What are the reasons that Service Members with PTSD, TBI, or Severely Disabled will not try new services to get help?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:42:32 -0500

What are the reasons that Service Members with PTSD, TBI, or Severely Disabled will not try new services to get help?

I have a number of questions within this post that I would like to get everyone's input on from a professional standpoint. I also have some very important information for veterans and service members that need help and want to keep it anonymous!

As you know I lost a Father-in-Law (Vietnam Veteran diagnoised with PTSD) to Suicide on Tuesday, 8 December 2015 and he was buried on 16 December 2015 in Killeen, TX with full military honors! It is importand to me and the RallyPoint Members that are working with me and Virtual World Solutions to help stop this waive of suicides due to PTSD, TBI, and many other factors affecting our service members (including MST).

Please check the survey box - need the input please!

RP Memebers there are so many new services out there today for individuals that are suffering from PTSD, TBI, and that are Severely Disabled - how do we get them to feel comfortable about any one service or methodology?

Here is a nice evening program every Sunday called: "Warrior for Life" (WFL) Group Suport. This is now a part of Victory for Veterans Foundation. We stay connected (7) days a week on SKYPE with our group members. We welcome Veterans, Active Duty Service Members, Military Family Members, and Civilians that are suffering from PTSD, TBI, MST, and other disabilities to join us on Sunday evenings.

Please connect with me first on SKYPE at: mikel.burroughs

Have a short BIO about yourself ready to go and then I'll add you to the group with a Welcoming Message. You can get to know others via text first and then join us on Sunday evenings. If you want to join the Video Conference just to observe, you can turn off video and audio and just observe until you feel comfortable with the group. All of our members are members of RallyPoint and we've been meeting now going on two (2) years now.

We have members from all over the world and United States, so come join us for this one hour of group support each week.

Here is how you can join this Sunday to just listen in if you want to or any Sunday in the future:

Warrior for Life Group Support Sunday night at 8:00 PM EST (7:00 PM CST) 6:00 PM MST & 5:00 PM PST!

COL (R) Mikel Burroughs is inviting you to a RingCentral meeting.

Join from PC, Mac, iOS or Android: https://meetings.ringcentral.com/j/ [login to see]

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SGT Michael Thorin has provided some directions for loading Ring Central.

https://youtu.be/M8D_8iSNQ7k

RingCentral Meetings

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 19 at 2015 8:53 AM

SFC Stephen King — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:53:40 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs I feel the reason Active Duty service members do not seek help is the combination of confidentiality and admittedly the stigma that exists today. I train all in processing to my post and use it to let them know it's OK to seek help we today's military are shrinking and we must accept the duty to each other's keeper. We also have the MFLC's come in and speak to our classes to help with the message.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2015 9:32 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 09:32:07 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs It's painful to know that we are still losing Soldiers to wars long over. That's how I look at it when I hear about a Soldier committing suicide.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 19 at 2015 10:07 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:07:50 -0500

Fear, Fear, Fear, and more Fear. I HATED with a RENEWED passion having to explain to another doctor what happened, being forced to relieve it, begin treatment, build trust in that Doctor, just to find him or her PCS'sing. It's infuriating to no end, and no one wants to keep bringing it up unless you just want to be heard and "like" hearing how "cool" you were while deployed. If there was a sure fied way to drop the memories and triggers, I might consider it, but I don't think I'd do it. All my suffering was for a reason. God said so, and he expects me to figure it out no matter how hard it may be. So if Jesus can carry a cross knowing he's going to do this for my sins, I can carry my burden and find ways to help others lessen theirs. On a second note, the BEST therapy I ever had was immersion therapy. Hands down anger through the roof, feelings all over the place, folks ready to fight each other, but as it went on, you could see the light bulbs turning on, and folks beginning to accept what was being taught, and making strides to learn. Alas the Army thought it was too long, and all of us were removed at the 45 day mark. The worst BAR NONE was electrotherapy. Placing two leads on your ear lobes and having a current run through your head, was funny, but unless you just like 20 minutes of being a veggie, best to pass on that one. My therapy now is talking with my peers and getting their advice on coping skills. I find they are some of the best to talk to and have some great ideas that worked for them, and I don't have to explain myself ever. COL you even reached out to me. While I was skeptical of the site when I visited it, I know the man who told me to go there and look was of outstanding character. There needs to be more like you, and there are, they're just quiet.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Dec 19 at 2015 10:24 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:24:32 -0500

The VA is not interested in getting us help. They just want us to go away. the best way for them to get that result is with big pharma. They had me on a variety of crap until I said fuck, I'll deal with it on my own. Now, I take the occasional Xanax to help me sleep but the last time I had a GOOD nights sleep was 45 years ago BEFORE I went to the military.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Dec 19 at 2015 10:45 AM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 10:45:56 -0500

I think that people are afraid of being labeled (worse than they already are), having their rights to handle their own finances or their right to own a gun taken from them by some bureaucrat. Our government (all of them) has repeatedly lied (and continue to do so) to us, unless they are seeking votes. I am sure there are many other factors, but in the end, it comes down to trust...there is no trust in our elected public officials.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Dec 19 at 2015 11:33 AM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 11:33:53 -0500

Oftentimes, it is the psychiatric disability itself, that tells the service member that they don't need the help....and/or want it.
In my case, it's a matter of confidentiality. I don't trust most people in the world; with my story.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 19 at 2015 11:36 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 11:36:18 -0500

I believe some veterans do not believe in the efficacy of a particular program. I also have an unqualified opinion two types of therapists exist: one who is prepared to help and one who is unprepared. Some people are gripped with fear for losing their careers, jobs, unknown, and family. Some fear that nothing will help them and the hurt and pain will never go away. It is at this point that we must convey and convince them not to quit. Don't give up. Find reasons to keep going and live. That in the darkness, it will not always be dark and light will come into their lives. We need to give them hope. Hope is a powerful drug. Love is a powerful drug too.

Response by SSgt Ed Lewandowski made Dec 19 at 2015 11:48 AM

SSgt Ed Lewandowski — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 11:48:23 -0500

im getting more help from cleveland clinic then the va

Response by 1SG Richard Evans made Dec 19 at 2015 11:55 AM

1SG Richard Evans — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 11:55:53 -0500

I think a big part of it is that most veterans feel let down on themselves to admit that he or she actually has a problem. We want to remain tuff and in charge of our destiny and to ask for help is admitting that we are not in charge. We have to get veterans to realize that every problem has a solution and admitting that we have a problem is the beginning of solving the problem. Communication and a solid support group can make a major difference in how we deal with everyday life. I dealt with my issues on my own for many years, after loosing most of my friends, becoming anti social and basically suffering in silence, I finally sought help. After individual counseling and group therapy, I realized that many veterans are dealing with internal issues and some were/are far worse then me. I found comfort in talking to a group and sharing everyday efforts to be more beneficial than the one-on-one sessions. Brothers and sisters at arms recovering together.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2015 3:40 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:40:18 -0500

Sir, the biggest factor is trust. Veterans do not trust the government or the VA. In my case, I did not file paperwork with the VA until 2008, and I was in Vietnam 1969-1970. It is tough admitting to yourself that you are not the tough guy and need help. I was getting nowhere with the VA, so last year, I contacted a Veteran Service Officer with the VFW. With his help, I was able to have my Agent Orange claim processed.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Dec 19 at 2015 4:32 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 16:32:46 -0500

Hate to say it, Hate to think it but I think there is still a "Macho" attitude that refuses to acknowledge that we are human and need help. Refusal to acknowledge our Physical and Mental Ailments. Fear to let others in and seek the help they can provide. Lack in Trust of "Others".

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Dec 19 at 2015 4:41 PM

SSgt Terry P. — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 16:41:43 -0500

It is a matter of trust to me.

Response by SrA Marlin Taylor made Dec 19 at 2015 5:39 PM

SrA Marlin Taylor — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 17:39:36 -0500

Over the years I have been lied to, misled and put on a waiting list so many times that you get to the point where you can't trust anyone.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Dec 19 at 2015 6:22 PM

SSG Leo Bell — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 18:22:53 -0500

I know for me it's hard to open up to allot of people and I do t want a pitty party from anyone

Response by SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT made Dec 19 at 2015 9:48 PM

SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:48:49 -0500

The biggest problem for senior NCOs was the negative perception of being weak and those of us with Top Secret clearances were afraid we could lose it
Because at he end of the day your medical records are not private.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Dec 19 at 2015 10:11 PM

SFC William Farrell — Sat, 19 Dec 2015 22:11:12 -0500

First of all, my sympathies on the loss of your father in law, COL Mikel J. Burroughs. I know how hard it must be for you and your family. It wasn't long after I left Fort Hood in 1973, drinking heavily since Vietnam that while I wasn't trying to kill myself, rather seeking help, what I did could have very well ended my life.
It wasn't until forty years later that I was diagnosed with PTSD. What I have found in using the VA is that all they want to do is medicate you so I try and avoid any treatment. I self medicated for years and didn't need any more drugs.

Response by Cpl Clinton Britt made Dec 20 at 2015 8:39 AM

Cpl Clinton Britt — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:39:12 -0500

I encourage my military friends to seek help even if they are still serving. Some with PTSD are afraid of losing their career and also losing their weapons.

Some think that asking for help portrays them as being weak which isn't true

Please if you need help, please get it

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 20 at 2015 10:34 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 10:34:21 -0500

Stigma and very real concerns that the seeking of treatment or help will be used against them, if not today then tomorrow.
Second to that is the perception of no real help available though the VA..just the offer of group therapy and drugs.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Dec 20 at 2015 12:47 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 12:47:02 -0500

Many with TBI and PTSD are very afraid to put themselves out there. Many therapies bring back the pain, and for some, this is just far too challenging.

Another thing I hear far too often is that vets are afraid that if they admit to the level of PTSD they are experiencing, authorities will take away their guns. Since they feel so unsafe as it is, this is a very visceral threat to them. They see their homes as FOBs or COPs, their property line as the perimeter and their fence as the wire. Anyone on the street is a potential enemy, etc...

TBI complicates things even more, because it can affect cognition so severely...

Response by COL Ted Mc made Dec 20 at 2015 12:49 PM

COL Ted Mc — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 12:49:30 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs - Mikel; I really wish that there was a single answer, but there isn't. I checked "Trust" because that comes (as I see it) closest to fitting into all of the other categories.

People don't trust the VA not to retaliate against them. They don't trust that their confidentiality will be respected. They don't trust the information that they are getting. They don't trust the "helpers" not to be in for ulterior motives.

Part of that loss of trust stems from the "Suck it up." attitude that the troops are inculcated with and part from the rejection that they feel/fear if they are no longer able to "Suck it up.".

Without an internalization (at all levels) that the troops ARE going to be harmed and that it IS the responsibility of those who commit the troops in the knowledge that the troops ARE going to be harmed to do everything that they can do to rectify that harm no change is ever going to be made - no matter how many "band-aids" the "non-system" people apply. (Which is NOT to denigrate the "non-system" people because without them the situation would be at least a magnitude worse - only to say that they aren't the ones who have to change into conscientiously caring people who acknowledge their duty to the troops.)

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Dec 20 at 2015 12:52 PM

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 12:52:00 -0500

With so much verbiage in support of us - you just get tired of it and lean on others you know dealing with the same issues. We have lots of people who say "Support the Troops." In reality it's mostly lip service and those who use it for personal gain. The best and most loyal supporters are from within and from others who have served as well. I see a growing distrust of Veterans and that disturbs me deeply.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Dec 21 at 2015 12:39 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 00:39:35 -0500

The major reason I see is because the VA system is not easy to get into, has a poor track record of treating veterans and is not trusted. I have full VA coverage and Medicare. I have three major health issues, I only use the VA for one of them and if it wasn't for them thinking I was "cured" and revamping my pension% I'd go through medicare for that.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Dec 21 at 2015 11:01 AM

SSG Todd Halverson — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 11:01:31 -0500

To me the biggest issue was trust. It has taken me quite a while before I truly started to open up about my PTS. I went through some counseling while still AD and really didn't want to start all over. The hardest part is having to retell everything again.
Now at the VA most of my doctors go, I have read your file so I will not ask you to relive the whole issue.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 1:43 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:43:57 -0500

Personally I think it is a combination of all the above/below stated ones. I didn't even know I had PTSD until my mother and current wife saw that there was something wrong with me. Once I found out it was/wasn't me then I could get some help. Also, one has to WANT to get help. Once you take that step of WANTING to get help? You are on your way.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Dec 21 at 2015 2:10 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 14:10:11 -0500

I think its the lack of trust when you ask for help. Its hard to trust the VA doctors and staffers when they, for the most part, seem like they are conducting sick call on the ship. If I feel I cannot trust you then I will not open up to you.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Dec 21 at 2015 7:44 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 19:44:17 -0500

I've found that we hold on to that age old stigma and alienate ourselves thinking we are broken and nobody can understand. I find it hard for myself to will myself to open a box of expierences and issues that I keep shut and buried. Though as I found out through therapy is that stuff will find a source to come out no matter how hard you try to lock it away.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 21 at 2015 11:33 PM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 23:33:25 -0500

Because we are hard headed and stoic.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Dec 22 at 2015 12:18 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 12:18:33 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs: The photograph on the far left, of the Soldier saluting and crying at the same time- is about the saddest thing I have ever seen in my LIFE.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 22 at 2015 5:35 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 17:35:08 -0500

I deal with PTSD and TBI, and after bad experiences seeking help, that added to anger within I have learned to shut down. I think the PTSD becomes a Monster that has chosen to protect me from those that have offered help but instead gave judgment.

Response by CPO J Davis made Dec 22 at 2015 11:05 PM

CPO J Davis — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 23:05:17 -0500

I've got TBI and pts. After a couple years at Walter Reed, I learned not to trust any of them. I'd hoped after my medical retirement and transfer to VA, I'd find docs that were really interested in treatment instead of following an agenda. Instead, I found few docs take the time to even read my medical history, play follow up appointment game with months between appointments only to be passed to some other doc who does the same thing and nothing ever gets done. I've found that 8/10 VA docs are just punching time cards and must have left their "give a shit" at home. Maybe they are overworked, understaffed, pressured more on herding us through quick turn appointments instead of thoroughly practicing medicine. Too many VA docs think they are VA compensation raters, trying hard to find ways to make cuts, instead of being docs and actually figuring out what's wrong.

Sure, I've got lots of medical problems, but it's not my TBI or pts that prevents treatment. It's the complete failure of the system.

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Dec 22 at 2015 11:26 PM

SPC Rory J. Mattheisen — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 23:26:52 -0500

We have already been failed many times over.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Dec 23 at 2015 5:31 AM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 05:31:01 -0500

I think it has something to do with the Warrior mentality also. As a former Infantryman, I, nor any of my fellow Infantryman went on sick call unless they were close to death. A warrior does not want to admit weakness, and getting help (at least in the 70's 80's and 90's was a sign of weakness (I can handle this by myself syndrome0. When you get over that hump and realize there is no shame in asking for and getting help, that will fix a lot of the problem. I wish there was an easy fix, but until we train soldiers that requesting help is not a sign of weakness, we will fail.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 8:27 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 08:27:07 -0500

SSG Warren Swan already pointed out - Fear, Fear and more Fear. For me for example I did not want to ask for help until I nearly ended up killing someone due to the fact that I was still in the military. Providing any info to my chain of command was basically Death Sentence to military career.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 12:48 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 12:48:45 -0500

Frankly, I don't say anything about TBI, or PTSD on medical screenings because I'm an avid shooter. Given that the VA can arbitrarily declare you not mentally competent to own a firearm, I'll just not say anything about it and deal with it myself.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Dec 23 at 2015 4:47 PM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 16:47:06 -0500

Sorry to here of the loss. PTSD can be challenging at times to deal with. The only way for anyone is to get help.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 8:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 20:35:02 -0500

I'd say because of the lies of how it "won't affect your future in the military." A good friend of mine was just refused Warrant Officer because of having seen a psychologist in 2012. The individual was told that it was the only reason.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2015 11:05 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:05:42 -0500

Fear.......there is a huge stigma attached with PTSD and folks don't want to get labeled. Hell I almost walked out of my job a few months ago because someone found out I have PTSD and started discriminating against me (long story, short of it I'm still here, there personnel record is a little bigger) but goes to my point. MOST people I know who have PTSD do not want it to be public knowledge, they will deal with a finite number of folks (usually friends in the same boat) but they do not want to expand that circle of trust without good reason if even then.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Dec 25 at 2015 1:00 PM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Fri, 25 Dec 2015 13:00:08 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Sir, I have neglected posting on this issue based on my experiences, but here is my response. I had a counselor with the VA and she could not understand anything I had experienced. She was never in the military. She promoted (of course) and I received a new therapist via telemed. That sucked. She was a former US Navy psychologist and understood about being in the military but had never deployed. This disconnect was two fold. Telemed (huge issue for me) and lack of deployed experience. I never developed trust with either provider. I have trust issues anyway and am generally somewhat skeptical that anyone other than me has my best interests at the center of their actions. I have completed a PTSD treatment program (Prolonged Exposure Therapy) which provided some coping mechanisms but little symptomatic relief.

While still in service, I was ostracized for being a proponent of Soldiers seeking treatment when they returned from deployment. My Soldiers observed the treatment I received and avoided treatment to keep their "respect" intact.

Regardless of official policy, many commanders and SNCO leaders still do not support Soldiers who need support. As a Detachment First Sergeant and later as an Operations NCO, I was in support of getting any Soldier the help and or assistance they needed at anytime.

Further, my best friend was a PTSD suicide based on stress, physical injury, and a lack of empathetic support.

I feel my career ended prematurely and the Soldiers I could have assisted were left with little or no support when I departed. I kept in contact with many and have been able to assist them in obtaining support, but on a very limited basis.

I received no retirement award, no retirement ceremony, and the only congratulations I received from my unit was from an Operations SGM. This adds (note present tense) to the depression, angst, and anxiety I feel.

Response by Sgt Joe LaBranche made Dec 25 at 2015 11:01 PM

Sgt Joe LaBranche — Fri, 25 Dec 2015 23:01:13 -0500

Feelings of government betrayal, abandonment, loss of faith, lack of trust in the VA, and the realization that America is oblivious to what is going on on the battlefield all are reasons veterans reject help.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 26 at 2015 6:33 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sat, 26 Dec 2015 06:33:41 -0500

I've been giving this one some thought and that's why I haven't responded until now. I believe the reason is lack of trust. Specifically a lot of these veterans have tried other (sometimes multiple) services that didn't work for them for various reasons. They now feel jaded and don't think that anything new will help them.

Response by SPC Ken Harper made Dec 26 at 2015 2:27 PM

SPC Ken Harper — Sat, 26 Dec 2015 14:27:13 -0500

We should be able to click on more than one reason because there are several reasons the vet's I deal with can't or won't get help. Kicked out of the service (typically due to ptsd/anger and the alcohol/drugs used to "self-medicate"/deal with the issues) - lost benefits (though Dept. of Army has begun a review of discharges that may be ptsd-related). Treated badly by the VA in the past - no confidence or trust in them now. The "solution" to ptsd, tbi, etc. seems to be pills, pills and more pills -don't want that kind of "help" because being stoned on medical prescriptions is no way to live/function. Reiteration of incident(s) that caused ptsd is difficult to do over and over and over (although some older ptsd vets confide that talking about things tends to lessen the severity) TBI and breathing issues are going to be studied ad nauseam because there isn't anything currently out there to "fix" the issues. One Agent Orange vet said the checks from the VA don't do a thing to recover his health and he'd much rather have good health than a deposit in his account, knowing that exposure to chemicals will be what kills him. The money can't buy him any more time to enjoy his wife, kids and grandkids.

Response by SSG Joel Galford made Dec 28 at 2015 1:44 AM

SSG Joel Galford — Mon, 28 Dec 2015 01:44:41 -0500

A big factor for me was fear. Fear of seeming weak and not sure of the unknown and having to talk to yet another Dr.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Dec 28 at 2015 2:10 AM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Mon, 28 Dec 2015 02:10:06 -0500

First, eliminate the stigma (shame) that is attached to PTSD. As we've seen here on RP there are some within our own ranks who erroneously believe this to be a scam. Second, watch the movie Concussion to see what forces of denial you are up against. If you stood a 1-in-4 chance of developing suicidal tendencies and related mental health problems as a result of 'playing the game', who would enlist? Education and a high-profile champion with clout is key.

Response by Sgt Carol Grisham made Dec 29 at 2015 7:09 PM

Sgt Carol Grisham — Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:09:40 -0500

For years after I got out, I didn't Know that a lot of the weird symptoms I was experiencing were related to the concussions I suffered while in the Corps. Even after I got a name for the spectrum of symptoms, I was shut down when I tried to get help, because the VA did not recognize the Syndrome (Meares-Irlen Syndrome) until recently. Even now, it is assumed by the VA that it can only be acquired in combat, even though all concussions are now classified as TBI. I'm tired of being shut out of new treatments (sometimes ANY treatment) because, by accident of birth, I wasn't called upon to serve in combat.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Jan 6 at 2016 2:11 PM

SSG Don Maggart — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:11:59 -0500

It's a Trust Issue followed closely by Confidentiality having just received my 4th OPM Letter describing what the Gov will do to Protect my Sensitive Information ooops that door should be a revolving one....

Response by TSgt Richard Satterfield made Jan 6 at 2016 4:57 PM

TSgt Richard Satterfield — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 16:57:26 -0500

I honestly think as Vets we are a proud group. We don't like hand outs...we only accepted a hand up while on duty. Also the information doesn't flow rapidly enough. Programs are hard to find out about especially new ones. We need more facts and I think education that it isn't a handout but a handup!

Response by COL Bob Labadie made Jan 9 at 2016 11:29 AM

COL Bob Labadie — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 11:29:30 -0500

There is no silver bullet for this issue! Peer support is greatest strength in dealing with emotional issues of this nature. Contractors are selling their programs all around the country, most with some variance of "trusted agent" relationship between the member and the "provider". There is not a cure, only a system of managing conditions. Drugs and alcohol are huge and dangerous triggers for those dealing with these issues, so walk away from that shit first and foremost. Then find a local peer group that will avail themselves to you day and night, anonymously, and fold yourself into the safety and security of your brothers and sisters...not a perfect solution, but evidence of some success in keeping the members at least engaged with like-type folks. A white lab coat, or a marijuana filled sweat house will cause the suffering member to retreat further into the safety of their own "personal perimeter". VA is overwhelmed on so many levels...and behavioral sciences require some "trusted agent" relationships to be built and nurtured over a period of time. I suspect that only your peers are really capable of "getting it" and any contractor, lab rat, pipe-smoking psychologist, or pot smoking guru from the end of the bar at the VFW is not going to raise confidence in the sufferer that already struggles with sharing raw, embarrassing, and very personal stuff in pursuit of finding the tools to manage their situation.

Response by Doug Macdonald made Jan 11 at 2016 8:27 AM

Doug Macdonald — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:27:01 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, I think that our veterans get caught up in the traditional processing of PTSD, TBI, etc., provided by physicians both in and out of the military. The medical community doesn't always offer options nor do they encourage alternative treatment.

As a daily, civilian survivor, of PTSD I was offered the same medical options of psychotics and opiates that are the traditional treatments for PTSD. Don't settle, EVER. It's up to you it's your choice of treatments. I went out and found others who had been through it to help me understand. Today, I do the same for others.

Response by CPT Benjamin Wenner made Jan 11 at 2016 1:34 PM

CPT Benjamin Wenner — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:34:03 -0500

To increase "show" rates at demonstration, maybe you could implement a webinar, audio/video conference, or even podcast for future referencing. If the problem is an on-site attendance, could it be a time-conflict? Transportation or capability limitations? Forgetting about the event (are reminders being sent out?)? Sudden issues/emergencies that take precedence?
Hope this helps.

Response by PO1 Kerry French made Jan 11 at 2016 10:36 PM

PO1 Kerry French — Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:36:31 -0500

Because they want to drug us up, label us mentally ill and take away our constitutional rights. Screw that!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 5:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:09:10 -0500

They have to wait for treatment, and the wait is long sometimes.

Response by Doug Macdonald made Jan 29 at 2016 1:15 PM

Doug Macdonald — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:15:01 -0500

COL Mikel J. Burroughs, In my experience, consulting with veterans suffering from any of the conditions mentioned above, it's a combination of trust and more information. In order to seek the information, they need to trust the source.

If you watched the debate, you will better understand the environment in which every veteran becomes gun shy. In the last 8 yrs. we have gone from approx 500 VSO's to over 45,000 today. Even the most popular and most advertised VSO, Wounded Warriors, was called out for their irresponsible fiscal policies, spending 40% of donations on lavish parties for staff & executives.

How do they know who to trust? They are approached weekly by unscrupulous, under fund VSO's promising help only to be disappointed. At a point, it's easier not to trust anyone.

Unfortunately Mikel, that makes our job much more difficult. I truly believe that a cannibalization is going to occur in the VSO marketplace and those left standing will be people and organizations that truly offer value to our veterans and not smoke & mirrors. Phase 2 Advantage & VetforLife are 2 organizations that will remain standing as both organizations are driven by a passion for helping veterans, whatever it takes.

Response by SPC(P) Micah Lavigne made Jan 31 at 2016 9:57 PM

SPC(P) Micah Lavigne — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:57:55 -0500

I tried everything the Military and VA had to offer. It just don't work. Too painful. So I developed my own treatment I call, I vent I keep moving. I stop moving I'm not doing well. Job hunting I go around moving around a lot I don't know where I'm going or doing but I suit up grab a bunch of resumes and just go. In the service I kept busy. I go to my appointments call and vent keep going. Flashbacks come and go I have to keep going.
Saturated with pills, therapy treatments and enough knowledge of psychological treatment for PTSD I could be a counselor. But I wont. Not that kind of guy. Mainly after trusting so long and. O results I don't trust any "new" and "proven" method even Canalis rationalizing

Response by A1C John R Wooton made Jan 31 at 2016 11:05 PM

A1C John R Wooton — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 23:05:59 -0500

Most don't or can't open up enough to accept the help they need

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Feb 3 at 2016 12:14 PM

SSG Michael Scott — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 12:14:54 -0500

Soldiers and Veterans do not want to show that he/she has a problem. Being labelled. Are afraid of how their peers will look at them. Battle Buddies will not trust him/her like before. Affecting his or her military career. I hate to say it, but some command kick out soldiers out of the armed forces so they do not have to deal with the BS. Also, there have been some reserve units, where soldiers have asked for help and did not get the help within a timely manner. Some reserve units just will not have
anything to to with a soldier who has found the courage to say, hey, I need some help.

Response by Cpl J Miller made Feb 13 at 2016 10:45 AM

Cpl J Miller — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:45:17 -0500

Trust and rapport. I was diagnosed with PTSD years ago, but also ASPD(Antisocial Personality Disorder), and it seems finding a qualified therapist with experience in that area has been difficult.

I know we're supposed to "talk" about it...but it doesn't do any good when we pour out our stuff on the table and the therapist or doc doesn't know what to do with it.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Apr 24 at 2016 2:56 AM

PO3 James Bobiney — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:56:39 -0400

Stigma! Constant state of denial from society. It's that way here in my town, and I am sure most of Eastern MT. People have always had the mentality of "just ignore it and it will go away" or "Cowboy Up, Bro". Yea, uhuh. If I had a switch to turn it off don't you think I would've flipped it by now? So in my opinion, that is why alot of vets in this area are afraid to get help. Or they are in that denial themselves with thinking they can just cowboy up and it will go away. People are raised that way here. It really makes me sad. It's my home town too. Not all people are that way though. But the vast majority in this region. Anyway, there's my two bits.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Apr 24 at 2016 10:30 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:30:55 -0400

Some of the individual's do have trust issues with others, but we need to try to gain their trust.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Apr 24 at 2016 10:41 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:41:06 -0400

Tired of being a guinea pig for the latest and best so-called cure all to end all...most of the shit is killing us.

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made Apr 24 at 2016 11:19 AM

SSG Dennis Grossmann — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:19:02 -0400

I am personally stuck in a conundrum. I hate reliving the expieriences and talking to a shrink who just kind of looks at you with their eyes all bugged out and the total look of shock, or rather continue going through the sleepless nights for fear that I might have another "dream" but act it out and possibly injuring my wife or one of my kids. I just bear it and suck it up as best as I can. The meds that I'm on are working alright for now. The main problem is when I mention to friends that I have PTSD, the conversation abruptly ends. That is the big reason I keep it to myself. The worst thing I do is produce jumbled up posts that are confusing. The frustration of knowing what you want to say but having it come out totally nonsensical..... Yeah, that's me.

Response by SSgt M. Har made Apr 24 at 2016 11:30 AM

SSgt M. Har — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 11:30:18 -0400

Some don't qualify but want help

Response by SrA Roy Cooper made Apr 24 at 2016 1:27 PM

SrA Roy Cooper — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 13:27:11 -0400

I believe I can give you insight on three different levels.
First, (someone I know) The fear that PTSD Label will effect his career, future career advancements, or future careers.
Secondly, (in my case) I've been seeing V.A. Psychiatrist for years now. Some who honestly have tried to help. One who saw me for about about 18 months and forgot why or what caused my PTSD and that was after looking into her notes. So, there was a doctor a change. There is the groups they love to put you in. As if one size fits all. But they don't.
Thrid, they are not prepared for the different types of PTSD. I was a Fire Protection Specialist in the Air Force. I had the worst thing that could happen to firefighter happen. I witnessed three children die in moblehome fire. I did not have any gear or any way of helping me to save them. But the V.A. wants to treat me as if I had been shot at, had an ID go off near me or some combat injury. I'm not trying to diminish those types of injuries by any means. But when you are put in a group of 10 to 15 people who have those type injuries and yours are like mine. You kinda feel like a goldfish thrown on a table in the middle of a bunch of cats.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Apr 24 at 2016 7:33 PM

SFC Wade W. — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 19:33:25 -0400

There are a lot of trust issues with people suffering from these issues and now the organizations are not making it any easier. Wait times, lack of communication between the systems, fear of losing your rights, etc. Whether these fears are justified or not these are real to the potential patients.
There is the problem of the type of discharge received also. Most of us have personal experience with someone who was discharged with some form of OTH and it is probably directly related to their illness. How do we help these veterans get the assistance that they need and justifiably deserve? There are so many things surrounding this and I would love to be able to sit at a round table with people who could execute the strategies.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 2:16 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:16:14 -0400

As for seeking other services help, The VA services all branches or am I missing the point of the question Mike.?
The history of the VA accepting the fact that " War is Hell " reaches as far back as the realization that the terminology needed to be integrated. Combat fatigue ( awww he's just tired, let him rest a while and everything will be ok ) Invisible War Wounds. ( Since they were invisible , it was easier to forget them out of " sight unseen". Here's the most ludicrous tag ever applied, Baby Killers. That was the last straw for me to give the civilian world the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't doubt, they simply did not know what they were talking about. I have had to control the Basic Training impulse ( to kill the enemy) and anyone calling me a baby killer and spitting in my face became the enemy for a split second until what little control I had left took over.
The ease in which the general civilian public can apply the next name to combat vets, War Hawk or (anyone who volunteered to do what should be done to eliminate dictators and monstrous regimes).
A crippled " train of thought " exhibited by the " tune in, turn on, and tune out " crowd, only illustrated the shallowness of the the anti-war movement and did little to help. For some reason, they couldn't get it thru their "smoke clouded" heads, that civil up-right man cannot, in good conscience, stand by while " mans inhumanity to man " runs rampant. To them the " war is hell " was the fault of the soldiers. I've actually had people ask me if I enjoyed war?
The war we have to fight now will take all of us, coming together, talking, understanding and leaning on one another to stop this suicide. Here's a start. Because you are my brother, know that the love that our fellowman enjoys, is good, but not as good as someone who understands what is happening to us. Be strong, Believe, and never forget your brothers.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 26 at 2016 9:33 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:33:52 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Every day we are faced with new instances coming to light of how the VA System and Government has failed to live up to its end of the deal with Veteran care. One cannot blame a vet in need of help for being skeptical of a new and improved treatment when past promises have been like toilet paper to politicians. New and improved hoops to jump through with no real hope of a better result would make anyone hesitant to try something new.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Aug 8 at 2017 11:33 AM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 11:33:09 -0400

I tagged need more information because more help is not available. The VA's classes and meetings are held during the week while I am working, I still am working a normal job because I have bills to pay and I can work so I do. The Vet centers locally Vietnam Veterans, Vet Center and the rest who have night time and weekend classes have standards that I do not meet, I was not in boots on the ground COMBAT, or I am not a holder of the Purple Heart, One group only has Army vets. Another group only works with suicidal vets. Sometimes its not that a Vet does not want help, it may be that they cannot find help.

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Aug 8 at 2017 11:36 AM

AA Joseph Moody — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 11:36:48 -0400

First, there is that issue of confidentiality, no matter how careful you are you know that sooner or later someone is going to see you at that shrinks and then the gossip will start, and I suspect we all have seen at least one career that was put into the crap-can because of someone saw something and just had to talk.

But next...it can be hard to talk with someone about something you have normalized. And that first talk you have with someone is almost never intentional, you just say something that you take for granted as being normal while that other person gives you the 'WTF' look.

And last is it damages credibility, and this is something in which anyone who has any toxic relation in their personal or professional life knows that they need to avoid, for instance 5 years ago my landlord knew I was seeing a shrink, and when I complained about a leaking natural gas line and demonstrated to him with a bottle of soapy water that yes it was indeed leaking enough gas to make bubbles, he still was able to dismiss it because he had 'reasonable doubts about my sanity'
And just to give you an idea how much he trusted those doubts rather than the evidence of his own eyes, he would smoke in the area. (2 years later they had to replace all of the pipes) because as he said 'there is no way a crazy person could be right'

Response by SPC Michael Frugoli made Aug 8 at 2017 12:16 PM

SPC Michael Frugoli — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 12:16:50 -0400

Suicide, sadly has been something I've attempted many times. Not proud or anything but my mental state with the ptsd and things in my mind I'm dealing with our out of control at times.

Reaching out to new help is scary. I have had the same doctor since 2011 and have feared seeing or doing something new. But I also don't want to sit in a room full of interns so they can look at me funny and try to determine what's going on in my head.

It's just hard.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Aug 8 at 2017 12:26 PM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 12:26:36 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs Stigma. There are too many stigmas when it comes to getting help. There are stigmas attached to new techniques. There are stigmas attached to asking for help. There are stigmas attached to having a mental health condition (whether genetic or caused by outside stimulus). Until our society can fully accept that mental health is as important (if not more important) than physical health, getting people help is going to continue to be an uphill battle. The best thing we can do is reach out and offer assistance to those in need.

Response by PO2 Jerri Jackson made Aug 8 at 2017 4:31 PM

PO2 Jerri Jackson — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 16:31:14 -0400

When worked with the Fleet & Family Support Center, I saw it as stigma. Members didn't want the negative stigma they thought would be given to them or didn't want it to get back to their commands it work places that they were receiving assistance/help

Response by SSgt Bob Christensen made Aug 8 at 2017 6:05 PM

SSgt Bob Christensen — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 18:05:31 -0400

Not sure why myself. I searched for more info on ways to solve my problem. I just had brain surgery for Trigeminal Neuralgia. They call it the "suicide disease" because 50% of the people that get it kill themselves because they can't handle the pain. I suffered for 1 year and a half. I may have something that can be of help though...just came across it the other day. If you would like info, no drugs, it's (neurotech) safe, natural, and instant wellness. Message me for details as I do not want to spam a link on someone's post.

Response by PO3 Jacob Jenkins made Aug 8 at 2017 6:09 PM

PO3 Jacob Jenkins — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 18:09:01 -0400

I have not dealt with this or run into anybody that has. Of course that is to my knowledge, which is why I chose confidentiality. I think the biggest reason is because the view that is on specific diagnosis. Most veterans that suffer with these still want to contribute to society and with the negative image that has been painted about PTSD prohibits them from doing a lot of things they are able to do. Legally employers are not allowed to pass on an aplicant based on medical but that doesn't mean it isn't a major part of their decision. I believe it would be scary for someone who faces this to feel like they are going to be labeled a certain way once they are diagnosed with something like this.

But all in all I believe this is a mix of all the above because this is a very complicated issue. I think education for both the veteran and the rest of society about what these conditions actually are is a very important step in creating a better situation for those involved.

Response by SSgt Donald Libby made Aug 8 at 2017 6:16 PM

SSgt Donald Libby — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 18:16:15 -0400

The below article goes along with Col Burrough's original question on PTSD.

Report: DoD Not Providing Adequate Care to Troops at Risk of Suicide
Stars and Stripes | 7 Aug 2017 | by Nikki Wentling
WASHINGTON -- Defense Department health care providers do a good job of screening for suicide risk, but they fail to provide critical and effective follow-up treatment to servicemembers identified as suicidal, according to a Rand Corp. report released Monday.

Rand researchers found appropriate follow-up care was given to only 30 percent of servicemembers with depression and 54 percent of servicemembers with post-traumatic stress disorder who were at risk of suicide. The rest did not receive follow-up care or got medication and psychotherapy that has not been proven to help.

The report is based on observations of nearly 39,000 servicemembers with diagnosed PTSD or depression over a one-year period. It's one of the largest evaluations of military mental health care, said Kimberly Hepner, a behavioral scientist and the lead researcher.

"The military health system did quite well in screening for suicide risk," Hepner said. "Where we found they could do better was how the providers responded to servicemembers with suicide risk identified."

The Pentagon asked Rand for an independent report on the care it provides to servicemembers with PTSD and depression.

It's difficult to know how many active-duty servicemembers suffer from PTSD or depression, Hepner said. The report cites between 4 and 20 percent of the more than 2.6 million people who deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq during Operation Enduring Freedom or Operation Iraqi Freedom.

The Department of Veterans Affairs analyzed millions of veterans' records and reported last year an average of 20 veterans died from suicide each day in 2014. While veterans made up about 8.5 percent of the U.S. population in 2014, they accounted for 18 percent of suicides.

Capt. Mike Colston, a psychiatrist and director of Mental Health Programs for the Office of Health Affairs, said the Military Health System has grown exponentially since 9/11, in numbers of providers and patients. Pentagon officials first asked for the review in 2012, he said.

"You don't want to engage an intervention without measuring it," Colston said. "They thought, 'Let's get a real nuts-and-bolts measurement of how we're doing.'"

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 8 at 2017 6:20 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 18:20:00 -0400

There's a number of factors. One of those is not on this list and that would be the stigma attached to asking for help. We're all certified "toughguys(gals)". Some of us were even raised with the impression that asking for help is a weakness. "Toughen up" "Boys don't cry" "Be a Man" We've all heard some variation of these at some point in our life. It may have been directed at us, or at someone we know. So when it comes time for us to address our own problems, we internalize everything to keep ourselves from showing an outward sign of weakness.

Another factor which was on this list. I voted for Trust. Look at the news and everything that's going on with the VA. Veterans killing themselves out in the parking lot. Veterans going in for routine checkups and leaving with debilitating disease exposure. How do we trust our lives to that? VA reform is desperately needed. My knees hurt. Sometimes it's enough to keep me up at night. My mom keeps urging me to go to the VA for treatment. But how can I do that when this is what I see in the news... https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/12/03/VA-dentist-resigns-after-possibly-infecting-600-veterans-with-HIV-and-hepatitis/ [login to see] 71/

As Veterans, how do we trust the people who are supposed to help take care of us when they are doing more harm than good.

VA dentist resigns after possibly infecting 600 veterans with HIV and hepatitis

An unidentified Veterans Affairs dentist in Wisconsin has resigned after potentially exposing hundreds of patients to HIV, hepatitis B and C.

Response by LCpl Emanuel W. made Aug 8 at 2017 7:10 PM

LCpl Emanuel W. — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 19:10:52 -0400

It really all comes down to trust in the care system. It has failed so many of us, so many times that we are afraid to even try anymore. New "patients" see this and they begin to distrust and fear the same happening to them. Some counselors, doctors (med & psych) and medical staff sometimes don't speak behind closed doors or keep their mouths shut as well. So, there's a fear that confidentiality will be broken.

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made Aug 8 at 2017 7:17 PM

PFC Lisa McDonald — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 19:17:08 -0400

My experience is the system plays juggler with you and is not prepared to deal with VA caused issues

Response by Sgt Martin Querin made Aug 8 at 2017 7:44 PM

Sgt Martin Querin — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 19:44:39 -0400

First off, as a fairly new member of the RP program I was unaware of your loss sir. Condolences and respect and honor for your family's for your Father's service and sacrifice to/for our country. Also, thanks for another thoughtful question.

Joining immediately after Viet Nam I served with many Marines suffering from PTSD before it was legitimized as a real illness. Some very scary situations when you're dealing with manic behaviors in a person carrying a loaded weapon, even if they are "on your side"...so then it was the unknown; it wasn't a "sickness" until 1980. And who wants to be classified as mentally sick"?

I think it is how we are made that makes it hard to get help. For many, that training goes to the bone, it becomes a part of our altered DNA. We are taught to bottle it up, suck it up and accomplish the mission. Through the discipline of training we become conditioned to the idea that pain, fear, or emotion are signs of weakness and frailty. So what helps us face and overcome our fears; to overcome it and do more than our weaker mindset could believe was possible, becomes the wall that blocks us from seeking help, or admitting that we need help...to ourselves, or others.

Secondly, it's not like a bullet wound, or broken leg, something that you can see by examination or in a MRI, or x-ray. You're not going to get a purple heart for having a wounded mind. You're going to be questioned, your sense of worth is going to be diminished by the process of proving your need. Even if all you need is some friendly support, if you're diagnosed you could be safe to yourself and everyone else, but you will carry a stigma. You cannot legally own a firearm. You're marked as damaged goods; even if that's not true, you believe it.

Lastly, some have lost so many close friends, that while their bonds in combat are tight because of their warrior credo, fighting for the guy to their left or right; they do not commit to deep friendships...maybe don't even know what that looks like. They share their military brotherhood, but they do not allow themselves to look deep into their hearts, let alone letting anyone else in. And what is needed more than anything in these situations is connections, connections to all kinds of people, not just other current and former military, but to anybody and everybody that can help re-establish your sense of worth beyond your service; because if that's all I have, then when I don't have that what's left?

I think it is changing, and many of the programs you mentioned and platforms like RP are doing a lot of good work to change that. I look forward to the day when the attrition in our military is solely due to the intensity of battle and not the intensity of depression, fear, loss of self value and loneliness.

Martin
Semper Fi

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Aug 8 at 2017 11:18 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 23:18:16 -0400

Lack of information, trust, fear, and perhaps the biggest and most destructive one, pride.

Response by Debbie Pomeroy Cloud made Aug 9 at 2017 12:14 AM

Debbie Pomeroy Cloud — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 00:14:29 -0400

GOES hand in hand with the fact ethics is at an all time low. There can be no real help if you do not trust your providers. I am working for setting up an early intervention for families to spot the subtle trigger signs and find ways to stabilize family in the healing process. America is made up of families. Destroying families is destroying the fabric of our country. Warriors beed to feel safe and have people they trust to help them survive the complex PTSI. Prayers until more resolution is found!

Response by SSG William Norris made Aug 9 at 2017 2:24 AM

SSG William Norris — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 02:24:07 -0400

I believe that there are multiple reasons for it. All revolving around fear and trust. Fear of not trusting people to keep it confidential, fear of losing certain rights, fear of losing family and friends, and the list goes on. There is not just one catch all reason.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2017 10:02 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 10:02:29 -0400

Trust in most cases i Veterans feel uncomfortable disclosing to someone who has no clue what you went through, most counselors have never served so with them it's more mental then trauma. Trust I would say.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Aug 9 at 2017 10:39 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 10:39:02 -0400

It'd be nice to be allowed to vote on more than one.. jus' saying because oft times it is more than one reason, Colonel....

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Aug 9 at 2017 10:42 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 10:42:34 -0400

I suppose pride and not admitting they need to confide and if they do.. they get handed off like a sack of potatoes..

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 9 at 2017 10:47 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 10:47:48 -0400

It is a multi-headed Demon. It is extremely frustrating and nerve racking to even try to discuss this with a civilian who "has no clue!" Get damn tired of folks wanting to throw a label on you and file you away on a shelf, supposing that once your labeled you are helped/cured. Just as bad are the idiots who think/say "you'll get over it, or just get over it, that's ancient history". VA is trying to be helpful, but I have gone thru 3 counselors/?? in 10 years- 2 were civilians. It takes great amount of time to build trust and just talking about it brings back memories that are too vivid. I have had great help with Vet Peer groups, cause we all have "seen the elephant" regardless of service. There is always that question cropping up with the VA about having guns, which makes you think that a SWAT team will raid your house one day. It is also very hard to get the VA from dumping a pound of pills in your hand and saying, come back if this doesn't work, leaving a walking zombie.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Aug 9 at 2017 12:01 PM

1SG James Matthews — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 12:01:26 -0400

Went to VA one time in Hammond, La. Had to see a civilian shrink since I was a VN vet and had not been there before. He ask me a bunch of questions and said I had a touch of PTSD- this was in 2006. Told him I retired in 81 and if I had PTSD it was because of folks like him. Haven't been back and won't go back.

Response by PFC Eric Parrish made Aug 9 at 2017 12:31 PM

PFC Eric Parrish — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 12:31:13 -0400

It is a trust issue. You try to explain what is going on. Not many really get it . Others try to put you in a box. Obviously, you are a dick to everyone you meet and you're a wife beater who cant cope with anything life throws at you. In their eyes you must be some sort of broken criminal minded POS. When all you want to do is connect and count for something. Sometimes you just cant wrap your brain around why things happen the way they do and wonder if you are broken beyond repair.

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Aug 12 at 2017 10:47 PM

Capt Christian D. Orr — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 22:47:59 -0400

Speaking myself as someone was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (G.A.D.) back when I was still in active-duty, I'd say a major factor is fear of (1) social stigma and (2) negative career impact. Regarding item #1, think back to the Vietnam War and how the entertainment industry loved to routinely depict that war's veterans as crazies and psychos.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 8:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 20:58:40 -0400

I think it's trust issues............ Some docs out there try to down play the issue for what it really is.............

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 24 at 2017 6:47 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:47:19 -0400

Oh Goodie, another chance to post/ or have posted, my information. Rather than improve their care the VA starts program after program, going back to start every time. Do the things you do well new programs is not one of them

Response by SPC Todd Rhoades made Sep 4 at 2017 1:15 AM

SPC Todd Rhoades — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 01:15:46 -0400

I can only comment on my experience with the VA as being frustrating. There is a VA hospital 20 miles from my house in Ft Wayne, yet for the first 4 years, I was required to drive 120 miles to another one in Indianapolis for re-evaluation. Then the fifth year to the Ft Wayne facility. At first I thought maybe Ft Wayne wasn't equipped and didn't really have issue with the drive. After being seen, not really evaluated, for 4 years in Indy, then receiving the same in Ft Wayne, I basically came to the conclusion they didn't really care, just give the man a check. In reality, what I desired was treatment. Now 27 years later, the injury has created further issues. As I told you in our private conversation, I was recalled for Desert Storm while on comp and informed in processing to no avail and placed in a light Sapper unit. There was some good that came out of it when I reinjured my leg, this time it was properly diagnosed and I received physical therapy. Even after informing the VA at my next re-evaluation, they did nothing but send a check.
I believe that several feel this frustration and simply give up as I did. They tell us it is being improved, I can only say, that when I stopped the other day to get a new ID card, it seemed more a bit more efficient, but the only staff that bothered to acknowledge me were the lady at reception, the police officer I asked for directions and the gentleman that waited on me. There was at least a half dozen others, admin and medical staff, that looked right through me as they walked by. I receive more common courtesy at our local hospital, where they don't even know I'm a veteran. It is sad that the people being paid to care for our warriors can't even offer a greeting of the day.

Response by AA Whitney-Elizabeth Moates made Sep 4 at 2017 1:43 AM

AA Whitney-Elizabeth Moates — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 01:43:23 -0400

I've been dealing with my issues going on close to 20 years and refuse to step foot in a VA hospital after what happened to me in Hershey PA one. I have treatment I have been receiving since 2001 privately. I refuse to let someone else make me feel like I'm crap and deserving of another's misguided treatment 20 years ago like the so called therapist did at the VA. Thanks but no thanks, I'll be able to get myself together and keep it together.

Response by SPC Todd Rhoades made Sep 4 at 2017 4:50 AM

SPC Todd Rhoades — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 04:50:54 -0400

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Sep 4 at 2017 9:46 AM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 09:46:29 -0400

Burn out... spent over 20 years being told there was no such thing as PTSD and being labelled as "Delayed Stress Reaction" or "Mixed Personality Disorders with Explosive Features" ... then, lo & behold, it's decided there *IS* such a thing as PTSD and brother have YOU got it!

Thanks.

Now every couple of years they discover a "new and improved" treatment regime that will make it all better. Problem is, it's usually the same old thing with a bright, shiney new name.

I'm tired of being some psychology grad-students' guinea pig. I've been a "client" of EVERY VA facility on the west coast & several on the east coast.

I'm just tired...

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made Sep 13 at 2017 3:09 PM

SGT Anna Kleinschmidt — Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:09:55 -0400

I was getting help and I saw that my councilor had written that I blamed my son for my problems when I had said his using drugs was not helping the situation. How can you maintain trust when your words are twisted like that.

Response by SGT Charles H. Hawes made Sep 21 at 2017 12:55 AM

SGT Charles H. Hawes — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:55:09 -0400

When I got out of the military and did my exit physical i told the doctor about some of my issues and he basically laughed in my face. I'm older now and don't want to go through the hassle of having another doctor make excuses.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 25 at 2018 2:48 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:48:26 -0400

I used to be one of them big bad senior sergeant who did think I had problem until my wife came to said, YOU THINK ANOTHER DEPLOYMENT IS GOING TO KILL YOU? I thought about because I never told anyone I had PTSD but some knew I had problems with dealing with my anger problems. A lot of people think they are too good to tell anyone whats going on in their mind. So people live to far for the VA or they are in a state where the VA is so sorry they won't help them. Many reason but some people are just to lazy to get up off the couch and bring themselves to reality and say they have a problem.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Oct 25 at 2018 10:25 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:25:00 -0400

Frankly - if you haven't been there you won't understand. I had an unnessary surgery done on my right forearm where the MD afterwards made the mention that the procedure worked on 97% of elderly people.
He completely ignored the fact they my injury was not an elderly person's aging injury but a wound to my right forearm that happened 35 years ago.
Pretty sure the system ran me into and out of the surgeon's hand without reading the background on why I had no feeling in my right pinkie and right ring finger.
Tricare paid for it all, but sheez.

Response by 1SG Tommy McGee made Apr 6 at 2020 10:27 PM

1SG Tommy McGee — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 22:27:50 -0400

It’s hard to put your trust in a person or a system that may or may not let you down. We are not trained to be sick, hurt, or tired. We are trained to complete our next mission and then the next so on and so on. We are not training to quit! While in service we don’t have the luxury to call in sick or go to the medical services for every sneeze or cough or headache or fever, especially in the combat zone. We suck it up and continue the mission.
When we get home and ETS or retire we often do not have the “proof” of our wounds, scars, TBI, PTSD, explosions under your vehicle or mortars or artillery landing danger close......and why? Because we continue our mission and honorably serve our country and take pride in our time in service.
I thank you for your service, every veteran and current service member.

Response by TSgt Jodi Johnson made Apr 7 at 2020 2:33 AM

TSgt Jodi Johnson — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 02:33:15 -0400

Shame

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2020 12:42 PM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:42:54 -0400

It's trust; the fear that they are not able to trust someone or that person they are reaching out to will either break or warp their trust. There is also a lack of trust if the individual they are working with has not served or had a loved one serve as well as the perception leans toward the individual not fully understanding.

Response by SFC Mitch Snow made Jun 30 at 2020 1:28 AM

SFC Mitch Snow — Tue, 30 Jun 2020 01:28:54 -0400

I have a TBI. Also suffered a fractured neck, back, skull, knees and both heal bones. Now, you would think the VA would look at the xrays and put 2 & 2 together. But for 20 years they insisted my pain and injuries were psychosomatic. And by doing so, they denied me treatment that could have helped me. Worse, is they enforced a negative stereotype that is already widely held by many civilians and in acadamia; "that all veterans are mental derelicts"... Worse than that, they have willfully reported that I had depression to federal authorities for the specific reason of restraining me from weapons. As they have done with most veterans. So, now there are "new programs" run by the same people, looking to hold on to their jobs after their inadequate care has been exposed? Interesting... let me know how it goes. i am still waiting for them to recognise depression, sleeplessness, and headaches are signs of TBI and not PTSD. - btw, I am a non-combat veteran.