Unsat Leaders are at every level! We've all seen it, what situation really got your goat?

2015-04-05T09:09:50-04:00

I'm sure you've heard the phrase from a leader "Check down, not up!" or "Do as I say, not as I do!"

What was the worst case of double standard that you witnessed - that you actually saw, not talking about a story you read or heard about - interested in that leader that was a walking/talking hypocrite that out expectations of others and did not keep themselves! You do not have to include names but a description of the event would be great.

Have you ever had the leader that expected you to do PT and they'd show up with a cup of coffee, we've all seen it! Is that the worse situation? Hey, don't forget to check down, not up...now move out and execute, give me a call at the house when you are done, as long as its not too late - it's movie night with the family.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 5 at 2015 9:36 AM

2015-04-05T09:36:21-04:00

FUMU! Seen it at every level. It's like nails on a chalkboard. "We'll lets move this SM up to a higher level staff position with strong subordinates to get them out of our unit, they won't be a bother/burden to us then." Even on deployments. I saw my boss give some really good positions away to more than less deserving Os and Es just to get them out of our operations. Then the icing on the cake is watching them receive an award AFTER all the FUs and moves. We had one O in Iraq come back to us after 3 different jobs because no one wanted him due to his incompetence and he still got a Bronze Star. WTF??

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Apr 5 at 2015 9:41 AM

2015-04-05T09:41:46-04:00

I only had one that I recall. Had a Gunnery Sergeant that operated in his own interest. We called him Gunny Garrison. He would hoard office supplies and acted like he was going to save the DoD budget single handed issuing one pen or some other item at a time.

When it came to PT, especially if it was an afternoon session, we would form up to fall out and head back to change for PT. Invariably, he would disappear. We finally started asking him if we would see him at PT. He always had somewhere to be, something to do etc. He never made it past Gunny and was separated right at 20 years. Always amazed me he made it that long.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 5 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-04-05T10:31:25-04:00

I think I. Have seen it all. The commander that is sleeping with multiple subordinates and using his position to de deploy his favorites with him. A 1Sgt that was trading sexual favors for influence, down to the first line supervisor that power trips so bad they get demoted back down.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-04-05T10:43:31-04:00

I have one that stands out heavy in my mind CSM Michael J. Uhlig that was a NCO I had in a previous medical platoon.
At first I didn't know he was a god awful leader until I got some time around him and learned my job a bit more then realized things he'd have taught us were incorrect.

It was the worst kind of leadership, something he didn't know he wouldn't say..."I don't know, but let me get the answer with you" he would lie and make it up, secondly he's knowledge of medicine was also outdated, teaching us older and less effective skills of combat trauma medicine.

Luckily a second NCO finally showed us the right way of doing things and gave us a shining example of a real leader.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 5 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-04-05T11:19:39-04:00

There is a management theory that states people rise to the level of their incompetence. That is they get promoted because they did a reasonable job until they get to the level where they run out of competence. And there they stay and until they seriously f*ck up, they are there for life. This is why these people get in the "do nothing" mode as to "not try" also equals "not fail".

Peter Principle

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-04-05T12:08:07-04:00

Ha! There were so many!!

1. A PLT SGT falling out of runs, telling me to take over. Then I see her telling at others because they did. She was notorious about that.

2. Having a male battle buddy. Always assumed there was something more than just that. Then finding out the senior ranking NCO was having sexual relations with a junior NCO. (SAME PLT SGT)

3. Taking the vehicle to go to chow. But my married NCOIC was allowed to take the vehicle at night to visit whatever hoochie momma he was saying at the time.

4. Volunteering to go on convoy's because I'd much rather get shot at then stay at my FOB with the hypocrites. When I finally had to be put on anxiety medss, I couldn't do convoy's anymore. I got into trouble for volunteering and now got into trouble for not being able too.

5. Dealing with those that were "Mason". I strongly disagree that any soldier should be in such group. A SGT threatens to kick my ass. I told get to bring it only to get into trouble later from another fellow Mason member because I disrespected her. No, I didn't get into trouble.

There are so much more

Not showing up for morning PT...
Showing up drunk in the morning.
Fraternization

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 5 at 2015 12:19 PM

2015-04-05T12:19:15-04:00

I found there is a lot of do as I say not as I do.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-04-05T12:34:16-04:00

We have squadron pt every Tuesday and Thursday. Our flight leaders want everyone to go on Thursday, but do they ever go? Nope, someone covers flying from each shop, but they work in the office, so they don't have flying to cover. It makes me wonder why they can show sometimes but most weeks they don't. Usually it's the people who have mandatory pt, and maybe one or two other people. I hope they are in a weekly meeting or something, because we would be in trouble if we just didn't show.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-04-05T12:50:05-04:00

We need to flush turds rather than pass them around.....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-04-05T12:53:21-04:00

CSM, the one NCO that comes to mind for me has many infuriating qualities. Everyone must show up by 0600 for PT by his standards, yet he consistently strolls up no earlier than 0630. Expects us to put together schools/leave/promotion packets, yet backs away and avoids any questions when asked for guidance. Will take credit for the success of our FO teams when he had no part in the training or operation. Has no interest in taking care of his soldiers, only looks out for his own image. Just a few examples of toxic leadership, which is the biggest reason why some of my peers who are good soldiers decide to ETS instead of reenlist. CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Apr 5 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-04-05T13:26:02-04:00

It's worst when the attitude permeates the entire Command and Staff.
Had a BDE CDR that would review the staff slides. While we were trying to get the format down in a way that would convey the information needed in a cohesive format, he would look at the slides and go "I don't like this, change it". When asked for guidance, the reply was, "This isn't right, I'll know right when I see it."
Had 2 PSGs in my unit, always shuffling off responsibilities to subordinates, and when something went south, they would start blaming each other for it. BDE had limited airspace and some of the vehicles that belonged to the BDE were mobile Top Secret Platforms that had to be escorted into country. If there had been proper oversight of the packing, the weight that had been displaced by personal gear (TV, refrigerators, BBQ, etc...) on the flight could have been used for the Arms room from the Recon BN. And that was the least of the mistakes made on that pack out.
Had a peer wreck his career and family when he was caught cheating on his wife with a subordinate he had coerced, and later threatened when she tried to call it off. He had enough top cover to keep it from court martial, but the GOMOR and the OER, and the early shuffle out of country followed. And it didn't stop the unit from ending the career of the Soldier he was raping.

Leadership is a responsibility. If you refuse to do it right, don't seek it. It places so many people in danger when you are negligent in your obligations. It is dangerous when the ego and the self become more important to you than your Soldiers or the Mission.

I do believe the services are getting better about identifying toxic leaders. Still, examples set by the publicity surrounding incidents like the Petraeus/Broadwell case, Gen Sinclair, and situations that develop into active shooter situations like the Death of LTC Tisdale at Fort Bragg, create a sense that you can't trust your open door no matter how high you go.

How much of the bad that happens in the service continues to go unnoticed because we have become acclimatized and indoctrinated into an "Honor among thieves" mentality? How rotten does the stench have to get before we notice it and decide it is time to clean house? And I do mean clean house, not break out a can of Febreeze.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-04-05T16:17:40-04:00

Had a CMSgt who when speaking by phone to one of our units and asked a question would answer whether he had a valid answer or not.

Then later after he found a valid answer would call the party back and state that his previous answer was given to him by subordinate and after checking himself this is the right response.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-04-05T18:03:39-04:00

CSM Michael J. Uhlig I have too many stories. I will instead expand and inform on the conversation by discussing the humble and conscious incompetent. Successful conscious incompetent leaders used humility to self-identify and seek help from others and leverage their organizations. Learning (self and organization development) and leading (influencing and leveraging others) are things we look for from all leaders. These basic skills pair will humility can help an incompetent leader attain competency through Mission Command.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:24 PM

2015-04-05T18:24:41-04:00

I was told the in the new army our leaders don't care or work hard for their soldiers showing them the right way a Sgt should be there for his soldiers how true is that I'm a pfc in the army and I've done a lot of things on my own that my leadership should have helped me with and when I go outside of my chain of command they get angry but when I use my chain of command nothing is ever done correctly and I end up having to do it all my self but the soldiers who sham an kiss but get everything done they need done including the schools

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 6:43 PM

2015-04-05T18:43:21-04:00

Overall my experience in the Guard has been awesome. And I have had the privilege of serving under and with some top quality leaders and soldiers. However I do have a few notable exceptions. One that came to mind was of the unit I deployed with. I got a counseling statement for not wearing steel toed boots, even though I had never been issued steel toe boots, and I had asked for them, and pushed it up the chain that I didn't have them. I did write that in the comments section of the counseling.

Response by SrA Randy Brown made Apr 6 at 2015 12:23 AM

2015-04-06T00:23:10-04:00

I was told to stay inside the office instead of doing needed work checking equipment by an E-6 while he went to the NCO club for the rest of the day.
This is one of the prime examples that I did not re-inlist

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 6 at 2015 12:26 AM

2015-04-06T00:26:34-04:00

Yes, and unfortunately most are senior leaders.

Aside from leaders who can't live Army Values, or the Toxic ones (especially the ones who teach us about toxic leaders), It would have to be a Colonel I worked for in Mannheim Germany, after I came out of a Battalion as a Major. He was toxic, a micromanager, and basically evil; and... everyone knew it.

Despite his shortcomings (which were really my problem, not his) I learned from him. I learned how not to be many times, and I learned that his issues where only issues to me... He was not losing any sleep, but I was.

Despite his flaws, I still feel bad that I was unprofessional with him. As a senior Major, I bowed up to him daily, as I knew that I would be a LTC and Battalion Commander based on what I did in my previous job, not on the staff job I was in. So, I was cavalier, obstinate and unprofessional on an every increasing basis. It got really bad when the boss asked what I didn't understand about what he told me, and I told him this Colonel told me to do something else about daily. So, the boss said, henceforth, if I say it, then do it.

One day, we finally had a knock down drag out, and I had the opportunity to vent my frustrations, and he listened. He agreed with everything I said about him, but he also told me that was who he was, that he was not going to change, and this was really my problem not his. He was right, and I was wrong.

He was awful, everyone knew it, but still, I was out of line and off base.

You can learn something from everyone.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 8:07 AM

2015-04-06T08:07:50-04:00

removed.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 6 at 2015 10:46 AM

2015-04-06T10:46:54-04:00

First CSM, thank you for including me in this illustrious group.

I think we have all seen some of the examples you listed, and in truth, there might even be cases or degrees where some this is justified and even appropriate but it is the glaring examples that make us all cringe.

The one that will always stick with me was another sergeant that always seemed to have a problem with the truth...if you were relating a story from your past, he had a similar story, only better or worse, depending on what would get him more attention.

Being in the same career field, our paths crossed more than once. He would pull the rug out under his supervisors, dodge responsibilities...a great example for all. Each command seem to find it easier to get rid of him by promoting him or sending him to the choice positions...very sad. If you are interested in detail, I would be willing to discuss in a message, but not looking to post on an open site.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-04-06T13:13:18-04:00

The one that stands out most to me was a MSgt who was, for lack of a better term, stuck in his rank. He had burned too many bridges & pissed off all the wrong people with his attitude. He was tapped out & would never move higher.

Unfortunately, he was also my flight sgt. He was resentful of anyone making waves & did not waste a second trying to hate on them. If an airman, such as myself, were to ask him a question, he would belittle them & tell them to find it somewhere (without recommending where to look).

When he went TDY we all rejoiced & cried the day he came back. I remember applying to attend ROTC since I had already completed 2 years of college. I handed the application to him, he read the header, wadded it up & threw it in my face saying, "You have GOT to be kidding me, right?"

Yeah, no love lost for him here.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Apr 7 at 2015 5:15 AM

2015-04-07T05:15:52-04:00

Senior Officers and Enlisted covering each other's @$$es. A prime example I can think of is years ago when I was stationed in Guam. A Chief Petty Officer was drinking and driving and got caught by the local police. Rather than pulling over he ran, got to base and ran the gate. The command covered it up so he didn't get arrested or charged with DUI. He did go to NJP but didn't lose any rank or money.

Any E-6 and below who would have pulled that same stunt would have had their career ended.

Luckily the Navy is getting away from crap like that and I have seen E-7 and above lose rank and get drummed out.

I do still see way too many cases of senior enlisted and officers allowed to retire for pulling stunts that would get E-6 and below kicked out though. To get an example of that just read any edition of Navy Times, especially the ones with Court Martial results.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 7 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-04-07T09:19:07-04:00

I had a CPT that told me to shutdown our office for an Org day. Then when the COL found out this CPT said they never said it and blamed me as the NCOIC. I was threatened with an Article 15 for dereliction of duty(which is a big deal as a paralegal). Unfortuneately every Soldier heard it and I had an email. The CPT was moved to another office.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-04-07T10:11:23-04:00

CSM Michael J. Uhlig no comment. Some may still be in and still outrank me....

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 7 at 2015 6:16 PM

2015-08-07T18:16:53-04:00

I had a leader preach dignity and respect, but she yelled and screamed at everyone.