Veteran's Call For Help Lands Him In Jail: Is this the right way to respond to a Veteran in crisis?

2015-06-01T14:47:29-04:00

A desperate Combat Veteran calls the VA Helpline; he's suicidal. At one point during the conversation, he even mentions that he feels like taking his gun with him to the VA Clinic to force them to give them the help he needs. Does the Helpline operator send police and EMS to get this Veteran to safety immediately? No, she reports him to VA Police, who have him arrested the next day by Federal Agents, and charge him with Communicating a Threat to VA Staff. Is this really the right way to be running a Helpline for Combat Veterans suffering from PTSD? What say you?

Army combat veteran's call for help lands him in jail

Ryan Broderick has been trapped inside his mind, watching a constant reel of explosions that rocked the Army vehicles he had scrubbed of blood during three combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now he's being prosecuted by comments he let fly during a call to speak with a counselor at the Veterans Affairs suicide crisis hotline.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-06-01T14:51:40-04:00

To judge fairly, we need the recording. I'm sure this won't be released anytime soon.

But my initial reaction is one of practiced horror. The only thing that baffles me about this situation is how the VA seems to only be consistent about one thing, and one thing only: tragedy.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 1 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-06-01T14:52:42-04:00

Such a dicey situation. We don't have enough folks trained to handle EDPs. And if you are unlucky enough to get a poorly trained officer responding to the call for help it will turn out to be a suicide by cop situation..after the fact.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-06-01T14:53:34-04:00

I am astounded by the reaction to the vet's plea for help. I read the Stars & Stripes article yesterday. I have received Behavioral Health care since returning home from my third deployment. The care I receive is "adequate," but not what I expected/hoped it would be. This guy just wanted someone to talk through his stuff; to listen to him while he vented about his issues. Who can't relate to that? At the end of the S&S article it lists other vets who ran foul of the law calling vet "helplines." How can we believe you will help us, if there is a FEAR that you might call the law on us for what we say? It's absurd.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Jun 1 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-06-01T14:53:54-04:00

It sounds to me he was expressing his frustrations. I also think the call center made matters worse than they may have been, did the VA police question him first? Or just arrest based entirely by what was said.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jun 1 at 2015 2:54 PM

2015-06-01T14:54:34-04:00

The VA should hire veterans to work at VA Helpline not every nitwit who do not understand what some veterans go through in their lives.

Response by SSG Aj Wanta made Jun 1 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-06-01T14:57:49-04:00

The helpline is there for people to call so that they can say what they are really felling so that vets are not holding in everything and just becoming a ticking time bomb. It is also there for people to get help when needed. I am appalled at the fact that this veteran was even identified. I will never call the help line because of this. It is a joke what we are told and then to see what really happened. When are people going to uphold the standard of doing what is right and upholding our word.

Response by SPC Ei McS made Jun 1 at 2015 3:04 PM

2015-06-01T15:04:58-04:00

WHO are the people who work at the VA helplines and the VA police? WHO??????? Does someone know? WHO???? Such a cry for help (it seems like a very desperate cry for help to me) has to be taken serious, even though the potential threat has to be taken serious as well! I can imagine that a psychological/psychiatric torment and anguish must be hell for the person involved, even more so when the person involved is aware of it and is pleading for help! WHO are the people at the VA helpline and the VA police? WHO?

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jun 1 at 2015 3:05 PM

2015-06-01T15:05:07-04:00

And this is the help that we get that our GOVERNMENT say that we deserve!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 3:12 PM

2015-06-01T15:12:26-04:00

I truly understand the indignation expressed here. However, I must ask what would your feelings be if action was not taken and the person actually carried out his threats? Everyone seems to dismiss his threats and I don't think we can do that either.

The ones on the receiving end also have to be considered.

Fave it, this was a no win situation.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-06-01T15:15:22-04:00

Help should have been provided to him.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-06-01T15:18:06-04:00

Broderick crossed a line when he threatened to bring a weapon to the VA. The man needed help, and instead got jacked up. Talk about disfunctional. It speaks very poorly about the state of affairs that a veteran needing help would be driven to such desperation that he felt justified in making such a threat.
What is also appaling is that the VA felt it was OK to identify the veteran publicly.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and he'll get the assistance he was looking for.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-06-01T15:19:39-04:00

And then the union steps in and defends the VA worker:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2015/06/01/fox-business-exclusive-cash-for-slackers/

Exclusive: Cash for Slackers

The Federal Labor Relations Authority reveals the extraordinary lengths the government goes to protect their own.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jun 1 at 2015 3:21 PM

2015-06-01T15:21:27-04:00

If he did make a threat, it should be taken seriously - however, there could have been a better way to handle it. They could have asked him to "come in" immediately and had law enforcement/security notified and ready - then take the proper necessary steps to give a thorough evaluation.

Unfortunately, I agree this was a no win situation - I still think with what happened he at least deserves an evaluation.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jun 1 at 2015 3:38 PM

2015-06-01T15:38:38-04:00

Some times you have to give the Devil his due. If the veteran is alive and getting help then yes. I have worked suicide hot lines in my past and say that we can not judge the decision that a Hotline Operators takes, but if you wish to judge, then step up to the plate (phone) and take their place. This is the reason that the ARMY started the ACE program, Ask are you planing to take your life or some one else.
Care enough to do something about it.
Escort the persons and stay by them and not just pass them on.
Is the Veteran Alive and getting help?

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 1 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-06-01T15:52:13-04:00

Unfortunately, from info posted here, mental health providers have a legal "duty to warn " which applies.

Response by SFC Aaron Calmes made Jun 1 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-06-01T16:08:00-04:00

They wonder why people are afraid to seek help when they keep saying they want to help soldiers and its nothing to be ashamed of to ask for help.

Not related to the VA but a similar story. Had a reserve soldier say they were thinking about killing themself. Called Military One Source to get a referral for specialty care. Said nothing was really there for reservist, take him to the hospital. The unit escorted him there and made sure he was never alone from the moment he made the statement. They didn't have a psychiatrist on duty (weekend) and put him in the psych ward for 24+ hours with a bunch of truly crazy people. Took his shoe strings, belt, etc. Unfortunately this is far from uncommon. (Soldier was released to wife and received treatment starting that on Monday).

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-06-01T16:08:44-04:00

I hate to say it but the individual communicated that he had the intent, the means, and the ability to hurt or harm others. This is not something that can be written off as "ohhh he's just veteran....." As to the level of response that may have been over the top....however I will say that they should have called 911 for the local area that night and not have waited. They could have sent an ambulance, or crisis team (medical) team with law enforcement support to do a hospitality check and truly access the level of threat that existed.

You can not ignore cries for help but you also can not ignore out burst of anger or threats towards others.......someone could have seriously gotten hurt in this situation....thank God no one did...and yes they probably need to look at their response protocols....I would saying waiting till the next day was their biggest mistake in my humble opinion....we're lucky they did roll up on another statistic. Anyway just my two cents.....waiting till the next day, doing nothing, or down playing the threat because "he's a vet" are all wrong choices. Again just thank God no one was hurt and we are not trying to figure out how lives were lost but how to more effectively save them in the future.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 1 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-06-01T16:17:34-04:00

Yes and no, of course he did communicate a potential threat, however, at the same time, he can be declared under insanity because of his depression. The response is warranted, however it should result in help for the individual.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jun 1 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-06-01T16:34:22-04:00

Wow, what a tragic result for a service member who needs help!
I get how the language used can be threatening, so I can't disagree with helpline rep, who wants to protect her peers at the VA clinic.

Just a profound set of events making the situation worse for the soldier.
The whole situation of 'proving you need assistance' when you have wartime service seems wrong.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-06-01T16:35:48-04:00

Unfortunately, VA is incapable of providing mental health/suicide preventive care. As a result, it is easier for them to have veterans locked up in jail or prison, waiting hopefully for a positive outcome on their request for support from VA or a premature death. Frustration is common among veterans seeking assistance from VA. But this frustration does little to help to veteran obtain necessary care. Not a problem for VA. Getting locked up pushes the requirement to provide care on other agencies (city, county, state or federal prison). Death is the ultimate method for VA to avoid their duty. Although, in many cases, VA provides exceptional service and the best service within their means, too often there are cases where they avoided their duty by identifying the veteran as a criminal instead of a patient in need.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 1 at 2015 5:03 PM

2015-06-01T17:03:34-04:00

Simple question. Should we lock people up who are sick?

Was the communication of a threat, a "symptom" of being sick? If so, is it right to lock him up for that?

I absolutely get the harm to himself & others issue. He should absolutely "Segregated" to alleviate that issue, but there is a difference between Sick & Criminal. Unfortunately, "we" as a Nation are ill-equipped when it comes to handling "Reactive Health Care" especially anything that requires Mental Health.

Involving Police, as a matter of safety, not just for the individual, but for others changes the dynamic so much, and unfortunately, because of the Rights involved, it MUST go through the Justice system. This has LOTS of unintended consequences.

One of which is that our (default) Justice system is not really prepared for Mental Health. So we've got two systems that really don't work well together, which have to both be used.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-06-01T17:11:23-04:00

This may be buried at the bottom of this thread, but if YOU are in need of help and don't know where to turn, DO NOT let this incident stop you from reaching out. The VA hotline maybe the only option you have, so PLEASE use it.

At the end of the day, this guy is getting help.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jun 1 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-06-01T17:12:17-04:00

What a mess. I see so much despair in LA with homeless vets. Wrote about it in my book.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made Jun 1 at 2015 5:17 PM

2015-06-01T17:17:14-04:00

All good comments and insight. It's unfortunate that people turn things on people who don't deserve it. Life is hard enough without being kicked while you're down. I hope justice is served well and that this man gets the best help he can to come out stronger on the other side of this.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Jun 1 at 2015 5:43 PM

2015-06-01T17:43:26-04:00

This was a cry for help and it should have been responded to in that manner. Sending EMS to help get him to the help he needs would have been a better response.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jun 1 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-06-01T17:49:51-04:00

On one hand, my mother (in her 60's) makes idle threats all the time, and she wouldn't be able to shoot a rattlesnake if given the opportunity.

On the other hand in these days of people walking into establishments and committing mass murder, the actions were necessary and precautionary.

The only thing I know for sure is that if you depend on the government to do anything efficiently and timely there's a 99.999% chance that you will be disappointed.

Don't let it stop you from trying to get help if you need it... but be warned not to let your frustration lead you loose control of what you say.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-06-01T17:50:41-04:00

That is the problem here. If you just need to talk and feel highly stressed out, you do not need to feel that they are out to get you. This is not help, but the voice of frustration. The pain of need but not sure where to go.

Talk to VA personnel and you get the idea that the top floor is more like prison and is locked down. Too many veterans are afraid to emote for legal reasons. Is this how we deal with someone in need?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 6:03 PM

2015-06-01T18:03:31-04:00

If you talk to veterans who are in a highly volatile and perhaps unsafe place the last thing you need to feel is even more lost. At the VA Hospital in Durham for example is the NINTH FLOOR. When you question people about it, they become very nervous and feel cheated. Even VA people are kind of vague about how one is treated.

I went to the ER for being stressed and homeless and they were going to take my clothes and the whole deal. The Dr say to leave me alone and they talked with me. You have to be careful what you say because you do not want to be misunderstood. Even on RallyPoint you get smart asses and I think comments and feelings need to be dealt with in a more humane way. Have two VA Cops standing outside your room ready to escort you to the ninth floor.

I am grateful to the doctors though, because they see if to know that I was no harm and you are irrational when you become hopeless and system is making it harder to find happiness and peace. I went to my doctor and got a letter saying that my cat is a necessary thing to have to stabilize me. They were so nice and yet some VA people didn't care and this are the social workers who treat hurting people like criminals.

The lady who hung the vet in effigy may not have meant grievous harm but to a veteran sleeping on the street, in a car or shelter, life is hell. I am bitter about some things that went on and the individuals that made it hard, had a place to go. They did not have to be sequestered in car in miserable heat or 20 degree temperatures. Please do NOT patronize the hurting and then act surprised when they get pissed off.

Response by TSgt Trevor Vander made Jun 1 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-06-01T18:08:44-04:00

Good topic, and walks the line for alot of people. He did cross the line when he made the threat and it had to be considered viable so by making the threat he put the individual - that was doing their job - in a hard spot. He flagged himself not as only suicidal, but also as a threat. If the person on the phone said nothing - and he came in the next day and killed someone - it would be on him. We all are familiar with the transfer of responsibility. We are all familiar with doing the right thing - and based off what the article says, the guy on the other end of the call did the right thing. Sucks to see this happen, but the guy calling for help went from being helpless and in a bad situation to threatening the lives of innocents to get a reaction. He got the reaction - but not what he wanted, I can assure you he is getting help now though were he is at.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 1 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-06-01T18:40:59-04:00

There is s fine deference between, "I would" and, "I am". I am not here to argue the fine points of communicating a threat. If this goes to court, he will need his own attorney. They need to know what he thinking at the time of the phone call. I think the way he is being treated is discriminatory towards veterans.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jun 1 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-06-01T21:29:44-04:00

Would it have been viable for the VA to send a shrink along with the police so an on sight evaluation could have been made? Do we really know what the vet was thinking, was it an out of frustration plea from the vet or was there something behind it - we don't know. One thing we have to remember a real threat was relayed and the welfare and safety of other needs to be factored in. The action wasn't wrong, but it could have been handled better.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-06-01T23:01:55-04:00

I have run into this a couple of times as a civilian police officer. Luckily most of my colleagues know I'm s vet and call me when we have a guy like this. Police have to do their job just like everyone else, if that bet would have hurt someone then the VA Police would have been critisized for not arresting him. We need more vets as cops I think

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-06-02T09:13:48-04:00

Double edged sword. He did break the law. However, County Jail isn't where he needs to be. He needs help, which cannot be found inside a detainment facility.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 2 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-06-02T09:15:31-04:00

Yes Crisis hotlines need to listen to people adn try to get them help.........BUT threats also must be taken seriously. Particlarly since we just had a VA shooting not 6 months ago in El Paso. Yes we have to try to protect our vets, but we also need to take measures to protect our healthcare providers too.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jun 2 at 2015 9:42 AM

2015-06-02T09:42:00-04:00

I doubt his intention was to harm others. He was desperate and needed help. Perhaps, he simply meant he would go down to the VA with his gun and threaten to shoot himself if he didn't get the help he was seeking.

The operator could not know exactly what his intent was and took the necessary steps to prevent an active shooter incident. If anything, this was a means to protect the veteran and the public from any potential harm. He'll have his day in court, but I'm certain he'll receive a complete psychology evaluation before his case is presented.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jun 2 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-06-02T11:39:14-04:00

While I do not think that he should have been arrested, he probably should have been taken to the VAMC for immediate evaluation. I do not fault the Crisis Line, because of the fear of someone shooting up the place, they have to err on the side of caution, but at the same time, it could have been handled better by the Crisis Line operator. Most of us on here have at one time or another probably blurted out something sensational due to sheer frustration with no intention of ever actually committing what it was we communicated, however when you have individuals that are probably not in-tune with Veterans, you end up with this kind of overreaction. I am hopeful that he is not prosecuted over his words but is given the treatment he so obviously needs and deserves.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jun 2 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-06-02T11:53:55-04:00

Unfortunately, BOTH the YES and NO answer are right.... HE called for help AND he conveyed a threat, and being a combat vet, a threat that HAS to be taken in context. I wish that the VA would have treated this a bit differently...may have had alternate endings. Unfortunately, a person in crisis will not always say the right thing....they are acting/speaking out of desperation, frustration, pain..... I can't blame him completely....but at the same time, I can't let him off the hook completely either without having ALL the facts and details of the situation.

Response by SGT Racie Hutchens made Jun 2 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-06-02T12:27:42-04:00

Another epic failure on the VA part,.. How many times can they fail us? I was personally told by some twenty something twit that since my PTSD did not have susicidal/homicidal ideation that I didn't qualify for any type of counseling however, they could offer me six sessions if I really felt it was necessary. Really, lady! really! then she snarkly went on to explain how the VA had done a study and they found it wasn't effect to do long term care for PTSD. First if you did any study it was a cost basis study not a therapeutic one. Second not to beleaguer the point, but I can pretty much guarantee any study you did wasn't done on female veterans. So on behalf of all of us who saw combat time,.. Eff the hell off!!! And I guess this is just a another lesson in why vets can't trust the VA!!!

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-06-02T14:49:44-04:00

These situations are always so easy to criticize after the threat is no longer there.

I really think we should try to place ourselves in the decision making process before we know that there is no danger.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-06-02T14:50:18-04:00

Oh Man. It can be a yes and no. Especially when he was basically BEGGING for help. See, the VA is just GRRR. I don't like talking to their psychologists. I would much rather go to a civilian not attached to the VA period.

//In the eyes of federal officials, Broderick posed a threat to America and should be treated as a criminal.//

Every Veteran is seen as a threat to America. Didn't everyone of us get that memo??

This goes back to the 1st amendment and how you can say whatever it is you want, but you can't expect what you say to NOT be held against you. I feel bad for this Veteran, MAJ Private RallyPoint Member . Just awful to have to go to that extent to get the help he so desperately was needing.

//Broderick said he constantly badgered the VA with requests to meet with a therapist; he said every time he called, he was scheduled for another appointment for something unrelated to his PTSD.//

You know, when I call the VA to be seen about something, I can ONLY be seen about one thing. I would need another appointment to be seen about any other thing, and then another and another. IT's very irritating. I feel this soldier's pain. I too was unraveling and I called and told them I needed to be seen NOW! I had to wait 2 weeks. I don't know what their expectations are of us Vets/SM's. Whatever it is, it is high.

//His arrest came less than 10 minutes after the order for psychiatric commitment lapsed.//

For REAL. //Broderick said he was never told that a commitment order had been taken out on him. He said he would have welcomed the treatment and would have reported to the VA voluntarily.//

I BELIEVE this to be true. This has happened... Appointments disappearing or appearing without any letter or call. You get results of any test in the mail. These VA people are the most just GRRR. It took to me a long time to finally get a Dr. that I absolutely LOVE. She is the BEST. Took years. I am surprised she hasn't left yet. They usually have a quick turn around. Can't keep anyone there. Anyone Good that is.

Man, to be greeted with what he needed help with. The weapons and "enemy." Or at least he was treated as such. That definitely didn't help the situation. WHY DON'T THESE PEOPLE HELP THEM ASAP AND NOT WAIT UNTIL SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS. I am split 50/50 on this one. I'd rather a civilian treat me... than a military member. Some military vets just don't get it and with a civilian, it's not just one way... the military way.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 2 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-06-02T14:58:42-04:00

Maybe, just maybe, the va needs to be picketed by veterans, if the people "insert expletive here" in charge saw that it should be veterans helping veterans and not civilians (with no Friggen clue) trying to help veterans, the system would work a lot better.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-06-02T16:20:45-04:00

I am familiar with the response on the civilian side. It is no different. IF there is ANY reason to believe that you might be a danger to yourself or to others the system kicks in and you may find yourself jailed or involuntarily committed for observation.

I am not talking about seeing a doctor. I am talking about 100% committed to a mental institution.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Jun 2 at 2015 5:05 PM

2015-06-02T17:05:03-04:00

He needs a good lawyer. And, several at that VA site involved in the event, and chain of command, need a reprimand and re-education.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 2 at 2015 5:16 PM

2015-06-02T17:16:44-04:00

I guess the keyword in the story line would be "feels like" not "is gonna" or " will do so". The idiot at the helpline should have recognized the difference. To me that was a huge cry for help.
I would have tried to dissuade him from that approach and talked him into either going or having someone drop him off at a mental hospital or getting him to make an appointment with a va shrink or civilian shrink and tried to find some information on group sessions for him/her to join.
It would be easier to talk to a group of people who are in the same boat as you.
That is what I personally would have done. Not call the cops.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jun 2 at 2015 7:41 PM

2015-06-02T19:41:00-04:00

this one of the reasons why soldiers and Vets do not trust the VA or anybody else for that matter on the PTSD issue. Soldiers are afraid they will kicked out, lose clearances or be skipped over on promotions. Vets are scared they will lose benefits, have weapons carrying permits revoked, lose control of their own funds, be baker acted, or have their weapons taken away. So I do not think any of us really get in to the meat and Taters of issues. And law enforcement has no clue how to deal with us look at the soldier who died while in weekend custody for a DUI issue. Could that soldier be alive if those guards were trained or at least familiar with a soldier who had PTSD. Now what will happen to this soldier?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 10:27 PM

2015-06-02T22:27:48-04:00

Please tell me this is a joke. You call the suicide help line and instead of giving you any help at all they arrest you. and we wonder why people don't go and seek help this is why. What would make a person think that is what this veteran needed.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jun 2 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-06-02T23:21:58-04:00

Couldn't the help desk operator have dispatched the Police/MP's and Paramedics/EMT's to his home 20? After all he called the suicide hotline!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 11:24 PM

2015-06-02T23:24:57-04:00

In the Army or any other branch of service, all incidents that result in the arrest or the detention of a Soldier end up on the Blotter, which is reported to the Installation Commander and all major commands resident on a given installation. When a unit has a Soldier who's name hits the Blotter, it gets everyone's attention really quick! Before you know it, everyone who's anyone in that Soldier's Chain of Command is standing at attention, explaining to the Installation or Division Commander just what in the Hell is wrong with the Soldier or Soldiers in their unit and what they intend to do to fix it. While that is going on, the Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant, and Battalion CSM are performing the same song and dance for the Installation CSM. It is an unpleasant experience for all, because nobody likes to have their Higher examining their unit like a proctologist. This is the way the VA needs start running it's clinics. If a patient calls a Helpline and levels an allegation like Broderick did in this instance before he threatened violence on the clinic, the VAMC Director needs to be calling every member of this patient's individual care team into his office first thing, and keeping them there until he gets a complete picture of the circumstances that may have lead up to their patient being arrested and jailed. If he finds malfeasance, negligence, or poor patient care on the part of the patient's care team, he needs the authority to hammer those responsible. It's time for some accountability at the VA. We've all functioned well in an accountable atmosphere, why cant' they?

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Jun 3 at 2015 12:32 AM

2015-06-03T00:32:19-04:00

He is talking about taking his (and others) life. He is not in his "right mind". They should send the police but take him to a hospital not jail.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 3 at 2015 2:08 AM

2015-06-03T02:08:16-04:00

Obviously this helpline operator has no real PTSD training. If she/he did, this veteran would be getting the help he needs, not getting a criminal record.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 11:27 AM

2015-06-03T11:27:31-04:00

The veteran did communicate as threat over the phone. The Operator should have called the police and have them respond to the person's home. Waiting until the next day really is not benefiting the VA or the veteran. The operator should have been fired or the officer taking the operator's statement over the threat should have been fired.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 11:46 AM

2015-06-03T11:46:46-04:00

So the question is when do you take a situation seriously? Just saying "I'm gonna kill you" is one thing but saying "Sometimes I feel like going to the VA to force them to do X and I do have a gun" is pretty strong is saying that you've been thinking about it. We take suicidal ideations pretty seriously, we should do the same with potential violent acts.
Should he be punished? That's not for me to say what his mental state is. Most likely he is frustrated and it will come out that he was just vocalizing anger and that will come out if he is actually prosecuted.

As to the topic of having vets at the other end of the line, you need vets to have access to the employment opportunities (h2h.jobs, job fairs, etc) as well as vets actively seeking those jobs.

Response by PO1 Joseph Frazier made Jun 3 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-06-03T12:22:55-04:00

Unfortunately, this Veteran broke the law by communicating a threat on a federal building. I believe he should have been getting treated for PTSD, but wasn't. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. The sad part of all this is, if convicted of a federal crime he will lose his Veteran benefits.

Response by SSgt William Parker made Jun 3 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-06-03T12:39:34-04:00

The VA no longer exists to care for Veterans who suffered mental or physical injury defending this country. It is a bureaucracy that exists to provide employment for good union workers.

Response by SSG Rafael Rodriguez made Jun 3 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-06-03T13:50:31-04:00

Point taken, but he also said that he "feels like taking his gun to the VA", you know they are going to act on that first. Hopefully he is also taken care of afterwards on his suicidal issue.

Response by SrA Greg Hardin made Jun 3 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-06-03T13:50:33-04:00

This is because the V.A hires unqualified people just like affirmative action.

Response by Cpl Paul Smith made Jun 3 at 2015 2:03 PM

2015-06-03T14:03:16-04:00

His threat was a sign of.feeling trapped and helpless, not a real threat. The dispatch needs to be trained better to recognize the difference. Even with that, once the VA police arrived and saw that his intention was to get help, they should have transported him to the ER of the VA hospital. Arresting him and processing him as a criminal just adds to the list of mistakes and misunderstanding of the needs of our soldiers.
Training and compassion is needed. This type of response is going to drive more veterans to avoid asking for help, which could lead to more suicides and drug abuse. Just my opinion.

Response by CPL Joe Varga made Jun 3 at 2015 2:39 PM

2015-06-03T14:39:23-04:00

This is not the first story I have heard about bad results after calling the VA for help. I will never use that service. If I ever get to that point in my life, I will seek civilian support.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Jun 3 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-06-03T14:41:16-04:00

Although I am upset at the way the Situation when down and yes the counselor should of call the Local P.D. instead of the V.A. P.D. Frustrated or not he made a threat to harm others, The V.A. and the Help Line counselors are Mandated Reporters so they were required by Law to Report it and take steps to prevent that person from fallowing through with the threat. I have call the Veterans Hotline myself on Multiple occasions and they have helped me every time I felt a need to go inpatient BHOST for wanting to off myself. The persons on the other line talked with me and when I told them I was going to V.A. Hospital to seek help (Family took me) They asked me what I thought my ETA would be, Called the Hospital to let them know I was on the way and the time I should be there, and called me back if I passed the time I stated. Now Like I said that person shouldn't of called the V.A. P.D. I have seen how they handle Vets. Lets say most of the time it was a bit Heavy Handed ( Not Every time).

Response by 1SG Gary Chicko made Jun 3 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-06-03T14:43:12-04:00

They should have picked him up but not to arrest him but take him to a hospital to get the help medically and mentally that he needs.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-06-03T15:11:27-04:00

I'm gonna probably cross everyone on this. Communicating a threat is NEVER, EVER the answer, no matter how desperate you are. Do I understand how the veteran felt? You're damned skippy! Did the veteran do wrong? YEP. Does the veteran still need help....absolutely!

Listen folks - communicating a threat to anyone was never an acceptable tactic when you were on active duty - what in the hell makes you think it's ok when you get out?

Nuff said.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-06-03T15:11:57-04:00

Tricky situation. In the schema of totality of circumstances he had to be taken to custody one way or another being that he was threat to self and public. Now after being in custody and possible around-the-clock supervision, I have a feeling that he'd be assessed as a depressed and desperate individual. I also speculate that the judge would drop charges against him and refer to a psychiatric rehab.

At the time of the event, something had to be done for him in order to control his threat to self and others, but I'm sure justice would prevail and he wouldn't be chaged but given appropriate care. God bless our vets and all others brave enough to speak out against own demons!

Response by LCpl Patrick Alexander made Jun 3 at 2015 3:24 PM

2015-06-03T15:24:44-04:00

Not only is it absolutely wrong to treat him in this manner, stories like this are pandemic. I know several veterans who could definitely benefit from VA assistance, but they are totally opposed to any contact with VA because they have come to expect to be treated badly. The feeling seems to be that the cure is worse than the disease. I don't know anyone who actually TRUSTS the VA, and that includes me.

Semper Fi. We need to take care of each other... we are the only ones who can.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 3 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-06-03T15:31:26-04:00

This is a disappointing way to deal with the situation, he said he needed help, well if they sent him help he wouldn't feel he needed to force someone to get him help. Desperate people will do desperate things but whatever it is that is making them desperate if it's relieved they stop being desperate. The operator clearly over reacted and in a sense did not have situational awareness for the call.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2015 3:40 PM

2015-06-03T15:40:45-04:00

"..mentions that he 'feels' like taking his gun with him..", I point out the 'feels' part. My interpretation of this statement is not that of communicating a threat, but one of frustration. He did not state that he 'would' take his gun with him, but that he 'feels like' taking his gun with him. That is not communicating a threat. That is an expression of frustration. The VA Staff over analyzed and misinterpreted the veterans conversation and his request for help.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Jun 3 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-06-03T16:34:28-04:00

I think they could have used some leeway in responding to this crisis call. I also think they need tot respond with caution as there have been far too many situations where veterans have shown up at VA Hospitals with firearms and have done harm to themselves or to others. My brother works at a VA Hospital and last year a veteran committed suicide at the flagpole. he was obviously in severe distress but he could have harmed others in the process.

Commonsense should prevail but arresting him is not commonsense.

Response by SFC Robert Pearson -SFCPearson made Jun 3 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-06-03T18:14:24-04:00

This is just another reason why veterans in need of help are reserved from calling the the VA help line.

Response by Cpl Raul DeMoura made Jun 3 at 2015 6:21 PM

2015-06-03T18:21:36-04:00

This "operator" should have been FIRED, on the spot & escorted OFF the property IMMEDIATELY! Its very obvious this Veteran had the BALLS to STEP UP, and CALL OUT for some help... and for that he gets charged with a FELONY? PLEASE!! This will only DETER other Veterans to call out for help. I cant count the number of times I drove a Veteran, TO the VA hospital in Nashville,Tn. and stayed with them until they GOT the help they needed! WE, as Veterans, OWE it to our fellow Marines, sailors, air men/women, & soldiers to help one another out. Mental health, is NO JOKE. Sure, he may have said somethings he should NOT have. HOWEVER, thats all part of "lashing out".... when people TALK about doing things like that, thats a call for help. If this person WANTED to take his life, OR, the lives of any VA staff, it would have JUST BEEN DONE!!

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made Jun 3 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-06-03T19:19:53-04:00

this just means that there is NO ONE to turn to when Veterans are in Crisis. Prosecuting this soldier means that fewer people will seek crisis assistance and may seek a more permanent solution to their mental problems.

This country doesn't want the soldier to feel anything. They want soldiers to return to civilian life as if nothing ever happened. Look at most counselors, they feel that if you push down the feelings and memories, you can become a healthy member of the society that you left and pickup right where you left off.

Response by SGT Carla Harper made Jun 3 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-06-03T20:33:10-04:00

I don't think anyone should be manning those phone lines unless they are a Vet who has "Been there, Done that" and if you can't find enough Vets to do that than at least have ONE on call for every X amount of operators, who can talk to and understand what the person in need on the other end of the phone is asking for.

I have heard of all the wonderful programs that have been started by Vets to help each other, maybe some of them could donate some time to monitor in-coming calls to places like the call center this ridiculous person worked at so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

I would do this in a heartbeat but the problem is I was never over there. I serviced durning the cold war and all I got was a Recognition of Service award. I love to talk to Vets about their time there but on some level I still, no matter how hard, can relate to something I have never been through.

Response by TSgt Gary Coons made Jun 3 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-06-03T21:23:19-04:00

I'd like to know more about this incident, but then again it really isn't any of my business. This sounded like to me an extremely urgent call for help, something that others might not have done and with a tragic end. Civilians will never understand and it is doubtful that the VA employee understood the urgency. I hope this soldier got the help he needed and perhaps the VA can "re-evaluate" the charges based on the individual incident.

Response by SFC James Massey made Jun 3 at 2015 9:36 PM

2015-06-03T21:36:09-04:00

He called for help, yes we have all said something stupid while under stress or duress. However this is wrong, although he communicated a threat against a government office and it's staff, he did so late in the conversation. I feel this veteran should have had that kind of action taken when he was so low he felt he could go no further. When this goes to court I do hope someone with at least 1/4 of a brain can see this was done under severe duress and he be placed where he can get help and not jail. The last thing anyone needs is another person in prison when they should be getting help. If not maybe the person who presides over this case needs to be taken where this man has been and do what he has done so he can get a clearer picture of what the right thing to do is.

Response by SGT Will Perkins made Jun 3 at 2015 10:09 PM

2015-06-03T22:09:27-04:00

http://www.22kill.com/
http://www.honorcouragecommitment.org/

To ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS OUT THERE:

This is just another resource we have to help us in the fight against the 22 suicides a day committed by our ranks. They are based here out of Dallas Texas. If you or anyone you know needs help reach out to these guys or someone please. At the very least check out the links

Honor America's Veterans - Become a Veterans' Advocate

Network of veterans and non-veterans who love America. 22KILL invests in "veteran capital" by empowering veterans through: education, community, mentorship.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Jun 3 at 2015 10:39 PM

2015-06-03T22:39:41-04:00

I can only see this as a systemic betrayal of trust of the worst kind. Sadly it wont be the last.

Response by SFC David Wood made Jun 4 at 2015 2:07 AM

2015-06-04T02:07:47-04:00

This veteran contacted the VA like he should have done. As to why he said what he did about taking a gun with him to the VA to force them to help him is not definitely known, and is not for any of us as the readers of the situation to guess about. In my estimation it is correct to have authorities with a mental health background visit asap, and provide help. Not the SWAT team busting in.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 8:08 AM

2015-06-04T08:08:32-04:00

VA loathing aside, they have a duty to report behavior that they think will lead to the harm of others and it seems like he made a very real threat that could not be ignored.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 8:23 AM

2015-06-04T08:23:26-04:00

The Soldier needs to be evaluated by a certified psychiatrist to determine his state of mind. My first reaction to this is that at some point as a society we have to determine where we draw the line on unacceptable behavior and stop creating gray areas that allow people the latitude to do whatever they want when they are unhappy.

Response by SGT Christopher Churilla made Jun 4 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-06-04T13:16:58-04:00

As a chaplain assistant, I have been trained in suicide prevention/intervention. I have learned that people in that state are not always thinking clearly, and in his desperation to get the help he needed, he overstated the seriousness of his intent.

We are always telling our Soldiers that if they need help they should ask for it. Is this the right message we want to send to them?

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 4 at 2015 2:08 PM

2015-06-04T14:08:18-04:00

I hope the Helpline operator is fired. It was a lack of support like this that probably caused the statement to be made. Where does the VA find these people? Please ignore these comments IF the Helpline operator was using this as the fastest and most effective way to get this person help...which it does not seem to be?

Response by SFC Zak Hay made Jun 4 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-06-04T15:36:35-04:00

This goes to show you that the VA is really out of touch with this generation of veterans like they were with other generations of veterans

Response by PO3 Michael James made Jun 4 at 2015 9:34 PM

2015-06-04T21:34:07-04:00

OUCH !!.. NO way to run a "Helpline" ! Yes, he made a potential threat, that was reported, he should have been picked up, and Evaluated, Admitted to a hospital and given the help, treatments needed.. NOT Jail !! Any charges against this man should be DROPPED. On a SUICIDE CRISIS Helpline, I am sure many things are said out of Frustration, Depression and Anger, however, No charges should be brought up against a Combat Veteran requesting HELP. Three COMBAT tours in Iraq.. and treated like SH.T ! Senator Lindsey Graham is running for president.. A Vet, he wants more "boots on the ground", and we STILL have Enormous PROBLEMS with the VA.. NO Honorably discharged Veteran returning home should ever have to engage in a major war with the VA.. It was an Honor to serve this Country... It Should be an Honor for this Country to serve its Veterans >>

Response by 1SG Dave Arpin made Jun 5 at 2015 6:57 AM

2015-06-05T06:57:35-04:00

The local police should have been contacted and told exactly what he said, "feels like taking a gun", the officers could have made contact, evaluated the situation and got him the help he needed instead of federal charges. Sad day in America when we cant take care of our veterans.

Response by SPC David Gilroy made Jun 5 at 2015 7:05 AM

2015-06-05T07:05:39-04:00

Honestly the Rep who was on the phone with him should have called the police and gotten him help that night...Obviously that person should not have that job...If the person would have been a combat vet I bet things would have turned out way different...But what do you expect from a mostly Civilian run Organization.

Response by SSG Sean Thoman made Jun 5 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-06-05T08:06:58-04:00

That operator should be fired, or should have informed those that person talked too of the nature of the call. There was a nurse at the Mansfield Ohio CBOC that got fired or forced to quit because she called the law too much and was not explaining the nature of the calls she was receiving.

Response by Sgt Tommy Johnson made Jun 5 at 2015 9:18 AM

2015-06-05T09:18:37-04:00

This is a tough call. Unfortunately, no one other than law enforcement authorities is better trained and equipped to make sure that this veteran is not a threat to others or to himself. With the potential for violence with weapons, after stating that he has a gun, regardless of the type of firearm he may possess, the Helpline operator's first priority was, and should be, to alert law enforcement authorities. Now, how the court deals with this incident is what matters most. Hopefully, this veteran will get some mental health assistance and get a grip on the demons that plague him. The best thing we can do for this veteran is to keep him in our prayers and write emails and/or letters to the court, beseeching the prosecutors and the judge assigned to this case to explore mental health treatment options for this veteran. So, if anyone can provide those details to the RallyPoint community, it would facilitate our ability to begin a letter-writing campaign on behalf of this troubled veteran.

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 5 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-06-05T15:01:11-04:00

This is a problem in how mental health is approached in treating. Take you meds but in crisis go to the emergency room. The issue is that when someone knows they are about to lose it they can't seek treatment via the emergency room as they are not in crisis. This approach only works if you need to be hospitalized into a psychiatric unit. However this is very optimistic in thinking that someone with a revolver in their mouth is going to go to the hospital is such dire straights. There seems to be a missing middle ground or third option where one can get admitted before they are so imbalanced. To compare this approach it would be like someone going to the hospital thinking they are having a heart attack and are told come back when you are for sure having a heart attack. This situation is further complicated with doctors being either private practice or on staff making rounds. You will be hard press to find one that does both. Out patient doctor treating one way in-patient another way. Having helped people in crisis this has been my experience - getting someone to the ER at 1700 and then waiting until 0300 until a room is found at a hospital that can take them. You can not call hospitals to see if they have a psych rooms open. They will not tell you. They will tell you to go to your closest ER. The ER method is your only option and you have to be in crisis. This is a very, very frustrating method for the individuals seeking treatment as well as for the friends and or families. Mentally fit or not this guy will be punished for the failures in the system as no one will look at this as why he resorted to making threats. They will just see this as "that's what crazy people do" and this case will only reinforce the stigma already burdening those with mental health issues. Very sad to see this happen.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jun 5 at 2015 11:31 PM

2015-06-05T23:31:02-04:00

I'll buy the first person who has never had problems with the VA a drink (and possibly call them a liar). No matter what your frustration levels are, it doesn't warrant saying that you feel lie taking a weapon into a government facility to raise some pulses. That behavior, although felt the same way by many a veteran, falls under the category of negatron, the biggest negatory of negative comments. Anyone waving a gun in my family's proximity saying how pissed they are is eligible for deadly force. Mandatory reporting REQUIRES that this type of action must be taken. Just imagine how much of a splash this story would have made had action NOT been taken and Mr Unhappy showed up with a Glock and 300 rounds of ammo and demanding to see the HMFIC. Anyone, veteran or not, who is that pissed, needs to have their weapons checked.

Response by CPL Matthew Victor Spagnuolo made Jun 7 at 2015 11:23 PM

2015-06-07T23:23:30-04:00

Should have gotten him help NOT THROW HIM IN JAIL! SERIOUSLY, what good is it to fuckin cry out for help bc he seriously needed it! Jail only is going to make it worse on him! Idiots!

Response by LCDR Bruce Cooley made Jun 8 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-06-08T15:16:25-04:00

Yes and no. the Soldier was clearly asking for help, and was showing extreme frustration with the entity that is there to help him. He absolutely DID communicate a threat and is technically guilty. However, a little common sense is needed here. You don't hammer a nail with a sledge hammer, and you don't "Arrest" a guy screaming for help. You DO notify the VA Police, and you DO ensure that the soldier is 'watched'....but arresting that individual will only deepen his growing distrust of the VA.....and make it harder for him to recover.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 8 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-06-08T15:59:21-04:00

I told a hospital that I wanted to Nuke them with a congressional. The effers said I made a terrorist threat.

Response by Sgt Sherry Taylor-Bruce made Jun 8 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-06-08T17:40:30-04:00

I agree with SFC Myall that veterans and active duty personal should call for help when they feel like the walls are closing in around them. I know of several individuals that have called the helpline and not get immediate help because they said they were not suicidal right then. I also know there are many on active duty now that won't seek help because they don't want it put into their personal records that they underwent mental health care. I think this information needs to be sealed and not accessable to other than health professionals.

My psychologist told me that the VA offers counseling as an employee benefit and only 4% take advantage of it. I would say even less active duty get counseling. Let's work on this issue and worry less about the feelings of Transgender individuals.

Response by Sgt Sherry Taylor-Bruce made Jun 8 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-08T18:05:49-04:00

This calls for additional training coming from the VA head office in dealing with veterans and active duty personal. New procedures or a script can be implemented in what to do in this situation. We can all learn from this and be better going forward.

SGT RACIE HUTCHONS I am sorry you had a bad experience however if you advocate for yourself and continue to request help the VA may come through for you. I live in a rather small community with a small VA facility; however they have a PTSD group that meets 4 days per week. Ask if you could join a group or contact your local Vet Center for help.

Never give up and never leave a soldier behind!

Response by TSgt Jeffrey Rose made Jun 9 at 2015 12:20 PM

2015-06-09T12:20:45-04:00

This is an ongoing problem with the helpline. As a mental health provider I see this this at work first hand in my work with my brother and sister Veterans. We are told they are there to help but like the rest of the government organizations we are treated like the terrorist that homeland security has claimed us to be rather than the wounded warriors that we are. Until this mindset changes many of our wounded warriors will continue to complete suicide at the unacceptable rate we see now. A balanced must be reached. This veteran wanted help that he was not getting. His approach was wrong but had this operator sent EMS to deal with the suicidal issue the homicidal threat would have not been an issue most likely. The VA is broke and we are falling through the cracks. Close the VA and use civilian medical to treat us. We will still have problems but people can at least be held accountable for their actions in this system unlike in the VA.

Response by SSG Dennis Feller made Jun 9 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-06-09T13:24:08-04:00

This is a prime example of people who are 'part of the problem and not part of the solution'. This is one of the reasons so many combat Vet's will not even talk to the VA about their issues. Fear of being labelled "Mentally Ill" or "Dangerous to Others" when all you want is some help to get your head right, get through a rough patch... I guarantee they pulled this poor SOB's right to keep and bear arms too. So IF he gets help, he will still be punished by never being allowed to own a firearm again due to being labelled by the very people he went to for assistance and the very government he bore arms to uphold.
Sorry for the rant, it pisses me off when we take someone that needs help and shove them into a criminal justice system that is neither present nor equipped for the reason of handling PTSD afflicted Veterans (or civilians either). I just happen to work in one of the largest Jails in my state as a correctional officer, so I do see this (all the time). Then, while in the system, they get referred to a "Veterans Assistance Officer" who tends to tell them that they are not eligible for their VA benefits while incarcerated. Insult to injury right?
No, the guy should not have said he thought about taking a gun to the VA. That was ill advised. But the VA hotline should not have immediately assumed he was serious and dangerous enough to warrant making a literal "federal case" out of the statement. IF, and only if, the statement was, "I AM going to bring my gun down there and shoot someone" rather than, "I've thought about bringing my gun to get my point across" should they have considered it a threat.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jun 10 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-06-10T14:06:29-04:00

This may sound strange but maybe this will get him the help he needs. Yes he went around the system by threatening violence, but where he is now will or at least should provide him some help.

Response by SGT Nathan Huff made Jun 10 at 2015 6:48 PM

2015-06-10T18:48:24-04:00

Ive worked suicide hot lines before. How the VA is handling this is horrid.

Response by SPC Curtis Long made Jun 10 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-06-10T20:34:56-04:00

As a veteran and mental health professional the issue is not simply whether he broke the law. He did break the law and, therefore, should be held accountable for that action. Having said this, the larger issue is why did he feel the need to go to such extreme measures to get help? How did our healthcare system so let him down that threats of violence were needed? The problem with simply arresting him is that he will not receive the help he needs in jail.

Response by MSgt Thomas Gentile made Jun 11 at 2015 3:26 AM

2015-06-11T03:26:36-04:00

too many ignorant stupid dumb ( non caring ) idiots (who call themselves ( AMERICANS ) in a position of destruction to man kind

Response by TSgt Robert Mahaffy made Jun 11 at 2015 10:19 AM

2015-06-11T10:19:20-04:00

And yet another reason that I will bleed out of my eyes before ever going to a VA hospital for help. The VA needs to be disbanded and funds dispersed to veterans so they can get treatment at civilian facilities. BTW, why the hell does the VA have it's own police force anyway?

Response by CPL Aloysius Grimaudo made Jun 11 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-06-11T14:56:09-04:00

Very similar situation happened to me...I was on probation for a impared5 driving...I called the v.a. help line just to talk to someone....I stated very clearly I was not suicidal...I just wanted someone to talk too. Immediatley she called the police...the police kicked my door in...took all my meds..for ptsd..and forced me to go to hospital...when I was realeased from hospital my probation officer put me in jail because I was told that any contact with the police is a violation of my probation...what is happening the out country...?

Response by SPC(P) Carlos Santini made Jun 18 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-06-18T14:30:24-04:00

All this tells me is that we can not call for any help because all they will do is punish us. It would be easier for me to just shoot myself then deal with the police.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Aug 28 at 2015 8:29 AM

2015-08-28T08:29:20-04:00

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-11-30T16:13:10-05:00

There are two parts to this story that need to looked at. First is that this veteran did make the threatening remarks which resulted in VA police arresting him, and this actually is a good thing. While not handled at all well by the VA, and certainly putting the veteran into a jail is not optimal either, jails are safe places with supervision and medical help. So the threatening remarks might actually result in this veteran getting help medically. Second is this event occurred in North Carolina which now has veteran's courts. This veteran should enter the veteran's court system which is much better suited to help veterans get them the help they deserve. I wish this veteran all the best luck and I hope he gets the help he deserves. As for the VA, I hope someone takes notice and address training and procedure shortfalls for these situations. This should also be a chance people at the federal and state level to come together and work out how to help veterans in these situations via veteran's courts, counseling, VA help, and other methods.