We need to stop posting legal issues to RallyPoint. How do we achieve this?

SGT Tony Clifford — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:21:57 -0400

At least once a week, a young soldier posts a question about an Article 15, or pending UCMJ actions. These posts usually only hurt the young troops foolish enough to post them. Is there any way we as a community can educate these troops to keep them from posting their legal troubles on a public platform?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 12:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:35:21 -0400

Perhaps what some people could do who have legal questions is just post "I have a legal question - is there anyone who has legal experience or who is JAG who can help me. I will pm you the details."

I agree sometimes people help guide those servicemembers but they need to be aware to be careful and educate themselves on UCMJ and local civilian laws to not get themselves in trouble.

Response by LTC David Brown made Aug 22 at 2018 12:59 PM

LTC David Brown — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:59:24 -0400

Not being a lawyer or a computer person would ,when posting under legal , could the individual be linked to a window that would instruct the individual about a post. Use general terms. Do not admit guilt, do not directly reference a specific case. Example Do not post, “I failed to return from leave for 5 days after my leave ended, First Sargent Smith says he is sending me to the stockade for 10 years can he do this?” Post If an individual is late returning from leave by several days what is the maximum sentence that can be brought?” Then a box would either allow posting as written or editing by individual before posting.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Aug 22 at 2018 12:59 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:59:46 -0400

Mostly the response is, talk to your lawyer and ignore what the barracks rats say which is perfectly fine. I, for one would not want to tell them no.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 1:20 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:20:34 -0400

Most of the questions on here (legal or otherwise) stem from a lack of leadership and/or communication from first line supervisors and NCO Chain of Support. After that is the lack of knowledge by some of those leaders. I'm not saying every NCO has to be a part-time lawyer, but know enough to give their subordinates good advice on how to proceed through The System. For example, knowing his/her rights, when to seek SJA/JAG and/or IG assistance, etc.

I know the information is out there, because a lot of it is contained in the Army Studyguide that everyone seems to study from for promotion boards. The other sources are the regulations (ARs) themselves. Many leaders have this stigma against knowing the regs and enforcing them. It's not hard to find the information; it's out there and available.

If your subordinates are coming to an Internet board for advice that every leader should know, then you have failed your subordinate, yourself as a leader, and the Army. No, I'm not being snarky, but brutally honest. If this hurts your feelings, then perhaps the Military isn't for you. Leadership of young adults is NOT something to take lightly, especially if/when we ever get into another shooting war. Even in peacetime, leaders mold subordinates, and ultimately have a huge impact on who they become as Servicemembers, and people in general, as well as their outlook on leaders and leadership.

Lead or go home.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Aug 22 at 2018 1:36 PM

SFC Harry H. — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 13:36:45 -0400

Just know anyone who contacts you or engages with you about an alleged crime or the knowledge of a crime, you can be subject to that party or for questioning in court. And if admitting guilt on a Social Medial site, that will stand up in court and can be used against the accused in court.

Unless it is a how to file, or any other quick admin question, traffic ticket or something minor, I would seek an Attorney before taking anyone's advice. And there is people on these sites that have sworn to up hold the law and have that duty to report crimes.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Aug 22 at 2018 2:12 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:12:27 -0400

Unless it is a full court martial that is in progress...........it's fine. So I agree with the Mods here. Anything less than a full court martial and the punishment is fairly trivial to say the least. Also, the Soldiers asking for advice are not stupid, most will seek advice from several areas instead of just RP.

Though I will extend this a little further. What I find real damaging but somewhat entertaining from my third party observer status is when an NCO posts a question about counseling statements on the Internet and just about says the individuals name along with all the items they want to counsel the Soldier on. While that does not happen on RP........happens elsewhere on the internet and someone from the Army should reign in that practice. Counseling statements should be private.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Aug 22 at 2018 2:20 PM

LT Brad McInnis — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:20:43 -0400

We don't. The majority of the answers are talk to your COC or JAGS.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 22 at 2018 2:23 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:23:06 -0400

About 90% of the topics on RP are best answered by:
Google it.
Ask the Recruiter.
Read the Reg.
Ask the S-1
Ask the JAG
That said, people feel a bit more comfortable with the human touch and you never know what expertise is out there. I'd bet with the membership demographics, there'd be better experts than what you'd find locally. Hands down more leaders willing to take the time to work with juniors without the SM being fearful of getting sideways with the CoC. My only encouragement is to do some up front research yourself and pose more focused questions like "The Reg says this but....". There is a difference between making an effort and just being lazy. You can frequently tell the difference.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Aug 22 at 2018 3:00 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:00:57 -0400

I agree, SGT Tony Clifford. It's become epidemic as far as I'm concerned. I know that RP is supposed to be a place to seek assistance, but the information on many of these requests is so personally revealing that I think the SM may place himself in an even more difficult spot. Frankly, I would never give out the information that I've seen from some of these service members.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 22 at 2018 4:38 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:38:07 -0400

For some of the issues posted, they're not so bad. When someone posts a question that has either farther reaching or serious implications, the poster should be checked before the post and RP itself gets out of hand.

Beyond the chapters and Art15's(company), they should be checked the second they hit the site and removed or reworded. Certain tags should make it an instant Admin review not just to protect the troop, but the site itself. I know it becomes a 1A issue, but unless someone is JAG currently, you should not be here talking about anything that could cause a case to either be opened up, or jeopardize RP since this site can be used in a courtroom. We all want to help, and sometimes actually helping the troop is doing what goes against what we are, telling them to get off the site and Admins talking to the troop, explaining why the post was taken down, what measures they have to do to protect the troop AND the site.

If a SM is looking at doing time, an OTH style discharge for something, the "I'm asking for a friend" type post who fits the first two items listed OR an officer looking at being Dropped From The Rolls, this is NOT the place for you. Do not ask a damn thing here and take the chance of some SM meaning well, is currently serving, answers your question just so you can name drop SFC (for EX) said "do this that and the other". You just screwed over someone for no good reason, and I don't care what anyone says, but that is blatant Blue Falconing (I'm being polite here).

To the SM's who think it's a "swell" idea to post about your issue and then post those "snappy" and "funny" comebacks to those who dig in your ass, don't think the military is a big place where you cannot be found. AKO (or branch equivalent) make that reach a LOT closer than you may think, and even if it has "R", "V", or a greyed out area, DOES NOT mean your ass cannot be tagged. That SGM/CSM/SgtMaj/Master Chief or any senior officer knows people. That is bad enough a retiree can make life suck ass, AD will make your life hell on earth. I know of three SGM/CSM's right off the top of my head here who are retired, and in all three cases, have shown they know how to "get in touch" with their peers who are still serving. Make sure your responses to them are tactful and respectful to them. That "retired asshat" could be the one saving your career through an email, a phone call, or over a beer with your 1SG (or branch equivalent).

If you cannot post porn, sexually graphic items, or items that straight up violate DOD regs (legal or UCMJ specific) , you should not be allowed to post questions (in the legal sense) that also violate DOD or branch specific regs). Serving or not.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2018 6:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 18:17:15 -0400

I personally try to give the best advice and guidance based on personal experience and 1st hand knowledge of friends/co-workers receiving UCMJ/Article 15s. However, I always end with the caveat of telling the SM posting the question to seek legal advice. That being said, one main reason why I can think of that an SM is asking these questions is that they feel that their Chain will not help or they are afraid of their Chain. Either case is unacceptable. I will always help a Soldier if they come to me for advice and assistance. Granted, some of the SMs posting called the thunder down on themselves...but if it's a legit issue, I will offer any help I can, but still end on the note of they need to seek legal assistance.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Aug 22 at 2018 11:40 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 23:40:41 -0400

Sadly no. Problem is generational. people today would rather put their future at the hands of nameless, faceless, anonymous, and sometimes hapless strangers via social media than place an iota of trust into their support channel or chain of command. They somehow also think this place is private...this is not like googling other advice like "why does my piss burn?" Or how long does a turkey take to cook." from the comfort of your iPhone.

Also, there is this exceptionalism from an upbringing where rules did not apply to them or they were waived at the faintest sign of push back. They fail to understand that large, ponderous, and monolithic organizations (like the Armed Forces) manage decentrally, based on sets of rules that are geared for the lowest common denominator and enforced with lead-pipe cruelty so they don't get screwed up.

More troubling, many answers can be found in readily available official web sources and regulations. Most often because of my leading statement above, but they lack the rudimentary professional vocabulary right off the documentation they have been given to research on their own.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2018 2:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:59:26 -0400

Why do we need to stop?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2018 5:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:30:36 -0400

RP is a forum for info to those whose seek it. Anyone who decides to post a comment or question should keep in mind that they are speaking with folks that are in the military and need to remember that customs and courtesies should be at the forefront, which I think most members do. But if someone posts a question, regardless of the subject matter, it is up to us as leaders to provide the best leadership possible. As always, we can refer someone to legal/JAG/CDC, etc. But if a question is posed here on RP, they may not feel as tho they can speak with those entities, or may not know the best course of action. We should not restrict these types of questions on RP. We don't know until we ask.

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made Aug 23 at 2018 9:33 AM

1SG Timothy Trewin — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:33:09 -0400

I think that is a bad idea to have them stop. To me this is exactly the forum with which to ask questions like that. There is a wealth of information from leaders from all branches and ranks and experience levels. This is far preferable to asking fellow Soldiers in the barracks who most likely don't know the answer. The Soldier isn't coming on here to hope some senior leader can save them, just to get advice that might help them which is a way leaders can help even if they are not directly involved in the situation.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2018 3:31 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:31:05 -0400

I am not sure how, other than pointing out when they post things that can be used against them, to remove the post and discontinue on social media. I think its going to be one those things unfortunately many re going to learn the hard way. When those posts pop up, they should be advised to see the defense council or a civilian attorney for legal advice, not the public.

Response by SGT Mark Friedman made Aug 23 at 2018 8:32 PM

SGT Mark Friedman — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:32:04 -0400

I agree.. this is what RP is here for...and most of us tell them to go talk to their attorney, don't listen to the barracks rat legal beagles...

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 7 at 2019 8:15 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 20:15:01 -0400

Many do educate them
Every time they post such things
And if other do those due diligence those we respond to will
Serve as a lesson in why the next troop
Should not make the same mistake.

But like DUI
Just because the warnings the info the reasons are out there, spoken, written, posted and yes yelled at times
Servicembwrs still
Drink and drive

The SM has to want to take an active role in not making mistakes