Virginia National Guard AT in November; what can somebody full time in college do?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:27:41 -0400

Just found out the drill dates for FY 16 , my unit is having AT in November, I'm currently in my senior year in college and will be graduating in December, CCs and former CCs would let your SM be excused from AT and make up the days in the summer or say college comes second. 2 weeks is a lot of school to miss in the middle of the school year.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 8:33 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:33:04 -0400

Wow. I have never heard having AT during the fall. What VA ARNG unit are you with? I am with 276 EN BN. Maybe I can help?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 5 at 2015 8:47 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:47:57 -0400

Your CofC should allow you to do an alternate AT or year-round AT as a work around because you have a valid reason. Go through your chain, PSG to 1SG to CCdr if necessary, to get this resolved as early as possible. As a former CCdr, I can't think of a single reason that your request wouldn't be granted. I let soldiers do Alt AT or YRAT ILO summer ATs for lesser reasons.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jun 5 at 2015 2:43 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:43:16 -0400

Work with your Professors in advance. A lot of schools record the lectures these days - perhaps you can watch the lectures later, and get a waiver from your profs for due dates on assignments, exams, etc.

I completed a Master's degree on active duty, while being TAD (TDY) 2-3 weeks a month, and watching the classes on tapes...

Most professors are willing to work with the military, and it may be that there is also protection under the Soldier's and Sailor's Relief Act...

Response by CPT Laurie H. made Jun 5 at 2015 3:13 PM

CPT Laurie H. — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 15:13:52 -0400

Civilian education conflicts has to be one of the most compelling reasons for a Soldier to be granted an alternate AT. I honestly can't imagine any Commander would not let you make up AT, especially if you approach them with a plan. Let them know exactly when you're available and more than likely they'll work with you so it works out for both you and your leadership.

Since you just found out the training dates, bring up the conflict ASAP. Your CoC will appreciate that you are on top of your commitments.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 11:00 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 23:00:56 -0400

Wow. My wife is part of the VA Guard and her AT for FY14 fell into September. It was weird, I think it ended up being 3 weeks too. Some JROTT thing I think. Crazy though. Hope it works out!

Response by Lt Col Larry Gamble made Jun 10 at 2015 12:45 PM

Lt Col Larry Gamble — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:45:19 -0400

Unless you are having a major inspection or exercise during that AT, your leadership should be accommodating to letting you reschedule. It is something to bring up early and not spring it on them after they started the deployment planning.

Response by SSG Ken Lohmann made Jun 10 at 2015 2:48 PM

SSG Ken Lohmann — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:48:43 -0400

Sgt Foy I would also inform, and discuss with, your Professors/instructors your drill/AT schedule once classes resume in the fall. If your not excused from your AT then you may be able to arrange makeup or bring some work with you to AT. At worst you can drop a class and take another one that aligns with your degree plan that would be more accommodating. Having taught at the university level I have seen various ways in which faculty have handled extended absences from class, from advising the student to drop to bending over backwards to allow the student to complete the course material. Tenured Professors are given wide latitude in how they conduct their classes and in some cases regardless of university policy.

Response by SFC Harry (Billy) Tison made Jun 10 at 2015 2:49 PM

SFC Harry (Billy) Tison — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:49:10 -0400

The unit I was in didn't like me being off for drills and AT to attend college. Fortunately, for me at least, I had surgery that forced me to retire, so I could finish my schooling

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made Jun 10 at 2015 3:46 PM

LTC Brian Croteau — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:46:58 -0400

When I commanded a USAR company, one year we had a major exercise we were supporting and would be sending chunks of the unit in increments beginning in March. One of my soldiers was a college student who couldn't go for the whole 2-week chunk in the middle of the semester, so I arranged an alternate AT for him with a different unit that had a need for his MOS. It can be done, but the command structure has to WANT to accommodate you, the soldier. Make an appointment w/ your platoon/section leadership and ask for support for you pushing it further up the chain. Use the phrase, "I'm willing to do an AT, as required by my membership in the Guard, but I cannot go during that time frame. Is it possible to to arrange an alternate AT?" And repeat it and repeat it and repeat it, occasionally throwing in, "Did I mention the AT period is only X weeks before the end of the semester and I'm graduating in December?"

Response by CW3 Richard Lawrence made Jun 10 at 2015 3:51 PM

CW3 Richard Lawrence — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:51:44 -0400

When you commit to serving in the National Guard or Reserve, that commitment come before all other obligations and commitments. It's wonderful that you are able to attend college and are close to graduating, but your military commitment come first.

If you have advised your command that your scheduled AT will interfere with you education, but your command determines that your participation at AT is still required, then suck it up and go to AT. It cold be worse, you could be deployed somewhere where people are actually trying to kill you.

You might have to take another semester of college, but sometimes there is a price to be paid my the individual service member for the (educational) benifits they receive as well as the commitment they have made to their country.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 4:18 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:18:53 -0400

The more options you bring to the table, and the sooner you do it, the more likely something workable is going to happen.

1) Let your command know the complete details of the requirement of your college to graduate on time.
2) Get with your professors and advise them of your military commitment and see if they will work with you. (My professors gave me the assignments and readings early, so I could keep up.)
3) See if there are alternative ATs available. For example, going to a military school (perhaps BNCOC) would be something that would benefit both you and the unit.

There were two kinds of people in your situation who showed up at my desk. Type 1 dropped the entire problem in my lap and expected me to fix it. Type 2 had some alternatives prepared and were clearly willing to see that the unit got something out of the deal as well. Is it obvious which one I was willing to go to bat for?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 4:39 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:39:57 -0400

I commanded a reserve unit and we often faced this problem. We would help Marines find an alternate AT, with a different unit in the Summer. We did have obligations longer than a 4 driller in the school months. In the end, we worked with the Marines to find solutions.

Response by LCDR Bruce Cooley made Jun 10 at 2015 5:11 PM

LCDR Bruce Cooley — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 17:11:27 -0400

That was how I did it way back in the late '80's and in the mid '90's working on my graduate degree. My unit CO would have several exercises that the unit was committed to, and let me pick the one that fit my educational schedule. When it didn't, the professors usually helped me out. I would "Hope" that it is a similar situation now.....

Response by SGT Michael Sutherland made Jun 10 at 2015 6:56 PM

SGT Michael Sutherland — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:56:32 -0400

I have known plenty of soldiers who were able to get home station AT due to a conflict in their college courses. First and foremost your chain of command for permission. Make sure to put it in writing what the conflict is and how it would be detrimental to your education goals. Another thing to look into is see if the instructors for your classes have a program setup for this type of scenario. Nine times out of ten they do and will set it up for you to be able to do the work after you get back with delayed timelines for turning in any work needed.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Jun 10 at 2015 7:09 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 19:09:06 -0400

When I served in the National Guard, students were almost automatically exempt from AT that occurred during the school year. They had to be given notice, but it was usually no problem. For the most part, our unit would send college students to various MOS or leadership schools as an alternate AT, especially if were an extended time of say 4 or more weeks which helped the student-soldier by more or less giving them a summer job that pays more than most summer jobs. One kid went with me to Ft. Brag one summer and we stayed for 2 months going to a MOS school.

I hope you are in a student friendly unit. My unit figured if they worked with those young kids that they would be more likely to re-up and make a career out of it. Many of them put in for OCS later on.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 10:29 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 22:29:25 -0400

Your commitment to the guard is part time. You can do a year round AT for the next FY. There is always taking time off and doing a year in the ING. There are lots of options just because your command team decided to conduct its AT in November doesn't mean you need to Change your plans or life to meet the units needs. It's nice if you can and it always best to have max participation at AT's for training sake. Work with your chain of command now and make them awhere of your schedule.

Response by CPT Robert Graham made Jun 11 at 2015 7:35 AM

CPT Robert Graham — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:35:29 -0400

The first thing tht

Response by MAJ Chris Silva made Jun 11 at 2015 9:39 AM

MAJ Chris Silva — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 09:39:50 -0400

I've been instructing various graduate and undergradaute courses at several universities while serving 26 years in the California Army National Guard. I've had several students approach me with situations such as yours and was always glad to work with them to make alternate arrangements for assignments and exams. Approach your instructor, counselor or dean and explain the situation, you would be surprised at the number of veterans now in the field of higher education.

CC Silva
MAJ, CAARNG (Ret)
UCLA

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 1:18 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:18:39 -0400

You already got a lot of good advice about requesting an alternative AT or working with your professors to try to make up classes. But assuming that the unit cannot (or will not) be flexible, and that your professors are also unwilling to excuse your absences over such a long period of time, it's ultimately going to be your decision to make.

As a First Sergeant I only ran into a few situations in which there was a true unavoidable conflict between what my unit absolutely 100% required of a Soldier, and what the Soldier's other obligations required of him or her. One advice I gave in those cases: you're a grown person, and you're going to make the decision that best suits your needs. I won't take it personally if you opt against performing your military duties, so don't you take it personally if as a result of that decision I mark you as Unexcused, conduct an event-based counseling, and document the absence as the preliminary step for an eventual separation proceeding. Just as you "needed" to be somewhere else doing something else, these are the things I need to do as a unit leader. But again: I'm not taking it personally, so I'm not going to be out to "get you" or anything like that. If this absence is the only blip in an otherwise solid performance, the steps I take will not result in separation or any irrecoverable harm to your career trajectory. But if it's part of an ongoing pattern, it's what I need to do right by the Army should your overall performance warrant separation.

Best of luck, I hope your unit or your school can accommodate you.

Response by SGT Richard Ellis made Jun 11 at 2015 4:11 PM

SGT Richard Ellis — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:11:48 -0400

In my unit, College was one of the things that would get you excused from an AT during the "college year". We would put the member on the Unit Recruiting team to do recruiting over the summer for their 2 weeks.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 12:19 PM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Jun 2015 12:19:31 -0400

Contrary to the slogan, you are not an "Army of One". Seriously, If you cannot be excused because you are so valuable, I want you in my unit. A little understanding and compromise by your command goes a long way toward recruiting and retention. I would not have been able to complete my education on time if had not been for a couple excusals/ alternate schedules from AT. I appreciated that my leadership was able to accommodate my needs. Now, I spend everyday thanking them by taking care of my airmen. Run this up your chain of command.