What are some options for a college graduate to serve, given no prior military experience?

Malachi Kirkpatrick — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:05:39 -0500

Rally Point Community,

I have a question regarding the best post-bachelors degree route for a person interested in serving. I have considered serving in the past. But, I decided to finish my bachelor's degree first. I've seen posts on here from several years ago, and I apologize if this is redundant. I figure standards adjust annually. I did not realize GPA was so important. I had a 2.0 when I graduated on December 12th, 2020. I am 26 years old.

For context, I had a challenging family issue to resolve and worked for two and a half years before returning to finish. I received A's/ B's once I returned. Would this context matter to a recruiter? Does anyone in the community have any recommendations or advice? I want to serve and experience the good and the bad. Build my leadership, communications, and other skills. The branch doesn't matter to me as long as I can achieve and become better than I am today. Given all of the above, do I have options, or should I just remain a civilian?

Thanks for any help,

Malachi Kirkpatrick

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2020 1:14 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:14:00 -0500

Best bet is talk to a officer recruiter if that is the direction you are thinking. Enlisted recruiters will steer you the enlisted direction. You won’t know until you ask. But you can also go enlisted continue your education then go officer.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Dec 29 at 2020 1:14 PM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:14:18 -0500

Talk to a recruiter and find out what your likes and strengths are. There are many career paths/options and I'm confident you will find what you are looking for -- good luck

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2020 1:17 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:17:03 -0500

What do you want to do? Even without a degree, plenty of people serve. In general, with a degree you have the added option of serving as an officer. The question is if you want to serve, how and in what branch. You are still young enough to join the military.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2020 1:17 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:17:12 -0500

Malachi Kirkpatrick Do your research first. See what each military branch has to offer, including the Coast Guard. Are you thinking about enlisted or becoming an officer? Decide the branch and jobs that you are interested in and then talk to a recruiter or recruiters.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2020 1:54 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:54:56 -0500

First, decide what you want to be or do in life. For USMC Officer find a Officer Selection Officer (OSO), for enlisted talk to a USMC Recruiter. I put one BS grad in enlisted, around your age. He had studied STEM stuff and wanted a career in robotics. By his admission he wanted a challenge (note 1) as well. I got him a solid Avionics contract due to near maxing ASVAB and a degree. No idea if he later went Officer, but there are several options for higher degrees while serving. Considering the times now for robotics, that was a good call he made over 30 yrs. ago.

Edit: (note 1) Marine boot is no joke, but OCS is no cake walk either. Even harder in fact, in some ways, due to competition and Command ethos of training. One trains followers to develop into leaders, the rest have to be able to lead out the gate. Don't take either lightly. The other services offer much the same, and greater variety. The decision should be based on your plans for the future, your goals and the best way to get there. Malachi Kirkpatrick

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Dec 29 at 2020 1:56 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:56:53 -0500

There are plenty of ways to serve but between the different branches and jobs within each, it's hard for anyone to provide specific recommendations without knowing your interests and professional goals. The simplest thing you can do it walk down to the local recruiter and tell them to help you enlist.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 29 at 2020 3:01 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 15:01:50 -0500

Malachi Kirkpatrick Provided you are medically, morally, and physically qualified, here are my recommendations that are Army centric. I will allow others from other branches to chime in on their branch:
- 26, sheesh, still young. Plenty of time to enter service and "get somewhere". You need to pay attention to age cutoffs for commissioning which last check, without AD time waiver, is 34.
- You need to pick RC or AD right off the bat. Otherwise it is not something you can change your mind about until your current contract is up. There are some very specific, lesser included cases, but to summarize, all are a pain in the a$$ to do.
- You could technically go enlisted first, then seek a commission, but my concern would be aging out of commissioning. If you enlist, get promoted and become a technical expert in a field, competing for appointment as a warrant office could be your thing.
- ARNG or USAR (RC): if you are looking to serve locally and do not really want to do this as a primary career, you can enlist or seek a commission (officer) in the reserve component RC. The advantage in the USAR is you are federal, which is important as an officer. There will be a tug of war between your personal/professional life and military duties and advancement. All in all, doable, as many do it for 20-40 years.
- Active Duty: this is an all in thing. You could enlist or you could seek a commission. Enlisted: step 1 walk into the recruiter and see what your options are. Take the ASVAB. This will put you in boots fastest. Waiting on a specific MOS may take longer. While technically possible, it is more difficult to compete for OCS from AD than to compete as a civilian applicant. Either route will look at your GPA. Not impossible, just hard.

Routes to a commission:
- Do a masters degree and do the abbreviated version of ROTC. This is all in and you'll have to contract at the jump.
- Apply for State or Federal OCS, federal would be best as you are federally recognized off the bat. State OCS is for ARNG. Federal is either USAR or AD, although I have seen ARNG candidates go this route.
- Get ordained. Seek a direct commission as a Chaplain
- Go to law school and pass the bar. Seek direct commission as an Army Judge Advocate (Lawyer)
- If you have a Cyber security background, I think Army Cyber is still looking at Direct Commissions for those with commercial experience. I am out of my depth with this one.
- I read yesterday that Medical Service Corps 70 series officers are no longer being direct commissioned. Seek out an AMEDD recruiter to get the double truth - Ruth. NOT the home town recruiter.
- The ship has sailed for service academies....although there could be a loop hole for Kings Point if you desire to be a Mariner.

Most of the "leadership" civilian industry is looking for is NCO (Sergeants) and Company Grade leadership (Warrants, Lieutenants and Captains). Field Grade leadership (Colonels and Majors) tend to get people stirred up and not in a good way. Believe it or not people get pissed when you tear apart their "strategic plan" which is little more than a laundry list and some window dressing.

What field interests you?

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Dec 29 at 2020 3:22 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 15:22:29 -0500

Take an ASVAB and go speak to a recruiter.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Dec 29 at 2020 3:54 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 15:54:36 -0500

How in Christ's name does one graduate with a 2.0?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Dec 29 at 2020 4:04 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:04:36 -0500

I see three paths you might take: Active Duty, Reserve Component (Reserve or National Guard), or civilian employee. Here's my thoughts.

Each of the 6 Armed Services (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, Space Force) post requirements to be an officer on their web site. You must be a US Citizen. You'll have to pass a physical (waivers to some medical conditions are possible). You'll have to test to evaluate many things including general math, language, and other factors. Minimum scores to be an officer apply. All Services currently require a bachelor's degree. There is an age limit. I think it's 39. Pay and benefits are also described on the web sites. Pay for each pay grade is the same in all the services. You will also earn 30 days paid leave each year. Do the research.

Active duty means you are an Officer of the United States, 24 X 7 X 365. You work every day at your assigned duties for the US military. You will be trained for the duties you are expected to accomplish. First, you'll attend Officer Candidate School (OCS) to learn basic military leadership and management. Next you will usually attend a specialty school based on the job the Service wants you to do. Examples include Supply Officer School, Maintenance Officer School, Infantry Officer Basic Leadership Course, and hundreds more. You'll then be assigned to a job in a unit to start your career.

Reserve Component Duty is similar to active duty, but you will be expected to work as an Officer of the United States part-time. You will go through much of the same training as an active duty officer. After training you will be assigned to a Reserve or National Guard unit. Reserve Component units train (also known as "drill") once a month on a weekend and for about two weeks a year. Most private and public sector employers support their employees who are in the Reserve Component. They often grant special "military leave" for the drill and two-week training. Reserve component units may be called to active duty for many reasons including overseas deployments to combat or non-combat locations, response to natural disasters (Guard Units), support in the US during National Emergencies. The good news is a Reserve Component position allows you to also have a civilian career and generally more stable family life.

Civilian employees of the Department of Defense and the Services fill thousands of types of jobs in the US and overseas. Civilian Employees provide all manner of Service and Support jobs. They can be employees in almost every military specialty except direct combat roles. USAJobs.com is the gateway to civilian employment.

I strongly recommend you talk to recruiters from each of the 6 Armed Services, the Army, Navy, and Air Force Reserve, and the Army and Air National Guard. (That's about 11 different recruiters.) Be sure to research each Service's requirements before you meet with any recruiter. DO NOT volunteer to enlist immediately. Hold out for the opportunity to be an officer. Waiting a year or so to go to OCS is much better than a 4-year enlistment and still not being able to get into OCS. My guess is at least one and maybe several will offer you the opportunity to be an officer. Evaluate the offers in light of your personal goals. Consider the accession date, the training offered, the final job placement, and the mid-term opportunities for assignment and advancement (you'll be agreeing to serve for 4 to 10 years depending on your specialty and training).

Response by Malachi Kirkpatrick made Dec 29 at 2020 4:06 PM

Malachi Kirkpatrick — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:06:11 -0500

I wanted to thank all of you for both your service and fantastic feedback. Many mentioned contacting a recruiter, and I have already done so for the five branches and AR and ANG. I had a conversation today with a Navy Petty Officer. He noted that my GPA was too low, and I wouldn't qualify for OCS (equivalent). So, as not to waste time, I reached out to this community. When I was in college, my primary interest was in international relations and security studies. The job that I thought might most be relatable to that would be military intelligence or cybersecurity. I have a liberal arts degree but I began the Python (coding language) certification process last week.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 29 at 2020 4:58 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:58:37 -0500

I firmly believe it's a no go:
- 2.0 is not competitive at all. I higly beleive they will not consider extenuating circumstances.
- My OCS class had one off the street candidate. The rest were prior service.

For these reasons you will not get an OCS slot.

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made Dec 29 at 2020 5:29 PM

MAJ Anne McGee — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:29:59 -0500

You have many choices for service, Active Duty, Reserves and National Guard. The easiset to get into will likely be the National Guard, if they have open slots. You need to pick a Branch and have an idea of where your interests lie. Being more Army centric, these are the requirements for OCS as a civilian, https://tinyurl.com/y8mnnjg9. :
Must be:
A U.S. citizen
A college graduate with at least a four-year degree
Between 19 and 32 years old (you must enter active duty or ship to training by your 33rd birthday and accept commission prior to age 34)
Eligible for a secret security clearance

My advice is pick your first and second choice for Branch and decide if you want Active Duty or Reserves, then go talk to an officer recruiter.

The military is not the only place to "serve". Being a good citizen and becoming involved in your community to make it a better place for all citizens is a service to our country. Become a community leader who speaks the truth and shows compassion for others - that is service!

Good luck and God bless!

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2020 10:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 22:44:18 -0500

I came in with a Bachelor's degree in Journalism in 2004. I was told I'd have to wait six months to go to basic to get public affairs so my next option I was told that was the "closest thing to journalism" was intelligence analyst. The other options after that were mechanic or cook. I took intel.

I came in enlisted and came in for College Loan Repayment. I planned to do 4 years and get out. Here I am 16 years later...

I don't really think your GPA from college matters to the Army. If you have a Bachelor's degree, if you're enlisting you come in as a SPC. If you want to be an officer, you can go to OCS. I don't know on the officer side of things at all. I never went officer. I stayed enlisted the entire time - but I have used Tuition Assistance and my 9/11 GI Bill to get two Master's degrees. I'll probably be overqualified when I retire.

Go talk to a recruiter - whichever branch of the military you want or are interested in. Or go talk to a recruiter for all of them. The one that has probably the strictest standards seems to be the Air Force honestly.

Response by Capt Kellogg Patton, PhD made Dec 30 at 2020 1:09 AM

Capt Kellogg Patton, PhD — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 01:09:47 -0500

I graduated from Chico State College in 1976 with a BA in Recreation administration at age 25. I had no job skills as I did not know you were supposed to work for a living. I honestly thought everyone went to the country club, rode horses, went waterskiing, and all the other fun stuff summer vacation is supposed to be for.
My father asked a friend of mine (who was a Ballistic Missle Analyst Technician active duty at Davis-Monthan AFB) if “Kelly would make it in the military.” Dave quite frankly said, “No sir. But I’d give anything to see her try.”
So I joined the military on that bet and never looked back. Just do it!

Thru DNA testing in 2020 I learned I am a direct descendent of General George S. Patton. I took that challenge and enlisted in the USAF as a weather observer. The Vietnam war was ending and i missed the VietNam era service by 3 friggin weeks. The recruiter got me into basic but I noticed the paperwork said I was a MALE. It took 3 weeks to get me a slot in the women’s training class. Darn it.
So enlist as it is easier to get out if you are enlisted if do not like the rigid structure of strong discipline that basic training was supposed to instill in the 1970s.

The USAF found out I had a college degree and sent me to take the Officer qualifying test.
I stayed a weather observer and made buck sgt but then I applied for Officer training school at Lackland in 1979 and was promoted to E-5 for the 90 days.
Read about my career on other posts and see my YouTube videos PTSD monologues of my military experiences at FLYING FLAMINGO REFUGE and myPTSD website FLYINGFLAMINGOREFUGE.COM.
Bottom line - I retired in 1999 as a Captain, O-3 and am enjoying my Tri-care for Life medical benefits. My paycheck is a nice cushion for these hectic COVID-19 protocol restrictions.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Dec 30 at 2020 9:08 AM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 09:08:50 -0500

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." JFK. Proud you have a desire to serve our nation and with a degree, many doors open for you to give your best. As a helicopter pilot, I can suggest you take the test to see if you qualify physically and if so, pursue that career whether Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Navy or Army. Military, today, is high tech and there are new fields out there; Space Force for example or drone tech. Like I say, many doors will open for you as a degreed person. Thank you for wanting to serve. Salute.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 30 at 2020 11:08 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:08:12 -0500

I enlisted at 27 with a BA, although a better GPA. My choice was to go enlisted for awhile, then see if I was interested in OCS. I stayed enlisted for a bit over two years when the battalion solicited anyone with a degree to see if they were interested in attending OCS. I said yes, put up with the BS to get through OCS and commissioned.
If you do a couple of years enlisted, get a bit of rank and experience, then apply for OCS, the board has something to look at besides your GPA. It has been my experience that the Degree is a checkmark and I know more than one officer that commissioned with a less than stellar GPA, and I include myself in that statement. If you have a good ASVAB score and good eval's as enlisted, you should be good to go.
You may get in and like the enlisted side. The services now expect Senior NCO's to be educated and there are a lot of CSM's and MCPO's with master degrees. Don't overlook that option. The other option, at least in the Army, is Warrant Officer, which is more of a technical specialist.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Dec 30 at 2020 11:29 AM

CPT John Sheridan — Wed, 30 Dec 2020 11:29:15 -0500

If you have a degree in the right field and some professional work experience, there are possibilities for a direct commission.

Response by Maj Don Harmon made Dec 31 at 2020 11:20 AM

Maj Don Harmon — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 11:20:07 -0500

You really need to consult the recruiters of those branches of most interest to you. The services constantly adjust their criteria, based on their changing needs. Many factors besides your GPA enter into their decisions.

Response by Col Tri Trinh made Dec 31 at 2020 11:48 AM

Col Tri Trinh — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 11:48:25 -0500

Sounds like you want to serve. I encourage you to go talk to a recruiter and talk to people who have served and are serving. You will get varied feedback. Go serve anyways.
Take your pick of the many services, the newest one being Space Force.
You can be an officer or enlisted. You have to have a degree to be an officer (Note: Many enlisted personnel have advanced degrees).
Don't worry about your grades. Focus on the future and what you are bringing.

Response by LCDR Phil Silverman made Jan 2 at 2021 5:28 PM

LCDR Phil Silverman — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 17:28:20 -0500

I started off in the Army Reserves with 2 degrees, switched into the Guard when I went into grad school, but I didn't receive my commission until I finished a Masters in Chemistry, and I had to go Navy to do that. The thought that comes to me is "It isn't the size of the dog on the porch, it's the fight in the dog." The military isn't the place of last resort (since I have failed at everything else, I might as well join!) and it is largely what you make of it. Having a degree already isn't all that uncommon for enlisted service members, and learning and making mistakes as an E-4 is not nearly as painful as the results from making the same error as an O-1.
Also, while others might disagree, a 2.0 gpa will not open as many doors as a higher gpa would, and for officers being asked for a recommendation for commissioning, I always asked about gpa: it showed how this person was able to maintain over time and how they were able to (or not) overcome adversity.
Had I applied to the Navy with a gpa lower than a 3.0, I would have been shown the door.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2021 2:17 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 14:17:14 -0500

After my superiors gave you the officer route, I wanted to let you know there are many more options available to you. I'm excited that a Warrant Officer also replied! In my opinion, more info is always best.
In my 12 years active duty, and 14 years with the Air National Guard, I have known quite a few fine servicemembers who had a full four-year degree completed, but decided to enter as enlisted instead of as a commissioned individual. Each one I spoke to said they wouldn't change a thing. The key point is that you can only move up - never "downward" once you get commissioned. Also, it's important to note that you can go from active to National Guard or Reserve FAR easier as enlisted than you can go from the reserve components to active. As an officer, it might be easier in the reverse, just from seeing friends get commissioned and enter active duty. My main point here is that you can start at the bottom and work your way up without hurting the end result you have in mind.
Example: You sign on for active duty as an enlisted individual. After a little while, you feel you want to be an officer, so you go ahead and apply for commissioning. It's that simple, but as the Col below stated, you have to keep a watch on your age. No procrastinating.
The hardest part will be choosing a branch. All of us say ours is the best, so ask questions from each before deciding. The Air Force has many benefits such as extra stripes for completed degrees; all schools are accredited; better housing (haha, yes I went there!). Don't let the Army say the AF dining is better, I've eaten at both in many different locations and I have to admit, Soldiers are fed WELL when they are on the move! We also have many specialty teams (a well kept secret), in case you want the "action" side of service such as Ravens, Tac-P & Combat Controllers, JTAC, Para-rescue (PJs), etc. If you are interested in aircraft we obviously have those. Sciences, hospitality, medical, construction, legal, logistics, you name it. The Army calls us to move them - that's how good our logistics have become!

Response by Malachi Kirkpatrick made Jan 7 at 2021 5:18 PM

Malachi Kirkpatrick — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:18:21 -0500

Rally Point Community,

Based on the excellent advice and recommendations provided here, I have decided to enlist in the United States Navy. If I choose further down the road to make the military my primary career, this will allow me the most flexibility and give me the most significant opportunity for growth. I wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to provide me with advice and recommendations.

Best regards,

Malachi Kirkpatrick

Response by SrA Amanda Jackson made Jan 8 at 2021 5:59 PM

SrA Amanda Jackson — Fri, 08 Jan 2021 17:59:31 -0500

Doesn’t matter what grade you have as long as you have a bachelors ( C’s get degrees)! I would say commission to whatever branch you choose to fit(Go Air Force) whether active or reserve

Response by PO3 Patricia Miner made Apr 8 at 2021 10:34 AM

PO3 Patricia Miner — Thu, 08 Apr 2021 10:34:58 -0400

I had a college degree but went the enlisted route because I wanted to do the actual job not supervise. I worked in intelligence for 8 1/2 years and would not change a thing. I was discharged and went directly into a major insurance company working as the equivalent of an Attorney with a law degree because my military training as an analyst prepared me for it. In three years I increased my pay by $20,000 a year because my military training equiped me to do the job better than a law degree would have. I looked at legislation in a totally different way because of it.

My advice to anyone with a degree is to make sure you go into a job that will teach you things you can never learn in college. Working in intelligence was the best job I ever had. If I hadn't had a child I would have stayed in the military until I retired or worked for NSA as a civilian until retirement. I spent four years there. It was the best time of my life.

Response by Capt Ron Jr Frakes made Aug 16 at 2021 9:51 PM

Capt Ron Jr Frakes — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 21:51:16 -0400

Get accepted to OCS, OTS, then you enter as an officer. Go to tech school. I went to ICBM school then to a missile wing. 4 years pulling alerts, 1 year Codes Division. Then to NSA to program manage my missile system.