What are your opinions on military personnel that post "Not Our War" photos on social media?

2014-08-03T22:17:45-04:00

Honestly, I'm torn on this. I applaud them for flexing their 1st amendment right to free speech as should anyone that supports & defends the constitution; but I question their purpose for being in the military if they're against fighting & dying; anyone with common sense would know that such things always have a possibility of occurring when one is serving in the military.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 7:57 PM

2014-10-30T19:57:03-04:00

It is not professional or appropriate to be in uniform and protest. It should be done as individuals in civilian clothes and done without violating the UCMJ or other regulations.

Response by SGT Darla Jarvie made Oct 30 at 2014 10:13 PM

2014-10-30T22:13:48-04:00

Soldiers took an oath to defend all enemy's foreign and domestic and to obey the orders of the superior. This oath should be taken seriously and voicing our opinions on political actions should be done without showing the military status or disrespect to our leaders and their decisions.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2014 10:54 PM

2014-10-30T22:54:23-04:00

Shouldn't be done, Period!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 12:39 AM

2014-10-31T00:39:14-04:00

There's a fair amount of evidence that at least some of these "service member" photos protesting our potential/actual involvement in Syria/Ukraine/West Africa/etc... are actually modern versions of such WWII efforts as Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally. It is distinctly possible that some are legitimate - actual US personnel posting their opposition in a very public fashion.

Do they have the right to protest policy in uniform? No, I don't think they do. Indicating an intent to refuse a legal order is not quite a violation of the UCMJ, but it is close. If they actually feel this strongly, they should identify themselves and face the consequences of failing to follow an order (violation of UCMJ Article 92).

Response by PO1 Phil Audritsh made Oct 31 at 2014 12:43 AM

2014-10-31T00:43:29-04:00

It isn't appropriate to do this in uniform. Should be done without military affiliation being brought into the debate. The role of the military is changing; it may not be the same as when the service member originally joined and thusly maybe the disgruntled people should get out of the military.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Oct 31 at 2014 12:48 PM

2014-10-31T12:48:25-04:00

Sorry in my day in the Marine Corps we would have busted on him like he was a coward...
NO MARINE CORPS CORPORAL WOULD EVER WRITE THAT SHIT AND THEN HIDE HIS FACE LIKE A COWARD..............

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-10-31T13:15:08-04:00

PFC Eric Minchey, my opinion is that this sort of image sends the wrong message. If that individual is a real Soldier, he is saying he intends to violate the oath he took when he enlisted or reenlisted, or at least implying that. Remember the part about "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me"?

I gotta "vote" against this sort of thing, whether it's protected as free speech or not.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 2:59 PM

2014-10-31T14:59:15-04:00

I imagine the number of those who signed up to fight and die is low. We signed up to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It just so happens that we do that by killing people and blowing stuff up.

Having said that, not only is it not this soldier’s place to decide what he will or will not fight for without serious repercussions, it is not in his scope to question where the fighting and dying is going to take place. And he, as well as others, shouldn’t be doing it in uniform. It creates doubt in the service and the chain of command. But if he feels compelled to do so, like SSG Maurice P. said, he shouldn’t hide behind a piece of paper.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 3:22 PM

2014-10-31T15:22:21-04:00

If you don't like what you're country is asking you to do, you shouldn't sign up. Unlawful orders aside, of course. It's inappropriate (IMO) for a SM to do this period. Keep your opinion to yourself.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 5:27 PM

2014-10-31T17:27:18-04:00

They need to drop their packet requesting a discharge for conscientious objector or whatever and they can get the **** out of the Army or whatever service branch they belong to. I have no tolerance for cowards, I don't care if their expressing their views or what not.

You should have never signed the contract, you should have never sworn an oath.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2014 6:26 PM

2014-10-31T18:26:56-04:00

Pretty simple. If you don't want to do the job as your boss tells you, find another job. No one is "forced" to be in the military right now. Go to your Chain of Command, tell them you want out. Make room for the people who want to stay.

You get a vote at election time. The guy that gets elected calls the shots. Still don't like it? Run for President. Good luck.

I also have a problem with people who pretend to be brave by making a statement but then hide their identity. These people obviously don't have the courage to back up their words. That doesn't give them much credibility when they don't value their opinion enough to stick their neck out there.

Is there a risk for speaking your mind? Of course! Welcome to the real world. No re-spawns. No power-ups. No character recreations. You take your single life down a path and you deal with the consequences.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2014 2:49 AM

2014-11-01T02:49:57-04:00

He is a disgrace to the uniform. First it is our job as part of NATO and the UN to be called upon on the world police. Showing dissention in the ranks is not the way to go about his disagreement. You wont fight or die for this....then get your ass of the Army. Worthless punk.

Response by Col Stan VanderWerf made Nov 1 at 2014 6:52 PM

2014-11-01T18:52:11-04:00

It is actually dangerous, in my view, to voice any views like this while in uniform. Certainly OK when on your own time and in your own clothes, but if interviewed, you may need to state it is your own view only.

Only our political leaders can determine if we are in, or not in a war. Our job when in uniform is to carry out all lawful orders whether they fit our personal views or not.

Protesting a war while in uniform is only one step away from supporting one candidate over another while in uniform. And one of the most dangerous things the military can do is get involved in politics. If we ever let ourselves go down that slippery slope, a military coup will not be long in coming, and then the country will be lost.

So let's stay away from these transgressions...far far away. We have an awesome reputation in the military and it is due, at least in part, because we stay far away from these other issues.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 12:52 PM

2014-11-02T12:52:17-05:00

COWARDS ! If you didn't want to serve in war, you never should have joined the ARMED FORCES. Then to be such a coward that you wont show your face or name? Pathetic.

Response by SSG John Erny made Nov 3 at 2014 10:50 AM

2014-11-03T10:50:12-05:00

His conduct is unbecoming of a soldier, if he is in fact one of us. The code pink types will stoop pretty low.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Nov 3 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-11-03T13:15:37-05:00

The largest issue to this thing is that the message by wearing the uniform to publicly display their OWN personal opinion is a clouding the message to civilians. The public we serve in our country do not expect us to say or do these things that we swore to uphold, regardless of who is the POTUS/CINC. The uniform gives by its very own nature and respect validity to a personal opinion of one as if it was a PROFESSIONAL OPINION of all of us in uniform. It clearly is not.

The same issue comes up in the political circles of opinion, just because I did or did not vote for who serves as CINC doesn't give me the right to bash or decry foul lay if I disagree, my oath is solid and these folks need to get with the program or move on.

Response by SSG Jim Foreman made Nov 3 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-11-03T14:24:49-05:00

I think it is wrong to voice your opinion when in uniform. No one forced him/her to enlist. If you are going to open your mouth have the guts to show your face.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 3 at 2014 2:35 PM

2014-11-03T14:35:45-05:00

NOOOOOOOO - Not in uniform - Plain and Simple - If you want to do this go ahead in civilian clothes with no mention you are a member of the military. If I found out one of my Soldiers did this I would make sure they received the appropriate UCMJ Punishment.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 7:09 PM

2014-11-03T19:09:12-05:00

I have two issues with this other than the cowardly posting of pictures and not showing your face.
I am first generation American born from a Polish family. My family suffered the invasions of both the Russians and the Germans. We lost family in concentration camps in Poland and from just fighting to save our land.
These young bucks need to do a little history training if they think this will turn out good for the people of the Ukraine or Poland.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 7:31 PM

2014-11-03T19:31:49-05:00

When you enlist into the US Military, you willingly give up your freedom of speech and pretty much any right to self expression in order to be the true professional at arms that is expected of you. At that point, you also willingly give up any right you have to deny to do your assigned duty. No one forced you to raise your right hand and swear to abide by all the rules and regulations set forth for whichever branch you swore you allegiance to. If you are scared of war, scared of the possibility of being sent out to fight in any given conflict at any given time, then perhaps this is not the right career path for you. I'm afraid to say, you are not what we are looking for. Now, by no means am I saying that you have to be a "Yes Man," but you have to pick and chose your battles, and opposing the orders of those appointed over you is not one of those battles, unless they are unlawful. You don't always have to agree with what it is you are ordered to do, but if you hate it that much, don't hide like a coward behind a Facebook post thinking you are something great, when in reality, you are just looking for attention and a shoulder to cry on. Pack your bags, talk to your retention NCO or immediate supervisor and arrange a 1-way ticket to Fort Couch so someone else that wants to be in this great military can advance without having to wait for you to stop wasting our oxygen.

Response by PO1 Michael G. made Nov 3 at 2014 8:15 PM

2014-11-03T20:15:38-05:00

I agree with others who have pointed out that it is unprofessional and inappropriate to protest in uniform. I also find it highly disrespectful and fairly cowardly to do so as well. I feel that it's disrespectful because it uses the uniform as a prop. It also indirectly discourages debate on the topic among that service member's social media contacts, as though the protesting service member is using their uniform to cloak their individual opinion in the auspice of military professional knowledge; I would say that smacks of intellectual cowardice because it belies an unwillingness to actually engage and debate on the topic.

There's also something to be said for the fact that protesting at all is not the wisest thing to do for a service member. Not that our opinions ought to be silenced while we're serving in the military, but what if we do end up in armed conflict after service members have been publicly protesting it? Are some people going to doubt that service member's resolve or loyalty? I'd rather not have that even be a factor, and one of the ways that each individual can curtail that is to not be making public protests, certainly not ones that disrespect our uniform.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 8:23 PM

2014-11-03T20:23:23-05:00

Two things come to mind and first is an anonymous picture. With the stolen valor we just are not sure. Even more disgusting is the idea that free expression is being censored and worse than any time that I can remember back to around 1974. Forty years later and we see this time and again and now again they treat military so awfully. I cannot see why anyone would vote for a person, (usually a democrat) who takes away benefits. And more than that, stabs us in the back, taking away benefits. This is a special job and we deserve to be proud and represent all our veterans with hardly any exceptions.

Response by SSG Jay OConnor made Nov 3 at 2014 10:07 PM

2014-11-03T22:07:49-05:00

I too am torn on this issue. On one hand you joined the service to do your country's bidding. To do what is necessary according to your leaders. On the other hand, there are some instances that I completely understand the defiance. If I am deployed and my platoon sergeant has no combat experience and he/she is instructing my platoon to go on a convoy without bolts in our weapons, I would not comply and would gladly face punishment just to make it national news. Leadership like that needs to be exposed. Just as if a country's top leaders sends troops to a country to fight a war under false pretenses in order to secure certain resources.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 10:38 PM

2014-11-03T22:38:23-05:00

This, I'm not torn on. All these kids, who sign up for tuition-free college, have the same looks on their faces. "Going to fight in Iraq? Nope. I just wanted the GI Bill." It's like they don't even know what the military does. This isn't an organization funded to send folks to college. There are less complicated ways of doing that. But it never fails. There are always a few that are absolutely shocked when orders come down the chain, for them to do...military stuff.
These people are an insult to everybody who has come before them, who didn't have the "right" to object. Or who signed up, with full knowledge that they may die in the line of duty. And those who did. Bullshit.
I may seem heartless, but this is one of my non-compromising areas. There is no gray to me. The chapter process could not begin soon enough. This attitude is infectious and nowhere in the ballpark of compatibility with military service.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 10:41 PM

2014-11-03T22:41:20-05:00

Nope I can't applaud him for his actions. If you want to flex your 1st amendment rights do it in civvies. You are in the U.S. Military it is your job to obey legal orders and defend the constitution. It's not our job to politic in uniform. Just do the job assigned popular or not. If you are not willing to do that then you are free to leave at the end of your enlistment. Or I suppose become a conscientious objector.

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Nov 3 at 2014 10:56 PM

2014-11-03T22:56:10-05:00

It is alright to have an opinion, however, they made an oath and it is not their decision as to where the battles are fought, or who the battle is with.

Nowhere in the oath of enlistment does it say they get to choose the battles. If they didn't want to fight then they should have stayed in their mothers womb.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 2:23 PM

2014-12-28T14:23:14-05:00

It's very simple! Don't do it! Americas agenda is not your decision it not is appropriate for anyone to post anti war pics if you are serving in the Military period! Everyone joined the Military voluntarily. If you're not happy with what we are doing, get out and express your opinion then. It sets a bad precedence when we have Military members EXPRESSING their opinions against our superiors decisions.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 28 at 2014 3:40 PM

2014-12-28T15:40:57-05:00

My biggest issue with this photo is the uniform. We all know since they taught us in Boot Camp. the uniform can't be used in this manor. It was unproffesional. If you don't want to go to war popular or unpopular then don't join the military. Personal would I want to take part in the Ukraine problem no. but they are a alliance and are being targeted. so if I was active duty and told you are going I I would go. Not post a picture like above and look like a moron.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 3:55 PM

2014-12-28T15:55:38-05:00

There is nothing to be torn about this particular post. It's against UCMJ to participate in political protests in uniform, period. If a service member wants to exercise there rights, do so as a civilian, OUT OF UNIFORM! I will not use my grade nor my position to attain pleasure, profit or personal safety...I think heard that somewhere...

Response by SSgt Stevan Auldridge made Dec 28 at 2014 4:47 PM

2014-12-28T16:47:24-05:00

Get out of the military because that's not your job to chose who and where you fight.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2014 4:47 PM

2014-12-28T16:47:46-05:00

If you don't like it. Don't hide your face and you won't have to worry about any fighting. It offends me that people do this. You joined the military. Get the @#$@ over it. Quit acting like a $%@*4(@ baby.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 5:37 PM

2014-12-30T17:37:06-05:00

I have NO RESPECT for the people that do this. Not only do they dishonor the uniform and those who came before us, but by hiding their faces and name tapes, they show that they are cowards.

IF an issue is SO egregious to you that you feel the need to protest in uniform, own up to your "morals and convictions" and show your face (and be willing to accept the repercussions of your actions).

Last but not least, when you enlisted (or accepted a commission), you swore an oath to defend. If you find that you are incapable of doing so, for whatever reason, declare as an objector and get the hell out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 5:38 PM

2014-12-30T17:38:39-05:00

Thank you for shearing.
This "soldier" in the photo make me so upset!
I hope he will be dealt with. And polished acordenly

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Dec 30 at 2014 6:24 PM

2014-12-30T18:24:37-05:00

Eric... Spot on about serving and the common sense factor about the fact that... You may be required to make the ultimate sacrifice. If you can do that, or become unwilling to do that... Its time to "punch out" and ETS.

Here is the challenge. Most people won't say this; however, a wise PSG I had said, we protect the rights of Americans... But we surrender some of our Constitutional Rights while we serve.

Before anyone gets upset I would ask that you take a little time and read the Manual of Courts Martial. We do and that is a fact and one that I gladly lived with for 22 years.

Now... The SPC in the photo. We should not do what this SPC is doing. He is in violation of UCMJ... We are forbidden to protest in uniform. And I personally think even less of Him because... A. He is in uniform. B. He is afraid to show his face. C. He embarrassed a uniut I served with for 11 of my 22 years.

Bottom line at the bottom... Don't be torn on this subject. He is in violation of not only the UCMJ but also the Soldiers Creed and the Army Values and does not deserve your admiration.

My 2 cents

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Dec 31 at 2014 10:43 AM

2014-12-31T10:43:25-05:00

To a point they have a right to say what they feel/believe, having said that ...what the hell are they doing in the MIlitary???? I disagreed with lots of things but knew my top priority was my contract with Uncle Sam.I am a civilian now and do not have that contract anymore and feel that YES we are not where we should be in the world today and should look in our own back yards 1st and foremost, but at the end of the day my heart still belongs to the millions who look up to the military and give them hope that they can sleep even if just a little bit better. Now...there is just the issue of a changing for the worst military system to over come and my getting fixed and Im your huckleberry !!!!!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2014 12:19 PM

2014-12-31T12:19:12-05:00

Look everyone has choices. This toolbag's choice was to put his coward panties on and hide his weak-sauce "1st amendment" practicing high speediness behind a piece of poster board claiming that he isn't going to do something. First...not supposed to do it in uniform, but I'm going off the assumption that this guy is one of those barracks lawyers that I take the big-red book of doom to on a regular basis, and he's just waiting for his turn with the UCMJ...so he thinks he knows what he's doing. Then...ok...once again, you have a choice. If the President or congress says we are going to the Ukraine...guess what "poster face dirt bag?" Your happy a$$ is going to Ukraine...or to Leavenworth. Take your pick. We all have choices, but with choices come consequences. It's easy for this guy to take this stance behind a sign when there are no consequences...when it really matters, he'll fold like a Walmart lawnchair, because if he had an inch of intestinal fortitude, he'd really take a stand and put that sign down and say what he means...because he believes it's right and he's willing to sacrifice for it. He's a coward. They all are.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Dec 31 at 2014 1:12 PM

2014-12-31T13:12:29-05:00

Wow,

This soldier needs some face time in the front leaning rest...

First off... this soldier has no clue what they are even doing.
"Deploying to the Ukraine" is not a "going into a war with Russia".
This is a 'thin Green line' of US troops in a country where Russia is just a little bit out of control
It is NOT patrolling in full IBA in a dusty country where every pile of rocks is looked at with a certain suspicion and the days seem to blend into each other sometimes.

Second... a SPC in a combat Division such as the 101st should have a very good concept of what is happening and what they doing are stationed with such a unit. My guess is that this is a newbie from a not-so-focused unit previously.

Third... this soldier is obviously scared and probably needs some personal counseling... some time to adjust to the fact that they are a soldier in the US Military. This soldier needs to focus on the fact that the soldiers around them need to know they can trust and depend upon them in times of danger and uncertainty.

I agree this soldier should look at not re-enlisting, but chaptering this soldier out is something that does not happen overnight and their battle buddies need to know they can count on this person in the meantime.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Jan 4 at 2015 5:37 PM

2015-01-04T17:37:09-05:00

I guess it depends on if you feel this falls under a "Lawful" order or not. As Military Personnel we are to trained and told that unlawful orders are NOT to be obeyed. Many of us are not lawyers and sometimes cannot differentiate if an order is lawful or not. We sometimes confuse lawful with moral. Personally, I feel that when we went into Iraq, it was to get Saddam Hussein. Once that goal was accomplished, everything after that was 'unlawful' and therefore everyone posting "Not Our War" photos on social media were well within their rights.
However, hindsight being 20/20, now that we now found the WMD in Syria (believed to originate in Iraq & moved to Syria) we it was right, but that was just a stroke of luck.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2015 2:08 AM

2015-01-06T02:08:15-05:00

This is the generation of Soldiers today, it is all about look at me for what I do well, but don't look at me when I want to do something else.
If you want to really flex your rights and your beliefs than stand up and make a statement about how you believe we fix something that you believe is broken. If all your going to do is say is something is wrong, then you are actually part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 4:00 AM

2015-01-07T04:00:40-05:00

When you sign up - you acknowledge the possibility of dying but to me no greater form of love can be shown for the constitution than a willingness to die for such ideas. In my opinion if you love the constitution you will sacrifice your life for it.

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Mar 14 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-03-14T12:57:50-04:00

While I support anyone's 1st Amendment rights, I can't support this.

Speaking out against involvement in Ukraine is fine, but not while in uniform. Doing so dishonors all those who have served, fought, were injured, or died doing so before you.

When orders came through, I find these individuals and send them first!