Voluntary national guard service beyond normal drills/annual training

2014-02-06T21:21:16-05:00

I have found that to really advance yourself in the guard, you have to do extra credit. Personally, I don't mind this. I enjoy being a part of the HING CERF-P team and volunteering for duty beyond drill/annual training. As a cook, we secure rations for the weekend drill, the day prior. I also volunteer for this as my employer graciously lets me take the day off before drill. Like I said,  my employer and I don't mind these things. There are some employers who will get mad about volunteering, but most of the stories I've heard, the employer backs off when orders are shown. However, for picking up rations the day prior, I don't receive orders, while I do get paid by the guard. A friend of mine also tried to participate in a ration pickup recently and was told that they would not be allowed to get off work by their employer as orders were not issued. I personally believe that they should issue orders to the soldier for that situation and the employer should have to let the soldier go, volunteer or not. Any other opinions or information about these types of situations out there?<br>

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2014 9:41 PM

2014-02-06T21:41:54-05:00

SPC Wedge,

This is a problem that the National Guard Soldiers and employers have is the "one weekend a month and two weekends a year " mentality. I only have 2 MUTA 4's in a year. The rest are MUTA 5's or 6's, so I miss work on fridays. In my own experience, it takes a lot of your own personal time during the week to prepare classes, go to NCOES or Army schools, correspondence courses, and maintain physical fitness. Sadly with the way orders work, picking up rations a day early for drill, will not happen. If your state can afford it or has the funding for a soldier on ADOS, if not the AGR staff should be doing all the prep for drill weekends.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2014 10:28 PM

2014-02-06T22:28:43-05:00

I am often accused of being negative, so read with caution! I believe it is my job to be objective (who is John Galt?) My personal belief is that yes men (not to be confused with following orders) are the problem.

Yes, the NG needs people like yourself to go the extra mile. And you will be rewarded under the right command. However; I see an alarming trend that extends to all Reserve Component soldiers. Nearly all NG/RES Soldiers are required to do MANY extra hours with no pay, and do 2-3 months of required schools AND still attend AT. At first glance this will benefit the unit and the common cause of unit readiness.

I have personally seen the negative effect. On my deployment in OIF 2/3 we had Welders, Construction Contactors, Electricians, Engineers, and many other skilled civilian workers. What we lacked in "Soldier Skills" we made up for in technical and general know how.

With the current OPTEMPO in the NG; anyone with a decent civilian job CANNOT stay in the NG. Yes, there are laws; but if a worker needs 3 days a month and 3-4 months a year off they are of no use to a business.

As a result; we are losing these skilled workers and they are being replaced with good people, but with no civilian skills to add to the mix. I believe this takes away the real value of the NG.

If you can balance the two; you are destined for greatness! Good Luck!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2014 5:35 PM

2014-03-17T17:35:03-04:00

By Law and you can check this with your ESGR..a verbal order is legal enough. However, besides the official IDT schedule, which your employer should have a copy of... my unit will give Soldiers an official memo with report date and time with the RNCOs contact info if the employer is looking for something officia for anything other than those IDT dates.l We call it an Employer'e Memo. This should quell most issues.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2014 3:42 PM

2014-03-18T15:42:48-04:00

One issue with the reserves is that it's not always the best people who get
promoted, it's the people who can take time off from their real jobs (the job
that pays their bills and feeds their family).

I remember when I was in the Guard we had E7s who couldn't hold down jobs so they had tons of
time for NCOES
and E4s who had $100k jobs.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2014 9:45 PM

2014-07-28T21:45:26-04:00

In an Officer Candidate Prep course, we absolutely performed without additional pay. No orders. No pay. I considered it, uh, "sweat equity". And the training I received was priceless.
Sometimes, you have to just have to consider where your priorities are: money or experience. Good job on volunteering!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 29 at 2014 6:04 AM

2014-07-29T06:04:37-04:00

"For the flag" is an actual pay status. We were expected to participate in staff calls and planning meetings off-hours as needed. Occasionally there were ADSW funds to cover us. There was only so much you could do in on a drill weekend. I never complained and I was fortunate enough to have supporting employers who were understanding about my additional ATs and MUTA 5s.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jul 29 at 2014 8:42 AM

2014-07-29T08:42:53-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member Without raining on the parade....No, civilian employers should not be "required" to let you off work to go work for the military. It is awesome that yours does. You should stand on your head and thank them every time you can. You should also do extra for them as a way of returning the favor. You will find out how difficult two careers truly are in a few years....

Your employer is required to allow you off for Drill weekends. You are also allowed approximately 15 days of Military Leave per year. If your work schedule covers weekends and you want to remain in pay status, you are given the choice of using your Military Leave or your own personal leave. Many of my guys have to use up most of their Military Leave just to attend Drill Weekends. Staying in the Guard/Reserves is tough. Again..thank your employer for being so supportive.

Now, if your unit has the ability to issue orders (each unit is different in how they utilize the # of days they are allotted) that is awesome. Keep in mind that the unit has to manage the days to accomplish the overall mission requirements.

You will find that you end up doing more and more for the Guard/Reserves the longer you stay in and the more responsibility you start to have within the unit (and that time/effort is for God and Country) ON YOUR OWN TIME and ON YOUR OWN DIME. Just the way it is.

Best of luck. And again, I would go and let that boss know how much he/she is appreciated by you (and show it in your performance) because that is rare.

Response by SPC Richard White made Jul 31 at 2014 5:22 AM

2014-07-31T05:22:40-04:00

I did extra duty and I was awarded for it.I did things such as being a track driver for ARTBASS in another state and I would run vehicles to other armorys.People who do extra duty are needed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2014 4:02 AM

2014-08-21T04:02:19-04:00

Im in the National Guard and can shed a lil light on this. There is definitely a way around this that he can do this with or with out pay if he so chooses to do it before deployment I worked ADOS for a year and after I worked as a Fed Tech which is also a really good way to get your name out there beyond immediate COC and it helps alot if you are considering going AGR also because when I applied for the supply job at my unit when it was open I had a letter of recommendation from my BC with out asking for it. He made a special trip to me in order to present it to me. I didnt get the job due to the AGR preference but it was a great honor non the less. But he can always ask about code money first half the fiscal year is best for that and get a memo from the unit stating that he is expected to report in and it doesnt have to be detailed in order to keep the employer from trying to fight it. The date or report in need to be scheduled well enough in advance so as to let the employer know and present the memo to him. Written notice should be give to employer so he doesnt accidentally forget based upon how the work schedule is made and enough time for the employer to be able to schedule someone else in the employees place. That can be also done with out code pay and if the unit is willing to fudge a few facts they could even write a memo saying he is reporting in to make up time that he owes or missed some mandatory training while being tasked out on something else and needs to make it up or whatever they can come up with. Orders do not have to be issued for a soldier to miss work I dont think and a memo should be suffice enough. The most important thing is letting the employer know about this well enough in advance and there shouldnt be anything they can do about it and even tell him that it will make him feel better he can contact the unit if he has any questions about it and on the day if he wants to make sure you are actually there. Theres probably other ways to go about it it just all depends on how far the unit and the Soldier is willing to go in order to make it happen and how much they are willing to lie if it comes down to having to lie.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2014 10:18 PM

2014-12-12T22:18:36-05:00

Many states aren't doing things like this anymore, due to budget cuts. However, any "volunteering" you do, you should always recieve orders for. Even if you are not getting paid for the service you are providing outside of a normal drill (not sure how you come in with orders and no pay though)
Many states are even cutting school and AT funding as well. I know in AR if you go to a school, such as WLC or Air Assault, you are not allowed to go to AT. We are on a strict, schedule of only 14 days of active training per fiscal year.

Response by SSG David Verdoorn made May 14 at 2019 1:20 AM

2019-05-14T01:20:10-04:00

you can get an employee letter saying that you are conducting military training.

Response by SSG David Verdoorn made May 14 at 2019 1:20 AM

2019-05-14T01:20:37-04:00

you can get an employer letter stating that you are conducting military operations for that day..

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Aug 23 at 2019 5:01 PM

2019-08-23T17:01:12-04:00

You do not needs orders. By the way the entire military is a voluyforce so your employer cannot deny you time off. But the law does stipulate handy paid military days you can receive from your employer. In Texas it is 14 days paid and the rest can be covered by sick days or just leave without pay.

Response by SGT John Ball made Mar 5 at 2022 2:04 PM

2022-03-05T14:04:19-05:00

I have seen some Guardsmen who were considered shit bags because they put their civilian jobs first and just didn't have the time to do extra outside of drill.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 5 at 2022 2:35 PM

2022-03-05T14:35:53-05:00

Full time S1 and S4 were notorious for always being out and forcing drilling members to do jobs the full timers were being paid to do in the first place