What are your thoughts on active members of the military joining veteran motorcycle groups?

2014-03-26T11:49:30-04:00

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</font><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">There are many Veteran motorcycle groups / clubs out there
(Warrior Brotherhood, Combat Veterans Association and many other small ones)
Without taking away from any one organization what does the community thing of
active military participating with these groups. As far as I can tell there is
nothing that says no. I have talked to a couple of my PM friends and they say
the same thing. What are the group’s thoughts?<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></i></font></font></font></p><font color="#000000" size="3" face="Times New Roman">

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 12:42 PM

2014-03-26T12:42:45-04:00

As long as it does not take away from the military or condone anything that goes against our ethos, why not?

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Apr 4 at 2014 3:14 PM

2014-04-04T15:14:56-04:00

<div>MSG William has a very good point. As an avid Harley owner and member of a club (Law Enforcement), I think the big question is:  How do we monitor what club they belong to.  </div><div><br></div><div>In the early to mid 80's I had a Retired E-8 working for me.  He was a member of one of the Big 4 outlaw clubs.  We didn't know it until he was involved in a criminal situation that brought it to light. We were in positions that required "Q" clearances. The majority of the  team consisted of people that had come from what is now considered Tier One Units and had Top Secret SCI clearances.</div><div><br></div><div>The clubs you mentioned are social in nature.  How do we monitor the membership?</div>

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2014 3:24 PM

2014-04-04T15:24:54-04:00

MSG Frank, one postive aspect I have seen come from veteran motorcycle groups is that some of them partner rather well with other veteran groups, such as the VFW.  As far as active military participation, I can't really see too many problems arising, as long as the groups avoid any and all illegal activities.  Although my knowledge is limited, I know many of these groups are proud military supporters and I can't find much fault with an organization that offers veterans and active military members fraternal commraderie based off of a shared interest.  If I had a Soldier who wanted to ride on the weekends with the CVA, I would encourage them to have fun in a responsible manner and stay safe.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 4 at 2014 3:41 PM

2014-04-04T15:41:49-04:00

I do not see any issue with them belonging to one of the many veteran clubs out there; as long as the individual is not doing anything that discredits the Army, then there should not be a problem.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2014 1:15 PM

2014-04-05T13:15:05-04:00

If it's not a 1% club then I see no issue with it. 

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-06-13T12:06:02-04:00

I thought about making this a separate question, but this forum will do as well. What Motorcycle Club/Riding Club do you belong to? Active Duty/retired/veteran? I have been approached by a few clubs and waffle on whether to join any of them. Would appreciate feedback.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 13 at 2014 12:08 PM

2014-06-13T12:08:41-04:00

As long as they aren't doing anything that is illegal and/or immoral, affects your ability to perform your duty, or brings embarrassment to the service, what you do in your personal life is none of my business.

Response by SFC Derek Ashman made Aug 19 at 2014 3:15 PM

2014-08-19T15:15:36-04:00

MSG Franks,
I do not see anything wrong with active duty join these groups. I myself who is active duty belong to a veteran motorcycle group called Veterans Enforecers Motorcycle Association. The purpose for our group is to give back to our vets, police, fireman, and first responders. We raise money and awerness for charities and problems like PTSD. Thats why alot of active military joining these groups to give back to our brothers and sisters who need help.

Response by 1SG David Niles made Oct 26 at 2014 9:02 PM

2014-10-26T21:02:17-04:00

I have no issue as long as they are not part of a 1% or a supporter of a 1%, then go for it.

Response by Holly Teel made Jan 8 at 2016 12:45 PM

2016-01-08T12:45:43-05:00

As an Army wife, that was raped on Ft Hood by a so called group ( Gang lets call it what it is) I have watched many diamonds come on and off the base, I also know what a 1% tat and colors look like along with the 13% ( support group for those that do not know) It saddens me to see so many SFCs on hear not know the ARs on this. Just remember one day it may be you deployed and those so called brother bikers, rape and drug your wife, or how about that so called MP hooker ring on FT Hood ran by Bikers. Wake up, those things look bad on the ARMY and should not and I hope will not any longer be accepted as part of the norm, to join while your active or when you get out. There are so many other ways to become part of the community and ride a bike besides putting a patch on and acting like fools and Government trained terror on bikes, it sick to see how many didn't even make 10 years and yet they are out getting benefits and wearing patches and 1% tattoos and getting paid for nothing. Yet the real men and women that deserve to be seen at the VA wait hours cause some idiot on a bike crashes because he was drinking, speeding, belonging to a gang. Lets look at this closely. Army Regulation 600-20, Army Command Policy, dated 7 July 2006:
4-12. Extremist organizations and activities

Participation in extremist organizations and activities by Army personnel is inconsistent with the responsibilities of military service. It is the policy of the United States Army to provide equal opportunity and treatment for all Soldiers without regard to race, color, religion, gender, or national origin. Enforcement of this policy is a responsibility of command, is vitally important to unit cohesion and morale, and is essential to the Army's ability to accomplish its mission. It is the commander's responsibility to maintain good order and discipline in the unit. Every commander has the inherent authority to take appropriate actions to accomplish this goal. This paragraph identifies prohibited actions by Soldiers involving extremist organizations, discusses the authority of the commander to establish other prohibitions, and establishes that violations of prohibitions contained in this paragraph or those established by a commander may result in prosecution under various provisions of the UCMJ. This paragraph must be used in conjunction with DODD 1325.6, Subject: Guidelines for Handling Dissident and Protest Activities Among Members of the Armed Forces. DA Pam 600-15 provides guidance in implementing Army policy on extremist activities and organizations.

a. Participation. Military personnel must reject participation in extremist organizations and activities. Extremist organizations and activities are ones that advocate racial, gender, or ethnic hatred or intolerance; advocate, create, or engage in illegal discrimination based on race, color, gender, religion, or national origin, or advocate the use of or use force or violence or unlawful means to deprive individuals of their rights under the United States Constitution or the laws of the United States, or any State, by unlawful means.

b. Prohibitions. Soldiers are prohibited from the following actions in support of extremist organizations or activities. Penalties for violations of these prohibitions include the full range of statutory and regulatory sanctions, both criminal (UCMJ), and administrative.

(1) Participating in public demonstrations or rallies.

(2) Attending a meeting or activity with the knowledge that the meeting or activity involves an extremist cause when on duty, when in uniform, when in a foreign country (whether on or off duty or in or out of uniform), when it constitutes a breach of law and order, or when it is likely to result in violence or when in violation of off limits sanctions or commander's order.

(3) Fund raising activities.

(4) Recruiting or training members (including encouraging other Soldiers to join).

(5) Creating, organizing, or taking a visible leadership role in such an organization or activity.

(6) Distributing literature on or off a military installation, the primary purpose and content of which concerns advocacy or support of extremist causes, organizations, or activities; and it appears that the literature presents a clear danger to the loyalty, discipline, or morale of military personnel, or the distribution would materially interfere with the accomplishment of a military mission.

c. Command authority. Commanders have the authority to prohibit military personnel from engaging in or participating in any other activities that the commander determines will adversely affect good order and discipline or morale within the command. This includes, but is not limited to, the authority to order the removal of symbols, flags, posters, or other displays from barracks, to place areas or activities off-limits (see AR 190-24 ), or to order Soldiers not to participate in those activities that are contrary to good order and discipline or morale of the unit or pose a threat to health, safety, and security of military personnel or a military installation.

d. Command options. Commander's options for dealing with a Soldier's violation of the prohibitions include -

(1) UCMJ action - Possible violations include the following:

(a) Article 92 - Violation or failure to obey a lawful general order or regulation.

(b) Article 116 - Riot or breach of peace.

(c) Article 117 - Provoking speeches or gestures.

(d) Article 134 - General article, specifically, conduct which is prejudicial to good order and discipline or service discrediting.

(2) Involuntary separation for unsatisfactory performance or misconduct, or for conduct deemed prejudicial to good order and discipline or morale.

(3) Reclassification actions or bar to reenlistment actions, as appropriate.

(4) Other administrative or disciplinary action deemed appropriate by the commander, based on the specific facts and circumstances of the particular case.

e. Command responsibility. Any Soldier involvement with or in an extremist organization or activity (such as membership, receipt of literature, or presence at an event) could threaten the good order and discipline of a unit. In any case of apparent Soldier involvement with or in extremist organizations or activities, whether or not violative of the prohibitions in subparagraph b , commanders must take positive actions to educate Soldiers, putting them on notice of the potential adverse effects that participation in violation of Army policy may have upon good order and discipline in the unit and upon their military service. These positive actions include -

(1) Educating Soldiers regarding the Army's equal opportunity policy. Commanders will advise Soldiers that extremist organizations' goals are inconsistent with Army goals, beliefs, and values concerning equal opportunity.

(2) Advising Soldiers that any participation in extremist organizations or activities -

(a) Will be taken into consideration when evaluating their overall duty performance, to include appropriate remarks on evaluation reports.

(b) Will be taken into consideration when selections for positions of leadership and responsibility are made.

(c) Will result in removal of security clearances, where appropriate.

(d) Will result in reclassification actions or bar to reenlistment actions as appropriate.

(3) The commander of a military installation or other military controlled facility under the jurisdiction of the United States will prohibit any demonstration or activity on the installation or facility that could result in interference with or prevention of orderly accomplishment of the mission of the installation or facility, or present a clear danger to loyalty, discipline, or morale of the troops. Further, such commanders will deny requests for the use of military controlled facilities by individuals or groups that engage in discriminatory practices or for activities involving such practices.

f. Legal advice and counsel. Commanders should seek the advice and counsel of their legal advisor when taking actions pursuant to this policy.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2016 10:41 AM

2016-02-08T10:41:00-05:00

How is a motorcycle group any different than any other hobbyist group? Some groups like the Hells Angels are criminal organizations, but that doesn't mean that all motorcycle groups are.

I was a member of my local Harley Owners Group chapter until I sold my V-Rod, and it was just a good group of people, many of them veterans (I was the only current military member), who owned and enjoyed riding motorcycles. It was no different than my camera club, which also included many veterans, and was made up of people who enjoyed taking pictures.

If a group is a criminal organization, whether they are a motorcycle, camera, model airplane or whatever group, that is when military members should not participate, and a commander always has the right to "black list" such organizations.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 12:44 AM

2019-06-24T00:44:30-04:00

Combat Veterans Association is not a club. We have many active duty members.

Response by SGT Don Schaffer made May 17 at 2021 10:38 PM

2021-05-17T22:38:18-04:00

Bikers are some of the most accommodating people anywhere. I'm sure that a group of us old timers would welcome a young buck.