Wait time after submitting an award, (DA Form 638)

2015-03-27T17:42:52-04:00

What is the ideal turn around time for an award after it has it has been submitted. Some awards, such as the Army Achievement Medal, are only a Battalion Commanders Approval. Shouldn't that be a quick turn around? What about a higher award?

What do you do if you haven't got a response and it is appears to be lost in the system rather than the approval authority denying? In that case has anyone been denied an award and had the form returned saying such? I haven't found any regulation yet specifying a time frame or approval yet. It may be out there but I didn't see it in good ol' AR 600-8-22.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 27 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-03-27T18:05:17-04:00

As an "administrative" matter, it falls under normal administrative timelines. Generally speaking, anything that takes the CO's signature assume "up to" 30 days. If it has to go the chain to the next level, add another 30 days up, and then 15 days back down.

So for an AAM 30 days would be reasonable for Approve/Deny status before following up. For an ARCOM, you would be looking at 75 days. On the Marine Corps side, since we have to go one level higher for the equivalent award (Regt/MEU for NAM, and 1 star for NMCC) it would be 75 days and 90+.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 27 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-03-27T20:57:13-04:00

1LT Eric Rosa, Be circumspect and use back channels to snoop around, sometimes snooping can remind a ?clerk of the paper on the bottom of the stack. Then, politicking might get it raised to the top of the 'pile'.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 4:31 AM

2015-03-28T04:31:01-04:00

It is usually a unit commanders policy and most of them, at least on active duty are close to the following..

AAM - Submitted for approval authority 30 days prior to presentation date.

ARCOM - Submitted for approval authority 60 days prior to presentation date.

MSM - Submitted for approval authority 90 days prior to presentation date.

You always have the back and forth "corrections" that need to be made at each level even though AR 600-8-22 states that the DA 638 should be "generally error free". Everyone is a frickin English major these days.

AAMs were simple, I usually hand walked them into the boss for signature and then right to the S-1 for distro back down to the companies. No excuse for a "late" AAM or, any award for that matter. Award status should be briefed at the Command and Staff every other week, if the process is broken the CSM should be whoopin the S-1/1SGs asses.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 5:20 AM

2015-03-28T05:20:22-04:00

As a BN XO now, all awards run through me. I insist upon a 72 hour turn around from the S1 shop and command team for corrections, as well as with the Batteries when the corrections are sent down.
With respect to signatures, it is your BN CDRs perspective of when he signs but in my opinion the BN XO is failing if he allows his boss to sit on awards for more than 72 hours.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 6:08 AM

2015-03-28T06:08:15-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member , how does it go, "Do unto others..."

First off, nothing should sit in a commander's box unless there is a reason for reflection, research or more information. As LTC Private RallyPoint Member said, the XO needs to ensure the paper keeps moving.

Secondly, leaders really miss the point of the administrative awards (in contrast to awards for valor et al, which need a deliberate process for what I hope are obvious reasons). Submitting someone for an award on a DA 638 is less about the four achievements; it is about the soldier's service or a particular achievement that can be adjudicated in a conversation or a phone call in three minutes or less; e.g. "Hey sir, I want to submit 1LT Rosa for an AAM because he kicked butt during annual training." As a commander, the answer is either "ok" or "nope", possibly, "let's talk about it" but the first two are probably the norm.

For service awards, it has to do with overall performance and level of responsibility. A CSM and a commander in any command can tell you right now who are the exceptions -- the PSGs or SSGs who we want to push for an MSM or the ones we want to give less than the norm -- i.e. the Lieutenant that only rates an AAM.

So what takes so long? Procrastination. Inefficiency. Lack of respect. One thing I detested in the military was the "staffing", whereby people who had no real interest in a matter kept an action for weeks to sign off on that action. The common one is to hear that the S1 shop has to review the DA 638 for errors, because if their are errors on the form, it would like bad in their files. While I have never known a typo on an award form to cost an NCO a promotion to Master Sergeant, I do know that the total document is less than about 1000 words -- does it take weeks for multiple soldiers, NCOs and officers to review a two-page document for typos, especially with spell-check?

When you command, treat every award as if it was for you, meaning if you knew your boss sat on an award for a period of time out of apathy or laziness, how would that make you feel. Commanders and their senior NCO counterparts are responsible for ensuring the efficiency of the processes. In my experience, the Army does not do a good job in this regard.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 28 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-03-28T08:39:31-04:00

Awards approved at battalion commander level authority should take 1 week for turnaround on average. 2 weeks max if the unit is really busy with training etc.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Mar 28 at 2015 5:16 PM

2015-03-28T17:16:19-04:00

I've seen AAMs and JSAMs be processed and ready for presentation between 3 to 4 weeks. What the two organizations had in common were two things. (1) Commanders and Key Leaders cared and they showed it. (2) Almost no red tape, just the normal Business Value Added activities (processing, tracking, preparation...).

Unfortunately I witnessed an organization that held Awards Boards once a month. The staff were the ones making determination and recommendations for the commander. It added 30 to 45 extra days to any award. MSMs can take from 4 to 5 months. Regardless of the rational, it is a moral crusher when recognitions take too long. I get it that it is the commander's award program, but this one missed the mark in my view.

When an award recommendation is not going in a positive direction its time to talk with folks that have control over the situation or influence over it. Also an advocate (person of influence) can help sell the award to the decision maker.

Sometimes we are on our own. War story, I PCSed from Savannah Ga to the Advanced Course after less than a year in the unit. Previously I was deployed in the Balkans for a year. I knew my PCS award would be an AAM (short time in the unit + a cool NTC rotation). I was fine with it. I was at Fort Lee for several weeks when I called the unit S1 to check on the award. Had I not called I would have never received it. Its not the first time this has happened.

Don't be afraid to ask for help or make the call.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Mar 28 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-03-28T17:32:47-04:00

In my previous unit (BDE staff) it was a few weeks for AAM/ARCOM. Could be faster if you needed it though.

Now, I submit AAM's to the BN CDR. He signs, I forward to S1, they cut the certificate within a week. I do remeber being in a company and what a PITA it was at times. I feel it's a direct reflection of the leadership and their priorities.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 1:10 AM

2015-03-29T01:10:44-04:00

I would agree with the others in the frame stated, but the challenge is usually getting it approved and sent up from the unit level. It seems like a never ending correction process when I submit an award of correcting something that the previous person said was wrong and then the next approving authority says the complete opposite.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 1:36 AM

2015-03-29T01:36:44-04:00

In the few battalion I have worked on staff this is the standard of how far they need to be submitted before the proposed presentation date:
AAM- 30 days
ARCOM- 60 days
MSM/BSM- between 120-180
This times are quite large but you have to realize each of the staffs they are going to such as an MSM/BSM going to a Division Level Command for approval. Hope this helps.

Response by SPC(P) Mark Newman made May 24 at 2015 9:18 AM

2015-05-24T09:18:31-04:00

Hi Lt. Rosa, I was getting awards in the mail AFTER I'd hung up my uniform and was a civilian lol! Both the Overseas Service Ribbon and the Army Commendation Medal came out n the mail to my mom and dad's house. I would have preferred to get them sooner so i could actually WEAR them but it still felt good to be recognized.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-05-24T10:11:43-04:00

My personal rule is no admin actions stay in my inbox for more than 24 hours (presuming I'm in the office and not TDY). My admin section briefs me every Friday confirming there are no actions pending my close out recommendations or approval as a backstop. I've had 2 actions exceed this, both were deliberately done to verify accuracy of the action prior to signature.

Best way to gauge an organization, do NCOs depart with their award and evaluation on hand?

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Sep 8 at 2015 10:39 PM

2015-09-08T22:39:37-04:00

There were two CW4’s in my unit, each with 35+ years in service, who retired approx 2 years ago. Both were submitted for LOM’s in a timely manner when they retired. The DA 638’s are still sitting in “someone’s” inbox at the approving level. I called a CW5 buddy of mine who looked into it, apparently a couple “someone’s” forgot about them. 2 years is unacceptable and a slap in the face to anyone.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 3:58 AM

2015-09-09T03:58:05-04:00

Ideal time? one week for an impact AAM, 30 days for an AAM, 60 days for an ARCOM, 180 days or more for anything higher. That said, I knew an NCO who resubmitted an ARCOM six years after the fact when he found out the award he submitted for a soldier was lost after he had PCSd. He had the original DA 638 saved on a 3.5 inch floppy disk and the current brigade commander signed off on the award citing a "grave injustice" was done to the soldier who well deserved the award. Last I saw of that commander he was wearing a few stars.

I also know another guy who had an ARCOM downgraded by the battalion commander to an AAM and had the S-1 issue the award. At the same time the award was still sent to brigade and was upgraded back to an ARCOM by the brigade commander. Currently the soldier can't correct his OMPF for having two awards for the same reason because they were awarded separately with separate award numbers.
Also, if you have an award downgraded, the original DA Form 638 should be posted to your OMPF, I forgot which section...maybe admin?...I would imagine the same goes for an award that was denied with no award issued.