What are a commander's options if SM fails numerous promotion boards, still has a service obligation, and he does not want to deploy to NTC?

2018-12-04T14:22:50-05:00

SM has failed numerous promotion boards, has attained Master's Degree and has two years left on his Army obligation. SM tells company commander he does not want to deploy with his unit to a CRC rotation to NTC and he wants to start preparing to exit service. What are the company commander's options?
My recommendation to the commander is to have SM's first line supervisor begin capturing his performance on 4856 and establish a pattern of behavior IOT possibly chapter the SM.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2018 2:43 PM

2018-12-04T14:43:42-05:00

The best way to start preparing to exit the service with two years remaining is to fulfill his obligations. No one wants to go to NTC. Join the club.

Sending people on their way with a chapter just because they no longer want to do the Army thing sets a bad precedent.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2018 2:57 PM

2018-12-04T14:57:03-05:00

SM clearly stated that he is giving up. As a command team, it is our obligation to assist all Soldiers regardless of the situation. However, when stated, SM is giving up on the Army, that SM could possibly be a problem to the team.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 4 at 2018 3:27 PM

2018-12-04T15:27:48-05:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member I think you know the answer already.
Task, give lawful orders, inform, and remind the SM, That the uniform tag opposite their name tag, the US ARMY one....
Also stands for Uncle Same Aint Released Me Yet.
Do all that while recording his successes and failures...praising the one, counseling both as needed.

He has only two choices...well Id only offer two..... giving in to his wants by way of a tantrum was not my way...

So the SM can Soldier on till terminal leave date.
OR
Soldier on though Extra Duty and daily duties assigned until his Terminal leave date.

And YES he needs to go to NTC.. even if you don't use him in the unit line number assigned position... the unit will be tasked for more then a few SM to do "other duties" Would you rather pull a good SM from the platoon to clean latrines and dump trash cans, sort trash for ammo, guard the wash bay, clean the wash bay oil/grease pits? Or say....Someone who needs a reminder USARMY

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Dec 4 at 2018 3:44 PM

2018-12-04T15:44:08-05:00

First I would advise the SM that there are consequences for his refusual to soldier which I would recommend the commander start Chapter procedures and discharge him as unfit for service.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 4 at 2018 5:15 PM

2018-12-04T17:15:27-05:00

Use him as an example.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2018 6:47 PM

2018-12-04T18:47:33-05:00

Counsel Soldier first on any statements that are contrary to "good order and discipline". Article 15 if warranted or for failure to comply to corrective action in counseling. reduction in rank and half pay for two months. Continue to build case for removal from Service, with an "Other than Honorable" discharge. Explain to the SM that this is the path SM is on with current attitude/ actions.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Dec 4 at 2018 9:40 PM

2018-12-04T21:40:20-05:00

Thinks they can sham out of duty for the next 2 years? What kind of Army do we have in 2018 (almost '19) that there are SMs who even think to try and pull this kind of thing?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 5 at 2018 2:55 PM

2018-12-05T14:55:42-05:00

Cdr can start chapter proceedings- the SM's wishes are immaterial!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2018 4:21 PM

2018-12-05T16:21:12-05:00

The first thing to do is bar him from reenlistment due to repeated failure of the promotion board, and lack of promotion potential. The second thing is to issue formal orders for movement.
It sounds as if the service member believes he can be a great burden on the unit if he decides, and that it is in your best interest to leave him. This would be the time to educate him that he can leave the army with a less than honorable discharge, paying back his bonus, or student loan repayment that he likely has, and any GI Bill he may be entitled to.
Usually, when the commander is faced with one of these guys, they basically come to the agreement that as long as the service member continues to perform they will leave with their education benefits. But the first slip up and the service member will find themselves with an Article 15 and a further degraded discharge.
The service member will probably never be a contributing member of the military or any leader. But, if you give them the two choices, the carrot or the stick, they usually take the carrot. The carrot is they ETS honorably. The stick is taking all their pay, their rank, their time, and their benefits.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 5 at 2018 10:54 PM

2018-12-05T22:54:09-05:00

Didn't see much from the Skipper community so I'll relate how I operated. My CoC (portion that drills directly down to the sore spot) was always on the same page or the XO and SEL would be in my office about it. The notion is to identify early, process to a conclusion quickly, and move on with life. Decision is with the SM who enjoys or suffers the relevant consequences. If the SM insists on a Bitch at the CO Session, it happens quick and I force a decision which, depending on the direction, takes about a week to go sufficiently downhill and typically longer to climb up. Keep in mind that good Skippers make business decisions, not bleeding heart decisions. We have too much mission, limited resources, etc. to be a campground for aimless wanderers. The "set the example" notion shouldn't be the primary focus because that just highlights the badass aspect which you don't want to be ever prominent. By working as a CoC group, you demonstrate to the rest of the troopers that you are effective and focus on the right things, including bringing them home alive. Good people don't like to be dragged down and the more you clean up their working environment, the better. Been there, done that. The exMILs who likely still hate my guts can hate all they want. Just not in my Service.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2018 2:11 PM

2018-12-12T14:11:55-05:00

I'd see if you can put him on a garbage detail through division, such as range ops. To my memory, that'll allow you to pull him from your rosters and allow you to get a replacement for a worthless asset.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 11:31 PM

2019-12-01T23:31:06-05:00

White Cell

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Dec 2 at 2019 11:27 AM

2019-12-02T11:27:10-05:00

Document, communicate, train until he separates.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2019 1:56 PM

2019-12-03T13:56:50-05:00

Tell him you don’t care if he wants to go or not. He can prepare all he wants on his time. Meantime he’s going to continue to work. If not, counsel and handle accordingly. Nobody cares about guys masters degree with no experience and a general discharge.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 11:28 PM

2020-07-25T23:28:57-04:00

Reserves of Active Duty?

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 11:31 PM

2020-07-25T23:31:10-04:00

I think you just found the commander or 1SG’s driver. Good way to get in the Soldiers head and find out where the disconnect is. Some empathy may go a long way. Getting to know the Soldier May give you insight.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2022 3:08 PM

2022-12-31T15:08:40-05:00

First, counsel the Soldier and ensure that he is aware that he must fulfill all of his service obligations including deployment s and training such as NTC.
If this doesn't work, it is immaterial what the Soldiers wishes are-send him to NTC.
As stated above, document his performance and if it warrants it-chapter him out.