What advice do you have for managing a situation where my soldier has been arrested following his involvement in a fight at a local bar?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 19:55:04 -0400

To begin,, He violated a General order by going to the bar. I think he'll be facing a FG article 15 just fir that. Then comes the assault charges. How will that play out? Will he have to go to court? What's my role in this situation? I don't want to provide any guidance that goes against the command but I want to try and help him through this. He's been a decent Soldier for the last three months that I've had him. He called me whilst crying to me ask for advice. How should I approach this?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 15 at 2021 8:46 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 20:46:20 -0400

prosecution in the local court is about 100% likely
And frankly you have zero responsibility to do anything about it for it or support it.
Other than keep the chain of command informed on his court dates and the outcome.
As well as process his leave form to give him time to go to court because I sure as heck wouldn’t give him free time off

My mother had a saying I remember it to this day and have used it widely over my 56 years.
“Self-imposed pain gets no pity “

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2021 12:47 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 00:47:58 -0400

What SGM said below. But outside of that just because of the person I am, I would be there for him emotionally. Suicide is huge in the Army and he all the support he can get while being realistic with him about his actions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2021 4:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 04:20:50 -0400

While each situation varies, this is what you can expect:
Local authorities will determine whether or not to prosecute him or have the commander do it.

If it's civilian court, expect he receives a GOMOR, is flagged until the court proceedings finish, and the command may still separate him.

If command prosecutes, it could be Art 15 up to a Court martial depending on the charges. If an Art 15 and reduction, his ETS will he changed to his new RCP, or he will he given 180 days to separate if he's already past the new RCP. 5 years for PFC 8 years for SPC.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 16 at 2021 8:03 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 08:03:04 -0400

The first thing I would ask is why he was in a fight.

There is such a thing, in my book, of doing the wrong thing (bar fight) for the right reasons (preventing rape, for instance). If, in the unlikely chance, that he was in that type of situation, where you can support his actions morally, I would go to fight for him. Fight assiduously against Art 15 or Court Martial based on the assault. Offer to testify in civilian court as a character witness, and if not that, at least provide a written character statement to the court. Work with him to schedule civilian court around training schedule as best as possible (but he will still need to take leave - this is *definitely* not a TDY/pass situation).

But that is *only* if he had a justifiable moral reason for the fight - which is not usually the case. And regardless of any of that, it doesn't excuse being at the bar. I would definitely recommend and support the Art 15 for violating the order.

If he did not have a good moral reason, I would be pushing for field grade Art 15, at the minimum, possibly CM depending on the severity of the fight/assault.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Aug 16 at 2021 6:55 PM

Cpl Vic Burk — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 18:55:03 -0400

Really nothing you can do except be there to support him emotionally. You can probably bet he will get an Article 15 for violating the order. Whether it is company grade or field grade it will most likely happen. Which one may depend on his service record up to this point. As the old saying goes, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." Just be there to help pick up the pieces.

Response by SFC Wendell Pruitt made Aug 16 at 2021 8:33 PM

SFC Wendell Pruitt — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:33:20 -0400

Ensure He understands his need for and the value of JAG and Civilian Legal Counsel, Ensure He understands the Commander has sole UCMJ discretion and any input from you is strictly in an advisory opinion based on personal knowledge of his past duty performance and personal conduct. Be prepared to provide Character reference within the Chain of Command as your positive or negative input will likely be sought and help shape the UCMJ outcome in the end. Keep chain of command informed as the Civilian side proceeds and ensure they have correct and complete information in a timely manner, document your advice and actions within Counseling sessions to avoid misunderstandings of intent or actions taken by you. Under no circumstances provide what could be taken as legal advice or provide a personal legal opinion, (ie: Double jeopardy or personal civil rights potentials)

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 16 at 2021 9:06 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:06:26 -0400

It's pretty much out of your hands- for the fight, I doubt JAG will help, probably need a civilian lawyer. FG 15- advise him if and when it comes go to JAG. You can counsel him on his actions, just say up to Command for punishment section. If he walks on water, you could advise him on mitigating cercomstances, but that is about it.

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Aug 16 at 2021 9:43 PM

SGT Ralph McClain — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:43:32 -0400

Or how many bar fights I was in when I was in the army quite a few. Still walking around with a knot in my head. Barfi to use a common with gi's or the army life private specialist sergeants and I know some few officers . Usually it's article 15 with restrictions. Bar fights will be commonly the army. I know when I was in fort Polk Louisiana what quite a few down there diseaseville.

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Aug 16 at 2021 9:53 PM

SGT Ralph McClain — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:53:38 -0400

How many of us fellow soldiers jarheads squids and fly boys haven't been in bar fights. I know I got my ass kicked a few times and kicked ass myself being younger usually go to court pay your fine or get locked up by the MPS. I've been in so many bar flights in diseaseville Louisiana fun time I had.

Response by SSG Keith Bodiford (Ret) made Aug 17 at 2021 12:41 AM

SSG Keith Bodiford (Ret) — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 00:41:55 -0400

Not sure and why he couldn’t go to the bar.

However, the legal stuff needs to play out if there’s no prosecution or he beats it there’s nothing there.

As far as the direct order to not go. You can push that immediately.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2021 2:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 14:17:31 -0400

Although the case could be a little different, situation can be similar. I had a Soldier who popped on his piss test in AIT. When I got him in my section, he turned out to be an outstanding Soldier. I counseled him and all my other Joe's every month, as required to do. When his case arrived to arrived to our unit, we were in an MP unit, he had to stand before the Provost Marshall (Bn. Cdr), the CSM & Cdr asked for his counseling file, to prove he was an excellent Soldier. In which he was. It saved his butt and saved him from losing rank and half his pay. So, what I'm telling you is that, his counseling will help save this Soldiers rear-end, IF the Soldier regrets what he did and seeks counseling of his own. That'll be your support of him, the rest and future actions will be on him.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2021 8:16 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:16:02 -0400

I was charged a number of years ago for simple assault and firearm charges. I wasn't under General Orders at the time and it occurred while I was off duty. Here's what I did
Let my leadership know
let my units Security Officer know as I maintain a clearance, and self reporting is the soldiers responsibility
and I Lawyered TF up.
I wound up beating my charges so the army really didn't care at all.
but, Article 92 is grounds for separation.
If you believe in him then stand by him.

Response by SSG Oscar Medina made Aug 19 at 2021 9:02 AM

SSG Oscar Medina — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:02:47 -0400

Try to support him and talk on his behalf to the command not to separate him but remember depending on how the proceeding go sometimes the command won’t be able to do anything

Response by SPC Collin Guizar made Aug 19 at 2021 9:43 AM

SPC Collin Guizar — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 09:43:42 -0400

I would FG him if you have to but I would assume with your support that the court would sweep it under the rug

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Aug 30 at 2021 12:08 PM

SGT Ralph McClain — Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:08:20 -0400

Yell at the phase of civilian judge being it was done on civilian property. Got to pay damages and whatever the judge requires our community service depending on how much damage they did. I know I've been in plenty of bar fights when I was in the young man in the army. And yes you will probably get a article 15 usually extra duty.

Response by SFC Dennis Cash made Aug 31 at 2021 10:17 AM

SFC Dennis Cash — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 10:17:24 -0400

Stand by him and give him advice the best way you can. If there are charges, let him face up to them and do what's right.
Suggest counseling and staying away from situations like that one.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Sep 13 at 2021 11:49 AM

TSgt David Olson — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:49:17 -0400

If the bar was “off limits” designation by the local command, he can receive punishment under the UCMJ. On the civilian side of the house he gets an arrest record. A misdemeanor or felony conviction, first offense, generally a fine and/or probation. If he has a security clearance this could be grounds to revoking that clearance. As his supervisor you have the obligation to closely monitor his behavior patterns. At the minimum restrict him to the company area, coupled with extra details. Do not let him think you are going to let him “off”, and that it’ll all be forgotten. Then the question is, is he mature enough to drink, obviously not, if chooses to get involved in a bar fight. Professional counseling is another option to be included with any of the above.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2021 8:58 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:58:35 -0400

1. Advise him to go see the JAG for legal assistance service for advice on both his civilian offense and it's military implications. He's still innocent until proven guilty, even though violating a GO to go to an off limits bar presents an obvious problem. (Is that what happened?)
2. Refer him to the Army Substance Abuse Program, especially if this is more than a one time alcohol related problem. Best for him if he self refers.
3. Counsel him that even though this behavior has generated a problem, he is still a soldier and responsible for current duties. I.e., he is to avoid creating future problems for himself. Along with this is how he is to do that.
4. Find out what the official unit policy is regarding releasing him to attend legal hearings in the civilian sector. I.e. act on what you know the policy is, not what you think it ought to be.