Posted on Nov 15, 2014
Veterans Hospital Police: what kind of experiences have you had dealing with them? Good or bad?
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The VA Police an armed, federal law enforcement and protective service entity that operates in various Veterans Affairs Medical Centers, the motto on their cars and uniforms state “protecting those who have served.”
About two years ago I had to go to the VA emergency room, my truck at the time I normally drove as my daily driver was down. So I had my friend drive me in my hunting rig, a 1979 International Scout II, the Right front blinker was out, out here where I live that’s not really a big deal, and the light was not burned out it was just touchy, a bump here or a bump there would make it work or not work. I knew this was an issue and had repaired it many times but that’s what it means to own an old piece of equipment.
So my friend and I are making a right turn in to the Spokane VA, my friend is in the process of parking the Scout when all of a sudden we see red and blue lights behind us and we here the siren of a police car. We both look behind us and we see this VA cop getting out of his car hand on his holster as if he was going to draw down on us, I look back toward the VA and see six officers coming out looking like they were tact up to go out in to sector. At 2200 hours there were maybe 4 vehicles in the parking lot and we were the only ones in the vicinity of what was happening. It did not take me long to figure out we were the reason for the greeting we were getting.
I asked what the problem was and was promptly informed that my right front blinker was out. I limped my way over to the offending light that brought down a world of crap un me and my friend and tapped it once with my finger and it started blinking.
The officer smiled and said nice rig, my anger over rode whatever shut off switch I had for my mouth and I told the Officer what I thought of him his lack of professionalism, that if he truly felt he needed to say something he could wait until we had parked, that he did not need to call out the VA SWAT team to confront a driver with a non working blinker.
Ever since this time I have noticed these guys walking around making life difficult for veterans at the VA. Am I the only one that has seen this or have taken issue with these people.
I get it, some of us are unstable for obvious reasons but I feel that if these guys need to be there than they need to be more professional than what I have been seeing from them. Not to mention many of us are combat veterans and this to me seems like a good way to push a VET over the line, especially confronting them in such a manner that could have been easily mentioned with kind words and respect.
About two years ago I had to go to the VA emergency room, my truck at the time I normally drove as my daily driver was down. So I had my friend drive me in my hunting rig, a 1979 International Scout II, the Right front blinker was out, out here where I live that’s not really a big deal, and the light was not burned out it was just touchy, a bump here or a bump there would make it work or not work. I knew this was an issue and had repaired it many times but that’s what it means to own an old piece of equipment.
So my friend and I are making a right turn in to the Spokane VA, my friend is in the process of parking the Scout when all of a sudden we see red and blue lights behind us and we here the siren of a police car. We both look behind us and we see this VA cop getting out of his car hand on his holster as if he was going to draw down on us, I look back toward the VA and see six officers coming out looking like they were tact up to go out in to sector. At 2200 hours there were maybe 4 vehicles in the parking lot and we were the only ones in the vicinity of what was happening. It did not take me long to figure out we were the reason for the greeting we were getting.
I asked what the problem was and was promptly informed that my right front blinker was out. I limped my way over to the offending light that brought down a world of crap un me and my friend and tapped it once with my finger and it started blinking.
The officer smiled and said nice rig, my anger over rode whatever shut off switch I had for my mouth and I told the Officer what I thought of him his lack of professionalism, that if he truly felt he needed to say something he could wait until we had parked, that he did not need to call out the VA SWAT team to confront a driver with a non working blinker.
Ever since this time I have noticed these guys walking around making life difficult for veterans at the VA. Am I the only one that has seen this or have taken issue with these people.
I get it, some of us are unstable for obvious reasons but I feel that if these guys need to be there than they need to be more professional than what I have been seeing from them. Not to mention many of us are combat veterans and this to me seems like a good way to push a VET over the line, especially confronting them in such a manner that could have been easily mentioned with kind words and respect.
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Edited >1 y ago
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Thanks for sharing your story, SGT Kevin Gardner. I'm not a frequent visitor to VA facilities, but I have gone several times, usually in Baltimore. I haven't noticed what you described.
I think you probably hit the nail on the head regarding "issues" that some vets have. The VA police may be overly sensitive to that. And, while I mean no disrespect at all to the VA police, there could be a bit of the Barney Fife syndrome in them ... I don't know. To have four or six officers "coming at you" because of a bad blinker, well I'm thinking of Barney Fife trying to get that bullet out of his shirt pocket.
I think you probably hit the nail on the head regarding "issues" that some vets have. The VA police may be overly sensitive to that. And, while I mean no disrespect at all to the VA police, there could be a bit of the Barney Fife syndrome in them ... I don't know. To have four or six officers "coming at you" because of a bad blinker, well I'm thinking of Barney Fife trying to get that bullet out of his shirt pocket.
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I can relate to your story. About 5 years ago when I lived in Oklahoma City, I had contacted the VA Regional office in Muskogee OK to see if I could get a letter that the I.R.S. had requested stating I had paid the VA the money back. And after receiving that letter they would refund the tax money.
I had received a severance when I was medically retired, the VA said It was double dipping so I paid it back. Well that money I paid back was also the taxes that had been deducted from that money. About $5.000. Well I asked the rep if he could send me a letter stating it was paid in full. He said he couldn't. That no such letter existed. He told me he could see that my account was paid in full.
So hot headed as I am I drove to Muskogee and went to the Regional office and asked to speak with the rep. I was told I could not. Once I identified myself I was hand cuffed by the VA Police and escorted from the building and told never to return.
Funny enough last year I asked for that letter again and the rep said sure thing no problem. Excited I called the I.R.S. And informed them I had the letter and needed to know what address I should send it to. The lady said no air it's too late for you to get that money back.
I wonder how many of us they got like that?
I had received a severance when I was medically retired, the VA said It was double dipping so I paid it back. Well that money I paid back was also the taxes that had been deducted from that money. About $5.000. Well I asked the rep if he could send me a letter stating it was paid in full. He said he couldn't. That no such letter existed. He told me he could see that my account was paid in full.
So hot headed as I am I drove to Muskogee and went to the Regional office and asked to speak with the rep. I was told I could not. Once I identified myself I was hand cuffed by the VA Police and escorted from the building and told never to return.
Funny enough last year I asked for that letter again and the rep said sure thing no problem. Excited I called the I.R.S. And informed them I had the letter and needed to know what address I should send it to. The lady said no air it's too late for you to get that money back.
I wonder how many of us they got like that?
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SGT Kevin Gardner
You need to reach out to a VSO, (Veteran Service officer) and it’s not too late. Also if the IRS is claiming that you have exceeded the stature of limitations that’s crap the people who answer the phone for the IRS don't have any clue as to what they are doing the same thing happened to me, except I knew better only because I had a former troop have it happen to him when he got out. if you take that letter to an accountant when you file your taxes you will get that money back, just do not take it to H&R block or any other pop up tax service find an actual accountant and explain it to him. if the IRS is still going to deny payment contact your local congressmen and or senator, that last bit of advice leaves a sour taste in my mouth i don't like dealing with politicians. I always feel dirty afterward like i had somehow just got done making a deal with a demon or something. Lawyers make me feel the same way as well.
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SPC Jack Hunt, JR
Oh brother I feel the same way about lawyers and politicians. I appreciate the advice and I'll give it another shot. Thank again, Jack
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Sorry for the negative interaction with the VA Police. If you did not after this occurrence already, I would make a complaint to the leadership. If they get enough complaints, they may in fact take some action to rectify it in the future.
Thanks for you service.
Thanks for you service.
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LTC Paul Heinlein
As it relates to Police Officer Tactics...
1. You try to pick the location of the traffic stop so it is tactically beneficial to you. Try to not allow the vehicle you are pulling over to determine the location of the stop. Criminals during a traffic stops often delay pulling over so they can hide evidence of a crime etc.
2. Placing hand on weapon while approaching a vehicle is common practice, especially at night when it is harder to see and your reaction time will probably be slower. In some instances when you believe the there may be a threat, you may even take your weapon out of the holster and place it down by your side or slightly behind you as you approach a vehicle.
3. During a traffic stop, the occupants are being detained and subject to the orders of the Police Officer until the traffic stop it complete. If you get out of the vehicle without being ordered to and/or against the orders of the Police Officer, then you have just raised the stress factor of the stop. Technically, if ordered to stay in the vehicle and you did not, that is the crime of obstruction or resisting. When someone gets out a vehicle on a Police Officer against directions (especially when there is still someone in the vehicle) that increases the possibility for the Police Officer that he is about to be assaulted. During traffic stops, if a Occupant gets out without orders, I always order them back into the vehicle. Only when the traffic stop is complete (I've run all the info, I gave them the warning or ticket) do I let them get out of the vehicle to check the deficiency (assuming it is a light out or something).
4. As far as all the other Police Tact'd up. You may have gone there during a night where they had a training event going on and they were just checking what is going on. During traffic stops, it is more common for another Officer/s (un-requested) to back up up at night versus the day time.
Recently, we had a training day for range qualifications. For ranges, we wear Cammies. Also we qualify on Patrol Rifle, Shotgun, Duty Side Arm, Back ups etc. While we were preparing to go to the range, the post office got a bomb threat. So they used everyone that was going to the range to block off streets etc...so that the on duty road officers could continue to provide protection to the city. Needless to say, we drew a lot of attention because of the clothes we were wearing and all the weapons we were carrying (we were not in our normal blue uniforms and we had all our long rifles with us...we had to make sure they were secure etc..). Had this happened any other day, this would not have been the case.
When you pull over someone, you never know what you are going to get. I recently pulled over a handicapped plated vehicle for expired plates. I felt bad about it initially, but did it anyways cause I knew I would only give a verbal warning assuming all else was ok. Needless to say, neither occupant was handicapped or owned the vehicle, the driver had warrants, a revoked license, drugs on him. The passenger got out of the vehicle ran over to another vehicle to throw bag in it...which ended up having a bunch of drugs in it and they had warrants also. So you never know what you are going to get.
1. You try to pick the location of the traffic stop so it is tactically beneficial to you. Try to not allow the vehicle you are pulling over to determine the location of the stop. Criminals during a traffic stops often delay pulling over so they can hide evidence of a crime etc.
2. Placing hand on weapon while approaching a vehicle is common practice, especially at night when it is harder to see and your reaction time will probably be slower. In some instances when you believe the there may be a threat, you may even take your weapon out of the holster and place it down by your side or slightly behind you as you approach a vehicle.
3. During a traffic stop, the occupants are being detained and subject to the orders of the Police Officer until the traffic stop it complete. If you get out of the vehicle without being ordered to and/or against the orders of the Police Officer, then you have just raised the stress factor of the stop. Technically, if ordered to stay in the vehicle and you did not, that is the crime of obstruction or resisting. When someone gets out a vehicle on a Police Officer against directions (especially when there is still someone in the vehicle) that increases the possibility for the Police Officer that he is about to be assaulted. During traffic stops, if a Occupant gets out without orders, I always order them back into the vehicle. Only when the traffic stop is complete (I've run all the info, I gave them the warning or ticket) do I let them get out of the vehicle to check the deficiency (assuming it is a light out or something).
4. As far as all the other Police Tact'd up. You may have gone there during a night where they had a training event going on and they were just checking what is going on. During traffic stops, it is more common for another Officer/s (un-requested) to back up up at night versus the day time.
Recently, we had a training day for range qualifications. For ranges, we wear Cammies. Also we qualify on Patrol Rifle, Shotgun, Duty Side Arm, Back ups etc. While we were preparing to go to the range, the post office got a bomb threat. So they used everyone that was going to the range to block off streets etc...so that the on duty road officers could continue to provide protection to the city. Needless to say, we drew a lot of attention because of the clothes we were wearing and all the weapons we were carrying (we were not in our normal blue uniforms and we had all our long rifles with us...we had to make sure they were secure etc..). Had this happened any other day, this would not have been the case.
When you pull over someone, you never know what you are going to get. I recently pulled over a handicapped plated vehicle for expired plates. I felt bad about it initially, but did it anyways cause I knew I would only give a verbal warning assuming all else was ok. Needless to say, neither occupant was handicapped or owned the vehicle, the driver had warrants, a revoked license, drugs on him. The passenger got out of the vehicle ran over to another vehicle to throw bag in it...which ended up having a bunch of drugs in it and they had warrants also. So you never know what you are going to get.
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SGT Kevin Gardner
A lot of what you mention would make sense except for the fact that these same uniformed officers have been seen bullying Veterans in the hallways at the spokane VA, I know complaints have been filed and none of those complaints have ever been handled. I spoke with the person in charge that night and he told me that whatever rights I had, I forfeited the second i pulled on to federal land.
I understand that every police officer has a right to feel safe while on duty and he must provide for his own security, that i do not have a problem with, the problem begins when the level of force applied becomes excessive. what i saw was intimidation, and its a tactic a lot of us know well from combat deployments. the thing is we are here not there.
there could be multiple reasons for what has happened not just to me but to other Veterans who utilize the Spokane VA, but from that officers, supervisors comments, and the actions i have viewed tells me that this is more of a matter of being to idle and needing something to do even if that thing is tormenting the same people your paid to look after. like i stated before I get it, "some of us are unstable for obvious reasons but I feel that if these guys need to be there than they need to be more professional than what I have been seeing from them. Not to mention many of us are combat veterans and this to me seems like a good way to push a VET over the line, especially confronting them in such a manner that could have been easily mentioned with kind words and respect."
I understand that every police officer has a right to feel safe while on duty and he must provide for his own security, that i do not have a problem with, the problem begins when the level of force applied becomes excessive. what i saw was intimidation, and its a tactic a lot of us know well from combat deployments. the thing is we are here not there.
there could be multiple reasons for what has happened not just to me but to other Veterans who utilize the Spokane VA, but from that officers, supervisors comments, and the actions i have viewed tells me that this is more of a matter of being to idle and needing something to do even if that thing is tormenting the same people your paid to look after. like i stated before I get it, "some of us are unstable for obvious reasons but I feel that if these guys need to be there than they need to be more professional than what I have been seeing from them. Not to mention many of us are combat veterans and this to me seems like a good way to push a VET over the line, especially confronting them in such a manner that could have been easily mentioned with kind words and respect."
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LTC Paul Heinlein
SGT Kevin Gardner,
If you made a complaint at the local level and it did not get dealt with appropriately, research the next step and continue to lodge the complaint until you run into someone who will listen. I know it may be frustrating, but no more frustrating if you do not pursue it.
If you made a complaint at the local level and it did not get dealt with appropriately, research the next step and continue to lodge the complaint until you run into someone who will listen. I know it may be frustrating, but no more frustrating if you do not pursue it.
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