USASMA: Should individuals receive a masters degree upon successful graduation?

MSG Bobby Ewing — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 12:54:24 -0500

<p>Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think individuals receive a degree upon graduating from USASMA. Do you think they should? If so, what level and what type of degree? </p><p><br></p><p>There are loads of officer educational programs that are available for officers to continue their education and obtain higher degrees. Why not for SGM/CSM? Please all USASMA grads weigh in on this. </p><p><br></p><p>My personal take on this is that USASMA graduates should be accredited with a Masters degree, but I'm having a little difficulty deciding which specialty. I would lean towards a masters in human services counseling, specifically military resilience. Could possibly took at political science or business administration, I'm just not too sure.</p><p><br></p><p>I believe the USASMA course was restructured to allow Sergeants Major to graduate with a degree, but it just allows the individual to work on their individual study while taking the course. Once again, please correct me if I'm wrong.</p><p><br></p>

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2014 2:02 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:02:27 -0500

Unfortunately, in the civilian world, in order to avoid being classified as a worthless degree paper mill, the USASMA would have to submit their proposed curriculum for evaluation and undergo periodic re-evaluation by a nationally or regionally recognized accrediting body (e.g. ACE [American Council On Education]) that among other criteria requires completion of a nationally or regionally accredited four year BA/BS degree program prior to admission to any graduate program.<div><br></div><div>Many accredited colleges allow transfer of perhaps 12 to 16 undergraduate units from USAMSA - but there is one program supported by a broad range of colleges granting substantial credit earned in USASMA resident program toward associate's or bachelor's degrees - </div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-size: medium; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; font-size: medium; ">http://www.soc.aascu.org/socad/CollAmSoldier.html</span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><div style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "></span></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Participating colleges certify up-front the amount of credit to be applied to the Career NCO Degree based on American Council on Education (ACE) credit recommendations. Credit awards range from 45-67% of associate degrees for Soldiers completing SMC resident and from 31-38% of Bachelor’s degrees for Soldiers completing SMC resident. Individualized assessment may provide additional credits for MOS training and experience, testing, professional certification, prior learning and functional training.</span></font></span><div><br></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">My take is that most officers already possess a four year degree - so officers may be routinely admitted to graduate degree programs.  Many enlisted service members have earned four year undergraduate degrees and can pursue online or resident graduate degree programs.  But, if an enlisted service member does not have an undergraduate degree it would be far more credible to earn a fully accredited four year undergraduate bachelor's degree first.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Please do not waste time or money on unaccredited degree programs as they will not get you very far in the civilian world.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Apart from speciality technical degrees (e.g. engineering, medical, computer science), the degrees that appear to be most prized are business degrees, including most particularly the MBA degree.  If I were to reformulate the USAMSA curriculum for maximum impact in the civilian world, with substantial benefit to the military world, I would do what is possible to make course components equivalent to as much of a fully accredited undergraduate business degree program as possible - to minimize additional outside units required for graduation. </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Whatever level of enlistment, if you want a degree to improve your skills and best possible opportunities for employment and advancement in the military or civilian world, I would explore all available DoD affiliated programs, including:</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">http://www.soc.aascu.org/</span></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br></span></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></span></font></div></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://www.soc.aascu.org/images/SOCBanner.gif"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.soc.aascu.org/">Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">For More Information:
Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges
1307 New York Avenue, NW
Fifth Floor
Washington, DC 20005-4701</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://www.soc.aascu.org/images/ADBanner.gif"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.soc.aascu.org/socad/CollAmSoldier.html">Career NCO Degrees Program of the College of the American Soldier</a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">For More Information:
Servicemembers Opportunity Colleges
1307 New York Avenue, NW
Fifth Floor
Washington, DC 20005-4701</div></div><div style="clear:both"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2014 3:28 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 15:28:03 -0500

In my experience being stationed here with USASMA many of the soldiers don't even show up with a bachelors so how could they award them aasters? Also why should they go to school for a year and get their masters when everyone else has to go for like two years including myself?

Response by CSM William Crain made Jan 3 at 2014 8:31 PM

CSM William Crain — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 20:31:01 -0500

I can't speak for the current USASMA curriculum, but when I graduated in July 1992 (Class 17 Non-Resident Course) there were no degrees awarded specifically for completing the academy's POI. Students were encouraged and expected to continue their civilian education while they were at Bliss, but it wasn't part of the actual POI. A lot of resident students do complete a bachelors or masters while there.

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Jan 3 at 2014 8:56 PM

CSM Mike Maynard — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 20:56:35 -0500

SFC Ewing - Yes, you would be hard-pressed to figure out exactly which type of Masters Degree would be appropriate.

If you were to take a look at the POI, you would see that it's not very focused in any one thing and that is what a Masters Degree is about - a specialization in something.

USASMA introduces you to a lot of operational-level stuff but does not make you an expert at anything, especially being a new SGM.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jan 3 at 2014 9:00 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Fri, 03 Jan 2014 21:00:55 -0500

No, arbitrary graduate degrees do not correlate with graduation from the Sergeants Major Course.<br><br>If there were to be a graduate degree with the Sergeants Major Course graduation, I would surmise it to be a Masters of Leadership.<br><br>Beginning with Class 64 (current class), we are Master Resilient (MRT) certified.<br><br>Additionally, starting with Class 64, we take 5 closed book exams (one per semester) and 5 open books exams (again, one per semester) and graded writing/oral presentations.  Unlike our predecessors, time has not been allocated (semester dependent) for students to take college (graduate level or undergrad) during the day...it'll be on your own time.

Response by MSG Bobby Ewing made Jan 4 at 2014 2:02 AM

MSG Bobby Ewing — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 02:02:44 -0500

Thank you all for the feedback. I just notice the mistake I made in my original question. I meant to take out "masters" and just state, "...receive a degree upon...." With the career experience and training that Sergeants Major receive, I would like to see a course for them or even MSGs to afford them opportunities to earn a degree upon completion.

Yes, it builds character and says a lot about an individual that can complete a degree while holding demanding positions, but outside of their Army careers for those that have worked, 20+, 25+, 30+ years, what is another benefit. In a career map, it shows what we should strive to attain, why not have a specific course, that NCOs could compete for, be selected for, and upon completion, would earn a degree? Different levels of degrees pending the course curriculum? Our leaders could work with the ACE to develop something, test it, and then send it up for approval/disapproval.

I'm not recommending this as a "handout" for senior NCOs, but possibly another aspiration to strive for to assist them outside the Army.

Response by SGM Mario Guindin made Jan 4 at 2014 3:47 AM

SGM Mario Guindin — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 03:47:33 -0500

hello everyone (CLASS 56) In my experience being @ Academy many of the MSGs/SGMS don't came with an AA or Bachelor's, so I would have to said NO!!! I can see if some of them show up with a Bachelor's then is understandable that some of them will leave with their Masters.. lots of those classes that they teach at the Academy are more into management and leadership, so some folks may want their master on something us that will be more beneficial on the civilian sector (concentration on a specific job)...

Response by SFC Nikhil Kumra made Jan 4 at 2014 8:22 AM

SFC Nikhil Kumra — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:22:14 -0500

Hmmmm... How many years does one spend in USASMA and what do they learn that would constitute an accredited degree?

Response by SGT Joshua Norcross made Jan 4 at 2014 8:22 AM

SGT Joshua Norcross — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 08:22:44 -0500

I entered the Army with my AA and joined as a PFC. While on Active Duty, I attended courses wat Austin Peay and correspondence courses. After eight years and eleven months of service, I had attained the rank of sergeant, E-5 and attended BNCOC. I could have easily re-enlisted and made my E-6. However, I decided to get out and use my G.I. Bill to finish my Bachelor of Science and upon graduation went into the MBA program. I went to work for a defense contractor and their tuition reimbursement program paid for my MBA and second Master of Science in Supply Chain Management. It was all a lot of reading and writing. Just as I earned my stripes through military education and schooling; and earned my degrees through countless hours of classroom time and sacrificing family time still, I believe obtaining a degree should be earned by doing the time and fulfilling requirements established by an educational accredited organization.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2014 11:27 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 11:27:22 -0500

I can't speak on all WO MOS's, but in maintenance we don't get much for schools either, if anything. We do get certifications in our primary MOS training (ASE/NIMMS), if the whole class is on the same level. <div><br></div><div>The USAF schools are accredited, and the CCAF applies credit to multiple degrees. I believe the Navy is very similar. Why can't the Army just follow the example? </div><div><br></div><div>Some schools will credit various courses, but the school I go to is very strict and hasn't offered any credits for Army schools, only the  USAF schools I've been to. At the minimum, some management or elective credits would be nice. </div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2014 8:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jan 2014 20:05:29 -0500

I have some strong opinions on this topic that have most likely been covered already, but here goes. I feel that all levels of NCOES should have some sort of civilian education credit for the soldier as they progress in their career. Now saying that I am aware that you can get credits once you enroll or do a credit inventory. I feel this is something the Army can do for the soldier thru one of the many colleges that are accredited by the Army.

I also feel that upon completion of certain levels of NCOES or other MOS/ASI producing courses should qualify soldiers for different types of technical certificates. A example of this would be aviation soldiers earning an A&P license after service related training. I can do twenty years working on helicopters in some of the most diverse environments in the world and if I want a good paying job upon retirement doing the same thing I did while in uniform I must pay for the license and training.

So I guess my short answer is yes you should be able to receive a masters upon completion of USASMA. But, you should start by getting the other NCOES level to start the path to that degree.

Hope that makes some sense.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2014 2:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:56:51 -0400

By time someone makes CSM they should have earned a Bachelors degree. Have more than enough time. My MOS almost mandates a degree to make SGM.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2015 11:54 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:54:11 -0400

I completely agree with you, Officers walk away from the Staff college with a Masters and I can tell you that's it much easier that the current SMA , I have been attending for a year now and it lets a masters seems easy. I have look at my BC work and much easier than what I have to deal with for sure. Business Administration would be the best route to go with this.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2016 4:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 16:01:53 -0400

I know officers can complete a few additional courses through Webster University to get a master's from CGSC. I think the credit could count as masters level and maybe like the officer program but not just a degree upon completion.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jun 20 at 2018 12:45 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:45:08 -0400

I agree with you. While I have not been to USASMA I know there is a lot of work involved and the students are expected to perform at a higher level. Making it a degree granting program would make it more prestigious.

Response by 1SG Doyle McNeil made Oct 7 at 2018 2:44 PM

1SG Doyle McNeil — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:44:12 -0400

I feel that the classes we received at USASMA are instrumental in both the US Military and in the civilian work force and should receive some type of collegiate accreditation. I was in Class 55. If you have an undergraduate degree the classes in writing, presentations, research, and the NSA alone should be accredited. If someone has an AA degree, or Bachelors, or working on a Masters, this course should provide some type of accreditation for the next higher degree. The course was as challenging as many in the college world, if not more. We also contributed volunteer time in the community, not counting our physical fitness tests and demands weekly, so this should be accredited also. My vote is for USASMA to take a deep look at providing college credits for at least the 9 month residence course that I was a member of towards any degree, and not just a Masters.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2020 7:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2020 19:01:17 -0400

A Masters Degree? Really? Not just no. But absolutely not. I can understand military schools like truck driving or the tech jobs counting towards trade certificates. Suggesting any military school is worth anything more than info for legitimate universities to consider for credits on a JST is a joke. It's not real academics... not comparable. People need to stop fooling themselves.

Want a degree? Attend a University taught by real teachers, with credentials and real curriculums. I applaud anyone who pursues an education, but the reality is, military schools are not comparable and anyone who's attended a real college knows that.

I shiver every time someone suggests this.