What alternative forms of punishment have you used to discipline your soldiers without ending their careers?

2017-05-21T18:55:24-04:00

As only 1% of the nation will serve, a good soldier is worth his occasional screw-up yet in the modern military where a disciplinary action can end a career, and certain staff pukes delight in ending them, what creative disciplinary measures have you used at the squad, platoon level to punish a soldier without ending his career? My discipline of choice was scrubbing 5 tons trucks on your weekends.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 7:02 PM

2017-05-21T19:02:39-04:00

SGT Bryan O'Reilly have them do what they are told to do the first time and not do something worthy of an Article 15. People have to accept the consequences for their actions. If it is warrants an Article 15 let them have it.

The funniest extra duty I have seen though was someone scrubbing the metal rug guard on the steps on our CJOC with a tooth brush. I was so caught off guard when I walked in.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-05-21T20:14:48-04:00

None I am an NCO I do not punish Soldier commanders do that.

Response by 1SG Steve Grant made May 21 at 2017 8:51 PM

2017-05-21T20:51:57-04:00

Letter of reprimand EER statements

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made May 21 at 2017 10:02 PM

2017-05-21T22:02:10-04:00

I probably wouldn't make it today, I was too much a protector and not enough of a punisher. A 1SG once told me I was more of an accomplice than I was a boss LOL But we, the cadre of the 1st and 2nd duty stations they serve in are who really shape these boys into men and men to warriors. We are not given perfect clay but with patience and foresight, we can shape outstanding soldiers. All great stuff, very informative Thank you for all your input.
Bayonet!
<3

Response by SN Greg Wright made May 21 at 2017 10:24 PM

2017-05-21T22:24:45-04:00

The aft Bosun's locker, or a convenient void, seemed to always be changing the attitudes of those who made it out (definitely scathed.)

Response by LT Brad McInnis made May 22 at 2017 12:19 AM

2017-05-22T00:19:15-04:00

I used a very simple decision process... was there malice intent involved? So, if a sailor screwed up but it was because they didn't know better, forgot, or were rushed because we as a command couldn't plan, then I brought them in for a little informal counseling. As a Chief Engineer, I had a lot of jobs that always needed doing that I could have them do. I eventually pushed this kind of stuff down to the DIVO's and Chiefs after they understood what my boundaries were.

If malice was involved, then they went straight to the formal disciplinary system. We always took into account the sailor's entire career before punishment. I never felt that a sailors career should be screwed up by one single mistake (most of them anyway, some were automatic Captain's Mast).

This only worked because I kept my upper chain of command informed, and they had similar ideas. I also kept my Chiefs in the loop and got their input.

I also believed, that if a sailor screwed up badly, and went to Captain's Mast, that after punishment was served, then they had a fresh slate. I never carried a "grudge" so to speak. If they served their time then let's get back to work. I found that sailors were a lot less likely to get in trouble if they knew you were fair, tough but fair.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2017 12:30 AM

2017-05-22T00:30:51-04:00

You would first have to revise your terminology! If you are a squad leader or Platoon sergeant you don't have the authority to impose "Punishment" you can only recommend it, I think the proper word you are looking for is "Corrective Training". There are a lot of techniques that can be used while trying to correct an infraction, however it should fit the infraction so the Service members gains a clear understanding of what he/she did wrong. What was the infraction?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2017 9:55 AM

2017-05-22T09:55:29-04:00

I like essays. What ever the infraction would be (i.e., late for formation, missing movement, etc.), I would counsel them and assign as corrective action a 500 word essay, written in pen, print, and free of errors. And the topic would be why are having to write the essay, what kind of ramifications to the mission there are when they are late/miss movement, and what kinds of ramifications they could face. Since my unit is Reserves, I don't expect to have that essay to me the next morning, so I give them til the next Battle Assembly. If, by some chance, they turn in their essay that did not meet the parameters, then they are counseled again and then given a 1000 word essay. To date, no one in my unit that have been given the essay assignment, has had to do the 1000 word essay.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made May 22 at 2017 11:43 AM

2017-05-22T11:43:08-04:00

I guess it depends on severity. My punishments for screwing up were nothing too elaborate, I just got the dog shit smoked outta me. Why is this so wrong these days?! Granted, nothing I did that was wrong was ever malicious or stupendously stupid, but unless laying the groundwork to boot a guy out or if the offense is so grave, corrective training works more miracles than all administrative punishments ever will. IMHO

But I digress.

Outside of a vigorous smoke session, which I think works for all, sometimes you have to look at the individual. If they hate hard work, give 'em hard work; I've employed that. If their free time is precious, taking that away, it can be an effective way to deal with a situation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2017 1:16 PM

2017-05-22T13:16:45-04:00

Years ago when working at Range Control Graf, we would run CMTC Live fire. As NCOIC of Range Control for the live fire I had my range NCO's clear the range, meaning a physical drive from Range Control Graf around the ranges ensuring all were clear. This would happen before we went Wet. The first run my SSG from Arty branch arrived 1:30 Hr late, delaying the TF from going wet, as we didn't know the range status and couldn't get in contact with the range NCO as he didn't turn on his FM. Believe me looking at a Full Bull and 2 LTC's and telling him we cannot go wet at the appointed time and not knowing when we can go wet was not fun at all!! The reason for him being late was PP Planning/laziness on his part, not taking the time to figure out how long it would take to perform the appointed task and building in time for delays. so he was late starting out. At that time UCMJ could very well be a career ender so I requested (as it was a high profile FUBAR and my OIC was upset) and was given permission for Corrective Training in lue of UCMJ. He ran that route every day twice a day during that live fire and stayed out at the field site. I took something he could never get back, his time. He learned to estimate how long a mission would take and plan appropriately. I pretty sure he couldn't stand me after that, but he was never late again, and was always reachable.

Response by SFC Dennis A. made May 22 at 2017 3:58 PM

2017-05-22T15:58:30-04:00

I found that having to give up some free time/time off was much more effective that taking money. I could never figure out how taking half a months pay for two months to punish a soldier for indebtedness fixed that situation. Most young soldiers have more money to spend however they want then they have ever had before. Loosing some time and freedom means much more than money to them so they will remember it longer and hopefully learn a good lesson before it reaches the need to peruse UCMJ action.

Response by SGT Peter Hayes made May 22 at 2017 4:28 PM

2017-05-22T16:28:30-04:00

had a PVT cut the grass with his fingernail clipper for extra duty for a few weeks and no article was needed

Response by MSgt Brenda Dillard Schmitz made May 23 at 2017 10:36 AM

2017-05-23T10:36:43-04:00

When the screw up was failing to pay attention to detail, one time I stabbed the wall with a ball point pen a whole bunch of times, then had him count it out...and then verify twice. But I found that creativity is key to my method, as it lets them know I am consistently taking individual circumstance and traits into my decisions. Doesn't work for all, but did for me.
When failing to follow AFI or other reg, I often chose to have them write essays with summation, cross reference, impact on mission and personnel, and a personalized motive to support said reg. 5 spellcheck fails, and you do it over - attention to detail.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made May 23 at 2017 1:34 PM

2017-05-23T13:34:41-04:00

I had troops in on weekends stripping, waxing, buffing shop floors, painting the shop, doing a complete written inventory on all accountable supply items, the whole idea was, if you fuck up and take up my time, I get to take up your time. Written LOCs or LORs are just a pain in the ass for most troops I had. Besides, when I was a young troop, what do you think was done to me?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made May 23 at 2017 2:36 PM

2017-05-23T14:36:01-04:00

An Article 15 should be the leader's last resort. Not to get into telling an "old war story", let me share my experience with.

While stationed at Ft Huachuca, I had a Soldier who was transferred to us from another company because he was deemed to be "untrainable". First off, I saw the transfer as more of a failure of the NCO support channel of that unit. Then I sat down with him and we talked. I noticed that he was having some of the same issues that I was facing in Korea following my 2003 deployment to Iraq. So I made some notes and shared them with my 1SG. We scheduled some visits with the doctors and he was diagnosed with PTSD as a result of his deployment. I told him I would still hold him to the same standard as everyone else; PTSD was and is not a "get out of jail free card". Over the next few days, we still had issues with him, mainly being late/oversleeping. Some thought I should have gone after an Article 15 but I sat down with my 1SG and together we came up with a good corrective action plan. After several days of having to report to the CQ every day including on the weekends at certain times, he started to be on time and eventually start performing as we expected.

Sometimes the alternative corrective action takes some time and thinking but I think if the Soldier shows that he/she is worth the effort, there are always alternative methods to help them.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made May 23 at 2017 7:57 PM

2017-05-23T19:57:13-04:00

(Bringing levity to a serious conversation)

Lol! I'm getting really good ideas here!! LOL!!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made May 23 at 2017 10:39 PM

2017-05-23T22:39:34-04:00

SGT Bryan O'Reilly NTC used to have '4 man Huts' and communal latrines. Fire Barrels were stratically placed between rows of Huts. Barrels devoid of water were no problem! Miscreants enjoyed filling those barrels with butt cans of water from the latrine at the end of the row of Huts.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2017 10:46 PM

2017-05-23T22:46:30-04:00

I work in a facility with panic buttons. When pressed, a silent alarm alerts the MP station. I come out of my office from doing admin work to find two MP'S hands on holsters clearing the lobby. Turns out one of the BMM'S had no idea what it was and pressed it out of curiousity. After defusing the situation and getting the "All Clear" sent to every emergency response agency on post, I had an amazing counseling statement for her. She was also thereafter the designated "Active Shooter" master trainer.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made May 25 at 2017 11:00 PM

2017-05-25T23:00:21-04:00

Well the easiest sort of punishment was scrubbing the head because it was always nasty. But most of the time I tried to have a punishment that gave the Marine time to reflect on what they did. I had a group of Marines go out and get tattoos one weekend. One of them of course was out of regs. So I had each of them write me a paper on the current tattoo regulations, the impact this could have on their career, and the possible ramifications from going to a less than reputable tattoo parlor. When they were finished, I read them all, and then we had a group discussion about the paper as well as the potential downsides of acting without thinking first. I didn't want to doom Marines new to the Fleet before they've even been given the opportunity to prove themselves. But I also couldn't let them get away unscathed.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made May 31 at 2017 12:44 PM

2017-05-31T12:44:16-04:00

What alternative forms of punishment have you used to discipline your soldiers without ending their careers? Well hypothetically when I was the town cop down in Quantico, Virginia enlisted people were told “Ray always works Friday and Saturday nights and you are really trashed go over to his police car and tell him Ray I am trashed AGAIN!” He will give you a ride back to your barracks. If you pop your cookies in his police car you have to clean it up.” If on the other hand you are trashed and he catches you trying to drive your car when you are trashed Ray will take you back to your barracks and take your id card and have coffee with the Sargent-Major and since you have excess energy it will place in constructive channels. I have been introduced to other Marines and they have looked at my Marines and said “You mean he was real I thought it was a sea story.”

Response by SP5 Hank Vandenburgh PhD made Jul 4 at 2019 5:30 PM

2019-07-04T17:30:40-04:00

Big issue. An Article 15 would brand you. I got one in Korea because an SFC didn’t like me. They follow you.

Response by CW2 Michael MacInerney made Mar 20 at 2021 11:51 AM

2021-03-20T11:51:14-04:00

I conducted evening inspections of rooms or uniforms and sometimes required a soldier to perform a work detail one evening.