they are by no fault of their own, that want to serve their country. I can respect all sides of the argument.

I am still unclear as to how the breeding inclinations of any sailor soldier, airman or marine has any real bearing on the execution of one’s duties in any capacity of their military service. "Don't ask , don't tell" should have been changed to "don't discuss your private business at work... gay or straight". I will also concede that my thoughts and opinions are my own and are flawed at best!

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Nov 20 at 2014 2:30 PM

LTJG Robert M. — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:30:44 -0500

When you get right down to it the US Military is the most discriminatory organization there is.
You cant join if:
1. You're too Young
2. You're Too Old
3. You're too sick
4. You're too fat
5. You're Underweight
6. You're too short
7. You're too tall
8. You broke the law
9. you lied

Fair?? No, its called standards!

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/other-causes-for-disqualification.html

Many Factors Can Eliminate Your Chance To Join

In most cases, these are not permanently disqualifying. However, these are factors that you should mention to your recruiter.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Nov 29 at 2014 4:38 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 16:38:58 -0500

I am older than many of you now. I have changed my frame of thinking over the years - there are many who choose to do something other than what I choose to do. I also learned there are many aspects of what we never had to think about that have been brought out in the open. What we are used to is what we are comfortable with. Mother nature does not always have perfect permutations of chromosomes. Is it up to me to judge people with different permutations? What if my children came out as gay or transgender? Do I ignore them and throw them out in the street where they have a great chance of doing everything I raised them not to do? Or do I undertake to understand my child and support them so they can be the person they want to be?
I know violence. I know bigotry. I know stupidity. I have partaken in all of these - now is the time for me to listen - to respond appropriately, not to react because of how I was raised. There are enough other issues in the world that need to be taken care of. Besides, I reacted when I went into the military because of those beliefs - and now I have to respond to the VA because they have failed to perform as required under the law - and because those denials have caused hundreds of thousands of premature deaths. My responses must be thoughtful, strategic, well-planned and well-executed. I reacted already being being angry for many years and got nowhere. So I listened, I learned, and now I respond.
Good luck to all, and that you all make the most of our holiday season this year.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 6:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Nov 2014 18:03:57 -0500

Political Correctness is running amuck in my opinion.

Response by SPC(P) Samantha Moore made Nov 30 at 2014 6:25 PM

SPC(P) Samantha Moore — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:25:47 -0500

Am I the only one who doesn't care if a transgender or even gay person wants to serve? What is the issue exactly?

Response by SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. made Nov 30 at 2014 11:34 PM

SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. — Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:34:13 -0500

Absolutely.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 5:32 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 05:32:44 -0500

I was completely unaware that this was still a rule and yes it should be changed. If you truly identify as transgender and have a burning desire to defend this country, you should not have to explain yourself. That being said, you would be required those same standards as whatever sex you identified with. No making up rules when it is convenient but aligning yourself with the male or female standards set in front of you.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Dec 1 at 2014 5:43 AM

SGT Steve Oakes — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 05:43:47 -0500

This should not be an issue. As long as they can, and do meet the standards and do not sexually harass anyone why should they not serve? I believe that all this comes from people thinking that LGBTG are somehow sick, and/or immoral. Or that they will rape their preferred partners if the person is not willing.
Heteralsexual people rape and we let them serve until they are caught doing it. Also, supposedly normal people do all kinds of shit that I find sick and/or immoral and they are allowed to serve. Abortion purely for convenience, racial, and/or religious prejudice, excessive drinking, use of illegal drugs,or abuse of prescription ones. I could go on but the point is made. If the only thing I have to worry about is a guy asking me out, and he accepts my answer of "no" then I'm OK. If the girl I have my eye on used to be a guy and they are open and honest about it fine. If the guy next to me in the fox hole used to be a girl and they can meet the physical standards to be in that fox hole what is the problem? None I say.

Response by PO1 John Y. made Dec 3 at 2014 3:22 PM

PO1 John Y. — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 15:22:33 -0500

The gay-lesbian, radical liberal agenda is to skew our perception of what has been a long understanding of right and wrong. Who am I to say what is right or wrong? Someone whose life has to depend on the person next to me in a high-stress crisis. If you are willing to bend/break the laws of nature (and in my belief, God) then how does any other law, rule, or regulation apply to you. A transgender person doesn't seem to see the rules apply to them, in my opinion. I can't trust someone like that. Now, someone or several of you will write me off as ignorant, I don't care. You got the genitalia you were given, use for the purpose it was intended or not. If you can't you don't belong in my military.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Dec 5 at 2014 5:23 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:23:45 -0500

Fair or unfair, the military/government has decided to take an unbiased position on the sexuality issue with the striking of don't ask, don't tell and the DOMA. Obviously, the goal is equal treatment. I don't believe a transgender would be separated

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 12:50 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 00:50:11 -0500

AR 40-501 Standards of Medical Fitness

2-14 Genetalia
a. Female Genetalia
(5) History of major abnormalities or defects of the genitalia such as change of sex (P64.5), hermaphroditism, pseudohermaphroditism, or pure gonadal dysgenesis (752.7), or dysfunctional residuals from surgical correction of these conditions does not meet the standard.

2-14 Genetalia
b. Male Genetalia
(8) Current hydrocele (603.0), if large or symptomatic, does not meet the standard. Left varicocele (456.4), if symptomatic, or associated with testicular atrophy, or vericocele larger than the testis does not meet the standard. Any right varicocele (456.4) does not meet the standard.
d. History of major abnormalities or defects of the genitalia, such as a change of sex (P64.5), hermaphroditism, pseudohermaphroditism, or pure gonadal dysgenesis (752.7) or dysfunctional residuals from surgical correction of these conditions does not meet the standard.

2-27 Learning, psychiatric and behavioral disorders
n. Current or history of psychosexual conditions (302), including, but not limited to transsexualism, exhibitionism, transvestism, voyeurism, and other paraphilias, do not meet the standard.

Response by 1LT Keith Gannon made Dec 9 at 2014 7:14 AM

1LT Keith Gannon — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 07:14:50 -0500

Transgendered individuals who have a medical anomaly (whether corrected or not) should certainly be allowed to serve. We're currently prosecuting an adulterous colonel for having unprotected sex and not informing his partner of HIV positive status. I'll take ambiguous genitalia over HIV any day of the week. Babies born with intersex traits rate at about 1 in 1,500 births.

That being said...

A man born with normal male genitalia and hormone levels who gets up one day and decides it's time to live life as a woman...that guy is dealing with a level of internal conflict that is not appropriate for military service. I could not think of anything more disruptive than a male O-5 showing up out of the blue in a female service uniform wearing makeup and wanting to use the female latrine. There are 15,500 punk rockers serving in silence...it's adios to the pink mohawks and nipple rings...again because it is disruptive. Sometimes it doesn't get to be all about you.

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 8:47 PM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Dec 2014 20:47:22 -0500

Military service isn't about self. So whatever someone self-identifies as shouldn't matter at all. If you are gay, straight, transgender or not then it shouldn't matter. Ultimately- if you care enough to find out about somebody else, or care enough to tell everyone then your interests probably aren't in the service, and perhaps more about drawing attention to yourself. If you insist on expensive medical treatments so that you can feel more like an opposite gender- your probably still thinking about yourself. Really, if you want to serve in the military, then you should want to use all of your body's assets, including physical strength, empathy, endurance, and whatever other qualities you may have to best support the military service and your specific MOS. Privately, nobody cares what you identify as, because ultimately the military is not about private life.

*edit: If the military moves to eliminate transgender restrictions- it might also be useful to eliminate all gender distinctions- including uniforms, hair styles, etcetera. For example, if men were allowed to receive medical treatment and benefits for childbirth then the number of males who would request it would increase by 0.

Response by Sgt S.P. Woodke made Dec 12 at 2014 11:26 AM

Sgt S.P. Woodke — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:26:38 -0500

YES FAIR IS FAIR...THEY LIED

Response by Sgt John H. made Dec 12 at 2014 12:08 PM

Sgt John H. — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:08:52 -0500

Discipline and order are essential to serving in the military. If transgender causes a disruption in the unity and fighting ability of a unit then having transgender soldiers may imperil the effectiveness and safety of the unit. Why is it that so many soldiers forget that they are sworn in to protect our constitution and country, not to test the constitution and existing laws.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2014 4:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:18:10 -0500

When you look at a group of Soldiers, there should never be a consideration of well that's a 'white guy', that's a 'black girl', or anything that separates the nature of what the group is... Soldiers. There are many groups (Within and without) that are trying to divide each and everyone one of us into separate squares or pens.

That is not how the military works.

We work, live, and fight together.

The more we all work together to be more 'green', and less the person in the uniform--the better we shall be.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2014 11:47 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:47:12 -0500

Interesting statistic

Response by PO1 Robert Elton made Dec 20 at 2014 6:01 PM

PO1 Robert Elton — Sat, 20 Dec 2014 18:01:50 -0500

I don't care about plumbing. All I care about is mission completion.

Response by LCpl Michael Imel made Dec 21 at 2014 3:26 AM

LCpl Michael Imel — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 03:26:59 -0500

i think it's fair.... cause anyone that changes their body, or their primal instinct is very insecure, there for will allow weakness and selfishness within the ranks, cannot pervert the dicipline and brotherhood of our beloved corps!!!

Response by SMSgt Alan Saunders made Dec 22 at 2014 4:48 PM

SMSgt Alan Saunders — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 16:48:59 -0500

It's sad to see the world's finest military organizations being torn apart by attempts to use us as guinea pigs for the myriad of social experiments being shoved down our throats. When we started making an issue of our individual sexuality through DADT, it was only a matter of time until the shroud would be removed completely. Now we have openly homosexual individuals serving in our Armed Forces - and that causes us to focus on the wrong aspects of their character. My point is - it should NOT matter.

In conjunction with the repeal of DADT, we started seeing our Chaplains being hand-cuffed by not being allowed to express their faith to others and forcing them to violate their beliefs in performing rites for these same homosexuals. Pretty soon, there will be a call to disband the Chaplain Services all-together citing their "intolerance" towards these fringe groups that society is working so hard to provide special rights to.

Now we are seeing the push for acceptance of "transgender" people to serve openly in the Armed Forces. Really? Another group looking for special privileges? First, we need to understand the definition - a person whose self-identification differs from their genetic sex. Many of them choose to dress and act as the opposite sex (the sex/gender they identify with) - rather than the one they are born with. So that leads to a number of issues in a close/closed society such as a military unit (housing, job assignments, combat roles, etc).

Military service is reserved for those with the desire to serve who also meet a defined set of standards, both physical and psychological. Given the definition of transgender - and a clear understanding of Psychology - I would have to strongly urge caution before issuing a blanket invitation to all who identify themselves as transgender. All prospective recruits must continue to be evaluated individually against the standards and criteria before being allowed to sign an enlistment contract.

To say it's OK because some transgender people have already served in the Armed Forces does not justify or warrant allowing ALL to serve. That statement only goes to prove my belief - it should NOT matter nor should it become a known fact.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2014 5:10 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 17:10:03 -0500

Why is this a question? I am glad with everything else going on transgender in the military s whats really important. I think we all need to step back and ask ourselves what are we really trying to accomplish as a society. If anyone wants to join the military and they are able why does their sexual orientation matter? Do I personally agree with it? Does it really matter if I or anyone else does or not? When you sign on the dotted line you are not a gay soldier you are not a straight soldier you are not a transgender soldier you are a solder who is held to the same standards as every other soldier if you cant keep those standards then we can talk about if you should be allowed in or not.

Response by MSgt Timothy Bridgham made Dec 22 at 2014 8:35 PM

MSgt Timothy Bridgham — Mon, 22 Dec 2014 20:35:45 -0500

Wow there are some really wild ideas here, some dislike the pic "Capt Clinton Albaugh" because they THINK they see something that is not there. look again Capt, try some contextual viewing. others make blanket comments about other peoples views "MIDN LTJG Tucker Marberry", People that have not yet served but are still in school should open their ears and close their lips. Listen first and maybe you will learn something. The Idea of Transgender in the military is another step in the dumbing down of our military, Anyone that puts themselves into a group that occupies that much of their lives, is not giving 100% to their country, therefore they are incompatible with military service. If they are that confused in their life, then no they do not need to serve.

Response by SGT Luke Huston made Dec 23 at 2014 7:34 AM

SGT Luke Huston — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 07:34:19 -0500

No man/woman should ever be denied the opportunity to serve their Country.

Response by SPC Nicholas Anderson made Dec 23 at 2014 12:24 PM

SPC Nicholas Anderson — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 12:24:28 -0500

I wasn't truly aware of this whole debate/situation going on. I have been out of the service for a bit so maybe that's why but I noticed yesterday on my VA's homepage that there was a large notice saying how the VA is training their staff and those who volunteer, how to deal with transgender and how accepting the VA is of this...circumstance.
I truly don't know what to make of it. The military, along with society, is fluctuating more towards being forgiving of almost anything it seems. I'm all for being yourself and living your life for you but I just don't understand this. The military is suppose to be this 'well oiled machine' and I think when this 'machine' goes through so many side 'modifications' that shouldn't be of focus, the gears tend to wear down, so to speak. Does this ramble make any sense? Bottom line: just don't understand it.
EDIT:
And when I say "fluctuating towards being forgiving of almost anything", I am not putting down transgenders but I'm just speaking overall, in my opinion. The thing is, your you and you think differently than others; so be you. But when things of this nature become such a distraction within the military like the same sex deal years back, it just tears the major focus. I dunno; again...my opinion.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Dec 23 at 2014 1:56 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 13:56:50 -0500

Why is there such fierce debate over such a miniscule percentage of the population? Miniscule. The military has always been the sociological pioneer for change and human rights. The rights of one must be the rights for all or none of us are worthy of rights. We are talking about simple differences in biology, anatomy, and luck of the draw....not deviant behavior. I served in the military when homosexuals were shunned and thrown out....then it was "don't ask don't tell"....Now, there are no restrictions for service. In 20 years, the tables have turned 100%. Now that I am out and can speak my mind, I can say that minds are just blown over such a drastic change. Old school military still serving have been told that homosexuals were not allowed, then tolerated, and then finally accepted without question. Like it or not, they changed the rules on EVERYBODY. It is now the individuals responsibility to either accept new policies and continue to serve or to say "this isn't what I believe in" and get out. Your dedication and service to your country, despite your beliefs and politics, is not in question. You are all my family. For those of you so quick to bash each other for not sharing the same opinions, just remember that things were not always just one way.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Dec 23 at 2014 3:44 PM

SFC(P) Tobias M. — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 15:44:18 -0500

Here is how i look at this entire subject and it has been said a time or two before me. If they can shoot and do their job I really don't care. I only put one stipulation on this. Do not put the moves on me. If you follow that one rule we will be great. I don't care what you do in your free time as long as you do your job and have my back. I will have your back the entire time no matter what. I will not allow myself to have someone Sexual assault or harass me or any one else for that matter. Its that easy. I really wish people (That cant get over this) would open their eyes and see that we all bleed the same color. RED. I will get off my soap box now.

Response by LCDR John Sahlin made Dec 23 at 2014 5:48 PM

LCDR John Sahlin — Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:48:30 -0500

Being transgender does not inhibit one's ability to do his or her job. It is not relevant to any mission.

Denying the ability to serve because of being transgender is not the same as denying service to people who cannot pass the ASVAB or cannot meet basic physical fitness standards - those issues directly relate to the mission.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 10:50 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Jan 2015 10:50:03 -0500

I'm kind of amazed at the way that some people to separate their perception of morality from other people's right to life, liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. You may be morally opposed to the way someone lives their life but that doesn't give you the right to dictate how they live. The only person obligated to live according to my perception of right and wrong is me. Even my wife has a much different perception of right and wrong than my own and we get along great because we don't force our beliefs on each other. I'm a big proponent of live and let live.

Response by CW3 John Wescott made Jan 8 at 2015 10:34 AM

CW3 John Wescott — Thu, 08 Jan 2015 10:34:53 -0500

All I will say is:

Quit Using the Military for your Social Experiments

I don't care if you are a man, women, transgendered, gay, straight, yellow, brown, green or whatever you choose to call yourself. Put on your ruck, grab your weapon and get to work.

We are SOLDIERS - we signed a contract to protect this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic. The draft ended in the mid-70's - you enlisted, you signed the contract. You are part of a team, a botherhood - what you do in your off time I don't give a crap. But when you put on your uniform remember the blood that was spilled by the people who went before you. Don't disrespect the uniform because you want to prove a point. If you don't want to follow the standards then ETS and go do your own thing but when you take Uncle Sam's money then follow the standards- end of story.

I don't agree with everything the Army does but I am sick and tired about people complaining about the Army won't let them do. My advice - ETS and go on with your life

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jan 13 at 2015 6:02 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:02:45 -0500

This is Rally Point, with that reminder in hand I try to frame my contribution to the discussion with "How does it support completing the mission?".

In other words, "Would the downfalls of x outweigh the benefits of x?"

As a sidebar I would bring other sexual eccentricities to the discussion for thought:
* Would the downfalls of a masochist outweigh the benefits of a masochist?
Probably, they might excel in training, and counter interrogation.
* Would the downfalls of a sadist outweigh the benefits of a sadist?
Probably not, we still feel the effects of political fallout from "Enhanced interrogation tactics" in Guantanamo bay.

So with this litmus test, "Would transgender people in the military benefit the completion of the mission?"

WebMD defines gender-dysphoria as:
"People who have gender dysphoria feel strongly that they are not the gender they physically appear to be."

That said, it could be called a mental disorder, or the mirror image of a physical disorder. The point is that there's something out of sync between the individual's body and their perception of it.

That alone would generally exclude someone from the military, because the military doesn't enlist people that need something "fixed" i. g. a friend of mine has to get a deviated septum repaired before he was allowed to enlist.

I say generally, because soldiers (as much as we strive for uniformity) at the day are still individuals. Yes, there are individuals that have specific skill sets that have value that outweighs abnormality.

However, recruiters don't sign up troops based on individual skill-set, so policy has to be based on generalization. This isn't a job down at Wal-Mart, the enemy doesn't make allowances for differences, they exploit them.

Even if an individual has has gender reassignment surgery there is still lifelong hormone therapy to consider... the added expense, a item in the supply chain that specifically supports one individual?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 2:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 14:54:49 -0500

Is it fair? No. However, the issue lies in this: The military is (let's be honest) still very gender-separate. Now, say there is a transgender male, who carries themself, dresses and generally passes for, a female, in IET. Now, naturally, that soldier would want to live with the gender that they most identify with. So if we allowed that, then the other soldiers of that gender would most assuredly not be comfortable with that. In coupling with that, if we were to force that soldier to lie with soldiers of their own (by birth) gender, that would make THAT soldier AND the others uncomfortable. SHARP and EO complaints would be through the roof, and when that happens, it holds the propensity to shut down entire battalions of training units, and effectively delay, if not halt training altogether. Political correctness is not something I generally believe in. However, in the interest of the direction that the military has moved, I personally cannot see it working out well for many.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 8:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 08:01:55 -0500

This is going to be an issue sadly. For a values based organization like the army to change old rotted values is not going to be an easy one. I still think that the repeal of don't as don't tell was a bad idea it has now opened up this kind of issue and this is not the stuff that we should not be worried about as an army we should be worded about training solders and preparing for the next conflict the next deployment securing our boarders. not making someone happy so they can be in the army and still do what they want to do. conform to the army values or get out stop trying to change them so you can do what you want to.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 24 at 2015 1:38 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:38:24 -0500

In the Marines, as we move closer to a more Uniform standard across the board, this issue becomes moot.

1) Universal Dress Blues are currently being previewed

2) PFT standards are coming closer

That said, Men & Women are different physiologically. This is not an opinion. It is a fact, and that is why there are different standards. This includes Grooming, Physical, and Uniform standards.

Once you get past the "I identify as a X" bit, which is irrelevant to the military function, you are left with the Can X person do Y task, and will this person be more beneficial than detrimental to the military.

The current concern would be "Good order & discipline."

If someone is physiologically male, but identifies as female, how does that work in uniform and out?

In my opinion, you go by birth sex. Therefore, while IN uniform all standards have to be adhered to as though you are your birth gender. That means no relaxed grooming, or modified uniform standards.

However off duty.... if someone wants to dress as their 'identified' gender, then so be it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2015 4:26 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2015 16:26:47 -0500

I don't think the problem is them serving openly. If that were the only problem we could solve that tomorrow. LGBT SM have been serving for a while. I believe the difference between LGB and Transgendered SM is the cost.

What if a kid wakes up 2 years into a 4 year contract and decides he's transgendered? What if he wants gender reassignment surgery? Are the Services expected to pick up the cost? I say all of this believeing that there will be a policy sooner rather than later that allows transgendered people to enlist and serve openly.

How to you enlist or access a transgendered person? What do the medical forms at MEPS look like? If a person knows that they are transgendered before they enlist should they tell the MEPS doc? Will there be a waiver required? Will there be an addendum to the contract that states the applicant will not seek medical treatment for gender dysphoria (mental or physical) while serving the contractual part of the MSO? All things to consider, ladies and gentlemen.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 3:25 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 15:25:47 -0500

i honestly don't see what the issue is. why should they get kicked out? atleast they are willing to serve our country like everyone else. if they dont let transgenders in the military are they going to stop letting in people of all races or religions? there is not that much difference. as long as everyone acts professional there should be no issue.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Feb 9 at 2015 9:29 AM

SFC Collin McMillion — Mon, 09 Feb 2015 09:29:58 -0500

I have read all the responses to this, and in my opinion, very few have any true basis for being posted. If one is physically and mentally capable of serving our country, let them. With all the professionals we have in the military, ie. Dr, social workers, counselors, chaplins, etc, if they find no reason for one not to serve, who am I to say different? All I expect is if the need arises for me to cover your back and you to cover mine, DO IT, if you can't or won't then pray I don't survive!!!!

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 9 at 2015 10:04 AM

MSgt Michelle Mondia — Mon, 09 Feb 2015 10:04:56 -0500

MASH already covered this debate for us. Things like this and homosexuality are no longer considered mental illnesses...amoung other conditions like menapause. "We are family" so to speak.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2015 1:43 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 01:43:24 -0500

Yes. We aren't a social experiment.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Feb 22 at 2015 5:25 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:25:37 -0500

I just came across an article in USA Today the VA treated 2,567 veterans for gender dysphoria in 2013. This was cited in another article dated December 24, 2014. I run veteran reintegration programs in North Carolina and elsewhere, and I was told recently there has been a significant enough increase in veterans coming out with respect to gender issues (not sexuality), that the VA has increased the availability of care to meet the need. Issues include service members completing celebrated tours and careers, only to finally come to grips that their gender identity issues were driving their desire to convince themselves otherwise.

I am just putting out information shared with me that comes from medical sources.

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Feb 25 at 2015 12:09 AM

SSgt Thomas L. — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 00:09:57 -0500

I have a hard time with this one. For one, Gender Identity Disorder (GID) is beyond question a "pre-existing medical condition" that the military is well within their rights to list as a disqualifying factor.
This is where the clarity about the issue ends. I'm not very knowledgeable about the specifics of the disorder, but I know it takes some people a long time to realize that their life-long struggles with self-image and body are actually GID. If I had a congenital heart disease that wasn't caught until I was 5 years into my military career, the military still has the obligation to treat that disease, even while they gather the paperwork for my discharge. The SAME goes for mental disorders like depression and schizophrenia. I'm on the fence as to thinking GID is a disorder that's compatible with military service... I lean towards "no". However, I definitely think that as a recognized disorder, it should be treated if a service member is diagnosed with it.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 2 at 2015 3:25 AM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 03:25:11 -0500

not sure....however I believe it article 125

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 1:10 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 13:10:51 -0500

I've seen a lot of talk back and forth on this lately, almost too much, but I did want to stress a couple of things. 1. There is a huge difference between acceptance and tolerance. While I have gay friends and know gay troops and am very tolerant to their lifestyle, that doesn't mean I accept it as moral or professional behavior. In addition, just because you can openly say you are gay, it doesn't mean that a flood gate has been lifted and you can act flamboyant and talk about what you want to do to this troop and that troop. I've seen a lot of that since the DADT repeal and it's still sexual harassment and unprofessional and wrong. Again. Tolerance VS acceptance. 2. Transgender doesn't mean gay. I know many transgendered people who are still attracted to the opposite birth sex. Having said that. There are no transgendered people serving in silence. Are their soldiers and sailors that practice it out of uniform, identify themselves as other than their sex or feel they should have been born differently? Absolutely. I'm sure their are. However, regardless of that fact we don't have males dressing in female uniforms or women using male latrines because that's who they identify with. The simple fact of the matter is this: it's the military. The rules are as they are before you go in. It's a voluntary force. If anything you should identify yourself as transgendered and sign a waiver specifying that you will not practice it IN UNIFORM (as in being a different sex than yours while on duty etc.). Also you shouldn't get medical coverage for what amounts to cosmetic surgery. I can't get a lipo on the Tri care dime, then the same holds true for those that want to change their sex. That is on them. Not on the government or the military. 3. If we were to allow openly transgendered service members then no playing both sides of the fence. If you want to be a man then you perform at the male standard. If you were born a man, well too bad. You do it at the male standard too. Hahaha. 4. The simple fact is when it comes down to it, are the benefits outweighing the negatives? Is it divisive or counter to good morale and discipline? Does it build or destroy esprit de corps? Does it hurt our strength and our ability to defend this great nation? Because I got to tell you, end of the day, your preferences take a huge back seat to the security and welfare of the whole! If 1/2 of 1/2% of your body became cancerous in the form of a small tiny tumor and it was making the organism sick, and was risking that organisms survival, you wouldn't hesitate. You would excise it immediately. The military is an organism. If we were to find that transgender and other fringe elements within the service became detrimental to that service, should we hesitate? I'm not saying they ARE, in saying we need to look at whether they WOULD BE. would we be able to muster a large and strong force if we allowed it? Should we now allow open adherents to the KKK in the service? They are practicing their constitutional right to free speech. Gang members? Other hate groups? Peace Corps? Conscientious objectors? Would our recruiting numbers plummet? Would retention bottom out? Again. The military's mission is to defend our country. If we cannot accomplish the mission by doing this, then it has no place.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 3:39 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 03:39:49 -0500

Haven't we had a bunch of threads on this recently? I don't see the issue with trans persons serving openly. I've had the pleasure of knowing several trans veterans, and they were all exceptional members of their respective services. Follow along with public examples like Senior Chief (SEAL) Kristen Beck and I have to wonder at the actual logic behind not allowing them to serve openly. Not that it excuses her actions, but if Chelsea Manning had been able to serve openly and seek help, is it possible she would have been able to continue to serve honorably instead of betraying her oaths?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 8:37 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 08:37:39 -0400

All I can say is wow, I am so impressed with the open responses on here. My first thought was.... this is going to be too disruptive to order, thinking of the stir that sometimes (less now) comes with caring for transgender individuals, because doctors are not always used to it, how it affects lab values, medications, preventive care, people's preconceptions and fears, etc. Also, which PT standards, barracks, etc? My mind has been blown at all of the positive and accepting responses. Thanks for sharing your tolerance.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 11 at 2015 9:17 AM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 09:17:50 -0400

well sniff sniff.....I understand where they are coming from....I'm straight.....and I been in the closet for the longest time....it's not fair that I can't make a exception for my sexual preference

Response by PO2 Terri Myre made Mar 12 at 2015 10:21 AM

PO2 Terri Myre — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 10:21:32 -0400

This might sound crappy but I don't care. I'm tired of everyone being worried about someone else's feelings. NO TRANNIES!!!! I'm sorry but being out on the ship, in very close quarters, it's just not the place for someone who can't figure out what's up. The big, huge issue here is that genetically he/she is a male but identifies as a female. With all the PC BS that's taken hold of every aspect of life, this male would be allowed to stay in a female berthing for deployment. OH HELL NO! It would go the same for the male berthing. All I have to say is that blanket parties and man overboards would be at an all time high. It's just NOT natural.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 11:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 23:50:55 -0400

I don't think it's so much of a should've/could've type situation but how you could make accommodations... Regardless of how PC you want to make this, some or most females might not enjoy showering with another male whether she sees herself as a FEMALE or NOT. And TRUST when I say I have a female bff who looks beautiful when dressed in drag. You wouldn't be able to tell. And I make every show I can for support. (Because I know I'll be called a bigot or something. *rolling eyes*)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 6:47 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 18:47:04 -0400

So if I identify as Female, do I get to use their PT standard?
I mean it's who I am on the inside right?
Where does it stop?

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 17 at 2015 11:06 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 23:06:40 -0400

well ummmmm I'm straight and serving in silence...by the way....has article 125 been repealed yet....I'm ready to get a freak on

Response by SPC Erika Cantrell made Mar 17 at 2015 11:18 PM

SPC Erika Cantrell — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 23:18:29 -0400

Yes, as long as they can perform to standards like everyone else

Response by CPL Hayward Johnson made Mar 20 at 2015 3:31 PM

CPL Hayward Johnson — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:31:09 -0400

Soooo much for the land of the free...i mean really if a person. ..any person wants to voluntarily lay down their life for the freedom of a country whose sole purpose is to bring it to all"so they say" then why should it matter? A bullet doesn't know sexuality, neither does a m4 or hand grenade

Response by SGT John Wesley made Mar 20 at 2015 3:45 PM

SGT John Wesley — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:45:36 -0400

The Military is just a microcosm of our society, things eventually change, even in the military... Most of the active duty people here probably don't remember when Drill Sergeants laid hands upon trainees on a normal day to day basis. That has changed, and change is going to happen. Those who resist tend to be filtered out I guess....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 18:06:16 -0400

I have to say that, reading this forum, I've seen a lot of the typical posts elsewhere - all the "PC is ruining my country" and "dem queers, it's yucky and therefore bad" or of course, "That's against GAAAWWWWDDDD!!!"

But the grand majority of the posts here seem to be along the lines of "If they are willing to serve, let them serve." Thank you guys for gradually restoring my faith in humanity.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 6:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 18:28:16 -0400

I'd be interested to know where the numbers 15,500 transgender service members and that 90% are male to female come from. This is likely just more of the "we believe x% of the population are transgender, and therefore that means that there are y number of transgenders in the service" rhetoric.

I find it hard to believe that 15,500 people can change their gender without the military knowing about it considering medical exams, urinalysis tests, deployment conditions, and other situations where gender may be rather evident to others around you.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 12:18 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 00:18:39 -0400

Tell ya what...start coming up with how we fund and logistically support separate showers, latrines, and barracks for each individual and I'll support anything.

Can they serve with honor and be as capable as anyone else? Absolutely.

Do they have rights? Absolutely.

My biggest argument about the repeal of DADT was privacy. Ignorance was bliss, but now you get to know and if you as a straight person are uncomfortable sharing a tent, shower, or latrine with a gay person - too f'ing bad, as we are told.

Now I know I'm an ugly SOB...but if I don't get to look at breasts (what I find to be sexually appealing to me, a straight man)...why do we open the peep show to homosexuals? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that every single one of them absolutely will not look...ever?

Now keep in mind...I frankly don't care who I am bunking with. If I end up in a two man hut with a gay guy....fine. I'm straight, you're gay...we're rooming together, it's professional and I sleep here, you sleep there. I frankly don't care. I'm confident in my sexually to not care. If he wants to talk about his husband back home - fine. I no doubt will be talking about my wife back home. Hell, I'll even change from PT to ABUs in front of him...because I really don't care. But is it fair? Is it right? *IF* he found me attractive, does him seeing me in the shower give him something to think about? Why can't I shower with the gals in this case.

"But MSgt Mac...I don't want some dude checking out my wife/mom/gf/sister when she deploys!!!" So it's ok for a lesbian but not a straight dude?

And that brings up the point of the post. TG/TS individuals will either get to pick, or someone has to foot the bill to give them their own facilities. If they get to pick, suddenly a bunch of straight guys are going to claim to be TG/TS for two reasons: 1) To get out of the men's showers and into the women's showers, and 2) To get out of the men's showers when TG/TS are in there.

Separate facilities? Great. Just take that Exchange candy and soda and "pieces of home" off the plane and load it up with extra tents. Tear down a gym, the USO, and any other morale tents so we can have room to set up these extra facilities. And that's just for separate latrines/showers/barracks for groups of TG/TS individuals. So if one identifies as a woman and one identifies as a man on the FOB - do we bunk them together or barrack them separately? Or do we put the man that id's himself as a woman in with women and the one that id's herself as a man in with the men?

Or just co-ed everything and be done with it.

Frankly, that last option is the option I elect. We're so uptight about sex and sexuality anyways. Just be done with it. Since that won't happen in the next century, the only other option is to frankly just draw the line and say "We get it, but it can't be done. Sorry. Move on". Harsh, but hey - life ain't fair.

In conclusion: it doesn't matter in the end. If our leaders say it happens, it happens. We follow and support the policy to the letter, and we make it work. The missions get done, the wars get won, and the more that come home in tact is all I care about. I'd rather see smiling, happy families when the plane touches down on US soil, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, then to ever have to escort another flag draped box or hold a dying brother or sister's hand again.

Soapbox rant that went all over the place. Sorry.

Response by LCpl Antoinette Coy made Mar 28 at 2015 11:20 AM

LCpl Antoinette Coy — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 11:20:05 -0400

If they are willing to fight for their country and protect others rights. I don't see it as a problem this country is judgemental and bias at times they never look at the big picture.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jun 26 at 2015 11:31 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Fri, 26 Jun 2015 23:31:28 -0400

PC be damned, I'm just going to say it, "I believe there is a place for these folks -- just not in the military. They aren't right and struggle with their choices. While I empathize with their struggles, they aren't fit to deal with their complicated issues AND the strains of military service. Conflicted, this MAN took HIS own life..." Cue the down votes for speaking the truth!

Transgender Vet Who Helped Fellow LGBT Soldiers Takes Her Own Life

Despite her success helping other LGBT soldiers and veterans cope with their identities and roles in the military, air force vet Jess Shipps ultimately could not help herself.The 32-year-old transgender woman died by suicide on June 23, her fellow service members said. Shipps served a decade in the military bringing home the remains of soldiers who were killed overseas so their families could have a proper funeral. She served the final two...

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 8:17 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 08:17:07 -0400

I will repeat that ALL generalizations about people are false including this one.

This applies to any and all groups. Any statement made about a group that is all inclusive is simply false.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2015 9:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jun 2015 09:29:26 -0400

I have served with one of the Army best Soldiers, the reason I say that he is one of the best that I would go in to a fight with him without any doubt. Former Marine, he is a great Soldier and a friend. Meet SGT Ortega:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transgender-in-the-military-a-pentagon-in-transition-weighs-its-policy/2015/04/09/ee0ca39e-cf0d-11e4-8c54-ffb5ba6f2f69_story.html

Transgender in the military: A Pentagon in transition weighs its policy

Sgt. Shane Ortega enlisted as a woman. He now identifies as a man. Rules call for him to be discharged. But he expects to resume his full duties soon.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:14 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:14:23 -0400

I said before and I will say it again, if our leaders change the policy we will adapt and carry on, if not we will carry on. We follow orders and we will lay our lives down for anyone in our unit to save theirs.

Response by CPL S Gibbs made Jun 29 at 2015 12:28 PM

CPL S Gibbs — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:28:34 -0400

It's really ridiculous. Non issue. Yes, they should be separated. They cannot be spending their time of their "issue". They need to be paying attention. A good soldier pays attention to the matters at hand. All the other stuff goes to the back of the stove...Just ridiculous. Being armed and ready is what soldiers focus on....Action and focus necessary, not someone who is caught up in a mental dilemma.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:50 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:50:53 -0400

I don't personally have anything against it, but do believe it causes a logistical nightmare. Where do you billet them? What restrooms/showers do they use? What PT test do they take? I think these are just some of the things the Military needs to figure out before I believe they can allow them to openly serve.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 2:37 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:37:40 -0400

By the way, I find it interesting that many people who can accept the premise of fictional shows like Star Trek-and it's federation of multi-stellar-species-racial counterparts cannot yet accept our reality here on Earth. Star Trek, of course, was ahead of our time.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 29 at 2015 2:39 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:39:40 -0400

Hmm, we don't allow Insulin dependent diabetics to serve, nor do we let the blind serve, is that fair? If your too fat for your respective service you are not allowed in, or have meet height and weight standards. If your mental capacity is not high enough we don't let you serve. If you have split personalities we don't let you serve, if you are a convicted axe murderer we don't let you serve. If you can't speak English you can't serve, excessive acne can't serve, If your to tall we won't you serve, too short we won't let you serve, and yet, out of all of these discriminatory practices no one is griping accept for those who are confused about their sexual gender? Not trying to be a smart a** but what makes them special?

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 29 at 2015 4:58 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 16:58:55 -0400

I understand that the scientific/social definition of these things is still in flux, but what is clear is that there is no concrete understanding of why and how at present. Sexual identity is different from this, and it's fairly concrete.
This, on the other hand, usually manifests in tandem with other mental health issues. A friend's son was turned away from the Navy because of a dermatologist-cleared instance of acne, which harbors far fewer considerations as far as fitness for duty.
Who has their gender identity issues all worked out at the average age of enlistment, and should the military be in a position where it has to patiently indulge an enlistee who is sorting their way through all of this?
I say, pointing at Bradley Manning, that this is a resounding "no." People can take off their social engineering hats now and look at this objectively - we need to be able to draw the line between wanting to accept people who may or may not want to transition or whatever the language is, and having that taint someone's fitness for service. This is not ignorance - read the psychiatric research. We're trying to lower suicide rates, and yet the transgendered have a higher than normal suicide rate. Pushing this on the service is ignorance, it's precipitous, it's foolish, and we should be, with regards to our fighting force, not in the business of borrowing trouble.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 12:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 12:00:16 -0400

One major problem with transgendered people serving is if they decide to transition while serving that person would be gone constantly for on appointments and would be non deployable for an extended amount of time if they are allowed in but not allowed to transition it could lead to severe depression and possible suicide so I think it would be a mistake for that reason.

Response by SPC Candace Leach made Jul 2 at 2015 12:10 PM

SPC Candace Leach — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 12:10:23 -0400

If they want to serve I would support them if they can complete the mission and can do their job, lead, and also holds a high physical standards just like the rest of us, by all means I support their decision to serve. I don't judge anyone period and if they are happy with who they are and complete the mission than I support them. Only less than 1% of America have served in the military.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Jul 13 at 2015 2:42 PM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:42:36 -0400

Pentagon readying plan to lift transgender ban ...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pentagon-readying-plan-to-lift-transgender-ban/ar-AAcVpjE

Pentagon readying plan to lift transgender ban

The Associated Press has learned that Pentagon leaders are finalizing plans aimed at lifting the ban on transgender individuals serving in the military.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Oct 6 at 2015 9:40 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Tue, 06 Oct 2015 09:40:51 -0400

Thanx for that, I think??

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Oct 8 at 2015 10:08 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Thu, 08 Oct 2015 22:08:43 -0400

I've given this a lot of thought and a lot of study on the subject. I totally feel that ANYONE has the right to serve as long as they are healthy and are gun hoo to our Country. Who am I to tell someone that they can't serve? And that's including a transgender who by the way is really just a person who is of the gender who is in the wrong body. A lot of medical study has been done on this and these folks are not "sick" whats so ever. I actually do know some and they are Police Officers and Doctors etc. They are totally professional in both in their jobs and at home. You would never know that they were "trans". I have heard a lot of hatred type of things said towards them and it is only because people don't know about the subject matter and or just don't care to take the time to look it up and OR rather listen and read the garbage crap on it. Having been an NCO and a Soldier comes to me and tells me that their transgender, I would be very understanding and try my best to get them the help they needed. I would hate to lose that Soldier specially if their a good one....

Response by PO1 Jackson Plant made Oct 10 at 2015 10:14 AM

PO1 Jackson Plant — Sat, 10 Oct 2015 10:14:46 -0400

Transgender is not homosexual so the change in policy does not fix that issue. A premise were missing is serving is that a service not a right. Great hardworking loyal people are kicked out daily for not being able to serve anymore. I hear fair being used, is it fair a person is 1% over body fat or can't run as fast as others gets forced out? No but falls under what's needed for the job. Diabetics, epileptics, AIDS, back and knee problems all can disqualify us from serving, yet a still classified mental issue we want to now say feel free to come in and we will treat you? To compare this with race is disejinous at best. It was 30 years ago we laughed at cpl Klinger on MASH trying to get out with a section 8 because it was a mental illness and the last I heard it still is considered that. I'm not downplaying their patriotism or bravery, however just because rules can change to allow everyone to be able to serve should we allow everyone to serve? Just my thoughts.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Oct 12 at 2015 4:32 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:32:28 -0400

So you can't draw the line anywhere? That person is so fit you would trust him oh I mean her with your life. I hear they are going to down grade Pedifiles. Saying they are born that way. As well as people who commit murder. It was inevitable they are born that way. So we are downsizing the military but making room for transvestites. don't call them transgender. They can change their clothes, wear a wig and makeup. But they will always be the way they were born.

Response by SPC Geoffrey Jenkins made Oct 23 at 2015 8:50 AM

SPC Geoffrey Jenkins — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 08:50:58 -0400

Transgenders should never be able to serve in the military.It would give the US Military Veterans a slap in the face.This is not France or Europe where the gay's and others have a voice.This a social issue and the military has no interest in those affairs.We are in the business of protecting our country and the citizens.That's the way I felt when I served and still do to this day!

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Nov 29 at 2015 7:56 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 19:56:37 -0500

If they can't make up their mind about their sexuality I don't want to be in combat with them. They should NOT be accepted for military service. If I find one out I will report them within the hour. No, No, No! Can't believe no one has replied to this original post in a year! And male to female is 90%? So they had their _ _ _ _ cut off to do this? Shudder! And Command Post, remember that you asked for comments. Let them go enlist in Denmark, probably no social stigma there at all....
Thanks,
Rick

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2015 8:16 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 20:16:27 -0500

Yes. No.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 30 at 2015 9:10 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 09:10:22 -0500

To be quite honest, we knew that gays and lesbians were in the military long before the don't ask don't tell rule applied. If I was still in service I would rather they be upfront and not have to hide who they are. This way I can deal with them a whole lot better knowing then finding out in a way that normally doesn't go well.

Response by MSG Jan Glock made Nov 30 at 2015 12:19 PM

MSG Jan Glock — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:19:34 -0500

While I am personally sick of 'political correctness' and find "transgender" distasteful, if someone meets the standard they meet the standard, and if they do not, then they don't. It really is that simple. The standards for military Service are there for good reason, and for good order. I will leave it there. Thank you.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Dec 4 at 2015 2:31 AM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 02:31:28 -0500

First of all....The MTF (Male to Females) don't "cut" their penis off. So that right there tells me that SGT. Ash has not done any reading on the subject what's so ever, and I assume he chooses not to because he rather be naive on the matter and be hateful towards those who are transgender? That's what I gather by reading his post. I'm not being a jerk towards him (you Sgt.) only trying to be more adult on this subject matter. You and others of course are entitled to your opinion and voice what you think such as I can. I defend some transgender folks because I know some who are serving and who did serve and you would be shocked that you didn't even know that you sat right smack next to one and didn't even know it. There are Doctors and police officers who are transgenders who served right along side me during war time and I was honored to have them next to me! They don't act any different then you and I....And by the way, they know their gender pretty much by the age of 3. So that comment of not knowing and or can't make up their minds of what sex they want to be is very off the mark. But that just tells me how much you don't know, and un-willing to learn. But you rather say cruel things.....And that's just very sad to me. Again, I'm allowed to voice my concerns as you all are and I'm not bashing anyone. I'm trying to educate. I look at all of you as fellow brothers and sisters.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 5 at 2015 12:46 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 00:46:53 -0500

First off I am thinking of transgender as someone who has been operated on to alter their reproductive organs. In my opinion, anyone who simply dresses, acts or self idendifies as the opposite sex that they were born as are gays that are cross-dressing. While cross-dressing off-duty is an entirely different can of worms I don't think it would be fair to the military population as a whole to force them to share community hygiene areas and billets with what amounts to be the opposite sex. Also a service member should follow the Physical Training and Uniform Standards of the sex they currently are, not what they self identify as.
I think the crux of the matter, and a genuine concern, is if the Military starts recruiting people with gender identity issues who haven't resolved them yet. Unlike recruiting a gay person, someone who is transgender is unhappy with their physical sexuality to the point they feel the need to surgically alter it.
Face it, our recruiting focus is mentally, physically and morally ( by that I mean lack of a criminal recod) qualified citizens age 18-25. There are very few transgender individuals who have mentally and physicallky resolved this issue by that age.
Accepting pre-operation trans-gender recruits is simply a bad investment by the military, unless they are ready to serve their entire enlistment without gender reassignment surgery. Kristen (formally Christpher) Beck served 20 years in the US Navy then elected to have transgender service after retirement, without government funding.
In my opinion someone with Gender Dysphoria has a pre-existing medical condition that should not to be considered to be service connected once they enlist. "Corrective" surgery is a long process involving intensive pre-op and post-op counseling and therapy which will mean a lot of lost duty days.
Why should the military accept an enlistee who they know will be not physically fit for duty most of their initial enlistment?.
As far as post operation transgender individuals who are well adjusted and are qualified to serve, I have no issues with them serving like anyone else.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Dec 10 at 2015 11:53 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:53:53 -0500

I am not PC. If they were born with a Penis, they are a male and they dress, act and are treated as such. If they were born with a Vagina just the opposite. If they want to play act off duty that is their own private business. Their sex life is not my business as a soldier. Their on duty behavior is. Their public appearance represents the military and should be the same as on duty. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their home sexually is none, and should never be my concern, keep it private.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Dec 17 at 2015 11:42 AM

LCpl James Robertson — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:42:54 -0500

First of all I have never had a class given by the Government to explain Transgender and the LGBT. Personally I don't know what there likes are wants are which bathroom and showers do they use if its open bay showers as it were many years ago. The Government need to explain in classes who are these people, or you will have discriminatory practices. As a retired police officer, I do remember taking to jail what I thought were a male and listed the person being arrested as male. That what I thought were a male were placed into the male population of jail. Days later the County Jail called and stated this inmate had been having sex with about all the males in jail, it turned out to be more women then man, the complete operation hadn't been completed to move all the penis. She had to be put in a segregated cell for her own protection.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Dec 18 at 2015 3:12 AM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 03:12:13 -0500

I could care less about the you and more about the version of U that is a Soldier. So hide your makeup, take out the zucchini and your stocking stuffers. You will wear the appropriate uniform of the day as just that, appropriately. You will serve with honor and distinction, in accordance with all FMs and TMs and you will do so while rendering the proper respect. I will be documenting your praise worthy attributes as well as your negative counselings. If I feel and demonstrate your failure, you will leave MY ARMY faster than you can say Thank you Wong Foo....

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 18 at 2015 8:42 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 08:42:28 -0500

I honestly would rather know upfront, than to find out the wrong way and it be some big surprise!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2015 11:02 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:02:47 -0500

I always wonder if "they" who ever they are (Gay, Trans Gender, Trans Sexual, Trans whatever) are serving in silence where to people get these numbers from......15,500 seems like a pretty specific number for folks who are "in hiding".......this kind of reporting make me distrust the source as I figure they just took some random study study and then extrapolated the data against the raw number of military members and then presented it as "fact."

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Dec 18 at 2015 12:41 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 18 Dec 2015 12:41:34 -0500

It used to be serving your Country. Now it is about who you want to sleep with or dress up as.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Dec 21 at 2015 11:58 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 23:58:16 -0500

I happen to know for a fact that there is some transgender Military GOOD Soldiers and Airman that ARE serving right this second and they are doing one hell of a job too....Funny thing is is that you wouldn't even know it if you were standing right smack next to them either!! One guy I almost fell out of my seat when I saw him and then later learned his so called secret. And I didn't give a crap either. All that mattered to me is that HE kept on doing the fine job that he was doing and Soldier on! He was more of a man then the next guy. It's only jerks that would make a big issue that would ruin his or her lives when and if they found out, because they don't want to learn about it. It's in the brain and not between theirs legs.....

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2016 8:57 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Feb 2016 08:57:41 -0500

Actually they can't be separated because separation authority is withheld at the the Department of Defense level. As far as the question about should they be accepted for military service the answer rests with our civilian leaders, the President and Congress regardless of our personal beliefs. We execute and enforce policy; we don't make it.

Response by MSgt Rena Schmidt made Apr 8 at 2016 3:48 PM

MSgt Rena Schmidt — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 15:48:44 -0400

AND?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 1:16 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 13:16:15 -0400

What about Military Service is "Fair?" You answer that question (truthfully and Honestly) you can find the answer to the question about Transgender service members.

My Problem: As a Supervisor, how do I keep my subordinates safe and on target when they decide to be individuals and go against the grain? Hell, it is their choice to do so, but when it goes against our standards and degrades unit cohesion and effectiveness our leaders have to step in.

What is the true answer? IS the military going to have to do away with Sex Distinguished Restrooms? What about Lodging Commendations? Are we going to have to consider the members' sex when assigning lodging?
What about those that will "Self Identify" just to be around the opposite sex? I can see a high rate of sexual assaults when we start taking so much into consideration.

How about this: Read up on the Enlisted Force Structure (for your service), look at what you (at your rank) are supposed to do, and stick to that.
Read up on the UCMJ and stop violating it.
Read up on your Service's Core Values and live by them.
Treat everyone you come in contact with, with respect and how you want to be treated.
Start acting like Damned Service Members and not a bunch of school children.
Start understanding there are more important things than your feelings and what you want.
Lastly, When you start feeling like you need to be something you were not born as, walk in their shoes (literally) for a little bit before you make a choice to change who you are. That change is going to take lots of medication and hormones for the rest of your life, and even surgery. Be careful. Once you start being who you are not, you will never find out who you really are.

"God Don't Make No Junk!"

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jul 28 at 2016 10:44 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:44:43 -0400

So know Rally point is now transgender point. Please rename it. Being in the military is about serving your country.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Aug 3 at 2016 5:48 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:48:31 -0400

This seems to be pretty well settled by recent enactments of DOD. Maybe the worst is over for these folks.

Response by SMSgt Alan Saunders made Aug 5 at 2016 10:05 AM

SMSgt Alan Saunders — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:05:48 -0400

Transgendered individuals who hide their biological gender (born as a boy or a girl) for the purpose of pretending to be someone they are not, are lying to those around them and would be guilty of enlistment fraud as a result. On the medical side of this, the DSM still classified Gender Dysphoria (PC term) as a mental health syndrome which is treatable and therefore changeable. Given that, it would seem the mental health community believes transgender people choose to change how they view themselves and therefore render the "genetic" argument invalid. Therefore, IMHO, the ban should stay in place.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Aug 30 at 2016 11:30 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:30:08 -0400

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/22/journal-transgenderism-not-supported-by-scientific-evidence/

Journal: Transgenderism ‘Not Supported By Scientific Evidence’

Although popular culture and many of the leading media organizations have bought wholeheartedly into the idea that gender identity is something distinct from one's biological sex -- that a man could b

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Sep 13 at 2016 2:23 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 14:23:41 -0400

Maybe it's for the better.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Jun 28 at 2017 2:21 PM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:21:34 -0400

Personally, I don't care how a person identifies themselves unless it becomes such a raging issue that it interferes with "good order and discipline". I do object to the military or VA paying for gender reassignment surgery when we have battle wounded that take three months to get a VA appointment.....

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jun 28 at 2017 4:06 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:06:21 -0400

So there is 15,500 men who identify as Women. And no one has noticed. They don't belong in the military. Its about serving your country. Not your life style.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Jun 9 at 2018 3:00 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 15:00:00 -0400

Okay I dont think I voiced my opinion today as far as you know so brace your self here we go. If I am not mistaken we have made some huge leaps in the area of letting the fairer sex into combat arms holding combat arms MOSs. Example is we now have some female Rangers and some female Infantry Officers. Some women have gone to BUDs and SFAS and I am sure it is only a matter of time before one passes. As I have said a million times I dont care if thats how they want to serve, go for it, just pass the same standard as the men.

I started with that just because, or maybe to show I am a open minded modern man. I will first say I would not allow a person to join any armed service that could not easily spout off what they were, man or woman. That would have to followed up with showing the stuff, a penis or vagina. I would never allow someone to join the armed service with plans of a sex change surgery. The armed service is there to protect the USA that is done by exporting violence not getting pee pees cut off. Call me old school, call me out of touch or whatever you would like but I am right. We have enough issues in the armed service without intentionally bringing in issues that would have much greater investment than payoff. I dont give a shit what kind of special little whatever it is that you need if you are so damn fragile stay at the damn house. We are a volunteer military that is an issue we dont need. I am sorry if you dont like what I wrote, or if I hurt your feelings but I am right. I have worked in all kinds of environments very few nice, I have decades of experience and our service deserves the best, because I would not think twice about putting them in the worst. I need to stop

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 9 at 2018 3:56 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 15:56:36 -0400

Interesting share brother.

Response by SP5 Joel McDargh made Jun 10 at 2018 1:20 PM

SP5 Joel McDargh — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 13:20:29 -0400

I know I will tick a bunch of ya off, but I am not fully in support of transgender. If an individual is that confused about his or her gender then I doubt I could trust said individual being able to distinguish between friend or foe. Not going to lie, I am a staunch conservative which does play a huge role in my beliefs and way of thinking. It is what it is.

Response by Cpl Douglas Loven made Sep 29 at 2018 6:52 AM

Cpl Douglas Loven — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:52:08 -0400

The military is here to defend the country now be subject to the social justice non-sense.

Response by PO2 Russell Houston made May 16 at 2019 11:50 PM

PO2 Russell Houston — Thu, 16 May 2019 23:50:02 -0400

As a straight member I also served in silence....figure it was know ones bussines.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 2:40 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 02:40:27 -0500

Both my grandfather's were ministers, I was a Presbyterian Elder, I was raised in a socially conservative home. The Army, however, is not the priesthood, a religious organization or a social club. It is an organization devoted to the business of killing foreign military personnel and enemy combatants intent on turning the world into a totalitarian state (pick your choice from the extreme right to the extreme left). Who cares what gender a service member is or wants to be? That has nothing to do with the business at hand. What should matter is whether a soldier can do their assigned job well and treat others decently to maintain unit cohesion (this latter point seems to have escaped some of our colleagues in their posts, who try to conceal their personal prejudices under the cloak of "good order and discipline.") If you didn't know someone was transgender, they were hauling the SAW around all day, and they took care of business when in contact with the enemy, would you really care? If you would, then perhaps you might prefer switching to fighting for the Taliban, who would welcome your commitment to ideological purity. Just my two cents.

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made May 24 at 2020 7:23 AM

1SG Alan Boggs — Sun, 24 May 2020 07:23:06 -0400

Oh boy, let me take a stroll through this mine field
In my opinion, here's the real issue. Let's just imagine our would be "patriot" is actually a would be transgender who has it all figured out.
Step one, join the military for 4 years

Step two, after basic training, said soldier starts the process of being diagnosed so they can seek tax payer funded gender reassignment. This will likely be a long process of medical appointments that will put the soldier on a limited duty profile

Step three tax payer funded (Tricare) sexual reassignment surgery. Again a lengthy period of limited duty profile

Step 4 about the time their profile clears they ETS likely having never performed in their MOS in any meaningful way.

Response by TSgt George Austin made Oct 9 at 2020 1:21 AM

TSgt George Austin — Fri, 09 Oct 2020 01:21:36 -0400

Whew. This will hurt. I am, of course, from the old school before single moms turned their boys into confused Ken dolls. How is a kid that hears constantly how men are shit, your dad is an a-hole supposed to act. If a boy does not know what a pee pee is for at 20 and a girl cannot figure which end babies come from, HOW for the love of life can you trust them with a weapon and the training to use it quite effectively. Give them free tuition and send them to Portland/Seattle/Minneapolis to college where they will make them/it a celebrity. Sorry if my reply pisses you off but PC culture is destroying America. Diversity is 50 states, all different all together. Not little clans fighting over issues. Melting pot, remember. I know I am a sarcastic f.

Response by GySgt Sarah Klimm made Dec 30 at 2020 8:30 PM

GySgt Sarah Klimm — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 20:30:27 -0500

Not fair! I served in silence for 23 years!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 8 at 2021 2:28 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Fri, 08 Jan 2021 14:28:44 -0500

The services by right ought to and justifiably do discriminate. Too fat, too thin, too short, too tall, education not up to snuff, legal issues, member of a gang, etc. I think the services should be very slow to change and careful about how that happens. There are more ways to serve than in the military.

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Feb 20 at 2021 6:24 AM

SGT Lorenzo Nieto — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 06:24:36 -0500

I don’t give a shit what you are when the fighting starts your butt better be right there with me defending that line you punk out I might just give you to the enemy.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jun 22 at 2021 4:55 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 16:55:27 -0400

Why do people need to be loud and proud? No matter what, people are going to be judgmental, people are going to discriminate, and why give them those chances? Only time I need to know is when you have abdominal pain and I need to work you up with a uterus or do a straight cath (kits are longer in males). I do not care who you sleep with, what clothes make you feel whole, but I do take issue that you feel I need to know and accept your personal life. Love who you want to love, I will do the same, and everything will be lovely.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Jun 22 at 2021 7:48 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:48:58 -0400

I am so glad that they are out of the closet of our society!

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Jun 22 at 2021 7:50 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:50:03 -0400

I surely remember dont ask dont tell, because I had to do those chain teaching sessions!

Response by SGT Leonard Frank made Aug 31 at 2021 4:45 PM

SGT Leonard Frank — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:45:26 -0400

Funny question in a way, if they are being discreet seems like there is no real problem, Personal time of their own is their time. Now if I am out in the park and it is a holiday and the rainbow people are also out celebrating and low and behold their is my colonel dressed to the nines. well nay be a problem. Quick true story, NJ circa 1977 I am living in an apartment in Piscataway NJ my upstairs neighbor is a nice guy, one day he is in his dress greens, he is a colonel in the NG or Reserve. Wow who knew, then It seems he has male friends over no female, and then of all things cops come to my house asking if I know anything about him, no, not really, why? well he was murdered, but the crazy sounds you heard were because he was in the last stages of VD. Now service people, than man knew how to keep a secret!

Response by PO1 Mark Koenig made Sep 24 at 2021 8:35 PM

PO1 Mark Koenig — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 20:35:08 -0400

If the UCMJ allows it and the military clear eyed embraces the mental health issues that go along with this level of inclusion.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Apr 26 at 2022 10:54 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:54:51 -0400

If they are qualified and can do the job I don't care if they're purple and want to use an outhouse rather than a sex designated bathroom. I've got a little history in this area, during my first B-52 Arc Light deployment our copilot was gay. Of course back then you couldn't mention or think about it, but his sexual orientation didn't keep him from being an Instructor, Standardization Evaluation Copilot, ie one of the most qualified in the Wing.

Response by MSG Dianne Whipple made Jun 25 at 2022 7:47 PM

MSG Dianne Whipple — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 19:47:00 -0400

No they don't belong in our military.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Jun 29 at 2022 4:51 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:51:43 -0400

Focus should be on the mission of the US military not all this never-ending BS

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 3 at 2022 1:47 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Sun, 03 Jul 2022 01:47:37 -0400

I, as a tax payer, don't care what or who joins the military; however, I want my money to go to good use. I don't need, Bill or Betty joining the military for a free operation and then get out for cause. After the first enlistment, fine, get them the surgery they need, but on the first enlistment, hormone therapy to prepare them for surgery.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Jul 4 at 2022 12:29 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 12:29:27 -0400

The US Military has standards and to go around those standards is not good for the "Order". There are a lot of people that want to be in the military but cannot enlist due to their not meeting the standards. Felons, High School dropouts, overly heavy applicants, 15 year old's, and the list goes on... There has never been an issue in the military that is addressed by "Fairness". Those that do not meet the current standards should be barred from enlisting!

Response by SFC Jeremy Darnell made Jul 7 at 2022 1:47 AM

SFC Jeremy Darnell — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 01:47:16 -0400

What most of you are not taking into consideration is constant need for hormone therapy. If someone has a medical condition that requires constant medication such as diabetes or asthma they are medically discharged because they are non deployable as medication can't be guaranteed. How is this any different. So besides all the other issues, this alone disqualify on medical terms. Then you have all the psychological issues, time issues, pt standards, and other issues. So no I do not think there is a place for this in our mitary.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 24 at 2022 12:24 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 12:24:22 -0400

No. Fair should NEVER be a term used to justify recruitment. Fitness should. Are they mentally and physically able to do the job required in the harshest environments with minimal cost in money, training, and integration. The answer is a solid NO.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Jul 24 at 2022 2:33 PM

SSG Jack Scott — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:33:28 -0400

Gender dysphoria is a mental issue like any other medical issue! And should exclude such persons from service as any other medical condition. If you have to many medical issues you can/will be barred from service but now this has changed. Trans people spend thousands of dollars and time in medical treatment. This takes away from the mission and training and combat effectiveness. Now the Military’s mission is Social justice and “FREE” Trans medical treatment. The cost and resources wasted takes away from other needed medical treatment for service members and dependents. If you have too many children of a few pins in a knee or shoulder you will be denied entry just the social justice warriors can have as many medical issues as they want this is horse $hit!

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2022 2:27 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:27:48 -0400

I believe one facet of the military's problem is that they no longer require people to become part of the military. Some people join and instead of conforming to the military they want the military to conform to them. Senior military and civilian leadership is more than happy to comply to the individuals demands. It isn't just the transgender issue there are others. When the team sees some individuals getting special treatment it erodes cohesion and motivation. Special treatment for some isn't new just more prevalent today.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2022 8:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 20:24:22 -0400

Dont care who serves. At The end of the day when war happens not enough military then its a Draft. Lets go!!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 4 at 2022 8:37 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:37:11 -0400

Not getting into politics, however, it is my thought that service is not an issue and all people can stand side by side and fight.

There are several issues associated:
1. The athletic ability and physical testing of fitness. Since these scores matter in promotion, it may set an unfair advantage for grade selection.

2. As long as it is considered an Elle river surgery the government should not pay.

3. There should only be open access to the gendered latrines after the person is transformed. This has to be respected as those entering on both sides should be made to feel safe.

Not all encompassing and not, and until all is figured out there has to be sone sort of knowledge of past gender. Otherwise how do you manage any and all issues.

This is a very complex situation, no one she be made to feel unsafe and uncomfortable in their own skin. That goes in all directions.

I hope this is taken in the intended context.

Thank you.

Response by TSgt John Brody made Sep 4 at 2022 7:26 PM

TSgt John Brody — Sun, 04 Sep 2022 19:26:25 -0400

Transgender people have some serious mis-wiring going on in their brains. This disqualifies them for service.

Response by PO3 Steven Guess made Sep 12 at 2022 3:51 PM

PO3 Steven Guess — Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:51:51 -0400

Since when has the military become a social justice warrior experiment? (Ok, the navy started in the early 70s with uncle zoomie). The military has NOTHING to do with fair, and definitely not a transgender experiment. Your only job as a member of the armed forces is to make it succeed at breaking things and killing people better than any other military and everything I've read and heard talking to people in the military says that we've got a problem.
The whole point of boot camp is to break you down and remake you to fit the mold, not worry if you might get your feewings hurt.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Sep 12 at 2022 9:32 PM

SSG Jack Scott — Mon, 12 Sep 2022 21:32:08 -0400

Remember when the mission came first and mental health issues barred you from service! I miss the good old days of hard training and prepping for deployments! Not changing my sec before the next PFT to get a better score. Remember you can be in 400th place on the mens swim team, but join the women's and take 1st place!

Response by SGT Tami Ramos made Sep 29 at 2022 10:42 AM

SGT Tami Ramos — Thu, 29 Sep 2022 10:42:02 -0400

I am ok with trans agender personnel serving if they are genuine about doing so and not just in service to get their transition paid for. Personally, I think the transition should take place before or after service and a waiver should be in place stating that anything related to the transition will not be covered medically during or after service. If the person is ok with this, then come one, come all. My husband and I have a friend who transitioned while in service with their own funds. That person has since gotten out, became a law enforcement officer in TX and is lovin' life. We also was able to meet ex-navy seal, Kristen Beck in my little western MD town. Great conversation. Unfortunately, some pull off the transition much better than others - like Blair White. However, the service should be uninterrupted and have no need for medication or medical intervention or such when doing your job in a wartime situation. If you allow this it is a weak link in the chain of success.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Oct 4 at 2022 6:30 PM

CAPT Edward Schmitt — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 18:30:36 -0400

No, they should not be in the military. They have a mental condition, sexual dysphoria, and need to deal with that before joining.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Oct 9 at 2022 5:02 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 17:02:09 -0400

In order to make it "FAIR" we would eventually have to support and pay for gender reassignment surgery. That would mean people whose ONLY real reason to join is free gender reassignment surgery. That is NOT the proper motivation to serve. It also means that the majority of their tour would be spent on light duty and dealing with the transition. Either way, they are NOT joining and serving for the right reasons and I will NOT trust them in combat. Get the surgery on your own and maybe then we will talk of military service.