What advice would you give to encourage a young officer to hang in there with their Army career?

2019-01-20T18:59:50-05:00

***This question is posted on behalf of a civilian father (of a junior officer) who requested anonymity.***

My son, whose lifelong ambition was always to be an Army officer, appears to be concluding that he will leave the service after his obligation is up. Although from a military family, I did not serve myself (medical), so I can't speak from experience. I believe he is seen as successful by his leadership. He was ROTC/Nat'l Guard through college, and was made XO of his troop about the same time he was promoted to 1st Lt. - maybe six months ago. He works really long days and Saturdays as well. The discouragement he vocalizes to me is that so many people don't do what they are supposed to, the commands from up high don't make sense from his point of view (which he does admit is limited in the military) and, not surprisingly, the workload is staggering. I know from my experience in the corporate world that any young professional working the hours he says he does would be noted as a future star and would be getting promotions and a lot of positive feedback form leadership. He is a straight shooter, btw, rigorously honest and has always been a hardworker (Eagle Scout, 4.0 GPA in HS, High SATs, etc.) His Myers-Briggs personality profile even closely matches that of Military Officer! So - any advice a Dad could pass along to his son about this? I am worried that he is making a mistake and getting out of the thing that is really right for him. If/when he makes Captain how will things change? Thanks for any insight you can offer.

***Update***

The person who requested this be asked extends their thanks to everyone who responded. There have been a number of insightful answers that will better inform his advice to his son. This feedback has been very helpful to him.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 7:58 PM

2019-01-20T19:58:27-05:00

LTC Kevin B. I only served four years but I worked long and hard hours during my four years. I loved the Marine Corps but was disgusted that the Marine Corps was not doing enough to clean up the drug problem, which they later addressed. When I was discharged, I worked at a chemical plant as an operator while I obtained my degree. With my degree I started a 33 year civilian career where I worked very long hours and weekends. My job was stressful, direction from higher up did not make sense a lot of times, but I stayed with it. The reason that I stayed was that I loved my career and thought I was doing meaningful work.

As mentioned by MSG (Anonymous), the advice that I would offer to this young man is to find a career where you love the work. Long hours comes with the territory, and you will always have bosses with stupid ideas.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 8:44 PM

2019-01-20T20:44:13-05:00

Soldiering isn’t for everyone. Long hours, staggering workload, confusing directives...NEVER going to change.

His last name could be Abrams, he could be Summa Cum Laude from Harvard, he could have every badge the Boy Scouts hand out, he can be a hard worker, etc. Ultimately doesn’t matter. He’s working a lot of hours, but not receiving a lot of promotions, positive feedback, or being told how big of a star he is? Honestly, did he expect otherwise?

The best advice is that the Army offers modest benefits for a relatively thankless job. The more you standout, the more work they pile on you. The Army is very much “what have you done for me lately, and what can you do for me tomorrow.” And once a soldier is determined to have little value, the Army moves on from that soldier. Soldiering isn’t for everyone.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jan 21 at 2019 6:37 AM

2019-01-21T06:37:50-05:00

I don't entirely follow who generated that, I perceive what you'd said, that it was from his father, evidently, though, of course, since he wants anonymity, one can only proceed from your description. Which svc one is in, I'd found, is totally irrelevant, all of them manifest essentially the same basic attributes stereotypically in terms of how members are expected to function day to day. So, given that I'm quite sure you must've given him your own thoughts and insights, I can only give you, to give to him, mine, such as they are. God knows, as I've said on here many, many times, I made more mistakes than might seem humanly feasible to make, and invented new ones besides. I went in the wrong way, doing the wrong work for the wrong people, for all the wrong reasons, and found myself in an environment for which, though I'd been relatively well prepared for technically, I had zeromexpectaton of being part of, and, as a result, compounding all that, found myself totally hamstrung by having virtually zero clue what was actually expected of me day to day. I couldn't switch assignments, was told more than once to shut up and go back t work, was told no to every request I made for specific training with other active duty units I'd sought to try to help me accli!ate, was told to learn OJT, and, in short, did every conceivable thing wrong, for at least the first year and a half, till I finally managed to get placed with a civil servant over me, another little gem I hadn't expected to encounter, civil servants supervising active duty, and quite literally had my head slammed into pavement, effectively, to get me to listen, and understand what was actually expected of me. Add to that, in my third to fourth year, I sat with our unit CO, a Vietnam War hero who'd received the DFC for, as I'd learned later, among other tings, flying 150 combat missions in an O-2 as a FAC, and had just made O-7, though I knew him as an O-6, give me a tongue lashing that left !e a limp dishrag as I walked out of the room where we'd been speaking. Gradually, over a very, very protracted period of time, I slowly morphed from a social inept, to someone exhibiting some real promise, albeit, as matters turned out, way too late to do me, ultimately, any real good. What followed was a virtual nightmare the likes of which have echoed and re-echoed in my memory for quite literally three decades, that have affected me, my familyz, my wife, her family, my friends, virtually everyone, in every effort I made to try to succeed thereafter. Now, in saying that, the sun shines, the world revolves, time marches on, however, trying to get my family to even remotely comprehend all that happened to me has been a virtual impossibility, other than my next younger brother, who'd been USMMA Kings Point, and had his own comparable aggravations, prompted by our Dad, who'd raised not of us to go in, not having even the vaguest clue what he was getting either of us into, thus, our next younger fraternal twin brothers had virtually zero comprehension, as our Dad realized his mistake with us, and didn't repeat it with them (he'd been enlisted Navy, always dogged by having gotten out and regretting it later on, aside from all the later mistakes he'd made thereafter himself). So, all that being said, here is, basically, what I took away from all that, that I think might translate to the problem you pose: I was Army ROTC 3 yrs before going USAF OTS instead. I was driven to excel, a virtual study machine, constantly, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and yet all that ambition did me, ultimately, virtually zero good. There are certain tings all svcs expect of junior commissioned, additional duties, crazy things like fund raising, charity drives, being tasked to look into car accidents where I was assigned, company grade officers council (CGOC), it wasn't a matter of confusing directives for me, I was doing highly technical work, and found I was expected to subordinate my own wishes, hopes, and ambitions, to the greater good of what I was expected to do for my unit, in fact, that point was quite literally almost beaten, constantly, into my skull. Add to the fact I was a total social inept, a virtual clod, if you will, and I had on my hands a recipe for disaster virtually unequalled in the annals of any junior commissioned in any service, I assure you. The son of the one you sent in that material from likely is expected to get, minimum, his masters, organize his time effectively, do his prof mil educ (PME), also quite literally pounded into his skull, all the while expected to train his unit, deal with his NCOs, absorb all their personal problems, and at the same time manage to cope with his own personal dilemmas. I don't care one whit about his being an Eagle Scout, his high SAT numbers, or his Meyer Birggs scores, all of that means total bupkas, zero, goose egg. What matters is his ability to slog, continuously, through the inner workings of a large bureaucratic machine, and not drown or get pulled under by its rip tides, for the simple reason that, in a svc, any svc, nothing, ZERO, ever goes as planned, PERIOD. Anyone who joins thinking it's all gonna go as expected also has delusions of the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Claus, all total garbage, never gonna happen, no way, no how. Doesn't matter of he's in, or out, active duty, Guard Reserve, civilian, and until he gets it right in a svc, once he's in it, his leaving is simply gonna color his outlook in anything he does after as a civilian, which is gonna be, inevitably, an anticlimax, for the simple reason that the pressures of svc life have zero resemblance to civilian life, I spent five years doing industrial stuff after I got out, which I also had zero business doing, so I spent 12 yrs all told in it, or around it, and none of it where I'd wanted or hoped to be, which is, unfortunately, now, why I'm total perm disabled as a result. Other than an actual war, which I never got to be in, though I volunteered for Desert Shield/Storm, I wasn't used, I've seen just about every facet of svc existence one can imagine, as well as having trained in sevl VA hospitals before we shut my doctoral level allied health license, also a total bust. So, here's my thought: if he's still in, if it's at all salvageable, then let him try to salvage it, for the simple reason that, of he walks away from it now, midstream, he's always gonna wonder "What if?' Its always gonna nag at him, just as it's always nagged at me. There's a phrase that seems apt here, " Netter the devil you know," not because svc life is NAD, but for the simple reason he's already familiar with it, and has gone through all the training and exposure to be able to slog through it further. Honestly, if I were him, truly, I'd immerse myself in what's expected of him, constantly, till he gets good at wading through all the attendant garbage, as I had to. In my case, I nearly succeeded, if I'd been handled right, or, at minimum, hadn't been such a total social clod, I might've actually succeeded. In his case, he see!s, at minimum, to actually be succeeding. I can't begin to tell all of!you the sheer number of times I was made to stay till 3 AM, only to get a tongue lashing as a total incompetent the next day, despite my nest efforts. Trust me, I saw everything possible go wrong, and from your description, his boat isn't nearly as close to capsizing, honestly, those are my true appapraisals, it's got nothing to do with talent neynd a certain point, it's got to do with the ability to give unrequited 100% total enthusiastic cooperation constantly, and slog through till that enthusiasm is finally recognized, if he's talented, that'll show through, it's his willingness to put up with the day to day slog of his existence, enthusiastically, that is what would REALLY get him noticed, trust !e, been there, dome that (BTDT), or, at any rate, tried to, albeit, in many instances, way too late. If you all wanna gave me your thoughts, I'd be most eager to hear them, however, in all candor, if jes gonna be motivated to stay, trust years of experiential exposure on my part, that level of sloggng enthusiasm is what is REALLY gonna give him the nest chamce of success, honest, I hope that helps, for whatever it might be worth, I'd be most eager to know what all of you think of my thought processes as expressed here, as I said, I hope all that helps, in any event, honest.

Response by SPC Jerry Jones made Jan 21 at 2019 7:41 AM

2019-01-21T07:41:34-05:00

I was enlisted for 7 1/2 years, and then got out. Looking back, I should have stayed in. The B.S. I got tired of in the Army was the same, if not worse, in the civilian world. The civilian world doesn't care about your military experience, even if they claim they do. You will have a hard time finding a job using your MOS and usually end up in basic crap jobs...unless you are one of the extremely rare few who can snag a GS job working with the military as a civilian.

Unless he has a solid job already lined up, then I would say to stay in. The old saying "once a soldier, always a soldier" rings true. No civilian job of any kind will give you the feeling you had when you were enlisted, and the civilian world will drive you nuts once you get out. They just don't get it. From my experiences, 99% of the civilian workers I have worked with were unmotivated, extremely lazy and have no pride in their work. I finally gave up and went to farming just so I didn't have to deal with any more civilians. Now, all accomplishments (and failures) are mine alone, with no bosses or lazy workers to annoy me.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 21 at 2019 11:40 AM

2019-01-21T11:40:10-05:00

- assumptions: this Officer is AD at his first duty station.
- missing: does derive satisfaction or enjoyment from any other facets?
- being an XO is thankless. It concentrates all the “adulting” in one spot. Supply, maintenance, budget, cleaning up messes, USR, etc.
- I too was disillusioned as a senior LT. My S1 told me the advice his Dad gave him. Don’t decide the Army in one duty assignment. As an officer, command a company before you leave. He’ll go to the advanced course next, get a break, focus on the art/science for a while. New faces, new places. He’ll hit the next post and work toward command. If he doesn’t like it after command, he’s got the experience for a resume and make his way to the exit. The whole time he can be financially planning his exit.
- Army benefit: PCS churn rotates people. Someone you don’t like? Either you or your nemesis is likely to go in a year. Civilian world doesn’t. There is no escape from toxic managers.
- he is about to hit a stretch of Staff Officer time punctuated by Command, PME, possible grad school, and KD assignments. After Company Command he has potential for broadening.
- is there a functional area that may interest him? That could be an answer to like the Army, but don’t like the branch work I do.

If the Army isn’t for you, then please go where you can thrive.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 28 at 2020 11:04 PM

2020-02-28T23:04:18-05:00

Is he still in?