Valdosta State University protesters walk on flag..what could have been done better in this situation?

2015-04-18T15:15:59-04:00

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/news/local_news/flag-fracas-at-valdosta-state/article_8c1f2320-e559-11e4-93ad-dbffd6e2dfd8.html

I couldn't believe they were protesting slavery by walking on the flag that allows them the freedom to exercise their right to free speech...your thoughts?

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Apr 18 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-04-18T15:20:14-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, it's his right but it's shameful behavior.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Apr 18 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-04-18T15:26:38-04:00

Punk was looking for a fight. The vet probably could have cleaned his clock. To the question, How about standing beside him with a sign pointing out what an idiot he his.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 18 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-04-18T16:04:37-04:00

Might as well protest WWII. I commend her to have the guts to get the flag.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 18 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-04-18T16:12:59-04:00

It is what makes this country great. Everyone has freedom of speech, even the idiots. No one waiting to cart them off and cut off their head, yet moron's don't respect the very country that protects them. Show of hands......who wants a free ride to the country of their choice? I'll drive you there and wave at you in my rear view mirror.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-04-18T16:17:11-04:00

The veteran get arrested yet the protesters walk free when what they are doing is against the law. OUTRAGIOUS!

US Code Title 4 Chapter 1 states:
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a)The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

(b)The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

(c)The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d)The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e)The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f)The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g)The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h)The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i)The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j)No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k)The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

June 22, 1942, ch. 435, §4, 56 Stat. 379; Dec. 22, 1942, ch. 806, §4, 56 Stat. 1076; July 7, 1976, Pub. L. 94–344, (12)–(16), 90 Stat. 812.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 5:14 PM

2015-04-18T17:14:22-04:00

Eh... Ill let them. Its within their right. Even thought it hurts.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-04-18T17:28:42-04:00

What separates this country from so many others is our freedom.

While I agree that disrespecting the flag is shameful and wrong, it is their right. And we should support that right. We should support all freedom, even if it makes us uncomfortable.

We don't have to agree, but cries for shipping people out of the country or the like are misplaced. These kinds of actions instill a lot of emotions because of how we feel about the nation and the flag. But, that doesn't mean we alter our fundamental core beliefs because we disagree.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 18 at 2015 5:44 PM

2015-04-18T17:44:30-04:00

To the artist responsible I wish to exercise my freedom of expression with a throat punch

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 5:55 PM

2015-04-18T17:55:32-04:00

It's actually illegal in the state of Texas to desecrate the flag...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-04-18T17:56:40-04:00

I have some very non-Army approved opinions about this but I'll just say that those..."people" could suffer very unfortunate events and I would be so concerned as to sit here and finish this Dr Pepper and go to bed.

Response by A1C Charles D Wilson made Apr 18 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-04-18T18:09:17-04:00

I would have blown a gasket and went to jail...but still clutching freedom in my hands. Try me and would have seen me. A VET. Old Glory deserves the respect or get out. Freedom of speech is one thing but to do such a thing...smh you never can correct ignorance and no back bone. Oh well life continues and now my pride feels those foot steps.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 18 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-04-18T18:10:34-04:00

I'll take outrage and fervent anger for 500 alex.

Response by SSG Jordan Acker made Apr 18 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-04-18T18:10:50-04:00

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Apr 18 at 2015 6:22 PM

2015-04-18T18:22:17-04:00

I offer another chance for the demonstrators, come take my flag, that's traveled thru many countries with me, you want it, come take....MOLON LABE.....you see, I will not just give it to you as it is my right to to keep it

Response by PO3 Michael James made Apr 18 at 2015 6:43 PM

2015-04-18T18:43:03-04:00

She, a Veteran, approached the group, and took the flag from them... Bless her, as you said, our Constitution allows people to exercise their rights to act like jerk---s, and protects them !! It reminds me of the mid-sixties protests reference the Vietnam war.. I thought maybe we the people had matured a bit more since then, apparently NOT !! Maybe our Federal Government should drop Tax Payer support for Valdosta State !! Someone just standing there should have picked up the Flag in the first place.. What ever happened to American Pride ??

Response by SGT Neil Chandler made Apr 18 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-04-18T18:53:43-04:00

I posted this as well. I didn't know what was being protested, but still. We fight and serve our country for these people.....

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 8:44 PM

2015-04-18T20:44:07-04:00

I would have lost it... Seriously if you don't like what our government is doing write your congressman a letter or something maybe you'd actually get something accomplished, Personally I think they all can get out of MY country.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 8:58 PM

2015-04-18T20:58:17-04:00

If you dislike this country so much, do feel free to leave! There are thousands of good people that are trying to get here, and would love to be here. Either love the country you live in, or GTFO.

Response by SFC Douglas Davis made Apr 18 at 2015 9:06 PM

2015-04-18T21:06:36-04:00

Then my response is simple all of these Colleges and Universities that allow this type of behavior should have all taxpayer funding pulled. To include all request for student aid.

Response by MSgt Jamie Lyons made Apr 18 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-04-18T21:38:20-04:00

"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
—Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMarineCorps

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Apr 20 at 2015 4:43 AM

2015-04-20T04:43:59-04:00

** UPDATE **

Playboy-posing veteran in flag scuffle. Sets off debate on everything ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/20/playboy-posing-veteran-in-flag-scuffle-sets-off-debate-over-everything/?tid=hpModule_9d3add6c-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e&hpid=z16

Playboy-posing veteran arrested in flag scuffle, sets off debate over everything

When students stomp on Old Glory, a former Air Force staff sergeant tries to save it -- and she gets arrested.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 5:22 AM

2015-04-20T05:22:52-04:00

[Big sigh before answering...] Correct, they practice their version of 'freedom of speech'. I'd snatch that flag away in a heartbeat, but NOT as an agent of government (military or a law enforcement officer), but as a PRIVATE CITIZEN who's concerned about others' abusive habits towards American flag and who's also practicing the honoring of Old Glory.

I'd take the beating, scrutiny, and any other forms of persecution and I'd tell them that PRESIDENT OBAMA still shows respect for the flag, so why don't they?? Also where's the CONFEDERATE flag to walk on if they're that desperate? Disgraceful.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 6:07 AM

2015-04-20T06:07:40-04:00

United States flag code
TITLE 36. CHAPTER 10 §176 : Respect for flag

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

Unfortunately Supreme Court ruled to not Take action on individuals for such action due rob going against free speech.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Apr 20 at 2015 6:53 AM

2015-04-20T06:53:11-04:00

These are attention seeking, anti-American ne'r do wells. They think they have it tough here but most have never been to a third world country or observed what real oppression looks like. They are more free and have more opportunity than any generation in the history of the world and how do they use it? By talking about how oppressed they are being in America.

It requires zero courage, risk or heart to protest in this manner. There is little chance anything will happen, they are fully protected by being citizens of the country represented by the symbol the tread upon. Chicanery at it's finest.

Perhaps the she should have simply walked up with some ligheter fluid, gave it a quick squirt and lit it on fire and disposed of the flag semi-appropriately. We know that no one would get in any trouble burning a flag in this country.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 20 at 2015 8:13 AM

2015-04-20T08:13:29-04:00

Do some of you realize who Michelle Manhart, an Air Force veteran, is right? If you do not, and user beware, Google her name and search for images. Also, she is my hero! Also, the group refused to identify themselves so what is the freaking point of protesting? Are they ashamed of what they are doing?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Apr 20 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-04-20T12:29:16-04:00

I would argue no person has the right to initiate force against a fellow citizen, nor steal their property, regardless of their offensive symbolic speech.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 20 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-04-20T12:57:41-04:00

The Flag is a living symbol of America. However it is a thing.

I get that people are angry at the Protester. However he is also a living symbol of America.

He's angry about something, and he's just got you to talk about it. He's drawn attention to it. He's pissed you off in a way that the Flag doesn't.

Do I find desecrating the Flag despicable? You're damn right I do. Do I find using the Flag to make a point a valid means of expression. You're damn right I do.

Ignore the Code. The Code doesn't matter. The People matter. She was pissed about his abuse of an object. He was pissed about the abuse of People. As much as I dislike his methods, he created a bigger impact.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 2:24 PM

2015-04-20T14:24:43-04:00

What could have been done better? The officers involved could have controlled the scene better, but that's about it and also an armchair observation.

The protesters were fully within the bounds of the law and had every right to act in the manner that they did. That said, just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right and I would not have personally handled the situation as gracefully as Ms. Manhart did. She was arrested, but not charged. I would doubt the same could be said for me if I was involved as I have a very short and hot temper when it comes to things like this.

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made Apr 20 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-04-20T15:36:12-04:00

Johnny Cash - Ragged Old Flag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whmVGRSgAe8

Ragged Old Flag

Here is a very patriotic video I created using the song "Ragged Old Flag" by Johnny Cash. It shows many images of the American Flag all timed to the song.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Apr 20 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-04-20T21:22:55-04:00

I think that Valdosta University leadership needs to grow some leadership and courage and not allow something this disrespectful to happen.
The students probably don't even have a clue as to why they are being disrespectful. Funny because they are all in higher education you would think that they could do some research and know that its illegal to trample an American flag.
Furthermore I think it would be appropriate to cite every single one of those protestors who trampled on the flag and let them have their day in court, include the leadership of Valdosta University in that group because they allowed this disrespectful behavior to happen.
And below is a link to the US Code about Flag desecration.
18 U.S. Code § 700 - Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/700

18 U.S. Code § 700 - Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties | US Law | LII /...

For information regarding constitutionality of this section as amended by Pub. L. 101–131, see Congressional Research Service, The Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis and Interpretation, Appendix 1, Acts of Congress Held Unconstitutional in Whole or in Part by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Response by Cpl Patrick Reade made Apr 20 at 2015 9:35 PM

2015-04-20T21:35:17-04:00

I am doing all I can to refrain from finding these sob's and walking over them as they lay flat on the ground. From me running them the fck over

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 21 at 2015 9:04 AM

2015-04-21T09:04:25-04:00

Here is an interesting perspective on the First Amendment rights of the protestors:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/19/valdosta-state-admins-side-with-flag-sto#comment

Personally, I find them protesting America due to slavery is entirely inane as they are currently college students and are some of the best well off people in the world (in comparison). Slavery was a terrible thing, but it has thankfully left our country and is no longer an issue. Those who continue to complain about it must not be aware (or choose not to be) of the continued human trafficking and slavery happening throughout the world even today.

I agree with the protestors' rights to walk on the flag. I agree with the veteran being angry about it. I do not agree with her being arrested for her actions.

While I do not personally like what they are doing, it is free speech and their right to do so. Hilariously enough, they are complaining about the country that gives them all their freedom and from their actions (on camera) I suspect they will have difficulty finding jobs in the future, therefore taking away some of their own freedoms by their bad decisions.

Valdosta State Admins Side with Flag-Stompers Over Veteran. As They Should.

The First Amendment: It matters.