Posted on Mar 29, 2018
What advice and thoughts do you have regarding my response to an upcoming Article 15?
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I graduated ait in the top of my class. I have a 275 pt score. I had never been in trouble. Some one pranked me and I pranked them back by urinating in his shampoo bottle. Long story short someone told my plt sgt. And a 303 informal investigation was started. I told the truth right off the bat of what I did. If I am man enough to do it I am man enough to say it. I have been a hold for four weeks after being flagged two days before graduating. I still graduated but I am waiting for my article. My Company commander came up to me at last formation 2 days ago and said “I just want to let you know your packet came back from legal, we have a few things to talk about. We will be talking soon.” He then asked if I wanted to stay in. I of course said yes. He said alright we will be talking soon. I have prepared in mind what I would like to say which is,
Sir. I understand that what I did is wrong and poorly reflects my ability to follow the army values and I regret doing what I did but at the end of the day what is done is done. If I could go back and not do it I would. I have learned a big lesson regarding 2nd and 3rd order effects. I accept the consequences that come with my action. I would like to recieve my punishment for what I did and then drive on with the mission. What do you think he meant when he told me what he did? And how does that sound?
Sir. I understand that what I did is wrong and poorly reflects my ability to follow the army values and I regret doing what I did but at the end of the day what is done is done. If I could go back and not do it I would. I have learned a big lesson regarding 2nd and 3rd order effects. I accept the consequences that come with my action. I would like to recieve my punishment for what I did and then drive on with the mission. What do you think he meant when he told me what he did? And how does that sound?
Article 15
AIT Student
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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PVT (Join to see); that's the best thing you could say. If this is the whole story and there isn't any other baggage going along with it that will come out later, I'd expect you'll be fine. Take it seriously and own up to it. Don't take this the wrong way, but I can almost guarantee that when your commander heard about this he laughed his a$$ off...if this is the whole story. He is going to be annoyed at dealing with petty BS, but that's funny right there. Now, yes it's wrong. I think we can all agree that urinating in someone's shampoo is not an adult thing to do, but in my opinion (OPINION), it's not something you'd throw someone out of the Army for. If it were me, I'd file it locally and suspend punishments, but that's up to your commander and how much of a point he has to make. What you said is fine. Stick to it. Be prepared to answer questions truthfully and with honor. Don't piss in someone's shampoo again.
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PVT (Join to see)
I talked to the first sgt. And he said it would most likely be a company grade, but everyone waits months for there first reading. People have been waiting 3+ months for there first reading.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
PVT (Join to see) - I would hope the 1SGT is being up front with you. Don't get too uptight about it, I got into two fights with the same guy and got hauled in front of the Captain twice, but I made Captain and the other unnamed individual I believe retired a SMG. OTOH, in D8-2 you would have had the first reading the first time the Captain was in the Company area after the Platoon Sgt brought it to his attention.
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SGM Erik Marquez
All good advice and observations.......IF the charge is something relatively minor.
BUT "attacking" someone with human urine which can transmit dieses is a chargeable offence as well Id bet.
BUT "attacking" someone by way of the penis could be taken way out of context (of what was told to us, a prank non sexual in nature) and charged as a sexual offense id think..| Now both of those are requested charges possible (I think), not that a JAG office would sustain and actually put them on a charge document.
I THINK, Id have dealt with it differently than the CoC seems to be.. BUT I can see how with the hazing and other abuses that have happened, a CofC needs to take some official action that can be seen and reviewed by senior folks, who, can if they want do something else, or nothing else if they agree with the action. But at that point its off the company commanders shoulders
BUT "attacking" someone with human urine which can transmit dieses is a chargeable offence as well Id bet.
BUT "attacking" someone by way of the penis could be taken way out of context (of what was told to us, a prank non sexual in nature) and charged as a sexual offense id think..| Now both of those are requested charges possible (I think), not that a JAG office would sustain and actually put them on a charge document.
I THINK, Id have dealt with it differently than the CoC seems to be.. BUT I can see how with the hazing and other abuses that have happened, a CofC needs to take some official action that can be seen and reviewed by senior folks, who, can if they want do something else, or nothing else if they agree with the action. But at that point its off the company commanders shoulders
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SGM Erik Marquez
PVT (Join to see) - People have been waiting 3+ months for there first reading."
Perhaps a open door policy request and lay out what you have to say, including, Sir, I'm not going to appeal, not going to demand trial by CM. I did it, I was wrong, anything you can do to speed up the process so I can deal with it and move on would be greatly appreciated.
A Summarized or company grade Art 15 should be actionable in about 2-5 biz days if its walked though by the 1SG... Unless local policy of some sort requires a review of all ART15 by say the Post JAG, or BDE CDR....That might be a back log issue.
At Fort Jackson as a Senior DS, our 1SG and CDR would get an Art15 from my sworn statement to SM's 1st reading in a day or less. And 1SG Ziemski once did one from Sworn statement to 2nd reading and punishment in about 45 min...SM was on his bus to AIT as scheduled ...That one like this was an unwise bit of shenanigans, nor real harm intended just a bad decision. (A lot of class A undershirts were harmed ...They were turned Pink......)
Perhaps a open door policy request and lay out what you have to say, including, Sir, I'm not going to appeal, not going to demand trial by CM. I did it, I was wrong, anything you can do to speed up the process so I can deal with it and move on would be greatly appreciated.
A Summarized or company grade Art 15 should be actionable in about 2-5 biz days if its walked though by the 1SG... Unless local policy of some sort requires a review of all ART15 by say the Post JAG, or BDE CDR....That might be a back log issue.
At Fort Jackson as a Senior DS, our 1SG and CDR would get an Art15 from my sworn statement to SM's 1st reading in a day or less. And 1SG Ziemski once did one from Sworn statement to 2nd reading and punishment in about 45 min...SM was on his bus to AIT as scheduled ...That one like this was an unwise bit of shenanigans, nor real harm intended just a bad decision. (A lot of class A undershirts were harmed ...They were turned Pink......)
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"...I understand that what I did is wrong and poorly reflects my ability to follow the army values and I regret doing what I did but at the end of the day what is done is done..."
I would leave out the "what's done it done..." it gives a whiff of "whatever".
Occams' Razor applies here... K.I.S.S.-->
"What I did was piss-poor judgement and I fully understand how it contradicts the core Army values. I regret what I have done and I have learned an incredibly valuable lesson that will follow me for the rest of my career which I plan to continue in the Army."
I would leave out the "what's done it done..." it gives a whiff of "whatever".
Occams' Razor applies here... K.I.S.S.-->
"What I did was piss-poor judgement and I fully understand how it contradicts the core Army values. I regret what I have done and I have learned an incredibly valuable lesson that will follow me for the rest of my career which I plan to continue in the Army."
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Quite right, Top. Perhaps I could have selected a better phrase. Lol!
PVT (Join to see)
Sorry PVT J Br
"I had a temporary lapse in sound judgement and I fully understand..."
PVT (Join to see)
Sorry PVT J Br
"I had a temporary lapse in sound judgement and I fully understand..."
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LCpl Shane Couch
I would leave the "piss-poor judgment" phrase in there. would most likely get a laugh out of the CC. Just practice keeping a straight face after stating it with people laughing at it.
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I saw there was a concern about this following you to your next unit. Don’t worry about it following you. My daughter got her article 15 and three months later got her acceptance to West Point. And if that gets to your next unit people won’t mess with you cause that’s just nasty! Good luck and you will fit right in to the Infantry- probably fit in as a paratrooper. So if you were not already heading to airborne school...I would say you don’t have a hair on your nuts if you don’t ask that company commander to send you to airborne school after he reads you the charges. A retaliation like that you will fit right into the 82nd or even the 173rd. That was some real paratrooper retaliation!
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