Were you trained and qualified to fire a weapon in basic training and or beyond?

2015-07-23T16:14:43-04:00

There is a lot of talk about recruiters being qualified to carry a weapon. It was brought to my attention that not all MOS' were given training to carry a weapon and or to fire a weapon. Out of curiosity I thought I'd post the question here on RP.
I qualified with .45 cal, 9mm, M-16. I also fired the 12 gauge as well as an AT-4 and threw hand grenades as a part of my training. We were trained to break down and reassemble with a time requirement. We also broke down and cleaned and reassembled our weapons routinely. SPORTS was drilled into our heads so that we could do it without thinking as well as how to recognize and correct the malfunctions and or stoppage of a M16. How to mechanically zero, adjust fire, complete function checks, know the 8 steps of functioning for a M16..... I don't know if the reason we were drilled so hard on this was because our DS was Infantry or if every single MP received the same training. I'm sorry to hear not everyone received the same standard of training.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:16 PM

2015-07-23T16:16:38-04:00

Basic Training certainly, and annually (when ammo and ranges are available).

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:16 PM

2015-07-23T16:16:53-04:00

All Soldiers are trained in basic training.

Response by CPL(P) Bret Farritor made Jul 23 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-07-23T16:17:35-04:00

Of course!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:17 PM

2015-07-23T16:17:53-04:00

I qualified on the M-16 in basic as the primary weapon for enlisted Airmen. However, my job as aircrew required qualification on the M9, so once I arrived at my first duty station, that is what I qualified on and kept current throughout my career.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:19 PM

2015-07-23T16:19:11-04:00

My understanding is that all service members initially qualify during BCT/Boot Camp, etc. They may not have an annual qualification requirement though (my brother served 4 years in the AF and never touched a weapon after basic).

Response by SPC Tony Bucaro made Jul 23 at 2015 4:20 PM

2015-07-23T16:20:21-04:00

I don't know where you heard this from but back in the day when I was in the Army, you were a fighting soldier before anything else. All soldiers had to qualify with their assigned weapon at the very least. If what you say is true, then the Army is really turning soft and we need to fix this ASAP!!

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 23 at 2015 4:28 PM

2015-07-23T16:28:51-04:00

Both in Basic Training and on subsequent assignments.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 23 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-07-23T16:29:37-04:00

I qualified with the M16A2, M249, M9, M4, and the M2.

Response by SFC Kevin Presser made Jul 23 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-07-23T16:29:52-04:00

Qualified on the M-16 in basic, and annually after that. The only exception was 2 years I was on recruiting duty. Being a recruiter was like being in a civilian organization. Career recruiters were so immersed in civilian sales mindsets they could no longer March troops in a formation.

I was in the field artillery, but even when assigned as an instructor at schools in Ft Sill and Grafenwoehr, Germany we still had an annual requirement to qualify on our assigned weapons.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Jul 23 at 2015 4:32 PM

2015-07-23T16:32:37-04:00

That brings up a good point - according to FMSWeb, recruiting TDAs do not have any weapon authorizations. Not sure how how consistently they qualify, or how well they maintain their qualifications.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-07-23T16:34:00-04:00

Sir, that is a very personal choice. Even though I am a medic, I have trained with all sorts of weapons, including crew served. Mark19's M249, M2's,9mm, Shotguns, pistols, saw, etc. Not all people are gun ho. I did in particular bought the civilian version of the most likely weapons I use, the 92FS and and AR15 with mil specs, without burst. Became a NRA pistol shotgun, rifle instructor basic and intermediate. I like shooting, it relaxes me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-07-23T16:34:51-04:00

Thank you everyone who has responded thus far. I was unable to comprehend a soldier not being trained with weapons.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 23 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-07-23T16:34:51-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Most folks train on rifle marksmanship in basic training. Army Reserve/NG typically trains yearly on our assigned weapon, in my case the M9. When deploying, I setup the training for our unit so that any Officer and Sr. NCO qualified on M16 and M9. So this largely depends on the unit and how they train.
Recruiters may need to add M9 training to their yearly rifle qualification to support a requirement to carry. I think we should be like the Israeli Army and always carry when on duty.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jul 23 at 2015 4:35 PM

2015-07-23T16:35:44-04:00

All Marines are qualified in boot camp and re-qualify every year. They have a week of snapping in and a week of live fire and qualification. Table one is known distance firing at 200, 300 and 500 yards. Table 2 is an in close target engagement. They combine the two scores for qualification. Of course there is a fair amount of other firing that might go on annually too beyond qualification.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 4:39 PM

2015-07-23T16:39:02-04:00

Even though this seems more geared towards you Army folks, all sailors shoot the M4 (or whatever variation they have at the time), the M9 and the M500. Subsequent sustainment (every 8 months) and annual refresher (yearly) is done by topside rates in the surface community (not engineers unless on spec detail). Not sure about continuing shooting for air and sub sides. I have to shoot and keep current M4, M9, M500, M249 and the good ol "Ma duce."

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jul 23 at 2015 4:42 PM

2015-07-23T16:42:42-04:00

I was highly trained on the M14. Fired expert in BCT, AIT, and Infantry OCS. Issued an M16 when I arrived in Vietnam. Received no training on it. Fortunately, no one depended on my shooting skill with it. Especially me...

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 23 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-07-23T16:54:49-04:00

I trained and qualified for the M16A2, and the M9 during basic. I feel every troop should get both pistol and rifle qualifications.

With that in mind, let's get rid of the M9 in favor of a better pistol Glock 17 anyone?

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Jul 23 at 2015 4:57 PM

2015-07-23T16:57:15-04:00

Yes I was in basic but also had to qualify annually since ones on the mobility team and had to be ready to deploy at anytime.

Response by LT Garth Young (Ret) made Jul 23 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-07-23T17:06:06-04:00

Absolutely....and requal annual.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jul 23 at 2015 5:06 PM

2015-07-23T17:06:25-04:00

Trained with a .45 in basic. All recruits did. I can't imagine that's changed.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 23 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-07-23T17:08:21-04:00

Never saw a pistol until I got to permanent party. As for MG's we only got to fire 50 rounds on an M60, and a trainer on a LAW.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 5:29 PM

2015-07-23T17:29:42-04:00

Heres one better. I was USAF first before going Army. As a munitions Specialist, I rode shot gun on nukes during alerts. I was issued a .45 (never held one in my life). I was ordered that no one was to come within 50ft of the nuke. An Ltc wanted to inspect us for safety violations. He kept comong closer and I told him to stop till a supervisor could show. He, didnxt, so I unholstered. He got the message, but I don't k ow who was more scarred. With all the safetys on the m911
, I don't think I could have got a shot off anyway. Being a young buck, it was cool to carry the weapon, but after four hrs of the damn thing banging against my hip, it litteraly becam a pain in the ass. I was glad to get rid of it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 5:44 PM

2015-07-23T17:44:35-04:00

I've qualified with the M4, M9, and M16, and I'm familiar with the M2, M249, M240, and the M203. Everyone should be qualified and proficient with their assigned weapon, and you'll usually see multiple others during your time in

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-07-23T17:51:31-04:00

It's been a few decades, but to my knowledge all MOS's received weapons training during Basic Training. Then when they arrived at AIT ( Advanced Individual Training) they trained on their specific MOS or what job they were going to be assigned to. For myself, I was always Infantry, so I stared Basic with the M-14 and later the M 16. When I went to AIT, I was introduced to other Infantry Weapons like the 106 RR,TOW, Dragon, 60mm Mortar,etc. All soldiers should be trained as Rifleman regardless of MOS. Just my opinion.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-07-23T18:14:27-04:00

M16A2 & M9 in boot. M249 & M203 in tech school. When I went to my duty station I added shotgun & MK19 to my resume.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jul 23 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-07-23T18:14:36-04:00

.45 resleeved to fire .22 in boot camp. At Nuclear Power School (staff), I qualified Pistol on my own time, own expense...

Response by SSgt Donnavon Smith made Jul 23 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-07-23T18:44:54-04:00

1994 in Basic Training I qualified on a VietNam era M-16 (slick side, no assist) it had a sewer pipe for a barrel and shot a 44 out of 40! Yup Maximum +4. lol and then re-qualified annually on A2s.

Response by MSgt Niclas Svensson made Jul 23 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-07-23T18:59:17-04:00

I've qual'd on M16/M4 & M9 at various points throughout my career. Though I have rarely been in a situation where I was required to carry a weapon in my career, between the training I've received from the Air Force, as well as my own training with my personal firearms, I would consider myself pretty well trained with firearms (Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon).

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 23 at 2015 7:09 PM

2015-07-23T19:09:00-04:00

Yes on all battery level weapons every 6 months.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jul 23 at 2015 7:33 PM

2015-07-23T19:33:31-04:00

Basic was a 9mm bored down to a .22. After that was nothing until FMSS, where it was just fam fire with the M-16. After FMSS, I went to Lima 3/3 where I qualified yearly with my M9 and once with with my M-16. Did fairly well too.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Jul 23 at 2015 9:25 PM

2015-07-23T21:25:10-04:00

No. I was handed a hand out with the different position to shoot....asked if I had ever shot a rifle before...told how to load it...had a few practice shots, then shot at the target... Basic training consisted of handing me a M-16. showing me the positions I had to shoot in and I shot. There was no training...maybe in the Army or Marines...but not in AF basic...not when I went through it. It was more like seeing how well you knew or didn't know and how well you could shoot or couldn't shoot. After basic I was never asked again to shoot or required to.

Response by Sgt Joe LaBranche made Jul 23 at 2015 10:10 PM

2015-07-23T22:10:36-04:00

Yes! All Marines are well trained. All Marine are infantry first!

Response by SPC Anne Miller made Jul 23 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-07-23T22:25:27-04:00

Yes.

Response by SSG Sean Gallagher made Jul 23 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-07-23T23:44:10-04:00

I can put a round through a fleas' ass at 300 meters with a rifle. 1100 meters with the M240B.

Response by CPL Roland Newton made Jul 24 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-07-24T00:55:18-04:00

One of the to 3 things I miss

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 24 at 2015 4:13 AM

2015-07-24T04:13:38-04:00

Not in Boot Camp (we got to shoot 45's converted to 22lr) but finally years later I got a chance to qualify 9mm, M16, M4, and 12 gauge.

Response by SSG Michael O'Malley made Jul 24 at 2015 7:48 AM

2015-07-24T07:48:36-04:00

When I was in basic I trained and qualified in the M16 same in AIT. In the TN National Guard as a medic I trained and qualified on the M16 m4 and M9 yearly. Even during my OIF tour we had a qual. Our pilots must even qualify on M9 and M4

Response by SSG Michael O'Malley made Jul 24 at 2015 7:51 AM

2015-07-24T07:51:59-04:00

The only MOS that I know of that is not assigned to carry a weapon on the unit MTOE is the Chaplin.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 24 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-07-24T07:53:33-04:00

The minimal amount of training recieved in basic is not satisfactory. Anyone can safely carry a weapon when it's unloaded and you are surrounded by Drill Instructors/Sergeants who are micromanaging you every second.

It's the training AFTER basic that matters. All the range time, familiarization training, additional qualification, advanced marksmanship training and years of familiarity that matter. While some Soldiers recieve this, they are not in the majority. Most Soldiers handle their weapons a few hours a year (and have actual ammo far less time than that). So no, it's not safe to assume that anyone in uniform is trained and proficient.

I'm sure all of us can think of "those guys". The one's in your current or past unit that you hope never touch a weapon ever again for all of our safety.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/17/us-usa-georgia-recruiter-idUSKCN0PR2DI20150717

U.S. Navy recruiter shoots himself in leg in Georgia

A U.S. Navy recruiter in Georgia accidentally shot himself in the leg with his own handgun Friday at a local recruiting office, police said.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jul 24 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-07-24T10:22:06-04:00

Every one is a Soldier first. In the Army you are supposed to qualify every year. You don't really have to do it well and you don't learn how to shoot a target that moves but you have to qualify. I was part of probably one of the most P.O.G. MOS's however I never shot less than expert and once shot 44 out of 40 (Infantry guys thinking I needed extra rounds). I took pride in being a Soldier and a paralegal.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 7:07 PM

2015-07-24T19:07:01-04:00

I was trained with an M4A1 in basic and I'm a linguist. I will likely never use a weapon unless I'm attached to a tactical unit. I still have to qualify every year in my unit.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-07-25T21:38:52-04:00

We shot the pistol course twice with a 45 at OCS. As a SSBN sailor, we would re-qualify on handgun (shifted to 9mm) each off-crew. However, some of the enlisted were supposed to also qualify on M-14 or 12 gauge, depending what watches they stood. I can honestly say that I've seen E-4's who needed 15 seconds to "combat load" a 12 gauge get pushed through and 'qualified', even though they'd be better off throwing the shotgun than being able to use it. The standard of training that people get can vary significantly.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 25 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-07-25T21:53:25-04:00

I qualified on the M-16/A2 during basic training. Since I was going to be a cop more weapons training was headed my way. I was certified on the M16 and M9 during tech school. I learned to operate the M-203 and M-249 before completing the course. I became certified on the M-203 when I arrived at Malmstrom, but lost that certification prior to PCSing to Germany. I wouldn't touch that weapon again until 7-Level. Eventually, the M4 replaced the M16 and I remained certified on both it and the M9 during my career.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Jul 28 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-07-28T04:41:56-04:00

m14 and 45 in basic carried into ITR where we were trained with all individual hand held weapons ---then more at staging battalion before deployment

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 4 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-09-04T14:15:11-04:00

Had basic firearms qualification in Boot Camp, if I recall it was .45 cal, converted to .22 cal, becoming familiar with the basic operation and then shooting one magazine each person.
When I was on ASF in Japan we shot .38 cal and 12 gauge shot gun, again minimal rounds fired just to be familiar with the weapon.
On ASF again in Yorktown we shot the 9mm, M-16 and 12 gauge shot gun regularly to be proficient with the weapons.
Every time though we had to be familiar with how to properly handle the weapons including cleaning them.
I think we need more weapons training though in the Navy because its only when your in a job that requires a weapon will you be trained on it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-09-04T14:57:34-04:00

I qualified with the M14 in boot camp, after transitioning to the Army I qualified with several personal weapons: M16, 1911, MP5, and M9.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-09-04T15:36:13-04:00

I think it's an important point to make that all "training" is not equal. I had similar "basic" weapons training as a Mid, and I certainly didn't feel "competent" as a result of it. In later commands, particularly after 9/11, I did receive advanced training for FPTT, etc., and that increased my comfort and ability, but not at any level equal to combat MOSs. However, after completing training with the 1st Infantry Division, I did feel as though I could at least be a useful asset in an extreme circumstance. Since then, I've had other training on the civil side that I feel warrants my confidence in carrying a weapon for self-defense. I don't feel it would be that difficult to ensure that at least some duty personnel at a recruiting command or other non-traditional installation had that level of competency. I think I'm not broaching any lanes here to suggest that there is however a difference between personnel who are trained to fight sustained ground combat as a maneuver unit, and those trained to react to extreme events...

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 4 at 2015 4:06 PM

2015-09-04T16:06:21-04:00

Not as I recall. We were trained in the basics, but never fired a M-1 or .45. We even drilled with '03 Springfields. Stop it, that was in 1957, not 1857.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 3:05 AM

2015-09-09T03:05:29-04:00

In basic, I trained on the m16 rifle, grenades, m240B, m249 and familiarized with M2, mk19, and AT4. When I got to my National Guard unit my first qualification was a M16, and nothing else. Then we entered premob and I qualified on an M4, M9, m240B, M2, and familiarized with the m249 and mk19. I believe with the current events the army should either employ more MPs or deputize all military members, who are qualified to side arms. When deployed every soldier is given a weapon and must hold on to it 24/7. The risk of dying in the CONUS is higher than that of a war zone so why not protect those we invest so much into.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 9 at 2015 8:41 AM

2015-09-09T08:41:52-04:00

Yes i was

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Sep 9 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-09-09T08:49:05-04:00

There is quite a difference between training someone to use a weapon at the range, use a weapon in a combat situtation and training people in the intense shoot / dont-shoot that law enforcement receives.

Response by CPO Don Lamb made Sep 9 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-09-09T08:49:12-04:00

Trained no, but I did qualify for both 9mm and M-16.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-09-09T08:58:43-04:00

I was not trained or qualified to fire a weapon in basic training. Years later, I did qualify with the pistol.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made Sep 9 at 2015 9:00 AM

2015-09-09T09:00:26-04:00

M203 was my weapon. I loved that thing. I'm proud to say I qualified expert with my M16/203 and grenades.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Sep 9 at 2015 9:10 AM

2015-09-09T09:10:53-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member when I was in Navy boot camp, the range was closed so all we did was play laser tag. I did qualify when I went to my ship. M-14, 12Ga Shotgun, and 9MM Beretta were the three weapons we fired.
Funny thing is two weeks ago, I went shooting with a friend who had a new gun she purchased. It was the first time in my life that I had to actually clear a malfunction. Apparently the oil that certain manufacturers use for shipping is not as good a lubricant as it is a preservative. The gun would fire, eject the cartridge, but the slide would not return leaving a partially chambered round, and a partially open slide. Glad I learned about that stuff before hand.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Sep 9 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-09-09T10:43:08-04:00

Basic,ITR,SB,Trained with all hand held shoulder weapons,which at that time included the M-14 ,M60 and the M79 had to qualify with the .45 in radio school.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Sep 9 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-09-09T11:08:17-04:00

In basic, we fam-fired .45s with .22 sleeves. When I was a staff instructor at Nuclear Power School, I qualified pistol, but had to pay for my ammo and did it on my own time...

Response by PO3 Jeff Hawkins made Sep 9 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-09-09T11:14:08-04:00

As some other navy guys have explained we got maybe an hour at the range with 80 of us on a modified .22 for "familiarity" and fired maybe 1 10rd mag.
I never would have seen the range again except the Marine detachment on on the ship needed a Corpsman to come with them on their range quals and I was chosen to go with them. Over the course of a couple of days a Marine Lt taught me how to shoot (the marines laughed at me while I tried to disassemble and clean my weapons and then just did it for me). Most of the shipmates i know were never taken to the range, although a few took the initiative to figure out how to get qualified individually when their units didn't have range time.
On the other hand, the ship itself spent lots of time firing its weapons to make sure it was proficient in blowing up bad guys!

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Sep 9 at 2015 11:38 AM

2015-09-09T11:38:43-04:00

CPT M Cannonie - It was because he was Infantry. In the Infantry our weapon is our life. I have been trained on M-4, M-16( A1, A2). M-203, M-320( I think the new side load 40 mm) MRK-19, M-50, m-60, 240B, M-249. M-9, 45 cal, Glock 19,23,22. I have Qualified on all but the Glock and 45. Some from the Infantry and some from the MP's. Now I have never seen our cooks on the firing lines! I haven't been in other units to know who quals or not. Now when I was Infantry everyone was on the firing line. Supply, cooks, mechanics, Medics EVERYONE.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 9 at 2015 11:23 PM

2015-09-09T23:23:38-04:00

Until reading this thread I didn't realize that there were people in the military who never fired a gun.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-09-10T09:54:08-04:00

Ma'am, I trained on the M-16 in basic training. After AIT I was assigned to an infantry unit (Big Red One!) and trained further on the M-249 (SAW), M-203 (Grenade lancher), .50 Cal, and MK-19. Once I PCSd to another unit to support a Joint Task Force, I attended further weapons training on the 9MM and M-4, including move and shoot and vehicular tactics. And I am in an Intel MOS - often seen as one of the least combat ready (though I disagree with that generality).

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Sep 10 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-09-10T16:31:01-04:00

Qualified with M16 basicthen later in Fort Riley KS M249, M240B, 9MM,

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-09-17T14:15:53-04:00

Shot plenty in basic and then BOLC, and my company runs ranges almost monthly, a combination of qualification and advanced marksmanship ranges. Can't comprehend a situation in which a Soldier would not have to be qualified on at least the M4.

Response by PO1 Charles Kimbril made Sep 24 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-09-24T12:59:20-04:00

I qualified on the .22 in boot camp, 1986.
Pistol quals around 1994, I think.
Carried a shotgun and .45 in support of CG watches/security 1999-2000.
Never got any training, it's very sad actually. As a civilian, shooting and training as much as I do now, I don't know how any sailor would be able to effectively defend himself if he wasn't shooting/training on his own.