Veterans barred from US-built hotels in Germany?

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:09:49 -0400

GRAFENWÖHR, Germany — Some servicemembers and retirees will no longer be able to use an Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmisch following a recent review of the center’s reservations policies, the military said Tuesday.

The review found that rules on who can stay at the Army’s Installation Management Command-run resort were not being followed and that vacationers who were technically ineligible to stay at the resort were still being allowed to do so. As a result, the Edelweiss Lodge and Resort — a vacation destination popular with U.S. servicemembers — issued an update to its website in June defining eligibility.

Retirees are among the most affected by these guidelines. For example, military retirees not residing in Germany cannot stay at the resort unless they can prove they have spent at least 30 days in Europe. Those retirees living in Germany can stay at the hotel if they have proper tax authorization from a German customs office.

Servicemembers based in the continental United States are also barred from staying at the resort unless they are traveling with a sponsor who lives in Germany or they have been in Europe for longer than a month.

Active-duty personnel serving within U.S. European Command aren’t affected by this update and are still able to use the resort. This eligibility extends to National Guardsmen and reserve troops on active-duty status within EUCOM for more than 30 days.

Resort officials said the change in booking procedures was made in accordance with the Status of Forces Agreement between Germany and U.S. forces stationed here.

“It is an unfortunate development and we’re so sorry this may limit lodging options for servicemembers and retirees visiting Europe,” Clesson D. Allman, general manager of Edelweiss, said in a statement Tuesday. “But we must comply with the SOFA agreement.”

For a detailed breakdown of eligibility, potential vacationers should go to the Edelweiss official website.

http://www.stripes.com/news/some-us-troops-and-veterans-now-barred-from-garmisch-s-edelweiss-resort-1.359019

Some US troops and veterans now barred from Garmisch's Edelweiss resort

Some servicemembers and retirees will no longer be able to use an Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmisch following a recent review of the center’s reservations policies, the military said Tuesday.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 22 at 2015 9:11 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:11:15 -0400

SMH......I got nothing on this.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 22 at 2015 9:16 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:16:29 -0400

SGM Private RallyPoint Member I think that is bad business for those affected. I stayed there when I was stationed in Europe and would love to stay there again, but now that I'm retired and I couldn't afford to stay in Europe over 30 days to qualify.

"Retirees are among the most affected by these guidelines. For example, military retirees not residing in Germany cannot stay at the resort unless they can prove they have spent at least 30 days in Europe. Those retirees living in Germany can stay at the hotel if they have proper tax authorization from a German customs office.

Servicemembers based in the continental United States are also barred from staying at the resort unless they are traveling with a sponsor who lives in Germany or they have been in Europe for longer than a month."

If anything, they should be adding more locations within Germany or in that area to accommodate more military retirees, etc. Real shame!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 9:21 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:21:10 -0400

Currently living in Italy, I can say firsthand that SOFA agreements are a part of daily life, for better and for worse. Many of these agreements were fashioned decades ago, looking to form an agreement where we could happily coexist among our host nation's citizens. The problems is that times have changed drastically. For example, the SOFA here in Italy says that dependents are not allowed to work on the Italian economy, or to provide services for profit, as it detracts from the ability of the locals to sell their services. Women have been threatened with deportation for things as simple as babysitting another American's children, cutting hair, or continuing their home sales businesses. In the case where a spouse has a legitimate work from home position in an established company, some spouses fight for a year or more to obtain a work visa, and then are denied their on base privileges like health care and commissary access because they are not here on the mission visa with their sponsor.

So why not just renegotiate the SOFA? Unfortunately, the military members and majority of the spouses stand to lose a lot more. In the case of Italy, they have said upfront that a renegotiation would remove the paragraphs that allow us to skip paying many of the taxes that Italian residents face, such as car registration "road tax," a tax on each television in the home, and really, taxes on just about every other thing you can imagine as the economy keeps falling into a deeper hole here.

I imagine Germany's SOFA agreement is a similar situation. While their economy is doing much better than Italy's, Germany is known for making everything work to their benefit (can you blame them?). I imagine that the situation is being investigated, but at this point, a renegotiation of the SOFA, simply for veterans to be able to stay at the resort, would result in our service members losing even more overall.

I try to stay objective when I think about these things. Can you even imagine Germany having their own resort at Disney World in Florida? We are pretty lucky that we have access to Edelweiss at all!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 9:44 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:44:25 -0400

Woah... I sort of though US service members in CONUS were the targeted customers... Not sure what to think about this except that is sucks. I was planning to go there next year.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jul 22 at 2015 10:24 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 10:24:30 -0400

SGM Private RallyPoint Member - SOFAs are negotiated by the Department of State, not DoD, and, therefore, there is no impetuous to renegotiate them where they would be more favorable to military personnel or their family members.

When I was assigned to the USAREUR Provost Marshal Office, SOFA/Customs fell under my responsibility. I routinely got calls from irate military retirees because of the rules (taxes required to be paid on commissary purchases, inability to use APO, etc., etc.). A typical call was, "I can shop in the commissary at Ft Bragg, why can't I in Germany?" Of course, they did not like the answer that I gave them, which was that they chose to live in a foreign country and that they are required to live by that country's laws and any agreements between that country and the US, as it pertained to military personnel and their family members, as well as retirees and their family members.

I got complaints from members of the Army Reserve in Germany about not being allowed in the commissary except during certain times and, then, having to pay taxes on purchases, IAW the SOFA. I told them that, if I were them, I would simply wear my uniform to the commissary and PX. In that way, the ID card was not checked and nobody would question if they were active or reserve.

One day, one of my Military Customs supervisors came to see me to inform me that they were going to apprehend an Air Force major from SHAPE HQ when he showed up at the Heidelberg PX to pick up a bicycle he had ordered. The SOFA did not allow a military member assigned outside of Germany to purchase items in AAFES facilities in Germany. Apparently, the AAFES bike shop in Heidelberg carried a certain bike that the major could not get in Belgium, so he ordered it and was going to pick it up. During a routine check of sales slips/order forms by my Customs folks, they noticed the "violation" and were going to apprehend him when he showed up to pick up the bike. I, of course, told them that they would not apprehend the major (as I thought it was dumb, even if it was IAW the SOFA), but I did not want to be on record of violating the law or telling them to disregard the law. What I did was call the major and explain the situation to him. I purchased the bike for him and he picked it up at my house. There is always a way to get things done, if you really want to help people.

I did find that the German Customs folks were very reasonable and I was able to get them to grant a great many "exceptions" to the SOFA, to include blanket exceptions for certain things. For example, we got blanket exceptions for military family members to use AAFES, Commissary, medical and other facilities in Germany (and Italy) when their sponsors were deployed or TDY. Technically, they were not authorized to use those facilities if the sponsors were assigned out of the country for any reason (to include temporary duty, leave, etc.).

I met with the German Customs Minister in Bonn one day and mentioned that my Customs folks seemed to have more difficulty getting exceptions from his folks than I had getting them from him. He asked me to come to the window and look outside. From his window, we could see the US Embassy and the US flag flying. He stated that he had grown up during WWII and had seen what the US had done to help Germany after the war. He said that, when he had a decision to make that could go either way, he would go to his window and look at the flag and decide in favor of the US. He said that his folks, most of whom were much younger than him, had no such "love" for the US and its military members. He told me that I could always call him to get a favorable response to our requests, which I did, when appropriate.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Jul 22 at 2015 11:14 AM

CDR Terry Boles — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:14:58 -0400

Its a real shame. We recently stayed there this month, my other half is stationed with USAFE, and the restrictions were apparent. Without her sponsorship, I alone would not have qualified since my duty station is in the continental US. It's a shame, as we retire in the near future we certainly would like to stay at these types of resorts all across the globe during our travels.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 3:18 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:18:14 -0400

What should we expect after being caught spying on the German Chancellor? Can you really blame them?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 9:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:30:20 -0400

The Germans are better with money than we are, they've only been in the red twice in the modern era and this is a great example. Someone fell asleep at the wheel at the negotiating table for the SOFA. This sets the stage for a turn over to the German government. Given the fact that this is prime ski real estate, they must be salivating. Too bad, I had planned to travel to Germany next year for Christmas...looks like Garmisch is out now.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 22 at 2015 9:36 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:36:56 -0400

Unbelievable for retirees wanting to see Graf again. Sad state of affairs.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jul 23 at 2015 1:44 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:44:29 -0400

Well that just bloody well sucks.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 23 at 2015 8:31 AM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:31:03 -0400

Well that sucks! I guess I'll be staying at a hostel if I ever travel to Germany!

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Jul 23 at 2015 10:15 AM

COL Jeff Williams — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 10:15:04 -0400

I partially agree. When I was active, to make a reservation at a armed forces resort was nearly impossible. Why? I was told by the management most of the available days were taken by retirees. I don't think the intent of these places was for guys like me now

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 11:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:49:49 -0400

I think that it is a wrong decision.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jul 23 at 2015 1:22 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:22:35 -0400

No bueno. Travelling this big blue marble as a retired vet is top on the list and I would have tried to stay there. I'll head towards te pacific and leave Germany off the list. I planned on staying at that very resort.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 1:31 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:31:18 -0400

I haven't been to Germany, but it wouldn't surprise me. In 88 while in Paris, the City Rock Cafe (formally Hard Rock Cafe) wouldn't allow SM's in the establishment.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 1:36 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:36:01 -0400

It may be pure economics, but I think it's a shame to do something like this that may start a trend at similar vacation sites.

Response by CSM Jennifer Dehorty made Jul 23 at 2015 2:38 PM

CSM Jennifer Dehorty — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 14:38:58 -0400

This has to do with a treaty aggreement between GE and US; no worries about other spots. We (US) was in error for many years. This is the correction to that error.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Jul 23 at 2015 8:03 PM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:03:01 -0400

(rules on who can stay at the Army’s Installation Management Command-run resort were not being followed and that vacationers who were technically ineligible) Whose fault is that? Surely not the retirees from the states sounds like an internal problem that will make them suffer for their mistakes.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jul 23 at 2015 8:10 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:10:15 -0400

That stinks. I guess next it will be "We can't make a profit, so we have to charge higher prices." After that, business will drop off even further. Then, the military will just shut it down and hand it over to Germany.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 12:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 00:53:05 -0400

I actually agree with this policy change. I was stationed in Germany the last few years and never stayed at Edelweiss because the wait list was always so long. I believe that Edelweiss was designed to be a retreat for soldiers stationed in Germany, not soldiers wanting a discounted vacation to Europe.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 1:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:00:46 -0400

I 100% agree with this change. I was stationed in Germany these last few years and was never able to stay there because the wait list was always so crazy. You either had to plan months out or be in marriage counseling to go. I don't believe that Edelweiss was created as a discounted European vacation for soldiers and veterans, it was designed as a retreat for soldiers stationed for long periods of time away from home.

Response by SSG Paul Lanciault made Jul 24 at 2015 10:33 AM

SSG Paul Lanciault — Fri, 24 Jul 2015 10:33:48 -0400

Did they give any reason?

Response by CSM David Heidke made Aug 4 at 2015 12:04 PM

CSM David Heidke — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 12:04:52 -0400

Another thing Reservists won't be able to do...

I spent my two week R&R there and it was a memory that will last a life time.

This kind of twerks me.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Aug 3 at 2016 1:49 PM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 13:49:26 -0400

Gee and I thought we were still technically an occupying army due to WWII, guess not!!