Wearing Unauthorized Patches/Flags while deployed?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:24:16 -0400

On deployments you may see some uniform variations that would not be seen while stateside. One of them is the wearing of patches. Do you or have you seen this while you were deployed. If you were working with another nation's military would you wear their flag on your uniform as a sign of partnership? Can this get carried away or is it a means to show some motivational patch? Should be strictly adhere to our regulation even while deployed?

Response by SGT Richard H. made Mar 27 at 2015 6:29 PM

SGT Richard H. — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:29:34 -0400

I went hard-line. US soldiers wear US flags. Period.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 6:30 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:30:11 -0400

I've seen it, but I would never do it. If I wanted a patch, I just kept it for my personal collection and kept my work uniform to how it's supposed to be.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 27 at 2015 6:33 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:33:26 -0400

This is one of the reasons Marines don't have Velcro on their uniforms. You have no easy way of affixing other patches (not that we wear any but our name strips and those are sewn on). It is easy to decline sticking some other country's flag or path.

Response by SSG Jason Neumann made Mar 27 at 2015 7:30 PM

SSG Jason Neumann — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 19:30:22 -0400

We should be able to only wear our US Flag. Why should we wear another countries flag? Is it really to show we are helping that country or to give that country "we are here to help"? Obviously we are there, since they aren't able to handle the situation.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 27 at 2015 8:57 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 20:57:54 -0400

Marines don't even wear our own Flag (most times), why would we wear someone else's Flag?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 9:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 21:03:34 -0400

The psychological effects in building long lasting partnerships can sometimes for the sake of coalition building supersede regulation. An unwritten rule I'm sure but the benefits purely outweigh a simple violation.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 27 at 2015 11:39 PM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 23:39:54 -0400

I understand, but the standard. One time (many times) in Iraq, I saw US Soldiers that were wearing tabs and pathes they thought were funny.... Secret Squirrel patch on the rights sleeve... a CPT (yes a captain) wearing a tab over his patch that said "shitbag," and the list is long. Yes, if I saw it. I corrected it fast.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 12:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 00:26:28 -0400

Wearing another country's flag seems strange to me. We're no more Afghani than they area American. I have seen plenty of motivation or comedic tabs and patches over the years. Most of the time they're worn under the collar or pocket flap. For some reason Cav Scouts in particular have a thing for "recon" tabs. As long as it's not visible on the uniform I don't care what a troop has under his pocket flap.

With that being said, I've also seen all sorts of jackassery that went way too far. Nametapes like "Bubba" and "Borat" and other ridiculous "sew shop" specials. I saw a CPT who had miniatures of his 5 authorized SSI-FWTS patches made and wore them all simultaneously. Standards shouldn't change just because we're deployed. Double standards have yet to work out in our favor.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 4:51 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 04:51:08 -0400

Army regulations do not disappear when you deploy. Most commanders at the Corps or higher level publish a uniform standard for the deployed force. MND-B had one in Iraq and ISAF had one in Afghanistan replaced with USFOR-A's.

Powerpoint Ranger, Fun Meters, Secret Squirrel, and the host nation flag are big no go's.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 28 at 2015 5:29 AM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 05:29:39 -0400

C'mon All Americans, we all see you looking pretty carrying your clip board, you don't have to try so hard to blend in - you do not look like an Afghan and your not going to be staying long - we can all see the MRAP and the Afghan Police green Ford Ranger in the background!

Wearing the Afghanistan patch might make that Soldier feel like he is more into the culture or feel closer to the people there however, for Afghans at the Local (village) level, the loyalty is all about family and tribe not national loyalty so helping a village elder or improving an infrastructure system is much better for building a relationships than wearing a patch that cost a buck eighty-five!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 6:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:03:52 -0400

I never wore patches on my ACU's other than the one's I was authorized. Now I did wear an M-18 Claymore 'Front Toward Enemy' patch on my IBA. And I discarded the back plate as I never planned on getting shot running away.

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Mar 28 at 2015 6:38 AM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 06:38:00 -0400

"I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

I don't see anywhere in that that says that I serve in the military of another nation. Just sayin...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2015 7:12 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:12:05 -0400

It depends on the mission, the type or purpose of the patches, and the operational environment. During my last three deployments working with the Afghan Commandos (CDO), we wore BDUs instead of ACUs or Multicams because the BDU is the CDO uniform. We always wore the US flag on one shoulder and the Afghan flag with a CDO tab and patch on the other. Those additional patches served as a sign of solidarity. When I stood up 2nd CDO Kandak in 2007, their leadership had a ceremony to present us with the patches. Not wearing them would have been a huge rapport killer. From day one, the CDOs have expected US teams to wear CDO tabs and patches, and doing so reinforces the partnership. That being said, we understood our operational environment. During normal training and operations we wore nothing but the patches and flags mentioned above. When traveling to or through FOBs with our partnered force we added a name tape, US Army, and our rank. If we were conducting administrative type functions without our partnered force, such as attending meetings with US leadership, drawing funds, etc., then we changed into a proper uniform and conformed to regulations. There is a time and a place for unauthorized patches that serve a specific function, especially when they are mission enhancers. Wearing "cool guy" patches for the sake of wearing them is another story. Also, remember that regulations can be waived. If the chain of command supports specific flags or patches then I see no issues with them being worn. If the chain of command does not support it, then Soldiers should not be wearing them.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Mar 28 at 2015 7:32 AM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 07:32:39 -0400

Our troops represent the US, wearing other countries patches on the uniform should be prohibited.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 28 at 2015 9:14 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 09:14:00 -0400

Context and execution are everything. There's no one answer to this. Done well, it can help with team building. Done poorly, the opposite can occur..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 12:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:19:21 -0400

A conventional mindset is not the right answer in most cases. Foreign unit patches can assist in foreign relations, the same reason why there is relaxed grooming standards in some theaters. If you are training or partnered in that capacity then I believe discretion should be up to the unit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 1:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:02:35 -0400

Sometimes the mission calls for it. Anyone with a HUMINT background (or who read through FM 2-22.3) would know there is an interrogation approach called False Flag in which you try to convince the detainee you are from a country other than the US. I believe it is ok if mission dictates.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2015 6:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:09:55 -0400

If
It's mission essential ...got
It...otherwise our country gets disrespected enough anyways, why cause more harm? No one has respect for anything nowadays...but is always demanding it

Response by SPC Adriel Martinez made Apr 15 at 2015 9:58 PM

SPC Adriel Martinez — Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:58:23 -0400

best patch in the 'Verse!

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Apr 16 at 2015 12:20 AM

SA Harold Hansmann — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 00:20:10 -0400

Personally, I don't see a problem if they wear the allies flag under the American flag on their shoulder. It would promote the alliance. I have to say no to wearing only the allies flag

Response by CAPT Mark Geronime made Apr 16 at 2015 2:16 AM

CAPT Mark Geronime — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 02:16:21 -0400

As a Seabee/CEC Officer in Kabul in 2006, everyone in the command (CSTC-A) wore a pin with the Afghan/US flags above our name tape...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 9:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 09:25:40 -0400

They don't wear our flag when they are working with us why would we even think about wearing there's. Some joe just trying to look cool. There is no place for that.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 11:53 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 11:53:15 -0400

When in working groups we sometimes swapped patches, but I would switch back once we parted ways. I've seen a lot of Korean, and Japanese military members either in the US uniform, or wearing US flags and patches, I don't have a problem with that, and I don't see a problem with US personnel showing some camaraderie.

I don't like the hooah patches. It was usually the Air Force, but they'd be wearing full color Star Wars patches, superheroes, sports teams, etc. I remember sitting in the dinning facility and seeing a Yoda patch, a bright pink patch, and sports patch on three different Air Force Service Members.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 1:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:51:37 -0400

Not only should service members NOT wear any other countries flag, but Any American living in the US shouldnt even wear, post, or fly another countries flag to begin with. I dont even support part of my family that choose to fly a Mexican flag in their house while living in America. . .

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Apr 16 at 2015 1:54 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 13:54:37 -0400

Only wear what you have orders for. I've been out a long time. Has there ever been an instance where American soldiers were told to flag under another country?

Response by 1SG Hector Rivera made Apr 16 at 2015 3:52 PM

1SG Hector Rivera — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:52:57 -0400

But if a Field CO allows, pretty sure higher commands know and approved.

Response by SSgt Christopher Neely made Apr 16 at 2015 3:58 PM

SSgt Christopher Neely — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:58:31 -0400

While in Saudi Arabia, we weren't allowed to wear our flag or display it on our own post...I was hasseled by our 1stSGT for having a flag mounted on our maintenance van...WTF!

Response by SGT Jeremy Skinner made Apr 16 at 2015 4:18 PM

SGT Jeremy Skinner — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:18:31 -0400

we should always have our us flag on all the time period. but in certain circumstances wearing that countries with ours is not an issue to me

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2015 4:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 16:57:34 -0400

I am new to this site. But does it really effect the way I fight, or the way my soldiers fight if they have a fun meter on there kit? Or a doorkicker patch on there mag pouch? There is a time and place for everything. So much that American and German soldiers sang Christmas carols across their lines in Bastogne. If it makes a soldier feel good, or feel "cool" then so be it. Take it off when you get back to the states. To me this is no different than someone in a TOC getting on the net and telling me to blouse my trousers, and roll my sleeves down because a raven saw me sweating on a patrol.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Apr 16 at 2015 8:11 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:11:51 -0400

Some thoughts on wearing of patches.
- Soldiers ought not to wear something overseas that they would not or could not wear in CONUS.
- There are many others ways of showing partnership with coalition partners other than wearing their flags or other patches on our uniform.
- The military is about standards and discipline. Individuality by doing your own thing regarding a US military uniform is not part of this.
- Military personnel need to realize that US citizens and citizens of other nations form their impressions of the US military one Soldier at a time.

Response by COL James Stevens Roach made Apr 16 at 2015 9:18 PM

COL James Stevens Roach — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:18:10 -0400

If you are working with soldiers from another nation, and language is different - wearing their flag might be an important coordination issue - to prevent 'friendly fire'. But if the US soldiers were going to wear that other country flag, I would expect those other soldiers to wear the US flag on their uniform. For the same prevent 'friendly fire' reason.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 16 at 2015 9:30 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Thu, 16 Apr 2015 21:30:58 -0400

If its not in regs, then it doesn't count. I'm usually not a stickler for regs, but not when it comes to flags, patches, ribbons or anything else. Stick to regs, because we're a professional military.

On a side note though I actually came up with a patch that said: SPQR on top of a wreathe, but that was just for fun and I didn't hawk it around.

Response by FN Jayme Blair made Apr 17 at 2015 12:01 AM

FN Jayme Blair — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 00:01:25 -0400

No. I would only the stars and stripes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 12:44 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 00:44:03 -0400

I feel that it wouldn't be a problem but i think we should just wear the flag of our nation. We are US soldiers not another nation. Represent

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2015 3:28 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:28:51 -0400

Wear the flag of the country you are representing.

Response by SFC Joseph James made Apr 17 at 2015 10:57 AM

SFC Joseph James — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:57:14 -0400

Call me old fashion but follow the regs. They exist a reason. It also helps to properly id you in a hurry.

Response by PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole made Apr 17 at 2015 4:34 PM

PO1 Cleve Ikaika Waiwaiole — Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:34:42 -0400

yeah i personally have been chewed out for wearing the "don't tread on me" patch. i don't see what the problem is wearing it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2015 9:51 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Apr 2015 21:51:00 -0400

I think it can be helpful in building the partnership. It shows solidarity in the partnership. It demonstrates that you aren't an "Occupying Force" and are more of a partner force there to help and mentor. However, it depends on the relationship as well. By that I mean, are you working closely with the Afghans, or are you a security force? Are you Civil Affairs or a trainer with NATO?

There are also many patches that aren't authorized that are also useful when deployed or outside the wire, such as blood type.

There needs to be a common sense approach to uniforms when deployed.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 7:40 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 07:40:55 -0400

We're operating in countries where people can't read the "unauthorized" patches anyway. If morale is helped by having some fun with "unauthorized" patches, then it's worth it. As someone who's primary job puts him in an aircrew position, I personally have a huge collection of "unauthorized" patches and wear them freely on the aircraft... as does everybody else.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2015 11:42 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 11:42:21 -0400

I think if the patch provides a tactical, operational, or strategic value and doesn't discredit the service or the nation, I don't see a problem with it. As an example with the picture you posted, the Afghan flag can serve to show one team and support to the area they are working in. It doesn't take away from the service member or the nation. Wearing the unit patch of a partnered unit also sends a message of support to the mission.

Where I see a problem is when Soldiers start putting unauthorized patches and tabs (powerpoint ranger, ect). These serve no value to the unit or the mission and therefore should not be allowed.

A double standard? Yes, but when we apply a little leadership and common sense, we should be able to make the right decision.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 19 at 2015 8:04 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 20:04:59 -0400

I remember the "Bronies". Saw a number of "My Little Pony" patches out there. That got to be a bit of a headache.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 20 at 2015 11:27 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 11:27:01 -0400

As long as your team and your nation is sitting on top of the other one, it should be fine. The patches should not contain derogatory statements or anything demeaning to another group though.

Response by PV2 John Gurney made Apr 20 at 2015 12:09 PM

PV2 John Gurney — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:09:38 -0400

Always represent your own flag no matter where you are unless you are special ops and need to blend.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 12:13 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:13:31 -0400

I think we should leave this up to the units at the front. They understand the situation they are in.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 8:28 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:28:52 -0400

The ones I saw the most were worn on their vest, but they were still unauthorized IAW AR 670-1

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Apr 20 at 2015 8:38 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:38:29 -0400

When in Rome... If it helps everyone to ID each other while not detracting from the mission, this sure beats "Hi, My Name Is... " tags. This sort of thing was always 1.) temporary, and 2.) mission-specific.

Response by SSgt Joe V. made Apr 21 at 2015 11:38 AM

SSgt Joe V. — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 11:38:22 -0400

In addition to the subdued flag on my ball-cap while deployed, these patches were also readily visible...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2015 2:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2015 14:02:01 -0400

Shohna ba Shohna. Some of y'all should know that phrase.

So, I can tell y'all when I was out in the COP, JSS, or on mission there was no telling what uniform I might be in. Sleeves rolled, patches on or off, whatever.
But, If I was in an engagement with foreign leadership I would clean up and look professional. If I was on a FOB, I would pull he proper uniform out of my "go" bag in the truck and look the part.

But it is just not deployment. We do this here in the rear too. USARAK wants Soldiers to wear an ARCITC tab for Soldier that have been to Cold weather school. I haven't found that one in 670-1.

I think the bottom line for me is at good order and discipline. Does wearing an Iraqi or Afghani flag on your left sleeve hurt the good order and discipline? Does it support the mission?

Response by SGT Robert Jankowski made Apr 23 at 2015 3:25 PM

SGT Robert Jankowski — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:25:42 -0400

Local commanders would authorize uniform variations based on the local situation. Some times it was also advisable to wear the same uniforms as the indigenous forces to help blend in with them and make them feel more like they're all one team

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Apr 23 at 2015 4:01 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:01:00 -0400

There used to be a saying:

"No combat ready unit ever passed inspection, No inspection ready unit ever passed combat."

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 4:08 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:08:06 -0400

The exchange of uniform flags is something of a tradition for those working with allied nations. I have done this on my last three deployments. I tipipcally exchange flags with a commanding officer after we have developed a bond. I wear the parented flag under the US flag in place of a combat patch. This symbolizes our command bond, our unity, and support one another. The wear of the flags show that our first allegiance is to our nations and displays our partnership. My NCO's would tipically do the same with their respective counterparts.

Response by MSG Greg Murry made Apr 23 at 2015 4:11 PM

MSG Greg Murry — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:11:06 -0400

What a load of crap. Most people against it have never served as advisors, which, by the way, is in another zone of military service. Everything you do or don't do is based on establishing, building, and maintaining rapport. I have seen some stupid stuff in my time but the regular military's view towards what is important for their advisors is a special kind of stupid. This is why AAR's and Lessons Learned is a joke. I fought in Vietnam and served as an advisor in Afghanistan. Nothing learned was carried forward from Vietnam except by a few of us dinosaurs and what's really stupid is that we're still discussing this fourteen years after this war started. The whole thing about beards was a big problem for the rear echelon military leaders then but they never spent a night in an ANA camp or went on patrol with them. All the senior NCO's that are pissing and moaning about 670-1 should retire and do something useful with their lives.

Response by CPT Ray Doeksen made Apr 23 at 2015 4:33 PM

CPT Ray Doeksen — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:33:09 -0400

These answers are a little sketchy, because it's a one-answer only arrangement and there is a lot to talk about here.

I don't think there are many/any situations that would warrant wearing another countries flag ... I can't think of one, anyway, off the top of my head. In uniform, I represent the USA, in every way, and there shouldn't be any confusion about that. Even if it's a NATO or UN mission, we still participate as US soldiers. If there's a patch or uniform change that is needed, we'll be told and it will be OK'd at DOD level. No personal decision needed in those few cases.

Otherwise:

* It IS a violation of AR-670-1, yes. No argument there.
* If it is in bad taste, do you really have to ask? We can create a PR disaster for the service and the country with that one. There are other regs prohibiting disgrace and dishonor to the service that would figure in here.
* Some things CAN be helpful when building rapport with others.

Real example: auxiliary nametapes in Arabic, Kurdish, Pashtun, etc.. Totally not allowed by AR-670-1, no language other than English is allowed. Considering the situation though, is it worth breaking the reg to establish a good working relationship with a host nation, an ally or even a detainee if it gets the mission done? I think so.

Other example: wearing "special" headgear in a TOC/CP etc. Commander has "role hats" made for S-2, S-3, special staff, etc... and whichever shop member is on duty wears that hat. I think that's also against the reg, but it's in the TOC or specified spaces, and it serves a few purposes. I think that works well and doesn't confuse the issue. Those hats aren't exactly going to show up in the DFAC.

Other example: Would it make sense for a team that was assigned to train a host nation's forces to come up with their own embroidered distinctive patch, maybe one that includes both flags, text in both English and host nation language? Maybe, as long as it's only worn in conjunction with that mission.

I think the AR needs to be updated to reflect certain modern realities about the complexity of our relationships with other societies.

* No homework or googling was done for this post, it is off the cuff and intended to promote civil discussion.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 4:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:48:36 -0400

It is a violation, and while working on a MiTT I wore my Iraqi unit's patch and wore the equivalent of my rank in the Iraqi Army on my "Fobbit Bra." It was wrong and I got corrected a few too many times, but it did make my job as an adviser easier and did help build esprit de corps between the MiTT and the IA units and Soldiers I worked with.

That being said, I would never wear their Flag, I'm not an Iraqi, I'm an American. I was adopted into their unit, and wearing foreign rank is practiced in some cases in order to make it easier on the other Army's Soldiers.

Response by SGT Justin Singleton made Apr 23 at 2015 4:52 PM

SGT Justin Singleton — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:52:10 -0400

I don't mind motivational patches (we wore "recon" tabs under our boonies), but I don't like the idea of wearing another country's flag.

Response by CSM Richard Montcalm made Apr 23 at 2015 4:55 PM

CSM Richard Montcalm — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:55:18 -0400

I was over in Afghanistan until recently as a contractor; I was amazed by the plethora of unauthorized patches worn by Service members- mainly Air Force and Navy. The "Don't Tread on Me" subdued flag with a rattlesnake(NOT the Gadsden Flag), made up patches, blood type patches, etc... were out of control on Kandahar and Bagram and with them it's just a wink and a nod. Didn't see many Army and absolutely NO Marines wearing those type of patches. I get it that there were some worn for 'solidarity' with the Afghan Mil but those were authorized by someone with Courts Martial Authority- i.e. a BN CDR or higher.

Likewise, I saw other countries' militaries wearing 'Ranger' an 'Special Forces' Tabs- not mil issue but locally produced. That pretty irritating also; they probably would be pissed off if we wore some of their insignia without earning, don't you agree?

I'm sure somewhere there is a Coalition version of AR 670-1 that applies to all members of the Coalition but it seems no one is enforcing it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 5:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 17:08:11 -0400

Where the soldier in the picture is wearing the Afghan flag, we wore a patch with Afghan and U.S. flags on my first deployment to Afghanistan and an ISAF patch on my second. Everybody wore it and I never heard any complaints, but I think there is a different attitude between people who work with locals all day, every day, like ETT's, and people in line units, who mainly work with Americans.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Apr 23 at 2015 5:23 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 17:23:13 -0400

As I read the post, it asked about patches/flags....

1. US military members wear only the US Flag.

2. As far as patches go, there were a number of "alternative" patches and tabs that were for sell in Iraq when I was there. I was in a gun truck unit, but I was the operations sergeant and rarely went out on a mission. Some of the guys in my platoon had bought a FOBIT tab they found on a run to Anaconda and gave it to me when they got back after a mission. For those that were not over there, a FOBIT is a person who spends his time on the FOB. For the old timers, we use to call them REMF. I wore that tab for several days. It wasn't like I was wearing a real tab which would come under stolen valor. It was me getting busted by my guys and me being a good sport about it.

3. When I arrived in Iraq, I was wearing a combat patch that was not authorized in my service record. My last combat unit was from the Marine Corps from back in Vietnam. I was able to get several 1st Marine Air Wing subdued patches and attached Velcro to it. Nobody from private to colonel who asked me about the patch said I needed to remove it. After I returned, I wore one of 3 patches from the Army that I was authorized to wear.

4. I also am a gamer. At the time my online gaming name was Slydr.Vet. I had the shop down at Camp Shelby, MS make me a name tag. I then had a guy take my picture so I could post it online for my gaming community. I never tried to wear it as a part of the uniform outside of the immediate area of my barracks while taking some pictures.

When some of the guys did things like I did, it was no big deal. We were just having a bit of fun.

Response by SGT Kristin Myers made Apr 23 at 2015 5:51 PM

SGT Kristin Myers — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 17:51:52 -0400

My guys had different random patches but I only allowed them to be worn under their pocket, out of sight. If they wanted to show someone, that was ok. But then it was back under wraps. As for other countries and us displaying their flag on our shoulder, I believe that is a no go. We are already there in support of their mission and country, there should be no need to display their flag on our uniform.

Response by SGT Kristin Myers made Apr 23 at 2015 5:52 PM

SGT Kristin Myers — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 17:52:32 -0400

Response by SGT Kristin Myers made Apr 23 at 2015 5:52 PM

SGT Kristin Myers — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 17:52:33 -0400

Response by SPC Joseph Lecuyer made Apr 23 at 2015 6:39 PM

SPC Joseph Lecuyer — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 18:39:19 -0400

I personally didn't wear another nations flag on my uniform while deployed but I did however wear a "give a fuck meter" patch that was always on empty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 8:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 20:42:31 -0400

Last I checked I'm in the U.S. Army, and the regulation is literally black and white. You shake hands or break bread to broker friendship.

Response by 1SG Tim Gunst made Apr 23 at 2015 9:31 PM

1SG Tim Gunst — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 21:31:21 -0400

At no time should a US military personnel ever wear a Allied patch. No matter what the circumstances are. You are in the United States military period. I understand trying to bond with allied nations but that isn't the way to do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 12:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 00:05:12 -0400

Are we talking about wearing another nation's flag on our uniform sleeve, or are we talking about wearing "motivational" patches on our kits? Two totally different things if you ask me.

Response by CPL Lane Bailey made Apr 24 at 2015 9:14 AM

CPL Lane Bailey — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:14:21 -0400

No I would not I'm a U.S Solider there for I only wear the patches and flag that go on my uniform. If you read AR 670-1 it doesn't say I can wear a different nations flag on my uniform and I never will

Response by SSG Scott Burk made Apr 24 at 2015 10:20 AM

SSG Scott Burk — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:20:31 -0400

Commanders should decide the wearing of "host country" patches.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Apr 24 at 2015 10:24 AM

CPL Brian Clouser — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:24:01 -0400

Last time I was deployed, I was only allow to wear my unit patch, my"war" patch and the U.S. flag. With that said I wouldn't wear another nation flag for one simple reason I am an American in the United State Army.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 1:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:25:04 -0400

Lots of hardliners on this subject. And plenty of those who love to regurgitate regulations. There is always a time and place for standards, and jesters of good will to build partners where ever we go. Sometimes the most simplest word, jester or deed can change the tide of any situation. If we are so impatient and ridigid on subjects like this, then our efforts around the world mostlikely have meant nothing if we can't be adaptive in our chosen profession.

Response by SSG David Shifflett made Apr 24 at 2015 1:30 PM

SSG David Shifflett — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:30:12 -0400

I can see the point of the results. In the cold war we traded all kinds of things with the Germans, British, Canadian, and French. We wore some of the items in the field and it did help the team effort with our national counterparts. After field exercises it was back to AR670-1.
I spent about 4 years in Iraq, Kuwait and Qatar. I would say the troops were very well disciple in the wear of the uniform. Vietnam and Cold War soldier had a lot more crazier stuff going on the helmet, web gear and boots. In some cases we went a little out of control. Meaning going native. So is harmful, no. Should a commander and senior NCO work with it and make boundaries, sure. I am glad this topic is being talked about.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2015 1:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:34:43 -0400

This picture looks photo shopped. that being said, a U.S Soldier should only be wearing a U.S. patch.

Response by SFC Charles W. Robinson made Apr 24 at 2015 4:40 PM

SFC Charles W. Robinson — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:40:40 -0400

I have worked Civilian/Military Operations before and I voted for "It can be helpful when building a partnership with another nation". I have not worn unauthorized patches though, but I have seen non-standard uniforms and facial hair with Soldiers doing this kind of work.

Response by SrA Kelly Richard made Apr 24 at 2015 5:49 PM

SrA Kelly Richard — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:49:40 -0400

You want to show partnership while deployed to AFG... wear your ISAF patch.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Apr 24 at 2015 6:40 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Fri, 24 Apr 2015 18:40:26 -0400

As long as the US Flag is displayed properly and there is a valid reason for wearing another flag, I don't have an issue with this. A valid reason would be a member of a training team or other unit working with coalition partners. Sharing a patch with coalition partners could help build camaraderie and help strengthen the team. I do not think wearing a patch just because you think it looks cool or was designed by a team member is acceptable. Save that for the morale patches you wear on your hat when you get home.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 12:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 12:28:46 -0400

I never wore another nations flag, but when I was deployed to Iraq I did wear an unauthorized tab. Our platoon was nicknamed "wrecking crew" and we all had a tab made that said that. It was never worn visibly as we all wore it under our left shoulders pocket flap, but we all had it and it was a source of camaraderie and morale. I still have mine in a shoe box with the rest of my military keepsakes and when I eventually get around to making a shadow box it be a part of it.

Response by MSG Greg Murry made Apr 26 at 2015 10:50 AM

MSG Greg Murry — Sun, 26 Apr 2015 10:50:25 -0400

Unauthorized patches and other items of distinction are a long tradition in the U.S. Army. Combat commanders knew that. Major William O. Darby held a contest among the 1st Ranger Battalion and the Ranger Scroll worn to this day was the result. Of course, it was unauthorized at the time.

BG Frank Merrill did the same in Burma and the Marauders chose a patch that is today the unit crest for the 75th Ranger Regiment. It has the colors of the various combat teams of the Marauders except for Khaki which was represented by the khaki uniform they wore at that time.

Both of these leaders took a chance with their careers for the sake of the morale of their men. Remember, Darby was serving under Patton in North Africa and Sicily. Patton would fine a man for not wearing a necktie in combat.

It is a good idea for a CO to do something like this, especially if the morale is low. Stupid patches like pork eating crusaders are a no-brainer except for those deficient in that area. Of course he has to have the courage and skill to do so, but if he doesn't, then why is he even there?

Response by 1LT Richard C. made Apr 27 at 2015 12:08 PM

1LT Richard C. — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:08:03 -0400

I put my vote to the Regs..which was the answer most closely related to my opinion. The DA Pam 670-1 covers the combat uniforms for field use. I don't remember it spelling out anything about combat uniform accessories/accouterments (remember chocolate chip uniforms with woodland camo pouches and olive drab flak vest?).

What AR 670-1 does cover is:
22–13. Badges not authorized for wear on Army uniforms
a. Badges awarded by States and other jurisdictions inferior to the U.S. Government, except as provided in DA Pam 670–1 for ARNG Soldiers in their State status.
b. Badges awarded by jurisdictions inferior to foreign national governments.
c. Badges awarded by foreign civilian organizations.
d. Foreign military badges, except as previously authorized.
e. Marksmanship badges awarded by other U.S. Services.
f. Locally authorized badges.

Will troops still wear stuff they shouldn't? - hell yeah! I would wear my next rank under my pocket flap as motivation.

Response by CSM Donald McGlasson made Apr 28 at 2015 1:08 PM

CSM Donald McGlasson — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:08:00 -0400

We've been bombarded with nearly 100 changes to the uniform composition from material of the acu to the development and issue of the asu. I've witnessed so many uniform violations that I would rather our Soldiers wear it correctly before adding ANYTHING else to it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 10:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:58:38 -0400

If the C.O.C. approves there should be no issue. If my unit approves of patches I would wear a funny one, for morale. Nothing heals pain faster than laughter.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 10:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:34:34 -0400

I have work in Peru (South America) and in Afghanistan as combat adviser and I wore the flag of that country in order to build the partnership that is nessesary to acomplish the mission.

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 2 at 2015 7:20 AM

MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM — Sat, 02 May 2015 07:20:59 -0400

I understand the regs but my opinion may be different here. It depends. How visible are you? Are you in Kabul, Bagram or Kandahar? Or are you at some remote and unknown FOB? Are the patches disrespectful to anyone? A little bit of relaxation goes a long way for morale when experiencing a hardship. There isn't a single person on this planet that is 100% by the book 100% of the time. If they say they are don't trust them.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2015 10:18 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 May 2015 10:18:26 -0400

Improvise, adapt, overcome, these are traits of good leadership, even if they break the Uniform regs. In War, rules have to be bent to get the mission done.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 8:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 20:45:20 -0400

I personally have seen this alot when we are deployed and i think in a way its good for the men and morale. So long as its in good taste and not offensive i would not see an issue with it.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 8:51 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 20:51:01 -0400

I am just leaving security cooperation position at U.S. Army Pacific and the exchange/wear of another nations patch/flag truly helps to build rapport and advance personal relationships that ultimately build the foundation for partnership and capacity building.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2015 10:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 May 2015 22:49:11 -0400

I do not believe that we should be wearing unauthorized anything. We are the US Army (or applicable service) and there are rules for a reason. Wearing unauthorized anything looks bad upon us for anyone that knows our rules. We are not groups of private army running a muck, doing what we want. Doing what we want does not conform to what we stand for, and does not help our discipline at all levels.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Feb 24 at 2016 9:44 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:44:19 -0500

I won't tolerate it on the uniform. I've scuffed up a few in theater for that asshattery.

Now, on your chest harness flap or assault pack, no problem. Just don't sashay around in uniform wearing one stuck on your Velcro pocket flaps etc.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 24 at 2016 9:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:52:30 -0500

Hell no. It's called a uniform for uniformity.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 10:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:41:34 -0500

I kept one in my pocket on my last deployment. All it said was "That Guy". One of my guys have a duhh moment he "won" the patch for the day. Kept morale up pretty good.

Response by SPC Brandon Short made May 24 at 2017 7:50 AM

SPC Brandon Short — Wed, 24 May 2017 07:50:04 -0400

Only wore the US Flag, but wore this patch while assisting Iraqi SF guys.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2017 10:10 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 May 2017 10:10:15 -0400

It is a moral booster and builds camaraderie amongst the platoon/troop/squadron.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made May 26 at 2017 12:11 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Fri, 26 May 2017 12:11:30 -0400

I don't think negative patches toward a host country does anybody any favor(s)
If a troop who's later a Vet chooses or as chosen to display such a patch will just have to deal with negative feelings toward them should they be confronted.

Response by SSgt David Marks made Sep 17 at 2017 2:36 AM

SSgt David Marks — Sun, 17 Sep 2017 02:36:23 -0400

That would depend on the higher ups, I don't think so, unless you are deployed as a UN soldier, then you would display the UN Flag.

Response by SPC David Weir made Sep 21 at 2017 5:36 AM

SPC David Weir — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 05:36:41 -0400

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 1 at 2018 11:21 AM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 11:21:54 -0500

I can't recall any soldiers on my deployment wearing non US flags. 2 or 3 wanted to wear a patch on the opposite shoulder of a US flag crossed with an Afghan flag. But that was squashed very quickly.

As far as moto patches, nearly all our platoons had them. And even some squads. My squad wore tabs that said "BN FUCKED US" inside a shoulder flap. Story behind that was my squad worked more closely with our BN stationed at another base than with Company elements. They routinely flat out ignored intel or asset requests from my section. So that tab was born from frustration of dealing with a higher command. I also had a Punisher skull added to one of my ISAF patches as homage to a 2006 deployment my unit did before I joined.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 1 at 2018 11:23 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 11:23:22 -0500

Depending on your and higher commands orders

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 2 at 2018 12:54 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 12:54:22 -0500

Who says the are unauthorized?? When assigned o a Multinational Forces and Observers rotation (6mo)- we were required to wear the MFO beret with that crest- not our Airborne Maroon one. It was required by the treaty and backed by the State Dept- that out trumped anything from DA. Bottom line there young LT- you will wear what you are ordered to wear and let higher sort it out if there is a problem.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Apr 7 at 2019 1:29 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 01:29:32 -0400

Only un-auth patches I had went on g.I. Vest after I retired.. only the Vets whose company I was in knew the translation.. maybe a few civilians that were of Vietnam descent ..

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2019 12:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 00:54:47 -0400

If going beyond the wire with a partner force and as long as it's in good taste, more power to ya. I think day-to-day on FOB, conventional units should wear the proper uniform.