What advice can you give for planning a Mortar Gunnery?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:56:38 -0500

I am planning a Mortar Gunnery but I am not finding a lot out there. I see FM 3-22.90 - Mortars, but it really don't go into Gunnery and the requirements of going into a live fire. I believe there are some new publications coming out but is there anything that hits on the Tables and Gates in one publication. I am focusing on 120mm in a M113. Does anyone out there have their plan or can share their insight.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Nov 29 at 2016 3:44 PM

1LT William Clardy — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:44:00 -0500

It's been a long time since I last sang "That's the life of a mortarman", CPT Private RallyPoint Member, but the rule of thumb back then was that live fires were executed as either an ARTEP or a practice ARTEP. Generally, beyond putting in some time testing mortar gunnery skills (using the SQT standards in the 11C10 Soldier's Manual) and making sure that our tracks were operational (when I was in Cav and Mech Infantry units), we didn't do any other extensive prep.
Actually, there was one significant exception to that: when I was commanding a California National Guard mortar platoon, I force-fed the NCOs a lot of FDC training, because nobody in the platoon knew how to plot fire missions (they had "borrowed" FDC personnel from sister battalions for at least a couple of years prior to my arrival). So my bull-headed insistence that they would, by God, pass their ARTEP using only organic personnel meant that I had to train them for that aspect (I also served as the safety computer during the live fire).

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Nov 29 at 2016 3:47 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:47:21 -0500

I wish I could help you CPT Private RallyPoint Member, but my indirect fire infantryman days ended on 16JUN73 as an 11C4S! Just wanted to say hello and wish you good luck in your quest!

Response by SFC George Smith made Nov 29 at 2016 4:21 PM

SFC George Smith — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 16:21:24 -0500

thats one for the Heavy weapons school ... check with Benning and If you are at Bragg or going to Bragg...Check with The 18B folks at SF Schools... for some good Pointers and Hand outs ...

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Nov 29 at 2016 4:39 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 16:39:36 -0500

Not sure of the changes in FM's, but FM-23-91 Mortar Gunnery covered the execution of live fires and the gunners exam. Also, FM 7-90 Tactical Employment of Mortars is good reference for planning an FTX, but not much in gunnery itself.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Nov 29 at 2016 5:57 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:57:08 -0500

Insure your weapons card (2408-4) for each tube is up to date and tube borescope and pullover has been preformed. This is done by Field Maintenance IAW TM 9-1000-202-35 Evaluation of Cannon Tubes and local policys. Tube is not to be fired if 2408-4 is not up to date. Have seen many sad faces when thwy were not allowed to fire because of this.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2016 7:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:02:05 -0500

Not be on the receiving end?

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 29 at 2016 7:59 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:59:59 -0500

I just did a Google. Does this help? Section 17-3 for carrier mounted setup (FM 23-90, Chapter 7).

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-90/ch7.htm

Evaluation Criteria (FM 23-90, Chapter 9):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-90/ch9.htm

Mortar Fire and how to accurately fire (FM 3-22-91, Entire manual):

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-91/

FM 23-90 Chptr 7 120-mm Mortar, M120

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Response by MAJ Eric G Troup made Nov 29 at 2016 8:44 PM

MAJ Eric G Troup — Tue, 29 Nov 2016 20:44:25 -0500

When a similar problem arose at Ft Bragg (many years ago in the days of manual gunnery and "charts and darts" the artillery FDC 13Es were very helpful.

Response by SPC Kelly Grindstaff made Nov 30 at 2016 9:03 AM

SPC Kelly Grindstaff — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:03:38 -0500

My last time firing a mortar was on the 4 Deuce and the only thing I would be able to add is get the entire platoon up to speed on all their basic skills, especially the 2 gunner they have to really be up to speed in getting your unit laid in. Second let them acclimate them selves on the old school way of FDC and being able to hit and estimate ranges on visible targets. First time I did an FTC on this I was the 2 Gunner and I was hitting visible targets metal on metal. Hell to make it even weirder I was the Driver of the M1107 I think that is the old nomenclature of the mortar carrier. Since they are Vehicle Mounted that is a good place to start is doing it the way they would be doing it in Real Life with the current Equipment you have. Have them completing this without notes.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Nov 30 at 2016 12:29 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:29:10 -0500

"Hey Little Dittle, Far pole in the middle." remember that when your registering your motors and putting in your poles.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2016 1:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:54:59 -0500

Make sure your tubes are laid and your bubbles are level.

Response by SFC Douglas Welch made Dec 6 at 2016 3:13 PM

SFC Douglas Welch — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 15:13:28 -0500

Go old school for gunnery, find a plt sgt frrom the 80's. That was fun and lots of competition

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2016 1:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 01:34:45 -0500

Mortar gunnery is now know as Mortar certification. It falls under DivArty and you can find the DivArty pub on the 7th Id page for JBLM. Also some other helpful pubs are Mortar Platoon Collective task Pub TC 3-21.90 aug 2013
ARTEP 7-90-MTP mission training plan for the infantry Mortar plt. Section and squad. Apr. 2005
And Tactical employment of mortars ATTP 3-21.90 (FM 7-90)/ MCWP 3-15.2 Apr. 2011
There is no longer an updated gunnery/ Mortep manual sir. My best advice would be to link in with the senior Mortar PSG's and your brigade fecc specifically the target acquisitions officer for guidance on your brigade's standard for Mortar Certification.

Response by SSG Jeff Eaken made Dec 17 at 2016 4:51 PM

SSG Jeff Eaken — Sat, 17 Dec 2016 16:51:56 -0500

Yes..There is one publication. I wrote it while I was at the MCOE on Benning as a doctrine writer for 11c's. Reach out to the Gunnery Doctrine Branch at MCOE..ask for a Mr. Steve Krivitsky or Keegan Becker...they whole get you what you need. In the pub..all tables and gates are outlined for you

Response by CPL Asa Wheeler made Jan 2 at 2017 1:55 PM

CPL Asa Wheeler — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 13:55:26 -0500

The best you can do is have your squad work as a well oiled machine. Like clock work. You'll hit your mark every time.

Response by SPC Ras K Sim made Jan 13 at 2017 7:34 AM

SPC Ras K Sim — Fri, 13 Jan 2017 07:34:06 -0500

Concentrate. I was a top gunner for at least two year.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2017 6:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 18:54:32 -0500

Basics then fine tune. Soldiers learn with experience

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2017 7:54 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:54:42 -0400

First if your looking at heavy mech inf. With the 120mm, you will be in a 1064, not a 113. Best advise foe you is get away from the books find a unit that's doing a live fire training exercise and request to tag along as an observer.

Response by SFC Kevin Bradley made Mar 23 at 2017 8:38 PM

SFC Kevin Bradley — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:38:49 -0400

Hey LT. You have a lot of feedback here. I retired in 2007 after 20 years as 11C40. Ran 60mm and TN 81mm. Best advice I can offer is to use your experienced senior NCO's.
I will be curious to see how it all panned out for you when it's done.

Response by CPL Bill Lara made Apr 17 at 2017 10:09 AM

CPL Bill Lara — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:09:25 -0400

Smooth is fast and fast is smooth

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2017 1:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 May 2017 13:02:09 -0400

Every Mortar gunnery I've done has been different. Everything depends on your unit and bases SOPs as far as what they are looking for. Get with the other PSGs across base they should be able to help you figure out the SOP for where you are. Also what SFC Fullerton said is spot on.

Response by SSG Jeff Eaken made May 11 at 2017 1:18 PM

SSG Jeff Eaken — Thu, 11 May 2017 13:18:04 -0400

Get a hold of the Department of Doctrine and Training at the Maneuver Center of Excellence on Benning. Bldg. 4. Ask for Mr. Curtis Archuletta, or Mr. Jergan Becker. There are new tables that I wrote 2 years ago, that haven't been published, but its already been vetted by 3ID and is supposed to be in final editing. Those two gentleman should be able to help you. Tell the SSG Eaken told you to contact them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 12:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:20:45 -0500

Your FDC will give you all the numbers, Deflection and Elevation, dial them in, if off, your FO will give the corrections to the FDC.
A good FDC can get your round in a can, then give you 9 cents change back.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2018 7:13 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:13:02 -0500

If possible, have all of your soldiers take the Gunner's Primary Exam before heading up to the range. That will give your Plt Sgt time to focus on those that are having trouble

Response by SGT Gregg Pimental made Apr 21 at 2018 10:52 PM

SGT Gregg Pimental — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:52:11 -0400

Those guys are 82d. Depending on unit, one of those guns could of been mine.