Veterans discharged for misconduct have higher risk of homelessness. I read this and I don't think it's true. What do you think?

2015-08-26T18:44:13-04:00

I read this report and believe the VA is publishing something that isn't true. No other studies have been done by this doctor, plus, I think he is biased. It actually pisses me off. See what you think.

The researchers used data on 448,290 U.S. active-duty military service members who were separated from the military between 2001 and 2011, deployed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and who subsequently used Veterans Health Administration services.

Service members who separate from the military have Department of Defense codes attributing the separation to misconduct including drugs, alcoholism, offenses and infraction, disability, early release, disqualified, normal, or unknown.

Almost 25,000 of the people in the database had been separated for misconduct, less than six percent of the total group.

According to the report 26% of folks discharged for misconduct are homeless when they first show up at the VA. Of course, in my opinion, they get it all exactly backwards. The military gives bad conduct discharges to people who exhibit anti-social behavior, so yeah, they’re probably going to exhibit anti-social behavior when they hit the streets, too. It’s not the type of discharge that causes the behavior, it’s the type of person that gets those discharges.

The study goes on to blame PTSD and combat experiences for the anti-social behavior, but they don’t mention how many of the separated service members actually participated in a PTSD-producing event. Additionally, as we’ve seen several times, the VA has done a piss-poor job of separating pretend veterans from the actual veterans, so what safe guards did the good doctor use in this study? Some of our friends have jobs in the private sector for helping veterans and they’ve lost their jobs for scrutinizing these pretend veterans too closely.

I could have told Doctor Gundlapalli how his study would end before it started. Rather than focus on the 10% of his sampling who are still homeless after 10 years, he should be looking at how the other 90% are beating those odds.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/veterans-discharged-misconduct-higher-risk-homelessness-153400314.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

Veterans discharged for misconduct have higher risk of homelessness

By Kathryn Doyle (Reuters Health) - U.S. veterans returning from Afghanistan and Iraq who were discharged due to misconduct are more likely to be homeless than other returning vets, according to a new study. “Collectively, these results represent the strongest risk factor for homelessness among U.S. veterans observed to date, and may help to explain the higher risk of homelessness observed among veterans, despite access to VA benefits and...

Response by PFC Joseph Levi made Aug 26 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-08-26T18:46:56-04:00

There was another discussion on this saying vets that are discharged with a other than honorable discharge are more likely to be homeless

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 6:48 PM

2015-08-26T18:48:23-04:00

The only thing I could see that MIGHT back it up, is that if discharged for misconduct it could be harder to get a job. Joblessness and homelessness definitely relate.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-08-26T19:15:27-04:00

These people are accountable for their behavior, no one else. As SGT Private RallyPoint Member says what about the other 90% "that are beating the odds," In the civilian world, if you commit a crime and its on your record, it's going to be difficult to get a job, because you displayed traits that were irresponsible. I won't enable irresponsibility, when I know the system was fair.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 26 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-08-26T19:51:20-04:00

Makes sense...

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 26 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-08-26T19:57:48-04:00

The bigger issue, as far as I know is mental illness. The military discharged untold numbers of folks with combat PTSD during these wars, claiming they had "personality defects" and thus had fraudulently enlisted. This was a very cynical tactic taken to avoid treating and paying for disability related to PTSD, something the military is still lacking in.

Then there are other veterans who have mental illness other than PTSD. These folks will often have disciplinary issues and substance abuse issues. Again, the military tends to discharge these folks, rather than dealing with the illnesses.

So the bottom line is that the misconduct is often symptomatic of bigger problems that DOD won't take on. These people are put out with not so much as a thank you, never mind benefits. And they get an OTH or lower discharge classification, or are processed for fraudulent enlistment for personality defect, they also tend to lose eligibility for VA disability compensation and healthcare.

So the military is, bottom line, creating this situation by not properly dealing with active duty folks who have PTSD or other types of mental illness, and instead sweeping the problem under the rug.

SGT Private RallyPoint Member if you're angry about this, and you rightfully should be, it's time to pressure your Congressmen and Senators to make changes to correct these wrongs done to folks who, after all, deployed down range and saw combat. The old rule "you broke it, you bought it" should apply, and DOD and VA need to be held accountable for proper treatment of these folks...

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Aug 26 at 2015 8:04 PM

2015-08-26T20:04:08-04:00

Keith, this does seem to make sense to me because of the embarrassment of failure . They obviously would not want to meet up with anyone they knew who would ask them any questions about what happened? Ya, I can see it.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 8:19 PM

2015-08-26T20:19:21-04:00

Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that this makes sense. People discharged in other than honorable conditions have some kind of problem to have received such a discharge. Therefore I don't find it a conflict to see that they also run into trouble in civilian life. And as previously stated the problems may well be compounded by the stigma of there discharge making it even harder to find work and to adjust.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 26 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-08-26T21:10:38-04:00

I knew a PFC who was in the WTU for PTSD. He survived his first DUI, but the second DUI gave him a bad conduct chapter. Just saying.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 26 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-08-26T21:23:45-04:00

Hey SGT Private RallyPoint Member I've read a study on suicide and early separation under OTH conditions that shows there is a strong correlation for increaded risk. Some 63% more likely to commit suicide so I could understand how there might be a connection with homelessness. Something about being disenfranchised does not sit well with service members.

There could be mental health, drug and alcohol, or other issues contributing to the suicide and maybe the homelessness problem as the study did not take any other factors into consideration. I think it would be wise to stratify this research based on reasons for the homelessness as the OTH seems more of predictive indicator than the source of the problem.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2211891

Risk of Suicide Among US Military Service Members Following Deployment

This retrospective cohort design uses administrative data to examine the association between deployment and suicide among all 3.9 million US military personnel who served during Operation Enduring Freedom or Operation Iraqi Freedom, including suicides that occurred after separation.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 26 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-08-26T21:32:06-04:00

Not surprised and don't know that I have any good suggestions to resolve this problem.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 9:26 AM

2015-08-27T09:26:27-04:00

I feel it goes hand in had as in: If you are undisciplined in the Military, chances are that your are undisciplined in life.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 27 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-08-27T12:50:38-04:00

I can see how that would happen. If the misconduct is due to not being willing to do what you're told, that won't get better in a civilian environment. That can lead to unemployment, and homelessness.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Aug 27 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-08-27T18:01:54-04:00

You appear to be mixing "risk factor" with causation. The study isn't saying the discharge leads to homelessness. It says that bad conduct discharges are a strong indicator of future homelessness.

This makes complete sense since most of the guys discharged like this have significant mental and behavioral issues that made them unfit for service. Where the problem lies is in how those mental health issues were acquired. Combat trauma, chemical exposure, whatever, has been demonstrated to lead to problematic behavior that should probably be considered when evaluating eligibility for benefits.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 29 at 2015 8:59 AM

2015-08-29T08:59:10-04:00

I've long suspected that the military, particularly the Army (and I'll discuss that shortly) has a habit of giving OTH or worse (BCD and DD) discharges to "problem" members rather than getting to the root of the problem, which is often PTSD.

I don't know how many veterans I've read about who have been documented as having PTSD, whether it was diagnosed before or after they left the service, who have died of overdosing/suicide because they self-medicate, can't hold down a job, and/or are homeless. Further research has revealed that some of these people received adverse discharges.

Now I'll explain why I said the Army. In almost all of the stories I've read, the service member seems to be a former Soldier. A lot of times these guys would have 1 or more combat deployments. After return from deployment the problems seem to start. The drinking, drug use, DUI's, insubordination to Officers/SNCO's, etc. Sometimes these guys would get sent for a mental health evaluation, sometimes they wouldn't. I also noticed that if they went to an Army shrink, they would say, "There's nothing wrong with this guy" and the Soldier would get kicked out. Yet these same Soldiers were diagnosed with PTSD by civilian psychiatrists. See the problem yet?

Military shrinks were only interested in "Is this guy stable enough to deploy again? If not, and he has a history of misconduct let's kick him out instead of getting them the help they need..." A civilian shrink comes along and says "Hey, I think this guy has PTSD and maybe his discharge should be upgraded so they can get help. The military broke them so they should be responsible for helping them..." but the military says "Civilian, you don't know what you're talking about..."

Of course, there are always the few people who "slip through the cracks" and should never have joined/made it through Boot Camp in the first place and get what they deserve.

Response by PFC Jade Stone made Dec 30 at 2020 9:17 PM

2020-12-30T21:17:24-05:00

Well, as a Veteran and a nurse, I worked at a military installation and seen the records of these individuals. Lots of drug addicts and thugs who should have never been enlisted to begin with. Yet, the US military was so desperate that they enlisted them anyway. General discharge that one day becomes honorable for service not completed. That right there is a big problem many Vietnam veterans have a problem with...