What are the benefits of using the doors for a jump in a C-130 over the ramp?

LTC Yinon Weiss — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:07:42 -0400

I generally see the ramp used at USASFC for jumps, even if jumping from both sides. Conventional units tend to use the doors. I'm wondering what the benefits are?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 6:11 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:11:10 -0400

If you use the ramp, no slamming on the side of the plane if you get hung up.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 6:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:12:40 -0400

When you have 60+ paratroopers you want to get out as fast as you can, using both doors lets you empty the plane much faster. I think even using both sides of the ramp requires more spacing between jumpers. SF teams doing freefall don't have that requirement. There may also be some factors related to the manueverability of the aircraft being degraded with the ramp down, but that's just a guess. Need an air force person to discuss that aspect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 6:13 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:13:11 -0400

The only thing I can think of is that putting a large amount of jumpers out quickly is easier to control the output timing using the doors to prevent collision. Jumping a tailgate high performance has honestly never been my favorite thing anyway. Tailgates are great jumps from chinook or casa though.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 6:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:20:43 -0400

There are actually few reasons. I have jumped both ramp and doors. I did a Mass Tac last week. The only time you see a Ramp Blast is with small units such as a SF or LRS Team. When you are going with Mass Tacs you can get more out by using both doors. If you only have 10 seconds of green light you should be able to use both doors and put more than just using the ramp. I have never seen anyone use a Ramp for a Mass Tac. To me it would seem far to dangerous. The location of the JM and the Safety would be an issue. Plus could you imagine if a guy fell down on the ramp. It would create havoc. He has no where to go. While jumping doors you could just pull them to the side and let the rest jump. In addition to all of this I imagine that it would also create a lot more hazards too. Just a bit of turbulance you could lose the cargo handlers in the back.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 3 at 2016 6:26 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:26:47 -0400

Higher rate of exit and MORE jumpers.. over the ramp is limited to 40, jump doors you get 64 in peacetime, 76 in combat. Thats is why you see the jump doors used in standard procedure.
Chasing heavy drops (our gun truck) and smaller size element (4 man crew per truck) we would jump ramp.
My small Infantry platoon in Alaska was the only one allowed to request and make ramp jumps the three years I was at Fort Richardson. When I was at Bragg, the only ramp jump I did was proficiency stuff jumping static line with special people (SF mostly) They would need 10 static line jumpers as part of the package that wold take them up to alt for free fall. ... So static line jumpers were many times found from the regular airborne community

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 6:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 18:27:00 -0400

USASFC jumps MC6 steerable chutes, so both paratroop doors can't be utilized at the same time. You're choices are jump one door, jump one door and then the other, or ramp. Ramp doesn't require a JM controlling static lines and doesn't require a strong exit. Basically like a Chinook jump.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made May 3 at 2016 7:37 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 03 May 2016 19:37:51 -0400

None. Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane from any door is silly. :D

Of course it is easier to push those of us who feel that way out the ramp than the door.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2016 7:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 May 2016 19:48:56 -0400

LTC Yinon Weiss more jumpers faster. Personally I like it as I do not see where I am going til the last bit and by then I am out the door.

Response by SGT Richard H. made May 3 at 2016 8:31 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 03 May 2016 20:31:55 -0400

Because if Special Forces didn't do things in a special way, they'd just be 'forces'?

Sorry...couldn't resist.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made May 4 at 2016 8:56 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 04 May 2016 08:56:55 -0400

It's been many moons, but I think doors maximize safety and getting max troops out -- I've never jumped more than one anchor line cable off a ramp (3rd SFG) and we took the whole ramp to avoid the d-bags. With doors (82nd), all cables are in play and d-bags are not as big an issue.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 4 at 2016 11:43 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 04 May 2016 11:43:36 -0400

Being as far removed from jump anything as Taylor Swift, I presume JATO packs are not an obstruction problem? Hard to think of a scenario where you'd have a jump load out that would require them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2016 3:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 May 2016 15:20:28 -0400

You can exit more paratroopers when you jump from the side doors as opposed to the ramp. You can jump two doors and get more out at one time. With the ramp you only have one anchor-line cable which only allows half the number of people to jump.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made May 4 at 2016 5:49 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Wed, 04 May 2016 17:49:20 -0400

Good question. I'm pretty sure the main benefit is the amount of Paratroopers exiting the door. See attached illustration. Tail gate jump you can only use 2 anchor line cables (20 pax each / 40 total) versus 4 (64+ pax) on the door exits. So you can do a mass tact from the doors, but not the ramp. Well at least not an official mass tact. For more info refer to TC 3-21.220. Anyways, I'm not pretending to be a jump guru as I just researched some of this interesting info. I also recommend this this cool and interesting link: http://www.combatreform.org/llparachute.htm

Very Low-Level Military Parachutes

During WWII, American Paratroopers were able to jump at extremely low altitudes due to the T-4/T-7's canopy-and-lines-at-the-same-time opening sequence. The photos below show a French Paratrooper jumping a T-4 or T-7.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made May 4 at 2016 10:51 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Wed, 04 May 2016 22:51:34 -0400

My reason, so I can follow the pack tray in front of me and psychologically pretend that I'm not jumping from the sky.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 5 at 2016 12:39 AM

COL Charles Williams — Thu, 05 May 2016 00:39:21 -0400

More jumpers faster and safer... the ramp is limited to 40... More thru the doors... 60-70...

Response by CPL Richard Smith made May 10 at 2016 1:15 AM

CPL Richard Smith — Tue, 10 May 2016 01:15:35 -0400

control of the flow of jumpers

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 3:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 15:15:17 -0400

Just for more knowledge, when USASOC conducts a Jumpmaster Course, PWAC is still conducted on the doors. If a C-130 is not available, they will conduct the door check on the CASA-212. When it comes to conventional units like the 82nd Or 173rd, they conduct door so that they can get all that is on the aircraft on the first pass. They are the "force multipliers" To seize an airfield. That is the benefit for using the doors... getting all combat loaded Paratroopers on the ground. When you conduct ramp operations, the anchor line is configured differently thus the number of Paratroopers would be half. Many USASOC units use the ramp to stay proficient, but with the transition from the CASA 212 to the C-27J, they are using both ramp and door to conduct static line proficiency jumps. Sorry to go on a rant but essentially the ramp is beneficial for keeping current on your jump status while the door is beneficial when conducting Mass Tactical Airfield Seizures in times that the Global Reaponse Force is needed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 10:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 May 2016 22:05:50 -0400

Doors you can put two at a time out, while you can only do one at a time off the ramp. I prefer the ramp, as there is less twisting and it's less chance of collision, but it also presents a risk of hitting and potentially tangling with other jumpers D-bags if you exit the ramp wrong.

Response by MAJ Charlie Youngs made May 27 at 2016 10:29 PM

MAJ Charlie Youngs — Fri, 27 May 2016 22:29:07 -0400

C130 ramp jump is great. Only thing I had better was a CH 47 ramp jump.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Jun 7 at 2016 12:43 PM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:43:37 -0400

Ramp exits encourage walking out of the aircraft vs jumping up and out. When you simply walk out and fall there is less chance of malfunction due to jumper error. Ramps also lead to people being more aware of their surroundings as many door jumps are night jumps regardless of the time of day because troops have their eyes closed.
I always preferred ramp exits from fixed wing and even rotary aircraft, the view is amazing and CH-47 jumps were my all time favorite. Them Night Stalkers will take you on a hell of a ride and then you just step out into the heavens.
Good topic LTC Yinon Weiss

Response by SFC David Pratt made Jun 10 at 2016 12:36 AM

SFC David Pratt — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 00:36:33 -0400

I read an earlier response asking that age old question: "why would anyone jump from a perfectly good airplane?" The answer is that we do it because Marines need Heros too! AATW!

Response by SPC James Cisko made Jun 21 at 2017 9:33 AM

SPC James Cisko — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 09:33:24 -0400

Ramp is better if jumping with large equipment, also if you're jumping as a unit. Airborne use the door, just as good if you're going out 1 stick at a time

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 21 at 2017 10:05 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:05:36 -0400

I was an airdrop qualified pilot and instructor pilot for over 10 years. From the cockpit point of view there is little difference. The airplane handles about the same with the paratroop doors or ramp and door open. I know a paratroop door exit can sometimes cause the trooper to be buffeted around quite a bitt. Especially in turbulent air conditions. BTW when flying the aircraft, you can actually feel each trooper leave the jump platform during a personnel drop.

From the loadmaster's perspective, which I understand incidentally at best, a static line personnel drop traditionally goes out the paratroop doors because that's the way troopers left aircraft like the C47 during WWII. However, the static line retriever works for a door or ramp airdrop. For high altitude non-static line airdrops, I understand the troopers like to ramp better, especially if they are carrying an extra equipment load. I don't think it matters all that much to the Loadmaster. Ramp may be a little easier because the paratroop doors are manually operated, but the ramp and door are hydraulic--the Loadmaster only has to activate a switch or we could open it from the cockpit.