What are your thoughts on inviting your CSM to a sporting event?

SGT Ronnie Warford — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:08:14 -0400

So I was talking with my CSM a few weeks back about a sports team and how my father gets tickets every know and then. Would it be inappropriate to invite him to on of these games if I had an extra ticket?

Response by SGT Ronnie Warford made Aug 24 at 2015 8:08 PM

SGT Ronnie Warford — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:08:24 -0400

TIA !!!

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2015 10:23 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:23:26 -0400

A single game? I can't see why not!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 12:59 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 00:59:51 -0400

I will tell you how I see this from my perspective. If one of my NCOs asked if I would like to attend a sporting event I would respectfully decline. Too many perceptions would be made from other NCOs, Soldiers and officers in the unit. I would most definitely appreciate the offer and thank the NCO.

I don't think it would be inappropriate/wrong for you to ask but, I will be surprised if he accepts. Let us know how it turns out.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 10:40 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:40:44 -0400

Unfortunately yes. It would look like trying to garner favor.

However if you invited EVERYONE you could get around it. The only other thing you could do is hold a raffle or something and hope he wins haha.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Aug 25 at 2015 10:41 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:41:08 -0400

I would say yes very much so. Due to the fact that perception is all that matters. And if someone sees you do this then you get a good tasking even if you deserve it. They can cry fowl and it could turn into a mess. My wife watch day senior chief kids while he was on travel. He live far enough away it was easier to stay there. It was innocent and next thing I know it turned into some crap. I'm glad I had a Good LT who helped squashed it and showed no favoritism was ever shown in any manner.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Aug 25 at 2015 10:51 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:51:52 -0400

I would not do that.

Response by MSG John Delmonico made Aug 25 at 2015 11:33 AM

MSG John Delmonico — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:33:35 -0400

Yes, you are wrong Sgt. The key here is that you said it was your CSM, which to me says he is in your CoC. This is a clear cut case of insubordination if the CSM accepts your invitation.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 25 at 2015 1:49 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:49:22 -0400

SGT Ronnie Warford I don't think it out of line, but don't expect him accept and don't be disppointed if he doesn't! Its all about his position within the command.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 26 at 2015 5:40 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 05:40:04 -0400

SGT Ronnie Warford That would probably be seen as a conflict in interest by your CSM and he would decline your offer. At least I would.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 26 at 2015 9:25 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:25:04 -0400

Is it inappropriate to extend him an invite? I would say no but I would expect the CSM to decline the invite. While you have all the best intentions in mind, the CSM must act in the best interest of his/her position and how others view what he/she is doing. While I'm sure the CSM would enjoy talking one on one with any of his/her NCOs, to take such a gift and attend an event outside of a professional setting could rub some people the wrong way.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 9:32 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:32:53 -0400

SGT Ronnie Warford To avoid fraternization issues a good rule of thumb would be: If you cannot invite everyone in your unit then you should only invite those within your peer group. Anyone above or below your paygrade will come off questionable. For example, if you wanted to throw a BBQ at your house and invite some members from work. In order to avoid favoritism it is best to send a "blank" invite and those that come will come, but you did not discriminate in your invitation.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 26 at 2015 12:36 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:36:13 -0400

In a word - yes...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:36:41 -0400

I'd think it be a clear violation of the Army's Fraternization policy.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 1 at 2015 12:38 PM

1SG Michael Blount — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:38:39 -0400

Nothing good can come of that situation. If s/he accepts, there's the perception of future favoritism. If s/he declines, feelings get hurt. When in doubt...don't

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:40 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 12:40:04 -0400

I am of the opinion that, while it may not be inappropriate to offer the ticket, it may create the appearance of impropriety should the CSM accept (which I doubt he would). Therefore, you can offer the ticket, but don't be upset should the CSM turn down the offer with thanks.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 1:45 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 13:45:30 -0400

Yes, inappropriate

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 6:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 18:01:39 -0400

It wouldn't be innapropriate to ask necessarily, but it would innapropriate for him to go.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 12:30 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:30:01 -0400

I think it would depend on your relationship with your Sergeant Major, odds are if you haven't known him for years and been in some gun fights with him he'll say thanks but decline. As far as asking, I don't see any harm in it.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 2:41 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 14:41:10 -0400

If you have to ask if it's appropriate, then it probably isnt. I understand there could be a friendly relationship between the CSM and several of his subordinates. However, if you were to get ANY form of preferential treatment. It would undermine the chain of command and possibly the mission. So no, it is not a good idea.
If, on the other hand, the whole unit went in and bought the CSM a ticket or two, the favoritism goes out of it.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 7:15 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 19:15:21 -0400

I had a similar type of situation. I just handed it to him, and said that I was going to be there for the event and if he would like, he could use this extra one. But there were several factors I also considered. 1. He was single, 2. I let others know about what I did (chain of command) 3. Gave him the option of using it or not. I made sure there was no "buddying up" occurring. He did go, We did not buy each other anything (beer, food, etc) I still gave him the respect of his position and we called it a night. Monday I told my peers what went on there at the event, and I don't believe anyone saw it as fraternizing, but my troops knew me and the type of character I have.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 10:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 22:18:58 -0400

SGT Warford, while my initial thought was "if he is in your chain of command, that constitutes fraternization," but upon further inspection, this AR seems to OK it:

AR 600-20 paragraph 4-14c(3)(d)
These prohibitions [of fraternization] are not intended to preclude unit based normal team building or activity based on interaction which occurs in the context of community based, religious, or fraternal associations such as scouting, youth or adult sports leagues or teams; membership in organizations such as the Masons or Elks; religious activities including chapel, church, synagogue, mosque, or religious education; Family gatherings; unit-based social functions; or athletic events."

Anyone have anything to add on this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 12:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:08:07 -0400

No, no, no.... that would be fraternizing. If you can't take your entire squad/shop/platoon/company to the event, then inviting your CSM would be totally inappropriate. Invite one of your battle buddies instead.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 5:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 17:16:22 -0400

Meeting someone of a higher rank than me through channels outside of the Army, having nothing to do with work, and genuinely getting along as friends is one thing.

Hanging out with my own CSM, no matter the earnesty behind your intentions, no, don't go there.

He has 1SGs and other SGMs, you have SGTs and SSGs. Be smart.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 5:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 17:17:21 -0400

Response by SFC Nelson Feliciano made Sep 3 at 2015 8:35 PM

SFC Nelson Feliciano — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 20:35:43 -0400

Stay in your lane, hang with your level of rank.