Trouble with a junior enlisted soldier. Any advice?

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:04:34 -0400

I am a new NCO and I am having an issue with a PV2 that is in my team. I am always having to hunt him down and constantly make sure that he is staying engaged in the daily duties. Outside of the military setting when it comes to communication over the phone or text messages or emails, I hardly ever get a response to let me know that he acknowledges what I am trying to relay to him. I am trying to find out if anyone has come across the same issues and want have you done to correct said issues? What might work in my situation? Thanks for any advice in advance.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 12:12 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:12:30 -0400

Yes sir. I thought of that afterwards and tried to edit it but I don't know how.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 12:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:12:59 -0400

You should be seeking mentorship from the first SNCO in your NCO support channel.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 12:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 12:15:42 -0400

Sit him down face-to-face and counsel him on your expectations. It is important to ask his expectations of you also. Be understanding but firm and let him know consequences of ignoring future communications. You may want to talk to your platoon sergeant ahead of time and give him a heads up also. That way, if the Soldier claims you are picking on him you PSG will already be aware of the situation. After the counseling, do not be afraid to write him, assign extra duty, etc.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 9 at 2015 1:23 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:23:12 -0400

Words that should have to be uttered by a leader; "I'm a NCO" and "I'm having issues with a Soldier". While this isn't not meant to be a knock against you since you are still learning as a newly promoted NCO; just remember, you are the leader; the PV2 is your subordinate.

There is no doubt that Soldiers will test you and your leadership no matter what and the advice you got on here already is great. I echo was MAJ Private RallyPoint Member said; sit the Soldier down. Document exactly what is expected of the Soldier on a 4856. Outline things such as the importance of acknowledging messages sent including text messages and emails. Ensure you express what sort of issues the Service Member will face if he continues to not check in or acknowledge the messages. Get the paperwork started; this will protect you as the NCO and the Soldier. It will remove any doubt and will ensure that you have written proof that the Service Member was instructed and understands those instructions.

If the behavior continues, you continue to fill out the 4856s and if things get to bad, take the packet through your NCO Support Channel for recommendation of actions.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 9 at 2015 1:40 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:40:27 -0400

OK, I'll probably get some heat but everyone is talking Step 1. The objective is to see if this soldier can be an effective team player without wasting too much organizational resources getting there. You are a new NCO with a problem that you'll see again and the service sees every day. You better have a mentor (not in your direct chain) bringing you along and the next two up from you had better know about that soldier and be able to help and grow you in the process. If not, they aren't doing their job. Use your CoC to come up with a plan.

Make sure there isn't a hidden thing going on like family death, divorce, etc. that is driving the behavior. If nothing external, you're likely dealing with a poor person/job fit, but don't know if reasonable changes will make it work out. That's what the plan is for.

BTW, the Plan probably 90% exists. It's the result of how the Skipper wants to run the organization, what authorities are delegated, expectations of behavior, etc. Commands have dealt this this all the time and shouldn't be reinventing the wheel. The SEL should have it in the hip pocket. I was BIG on that in my CO jobs. The 10% left over is to customize for the particular situation.

You need Expectations and a Plan for when expectations are not met by anyone.

Step 1. Get the soldier in a box. Everyone seems on board. Make sure the expectations are the same you have for everyone and they have been communicated, to everyone together. They should be in line with what your bosses want from you and themselves. Review them, adjust, and then broadcast. You don't want to become the "problem" in trying to solve one.

Step 2. Work out with your CoC what responses will be supported when there are misfires. Concurrent with that, you should get schooled up on administrative procedures with the potential end point of separation. Too many times everything freezes with the "now what?". When a plan is developed, your seniors should tip off the Senior Enlisted Advisor about the good work the junior leaders are doing to help bring a soldier along. Nothing like a blow up catching the Skipper and SEL off guard. The SEL will weigh in on what point the Come to Jesus meeting will occur and when she/he will do it.

Step 3. Communicate the "improvement plan" to the soldier explaining what the consequences of improper behavior are and that the soldier essentially makes the decision on punishments. It's the "If-Then". Make sure the soldier also has some carrots in that proper behavior opens things up and how life is better being part of the team. That's important because when someone is in hack, the world seems confining and there's no way out.

Step 3. CoC implements with conviction. If a proper plan, everyone else will also benefit by seeing the results and grow confidence in the CoC. Catch the soldier doing a good thing and reinforce that. You should be doing that to everyone all the time anyways.

A few style points.

Praise publicly and chastise privately. All a public chewing out does is shame and drive people the wrong way and demonstrate it's about your ego. This rule goes away when bullets are flying because you don't have time to pause the incoming rounds looking for the touchy-feely solution.

Make time to sit down with the soldier on a regular basis to discuss progress. If you care, act it.

Identify the jumping off points wherein your seniors step in. If that happens, don't beat yourself up as a failure. Faithful implementation of the plan is what you're responsible for. The plan did include what work the seniors will encounter and they should be prepared to support you.

The SEL will get involved at some point. The Enlisted Community has a strong incentive to keep things in house. That's what NCO's do. NCO's hate it when some Junior Officer jumps in typically knowing far less, being less capable than you, and invariably making the problem worse. The SEL will make sure to get the word out to "hands off" and this is the point you're needed sir/ma'am. Junior Officers out there, listen up. Always rely on the strength of the NCO community and learn from it. There are points where you make a huge difference. Learn them and execute properly.

Be prepared to move on when the system fails. Back in O-4 days had a problem E-8 that I did all the "right" things on which resulted with a "you're going nowhere eval" signed by the Skipper and then the Skipper and SEL whimped out when the E-8 went into whine mode. I had to force myself not to play all the mental what if games. Of course no plan is perfect. You just have to focus on doing the right thing and that even so, sometime things don't work out. You'll gain experience that will help you encourage the system to do better next time.

It's OK if the plan results in separation. Remember the not too much resources piece of the objective. There are many other productive things your energy can go to.

Finally, CONGRATS on your joining the NCO community. You can be proud of you achievement. Bonus points if you're humbled by the promotion. The world always expands with each step up. You'll make mistakes but if your heart and energy is in the right place, you'll do fine.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 1:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:56:51 -0400

3 words : Smoke. His. Balls!

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Apr 9 at 2015 2:24 PM

MAJ Haris Balcinovic — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 14:24:50 -0400

Welcome to the NCO Corps SGT. Every unit in the military has that guy (or that gal) :)
This is what your NCO chain of support is for, there should be plenty of NCOs in your unit who have some sort of experience with this individual.

But as a starter - sit that Soldier down for a nice counseling session, and explain what your expectations are, and what the repercussion are if they're not met.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Apr 9 at 2015 5:12 PM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 17:12:14 -0400

Make your that you are keeping "written" documentation of this Soldier's transgressions. If you don't and this issue turns into a UCMJ issue than you will be the one that has explaining to do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 5:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 17:42:43 -0400

You could seek help on getting a shell of counselling, make sure you make your initial, and monthly as well. The sheet for counselling (DA4856) is very easy to follow, but all the points in bullets, tell him his job description, what his performance should be, that you expect him to take care of his own stuff, like Medical readiness (checked on his AKO), APFT, Weapons Qual, and more important communication.

You have gotten very good advice already, but if you prepare before your counselling, putting all the minutae in your statement, and read it to him, point by point, your counselling would be organized. Just set the rules when you start the counselling, and explained what type of counselling is. I have gotten all sorts of shells, as acting PLTSGT, SQD LDR, TMLDR, Instructor, etc. If you want me to email them to you, would gladly do so.

Now, to the question of gauging his understanding, ask him to back brief and tell you back point what point what he understood of all of that, and when you have a chance ask him what is bothering him, or what does he expects from his service. It is important you get to know him. I also have personal Data Sheets, very useful, that way you can keep all his information with you, and impress your leadership as well. This data sheet includes family, uniforms sizes, last quals dates, schools, etc, names and numbers for next of kin, feel free to make contact with them. It is extremely important you get to know your soldiers, and know what ticks them, and find the best way to motivate them, or giving them the tools.

Hope you understand what I am trying to convey here.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 6:19 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 18:19:15 -0400

All the time. Find out if he has any at home issues and go from there. If not, get to know him a little better, and find out what kind of growing up life he had. Last, make him painfully aware of his duties to you and yours to him

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 9 at 2015 10:16 PM

MSG David Chappell — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 22:16:36 -0400

Your the NCO you bring him in for remedial training and put it in writing then you stay there until he is done. If he lives off post move him into the barracks then you PT him until someone in his family dies.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2015 11:42 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 23:42:34 -0400

Thanks for all the advice. It was all very well received. Thanks again.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 12:04 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 00:04:36 -0400

What I did with my worst no call/no show 'problem soldier' was a process in counseling statements. Gave initial counseling, problem started, next counseling statement laid out the consequences for next issue. Happened again, took 1 UTA from the soldier, the plan laid out the next steps as 2 UTA's, 4 UTA's, then separation. After the first UTA went missing from the soldiers check, never had another issue. Soldier became a valuable part of the company and went on deployment.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2015 2:01 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:01:40 -0400

Along with the counseling that everyone's mentioned, so some research to be better informed. Talk with other NCOs in the soldier's sphere of influence to see if these issues have preceded your promotion or assignment.

There may be outside circumstances that are influencing the negative behavior that needs to be addressed.

Seek input from PSG, 1SG, and a junior enlisted peer that you trust and may provide a point of view from that level

Response by LTC Gavin Heater made Apr 10 at 2015 2:21 AM

LTC Gavin Heater — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 02:21:50 -0400

Service in the Armed Forces is a privilege. If you can turn your young Troop around, that is preferable. If not, pursue progressive discipline. If that does not work, begin separation actions. Discuss his case with peer NCOs and senior NCOs. They may have experienced similar circumstances and may have a achieved equitable results. Good luck workign this out. Unfortunately, this will not be the only time you will have this challenge in your career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 12:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:45:21 -0400

First things first. Congratulations on your promotion. You are now responsible for a team. Belive me when i say that getting this down is what will make you or break you as a senior nco. I am assuming your squad leader has given you direction as to how to proceed so this is general advice. Fist and formost. Your people are not mind readers! Assume nothing. If you want an acknowledgement text, tell them. Then there are no doubts. Second counseling,counseling, counseling. Do the initial- dont just throw somthing together, think through what your expectations are and then put it to paper. Doing this puts everyone one the same page. Third follow through. If 1st time late means a counseling statement, do it. I dont care if its your best guy do it. Your people will soon see that you are consistent. And lastly pay attention. Trust your experience. If somthing seems wrong its your job to help. Your people look to you for leadership and thats part of it. If you can master those three things, you will have laid a most excellent foundation for the rest of your career as an nco

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 27 at 2015 10:42 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:42:55 -0400

Have you completed an initial counseling on that Soldier? If you have or not, go ahead and do another counseling statement outlining what is expected of him. Obviously, he is young and he needs some maturing to do. I do not think you need to come down hard on him, yet. Help him grow professionally and personally. Find out what was his home life like. I am willing to bet, he treats the same way he treated his parents when was living at home. You must also have him realize, this is the real world where we must act like adult but conduct ourselves as Soldiers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 11:24 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 11:24:46 -0400

I see a lot of responses that recommend counseling (initial or otherwise). Clearly, I am not an NCO, nor have I held a position where I have needed to be responsible for others.(yet) However, speaking as a lower enlisted that had a great relationship with my NCOIC I can tell you how he earned my respect. Rather than just doing formal counseling we sat down and had a conversation. About who I was, where I came from, personal and professional goals. Counseling are great for the soldier that is squared away. But for some, it may take a deeper connection. Maybe there is an underlying issue he needs help dealing with. The more you learn about that soldier the more change you will be able to see and/or get out of them. My personal opinion.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made May 14 at 2015 12:31 PM

SFC Douglas Duckett — Thu, 14 May 2015 12:31:12 -0400

I had a Soldier once who was chronically late to formation. My solution was additional training on formations; enter the Coin Platoon.

My problem Soldier was issued: 1x $1, 1 x .50, 4 x .25, 10 x .10, 26 x .01.
Coins denoted different positions within the platoon, heads up/down denoted different team leaders or weapons leaders.

Problem Soldier was to be at Company formation prior to scheduled formations with his coins in a standard formation; distances between coins were changed regularly to keep Soldier on his toes. Solider reported to 1SG his platoon's accountability status when required.

This was done for two weeks. Failure to participate or be late would escalate to Company Commander level.

This "remedial training" was annotated on the individuals counseling statement. Needless to say, my Problem Soldier got the point. Formations were no longer an issue.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made May 16 at 2015 9:22 AM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sat, 16 May 2015 09:22:09 -0400

I see lots of good advice being offered here. I'm not sure I can add anything new or relevant but here's what I'd try in your place:

1. Sit the PV2 down for an honest feedback/counseling session
2. Make sure s/he understands your exact expectations of them
3. Make sure they understand the consequences of failing to meet those expectations
4. DO point out the things s/he is doing correctly and emphasize your appreciation for those actions
5. Find out what s/he expects from YOU as a leader
6. Document, document, document. Did I mention document?

We've all had that one problem troop we have to deal with. It may be as simple as finding out what motivates that individual. I had a troop once that all it took to get them to square away was for me to walk by every now and then and say, "Hey. Great job on this". Get to know your troops. You might be pleasantly surprised at how easily they can be turned around.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 4:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:30:36 -0400

The first thing that comes to mind is how the use of counseling instantly resolves these types of situations. Counseling is the most important tool available for a Non Commissioned Officer to be successful. ATP 6-22.1 depicts the types of counselings leaders can use to get their intent across. Write down and map out your expectations, goals and standards of communication for this Soldier. Give the Soldier a timeline of when you expect this change to take place and if the Soldier does not improve then you can utilize these DA 4856s as packets for separation or a Summarized Article 15.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 4:33 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:33:45 -0400

A NCO will not have a problem with a Soldier but a Sergeant will. It takes a NCO to lead Soldiers and model the Army for them. SGTs, however, wears the rank of an NCO and must be groomed by the NCO support channels and at times the Chain of Command on how to exercise the duties of an NCO. Soldiers don't fail except when the leadership fails them. The source of support for a Soldier is their first line supervisor, section, team, and Squad Leader. Observe this Soldier and find out what motivates him/her, seek to understand his desires and find common ground to build trust. When you gain the TRUST, they will do anything for you. You will be a great NCO when you seek to take on the hard headed and turn them into great Soldiers. You got it. Do some gut check and the answers lies within.

Response by SSG Chris Garabitos made May 20 at 2015 9:12 PM

SSG Chris Garabitos — Wed, 20 May 2015 21:12:58 -0400

The Army doesn't require Soldiers to carry cell phones; therefore, your text messages or calls mean nothing in the long run. My advice: assign the task. Tell him that when complete, he returns to you. If he doesn't.. 4856. Have corrective actions for the offense.. Then on the next issue, CLOSE OUT the previous counseling and continue the process. Become smart (not by Google or wiki) on regs like 'separations, UCMJ, flags, and the like. Seek the help of your closest PSG. If not available, open door the 1SG. But before all this, ask those open ended, fact finding questions to hopefully find the true source of the issue and ESCORT him to the appropriate military assistance office. Good luck!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made May 21 at 2015 11:53 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Thu, 21 May 2015 11:53:37 -0400

I've come across that situation more times that I can shake a stick at - ESPECIALLY in BCT-land, where Privates think they know what they're doing. I'd consider taking that PV2 aside (if female, remember she needs a Battle Buddy) - and let that Soldier know it's in his/her long term career interest to acknowledge having received an lawful order with a Yes Sir/SGT as a response. Since you can't read minds, that's the only way you'll know whether he/she heard and understood your directive.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 12:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:08:27 -0400

He's testing your AUTHORITY SGT. Hit him hard then reel him back in. Just my thoughts... To give you proper guidance I would have to give you a face to face counseling myself. However if you are relying on smart devices as a main way to communicate please fix that. I understand things may change after C.O.B and we can't argue over spilled milk, but understand that texting shouldn't be replaced with face to face because you are trying to give Soldiers time because it will bite you in the end.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 21 at 2015 12:10 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:10:09 -0400

You are army, not a burger king manager, if doesn't go to his duty section that's "failure to repair " and disrespect to a nco, both no-no in the ucmj, stop the political correctness and lock his heels

Response by CPT Nik Webb made May 21 at 2015 12:09 PM

CPT Nik Webb — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:09:53 -0400

I haven't read through all responses but most people have nailed it. Counseling all the way.

You need an initial counseling to let your Soldiers know what is expected of them. This needs needs to be followed up with counseling sessions every month to track their progress and realign them if necessary.

If the Soldier continues to not meet the standards of the unit, and more importantly the Army, you need to start hitting him (or her) with negative, event oriented counselings. This paperwork will be necessary for you and your command team to take appropriate action against the Soldier. Whether that be punitive actions or separation.

The Army deserves the best and relies on it's NCO Corps to provide it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 12:33 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:33:47 -0400

SGT, I assume from your post you are having 2 separate issues...#1 command and control during drill #2 sufficient communication between drills.
#1 is pretty straight forward. Counsel on expectations first and then counsel when he/she doesn't live up to your expectations. You could also have them report directly to you however often you need. Try holding squad formation after lunch or at 1400 to get a compass check on your folks.
#2 is more complicated. Again, During your initial counseling session, you can manage expectations by laying out your communication standard for between drills. Remember that between drills the soldier has other responsibilities outside the military and your authority is greatly limited. That said, most soldiers understand that some communication is necessary to ensure readiness and unit success. Discuss with the soldier what is reasonable....weekly or bi-weekly email or text etc. Perhaps a team phone call 3-5 days before drill to make sure everyone is tracking upcoming events, packing lists, schedules etc. I'd start there and if you're not getting results, document through counseling and take the issue to the squad leader...section sergeant etc. It's great that you're concerned and willing to take action appropriately. Good luck!

Response by SSG Robert Blair made May 21 at 2015 12:36 PM

SSG Robert Blair — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:36:34 -0400

The best thing to do is counsel him/her. Be sure to cover: What he/she has done wrong (include the AR section they're in violation of), what the consequences are, what your expectations are and the actions (training) to improve those areas. In these type situations I use a; check in time schedule (be creative, but remember; the training must fit the crime). Counsel him/her once a day for each failure(s) to comply with the expectation.
Keep your leadership up to date on each incident. If it goes on long enough, recommend him for chapter due to failure to adapt.
You are an NCO now. You're not going to have time for these childish activities. They need to know that. Reinforce their ego with things like, "you're a grown man/woman and I expect you to act as a responsible adult". Etc.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 2:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:46:27 -0400

get to know your guy...believe it or not you are his big brother, father, uncle etc. his leader and mentor. His welfare is in your hands and you are charged to take care of him. Find out what makes him work. I hope that no Soldier enlisted just to get a paycheck and that they joined because of their patriotism and urge to be the change our country needs. We all have 10% of soldiers that will engulf 90% of our time but I hope soon that little light goes off and he starts getting "it" good luck to you. Remember, talk to him and then counsel. It's a tricky balance at times brother.

Response by SSG John Erny made May 21 at 2015 3:22 PM

SSG John Erny — Thu, 21 May 2015 15:22:00 -0400

Use the E-4 mafia! Find some high speed E-4's that have stripes on their mind to peer pressure the hell out of him. I am sure the 1SG and the CSM have grass that needs to be mowed, they always do. Take his free time, nothing like extra duty to get young troops attention.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 6:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 18:57:03 -0400

That's an easy one...initial counseling. It will outline your standards, expectations and their duties as a member of your team/platoon/unit. This should also outline the possible consequences for failing to meet those standards and expectations.

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made May 21 at 2015 7:02 PM

LTC Peter Hartman — Thu, 21 May 2015 19:02:17 -0400

I was an NCO before cell phones and text messages. Battle buddy system.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 7:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 19:15:07 -0400

Read a lot of advice on this subject and this is what I do. With the intinal counseling statement already given.
1. Talk with the soldier and see if there is an outside source causing the problem.

2. See who the soldier is hanging out with because this is usually the case as the soldier is hanging out with soldiers getting out or prior active getting into the unit thus give crappy advice to the young solder.

3. Counseling statements with a face to face to inform soldier what is now expected of him and consequence if he does not conform to standards.

9 times out of 10 this works but you will always get that one soldier that no matter how hard you try and care for will not conform and will go AWOL very rare but it does happen.

For us as ARNG number 2 is usually the case as we receive a lot of prior active just using the guard to kill there I.R.R time and they just hate the guard initially and Are not used to how the guard functions. All the Nco's
in my platoon get in on the problem and brainstorm the course of action as each problem soldier is different and as such the causes of the problem.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 7:35 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 19:35:39 -0400

SGT Daffron,

This thread contains the main points for you to be successful: communicate, counsel and engage your senior NCOs for guidance (they should be able to coach you through using the reference you were provided: ATP 6-22.1).
In addition, one thing that was never addressed is that fact that you are a Guardsman. One tool that is readily available to you, but rarely used is how you code your Soldier for pay. "U" is not just for AWOL, it means Unsatisfactory performance during a drill period. If you have communicated (two way) with your subordinate, laid out your expectations and are forced to enforce those standards through discipline, try this tool. They will have spent their weekend thinking they have gotten over on you and will not receive their pay. If they perform poorly for half a day then code them a "U" for one MUTA (drill period/half day), and a "P" for the other. Sometimes Soldiers understand consequences when it affects their wallet more than just a negative counseling. I was given this little used gem from a BN S-1 1SG.
p.s. - Don't forget to edit the (P) off of your rank.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 4:18 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 04:18:18 -0400

I am not fully aware of the Army's formal counseling program; however, I've noticed a few SNCOs and officers refer to a counseling report. Have a face to face formal counseling session, Document and hold on to the official paperwork on your level for a reasonable amount of time and see if you notice a change. If you see the problem correct itself within a month or two, drop it without sending it up the chain. However, I'd it persists, 4 sheets is enough to send it up to the top. But give the benefit of the doubt and try to lead him by a scare tactic of the commands awareness of his inadequacy. Then, like I said, if the problem corrects itself, hold off on sending it to your higher up until you see the trend start again (which hopefully it doesn't)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 6:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 06:37:40 -0400

I feel your pain with this issue. Unfortunately, everywhere you go, you will come across this issue at least once or twice. You have that junior enlisted Soldier that feels it is not his/her responsibility to carry their weight or remain accountable. As a leader, it is your responsibility to find the root cause of this behavior. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying to hold the Soldier's hand and baby them, but you will have to invest that extra time and effort to accurately assess if the Soldier is essentially salvageable, or if it time to show them the door. This kind of behavior can be caused by many different environmental and social factors. Was the Soldier reliable at some point and suddenly went downhill or has the Soldier always been someone that cannot be counted on? Before deciding to show the Soldier the door, find out about their past and get to truly know the Soldier as an individual. Unfortunately, that one "problem child" will take at least 60-80% of your time. A Soldier who does not trust in you as a leader or feels that you do not genuinely care will not open up to you. That may not be the issue in your case, but it is still a factor to consider. How well do you truly know the Soldier to where they feel comfortable talking to you about their issues? If you have already vested this time to get to know the Soldier and shown genuine concern, they do not open up, at least you have done your job properly. Moving on, do you hold your Soldiers accountable for their actions? You mentioned this Soldier is constantly late. To a young Soldier, all that matters is their time and money. Since you cannot tale their money without non-judicial punishment, you can easily take their time. A 2-1 ratio will get the point across. Add up the time the Soldier is late/unaccounted for and have them stay behind and work twice that time after everyone else has been released. You could do it daily or weekly. It all depends on how long the absences are. Just remember to keep a paper trail. Along with that paper trail, if the Soldier shows improvement, male sure to document it so they don't feel you are only focusing on the negative they do. If all this still fails to help steer the Soldier in the right path, then perhaps the military is not for them and you should them steer them to the door.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 7:28 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 07:28:27 -0400

Have a face to face. I know I sound like a broken record, or a mocking bird. But, these NCOs are right. I have only had to counsel one soldier in my career. I started with a face to face, in the smoke pit, over a couple Marlboros. When the conduct was repeated, I did a formal counseling statement, wrote everything out and read it line-by-line, VERBATUM, had him sign it and kept it in my file cabinet. He went a year without any repeat violations. All of my notes and statements were shredded after that year.

Sometimes, it takes more than one attempt. Good luck.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 9:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 09:56:00 -0400

In your initial counseling is where you let the soldier know about your expectations. After that initial then comes the monthly performance counseling a where you tell the soldier about his/her performance. If the soldier is not meeting the standards outlined in your initial counseling counsel the soldier. What I've learned in my experience is the punishment should make the soldier not want to do it again. I read some of the suggestions and they are good but but if you take their time they will learn real quick that you're not playing. Smoking is for a moment paper work cut and paste but time they can't fake that. Extra duty is supervised every day so what ever time the soldier wastes during the day let them make it up after work. Restrictions also help when trying to contact a soldier. Restrict the soldier to the footprint that way you know there are only a handful of places the soldier can be.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 22 at 2015 12:25 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 22 May 2015 12:25:55 -0400

Your question is a bit different, considering you are in the Guard, buy what daily duties are we talking about? The time he is at drill or on AD, he needs to be focused on his military duties but I am not sure how much feedback you need to be concerned with during the rest of the month?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 10:36 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 10:36:23 -0400

First notify your chain of command on what the issue is and the actions you plan to take. Then have a one on one meeting with you and junior personnel. Sit down and talk your expectations, his expectations, the consequences if expectations are not met. Then, remember you must be firm at all angles. Sometimes people have a hard time distinguishing that fine line of friendship /work.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 12:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:23:51 -0400

Seek to understand then be understood. Ask him the five "Ws", then come up with boundaries. You could even give him a taste of his own medicine to prove your point....if he comes in to ask you for a pass or something like that, pull out your phone and start texting people. Send him a text while he's talking to you, saying "how can we connect if we don't practice effective communication", then teach your Soldiers a class on effective communication.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 12:53 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 12:53:44 -0400

Written counseling, mentor ship, always be the professional. worrying about texts is a fine line when it comes to leadership, what if the Soldier doesn't own or have access to a phone with text messaging? However remind the Soldier he is a Soldier 24/7 and his conduct needs to reflect and also make sure everything you do is considered a lawful order.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 1:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 13:33:29 -0400

I'd suggest the same thing I tell a parent who doesn't have control of their teenager: Boss/Parent first, friend second. Make sure they know what you and the Military expect of them and hold them to it.

If they don't look like the type to make a career of the military, hang all the paper you want. If they could make a career of it, make them get muddy and sweaty on the outskirts of a Parade Field.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 2:19 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 14:19:21 -0400

I'm an E4 and I wouldn't dare suggest that I have this locked down or have too much of any experience, but this is what I've learned and what I've had work for me in the past. Getting to know who this person is would probably be the best start. Maybe they have problems at home? If so, that could be driving their motivation down pretty heavily. The rest is just setting standards, getting him and the rest of the platoon all on the same page. Holding everyone accountable to the same standards, including yourself, is a major thing most junior members look for in any leader. No one wants to be called out, especially for something they've seen YOU disregard. That's just my two scents. I hope you get it all figured out.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made May 24 at 2015 2:34 PM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Sun, 24 May 2015 14:34:30 -0400

Wall-To-Wall counseling, it has been known to work.

Seriously tho, This is what counseling statements and non judicial punishment are for. Sit him down and have a come to Jesus meeting with him, and make him understand his responsibilities. If need be, get your NCOIC or section leader involved, but only after documenting your attempts to get him to comply.
You say you are a new NCO, this is not a new problem. You subordinates will try to push your limits, and you need to show them that you cannot be pushed. You can be a nice guy and still enforce compliance, but this is not an easy path. Sometimes, you have to be a jerk, to get them to do what is expected of them.
Remember, that they are your employees first, and friendship and the benefits that may come with it, is optional.

On another note:
Being National Guard has its own challenges. All the suggestions I have seen made are still relevant, but tend to be harder to enforce in that environment. Making him stay in the Armory while everyone else gets to go home could be a nice step. Extra guard duty, KP (if an option) and any other details that can come up. However, nothing beats the documentation of counseling. Every time one of these issues comes up, sit him down and explain to him why he is getting those extra details. Give him a chance to give his excuses (everyone has one), and then send him on his way.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 9:21 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 09:21:33 -0400

You are his leader. Not the other way around. If he goes uncorrected, he will not follow your command under any circumstances. Especially in battle!

Emphasize his responsibilities. Have
him wright them out, and keep them with him. Drill him on them from time to time.
When necessary, implement corrective discipline until he learns to follow through.

Remember. There are two types of soldiers. Smarter, and stronger.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 13 at 2015 9:46 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 09:46:24 -0400

SOS folks. These people are us when we first enlisted. speaking for myself, I was a pain in the butt for my first six years. Eventually the cream rises to the top and become senior enlisted. In the meantime you are the coaches that advise the miscreants and develop them into what we want for career military members. I think back on all the people I was responsible for and remember the ones with all the problems and how I approached them, it was an excellent learning process that served me will way into my second career.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 4:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:39:30 -0400

you only have one them you are lucky man.......lol

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 10:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 22:49:51 -0500

I have been in units that the inmates appear to be running the asylum. Real easy fix. Have a work plan, complete with goals and suspenses, laid out on a regular basis. Use a 4856 to spell out your expectations. I have gone as far as having three chairs outside my office for my "problem" Soldiers to sit in as they wait to brief me in the morning on what their duties are for that day. They sat in the exact same chairs in the afternoon to brief me on what was accomplished. If it warrants more "chair time" they can sit there and give me their mid day brief on progress before they go to lunch. Don't chase them around, simply take their time as they wait for you to let them loose to be productive or leave the work place.Put the communication expectations on the 4856 as well. Play chess, not gab ass with them.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 17 at 2015 1:27 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 13:27:56 -0500

A leash may work..... ;o)

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 8 at 2016 6:50 AM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:50:50 -0500

I am such a dinosaur that I can remember a pre-PC military. You just blew my mind with the concept of management by cell phone. I guess it is the blinding glimpse of the obvious to use the tool in that way. But WOW! I'm' not sure I'd like being the Junior on the end of that leash. I think it is probably a good thing I've been out for active duty for 23 years.

Response by SPC John Lebiecki made Jun 24 at 2016 6:50 PM

SPC John Lebiecki — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 18:50:08 -0400

Initial counselings layout the guidelines of expectations. Make sure they have a copy of it. That way if something is broken from that, then you can turn back to that as a reference point.

Response by SGT Nicholas Eineichner made Jul 3 at 2016 10:23 AM

SGT Nicholas Eineichner — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:23:53 -0400

I had a soldier like that when I first became a team leader, initially I thought he just didn't care. I sat him down and had a heart to heart with him and found out he had a major personal issue going on at home which warranted emergency leave. After getting his leave granted he got to spend some time at home and take care of the issue, when he came back to the unit he was one of the best soldiers in our platoon.

My advice to you is sit him down and show him you care about him as a person, find out why this is going on. If he just doesn't care then it's paperwork time, but just maybe he has something going on and just doesn't have anyone to turn to.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2016 5:27 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:27:51 -0400

My first question to you as a battle is have you talked to him? What's going on in his life? If there is a personal issue then it's your responsibility to help that soldier. Is that an excuse for poor work ethic, not at all.

Second question what's his background? Is this normal behavior or is he just testing you? Again this can be figured out just by talking with him.

Third question. In the events your trying to get ahold of your soldier and he doesn't respond have you talked to his battles or have you gone to his room? It's going to suck but if you can't get ahold of him go see if he's in his room.

After doing all of this you should have a good understanding of your soldier to decide if this is a problem you can handle within your power as the Jr. Sgt or do you need to bring in dad. If you know that nothing you can do will remedy this soldiers behavior then throw the problem up the chain. Eventually this problem will reach a level that does have the authority. If you are out of options always remember that you have the CoC.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2018 12:49 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:49:53 -0400

I agree with the comments regarding counseling, and sitting down for a verbal counseling session is a good place to begin.
However, before you sit down to talk with (counsel) the Soldier, you need to determine what is the standard for a Soldier to respond to a text (or voice message) from you to their personal phone (or email)? Who established that standard, and under what authority?
Hint: A Soldier is a Solider 24-hours a day, but they are not on duty 24-hours.
If there is no established standard, you may want to use the duty day to communicate with your Soldiers-in person. Yes, things change and there will be a need to communicate changes after duty hours, but that should be very infrequent. If it is a regular occasion, the cause for it needs to be fixed first, it's not the Soldier.
Next, you should determine why the Soldier wanders off, and who is supervising this Soldier when he needs to be hunted down. Where are you when this happens?
Establish standards for the duty day (not hunting down), and once you determine what you should expect from texts and emails off duty,
Questions/topics of discussion that come mind include:
I find myself having to hunt you down to keep you engaged, why?
I've sent you text messages and emails, and you haven't responded like I expect, why? (Again, are your expectations realistic and grounded in a real standard).
If unwanted behavior persists, then do formal (written) counseling.
If still persists, corrective training relevant to task/behavior documented in another formal counseling referencing previous counseling. (Note that NCOs can't assign extra duty). Supervise and participate in the corrective training, and document results of corrective training.

Response by SGT David Petree made Aug 6 at 2019 12:11 PM

SGT David Petree — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 12:11:07 -0400

do the counsel , get the PSGT in evolved . learn the troops . get over the fear of righting them up & taking there pay . never threaten them with this or that ,, do what you say.. you only have 1 .. I was an acting SGT with a platoon, for 30 days. I had 6 em`s that keep disappearing. when there pay got short, they went back to work. good luck.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Oct 14 at 2020 12:07 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 12:07:25 -0400

Welcome to the 21st Century. Tell your PV2 your expectations for the unit and get buy in from him. Make sure it is in writing [proof you tried should something backfire on you]. If not successful, elevate it to your supervisor. Paperwork is a must!

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Oct 10 at 2021 8:15 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 08:15:20 -0400

For one thing communicate Directly with Your junior enlisted member in person Yourself. Record everything including times and date for both positive and negative actions and held onto that information Yourself. If no action is needed and He doesn't remain a problem that's fine but if action is needed those times and dates are critical especially if UCMJ action from the Commander becomes needed. You should always do this for ALL those under You supervision anyway, NOT just the problem people. Often, just general statements without time and date supports be they for positive or negative actions don't have much value for any future action. Another word of caution, don't just keep a negative record on any individual and nothing positive, than can and has been used as a defense that You were after him. Be it verbal or written record everything and keep a folder for each and every one of the soldiers under Your supervision

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2021 10:14 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 10:14:36 -0400

Utilize Management by Objective, aka the 10 and 50 program - 50 minutes of supervised work and a strict 10 minute break all day long. After a few days he will be more visible and compliant. A sling blade or similar becomes his T/O weapon until he gets his mind right. We got a lot of problem children from the 1stSgts at Quantico in 1980, and the system (minus violence) works. It's all about communication. Always offer another option, such as NJP, let them decide. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WUyZXhLHMk

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Response by PFC James Carlson made Jun 9 at 2022 12:29 PM

PFC James Carlson — Thu, 09 Jun 2022 12:29:18 -0400

Here is a valid question for you. Have you asked him what may be bugging him to cause this situation? How long has he been on Active duty, is he having family issues, is he suffering from depression, there are way to many variables that could be negatively affecting his performance. Until you know what is going on it's hard to offer advice as to what you can do to remedy the situation. You need more Intel Sergeant. I agree with the other advice here, Sit down and talk with him "off the record" first.