What are your thoughts on our Soldiers paying to having their Class A uniforms set-up for DA photos and inspections?

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:53:45 -0400

I have noticed in recent years, at the cleaners I use personally and for our program dry cleaning, that many Soldiers bring in their Class-As and all their bling, and pay to have a them (likely by a military spouse or high school kid) set up their uniforms for DA photos, boards, and inspections... Yesterday I saw a Captain paying to have his Class-As set-up, and thought to myself WTF? A Captain, seriously?

I have worn the uniform since 1980, and still set in up myself? I always have. I always spit-shinned my own boots (daily) and even did at Jump School. I ironed my own uniforms for duty (yes I know we were not supposed to), and if I had questions, I asked a 1SG/CSM.

Anytime I needed a DA photo, I asked my 1SG or CSM to check my uniform and my photo. And, luckily, I got promoted/selected at every board...

I still can't believe Soldiers pay to have someone else do this, as I see this as a personal responsibility... But, capitalism makes it work... I guess after black boots and endless sewing on the Greens and BDUs... this is new market.

I guess I am just old school...

PS. I have a lot of crap on my uniform...

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 8:56 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:56:54 -0400

Sounds like a market solution to the excessive amount of flair the Army wears.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 8:58 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:58:25 -0400

Sir, you have summarized correctly in saying WTF!? Not only is it just alien to me that a Soldier would do this, but it is also telling about their attention to detail and indicates a level, or lack of, care and professionalism.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 9:03 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:03:32 -0400

Hummmm. Maybe I should start soliciting customers.

J/K I wouldn't know where to begin.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 12 at 2017 9:14 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:14:46 -0400

If someone in the PX system could figure out that those little devices that go on ribbons never line up correctly out of the box, and it would be easier to sell ribbons with the damn device already on them, they would have a gold mine in the making. Seriously, people pay to have this done, why wasn't that available when I was a private? I would honestly like to see simple Dress uniform, but I am not in the majority on this. The Army tends to over do the Class A uniform with some very tacky trinkets IMHO.

Response by SSG Jim Parshall made Apr 12 at 2017 9:32 PM

SSG Jim Parshall — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:32:34 -0400

Sir, thank you for your service, both enlisted and commissioned. I fully agree that the SM should be attending to their own uniform prep work. Heck, I could envision a senior NCO deciding to ask positioning rules on a board. If you didn't do the leg work, you'll probably be a No Go at the board.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 12 at 2017 9:32 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:32:49 -0400

I really saw this while stationed at Carson before I retired. Lots of junior soldiers dropping off their uniforms, bling in a bag. Clean and set up. My reaction is the same as yours COL Charles Williams , WTF? If you can't be bothered to put the stuff on your self, quit, find something else to do.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Apr 12 at 2017 9:34 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:34:47 -0400

Frankly, COL Charles Williams, I wouldn't have trusted anyone else to prepare my uniforms. I was an OCS Tactical Officer and a detailed Inspector General. I could spot uniform discrepancies at great distances. Preparing a uniform is not that difficult. It simply requires some time and knowledge (of AR 670-1). LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 12 at 2017 10:01 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:01:07 -0400

Nor would I LTC Stephen C.. The owner also said some have complained as they got gigged and want a refund. He has had CSMs come complain, when they are using 670-1 and ALARACTS... and are more up to date than most are.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 10:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:17:46 -0400

I've rarely encountered anyone who puts their uniform together on their own; everyone (on the enlisted side of the house, anyway) seems shocked when I tell them I do it for myself, by myself. Sure, this may deprive peers the opportunity to hone their attention to detail. The question really boils down to whether we should expect Soldiers to pay and trust a 'professional' or beg and trust a peer.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Apr 12 at 2017 10:22 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:22:52 -0400

I am pretty certain that I had my class A uniforms cleaned professionally after wearing them after a few times [every couple years] since we generally wore the fatigue or camo uniform as a duty uniform.
I always shined my shoes and combat black boots until Corfram took over for low quarters.
I always set up my own ribbons, jump wings, Pentagon Staff Badge, etc. using the current Officers guide COL Charles Williams
I do think it is unprofessional to have a uniform set up by somebody else for an official photograph.
Here is my last official photo from 2004.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 10:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:41:33 -0400

I think paying someone to set your uniform up is a waste of money. Yea, it can be a massive pain to set your uniform up, but Soldiers that do this.....this tells me they have no pride in their uniform.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Apr 12 at 2017 10:45 PM

SGT Matthew S. — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:45:15 -0400

I concur with the "WTF?". I don't recall that 'service' ever being available anywhere I was at - even in the barracks! Wouldn't have even crossed my mind, either. It is *your* uniform, and a reflection of yourself.

Granted, I had no helping someone (with a guidebook in hand) who was having trouble getting their uniform squared away or trying to remember how everything was supposed to go. I also asked for help or to have someone else look mine over several times, but the bottom line was that the uniform's owner did the work - and took pride in it, too.

Response by SGT Robert George made Apr 12 at 2017 10:47 PM

SGT Robert George — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:47:14 -0400

We had it made in Korea , we had house boys come make our bunks , spit shine our cavalry boots , starch and put military creases in our fatigues , It doesn't get any better than that !!!

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Apr 12 at 2017 10:54 PM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:54:21 -0400

With the exception of when I was stationed in Turkey and had the barracks Abi's starch and iron my uniforms I always did it myself. I never used the Abi's to shine my boots, I took pride (and still do) in my spit shining abilities. Having to go through a uniform inspection daily at the start of guard mount one always had to be tip top.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 11:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:17:23 -0400

One thing is to order a preset-up rack, on rack builder, but to take your entire uniform in to have it set up, that is absolutely ridiculous. Then again, generals aide-de-camp, or enlisted aides, set up their's, but that's beside the point.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 11:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:20:42 -0400

When I was at SLC in Leonard Wood a few weeks ago, I was curious about the service while getting my uniform serviced. This particular establishment charged $20 to use a plastic guide to emplace your fruit salad and bling.

NO way in hell was I going to pay $20 to have someone do something in the same manner I would do myself with my own placement guide and ruler. But yet, there was a 7-10 day wait on this service.
It's just not that hard. I can eyeball the placements pretty closely and only need to make minor adjustments.
Now I have considered having one of those ribbon rack sheets made. I think they look pretty nice compared to the sliders on a ribbon rack. Especially the placement of devices. Every time I have to add a cluster or numeral I end up replacing the entire ribbon anyway because the old one looks like crap after you make the change.

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made Apr 12 at 2017 11:23 PM

SSgt Robert Marx — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:23:20 -0400

I have retired after a total of twenty years and I always set up my own uniforms. I recall going through 2 full junk on the bunk inspections for the time I served in the Marines plus we had to do the same for another 2 or 3 times in school settings. So many items had to be right at 1/8" overhang and aligned to the right. The chevrons on the arms of each jacket had to be 3" down from the seem with the thing centered. I never sowed anything on myself with the exception of unit patches in the Army National Guard. I have lived in small Montana towns with no tailors or at least I did not know anyone who would take projects like that. I hated to place dry cleaning in for uniforms because I had to leave them in the tailor's shop of the sole active duty base in the state. I sure do miss the military but I am certain that there would be no way any service would take me back.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2017 11:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:53:55 -0400

I think its a waste of money sir. For me there is a certain sense of pride involved with the maintenance and proper wear of one's uniform, though I could be mistaken on that.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 12 at 2017 11:57 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 23:57:43 -0400

COL Charles Williams Old School? I continue to ponder whether the attention to such detail of my 'Old Army' had a positive effect? While a heckuva enjoyable challenge; was such attention to detail a 'real' benefit to the Army? I continue to SMH!

At Ft Knox in 1953/54, I hand carried my spit shined, rough out bottom, 2 buckle boots to guard mount. I missed Colonel's orderly; once!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 12:07 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 00:07:03 -0400

Agreed sir. I love setting up this uniform as I believe it shows a sense of pride and discipline to take the time and ensure everything is dress-right-dress. I had some f my Soldiers tell me they've paid before in the past and some places charge about $50 just to put together a Soldiers uniform fresh out of basic. Still to this day, even though sometimes it can be a headache, I wouldn't pay a dime to have someone put together my uniform.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 12:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 00:46:31 -0400

I totally agree, I had this exact conversation a week ago. Soldiers should have enough pride to put their uniforms together. The leadership allowing Soldiers to do this prior to a DA Photo is crazy as well, this is a missed opportunity for leaders to mentor their subordinates.

Response by CPT Chris Loomis made Apr 13 at 2017 12:58 AM

CPT Chris Loomis — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 00:58:31 -0400

COL Charles Williams Sir, in my humble opinion, that is blasphemous.

A few points here to make:

1. I don't have a whole lot of "bling" on my uniform, but it doesn't matter whether or not I do. It's MY uniform. It's the same uniform that men and women have worn before me.... Some of those men and women have died wearing that uniform. It's a matter of my pride, respect and honor!

My wife has offered to assist me with my uniforms and I have respectfully declined. Its a Soldier's uniform and I am a Soldier....

I care for and maintain my uniforms. I will allow the dry cleaners to clean my uniform. But, they will NEVER set up my uniform.

My uniforms are my responsibility.

When death comes to me it will come when, where, and however it comes. I will go out standing up. And, I plan to be buried in my uniform. HOOOAH!!! And my uniform will be ready for me to wear it for the last time....

2. If I took the easier route, and in my mind, cheated dealing with my responsibilities, what message would that send to our Soldiers, Sir?

The message is that it's okay to shirk our responsibilities, take shortcuts, and not to pay attention to detail.

Just my humble $0.02 worth, Sir.

I'm open to any and all comments or hate mail. There's always something for me to learn....

V/R,
1LT Chris Loomis

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 1:29 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 01:29:38 -0400

I can't really wrap my mind around this one. And I may have to rethink my position that troops need a pay raise if they have $20 to burn on this. Obviously too much disposable income.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 13 at 2017 2:19 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 02:19:30 -0400

It's hard to let go of a thing. For the Army, it's nearly impossible. Navy doesn't do photos for boards anymore. There used to be base stickers for autos. Took years to decide the threat is with people, not a hunk of iron. So the question is, given the level of effort and expense, is the actual, not perceived, result worth it? Do we overvalue the importance of it? I can't really judge. About the only thing we did back in the day was get a B/W photo in khakis in which the photomate would slap some banana clips on your shirt in the back to even it out. Had to get a color job when I assumed command. Always hated the photo board thing, but I just had 5 photos made up. Two went on photo boards in Honolulu and San Diego and the other 3 are in my sea locker in the garage, I think.

Now for inspections, different story. I was always a do-it-yourselfer. Even then, it was hard to escape the Mama-san who'd make some minute correction when I was in SE Asia. Now the uniform in context with your assigned leadership role with your crew present is a different story. Always knew how to get it right with my uniform. But then again, us Navy types eschew the Conehead Massive Consumption of Hardware Quantities the Army has accumulated over the years. Different culture. Looks sharp though.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 3:39 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 03:39:12 -0400

If you think that's outlandish sir, I'll share a short story with you: The Battalion I was in at the time was getting ready for a Soldier of the year board. A SPC had a fair of amount of "pieces of flair" to wear and he asked his 1SG what right looked like on one of the items. The 1SG looked at him and said: "Man, I don't know. I'm a field 1SG. Go ask SSG XXX."

I just about fell out of my chair. We've come a long way from the spit and polish of the BDU era.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Apr 13 at 2017 3:46 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 03:46:30 -0400

COL Charles Williams I always set up my own uniforms, but it was a much easier job than yours.

Response by PFC Jonathan Albano made Apr 13 at 2017 4:21 AM

PFC Jonathan Albano — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 04:21:22 -0400

I never understood paying somebody to do it either. Of course, I'm paranoid enough that I sewed my own rank on after I got promoted just because I didn't want to risk getting reamed for another person's screw up.That said, I did pay for dry cleaning and remember one time they did my uniform setup free of charge when a snowstorm delayed my uniform until the night before my unit's ball. Even then, I made sure I checked everything myself before I dawned the uniform. At lone least, you need to know what right looks like.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 4:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 04:41:23 -0400

You as a soldier should know and have the pride to put together your ASUs... it shows the discipline and accomplishments through out your military career. Being a soldier you must know all aspects of being one and even if it comes to putting together your own uniform.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Apr 13 at 2017 5:51 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 05:51:41 -0400

Personally I did my own set up of my Class-A's. My wife had a folder given to her by the family support group, she studied it and told me if I had anything out of place.(She was worse than a DI). Other then that my wife took care of patch installing.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Apr 13 at 2017 6:08 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:08:29 -0400

They probably don't have time to do it themselves with all the SHARP training, correspondence courses, and college classes they have to complete.....

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 13 at 2017 7:12 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 07:12:57 -0400

First off, I don't think it's "right" however, looking at it from a strictly pragmatic point:

1) Have we made the uniforms so complex or tedious that "it's not worth our time?"
2) Have we put a level of stress/importance on the DA Photo beyond what it is supposed to do?

Have these factors made it where a "reasonable" person would be willing to trade $$ for not having to deal with the stress and time issues?

Look at how many questions pop up regarding DA Photos and what is authorized/unauthorized.

As a parallel, I'd ask who here changes their own oil still. It's YOUR car. YOU'RE responsible for it. But changing your own oil is tedious, time consuming, and frankly not worth the time that could be spent doing other things.

Through that lens, paying someone else to do it, then personally checking their work is not a lot different than doing it yourself and having a buddy double check you.

Again, not a service I would use... but setting up Marine Dress Blues is A LOT easier than ASUs strictly from a quantitative standpoint, and our Promotion Photo didn't have the same level of "demand" that the Army does.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Apr 13 at 2017 7:37 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 07:37:53 -0400

Well, todays generation seems fine with farming out everything they can, and should, do themselves, so why not uniform set up? Actually I applaud the entrepreneurial spirit of the people who came up with the concept. Not for me though, as others have said, wouldn't trust anyone but me.

Response by CW4 Robert C. made Apr 13 at 2017 8:32 AM

CW4 Robert C. — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:32:39 -0400

I am with you sir. I am old school. I mean I am retired now, but I always set up my own uniform and shined my own boots and ironed my uniforms also. My wife tried doing it one time and I told her then that this is my job and that she should not have to iron my clothes or shine my boots, leave that to me. I didn't even let her wash my clothes I did it. It was my job and my responsibility not hers. All said though you are right capitalism is driving the train and lack of responsibility. Maybe in the schools they should put off such places and make the students do it themselves. I don't mean just basic, I mean all schools. Just my opinion though because like you I had to shine boots at one time, most of these kids in the Armed Forces today don't even know what Black Boot Looks like. They think that it should be in a museum. But again that is just my opinion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 8:36 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:36:54 -0400

The uniform is a symbol of pride and ownership of ones career and accomplishments. It's a snapshot for younger generations to emulate one day. I would have to disagree with the term "Old School", since I have seen many "old school" Senior NCOS and Officers that pay to have their uniform candy placed on their ASUs or Dress Mess. Sir, I think the best term you may be looking for, is what I call "Lazy". Soldiers, both enlisted and commissioned that would rather not take he 5 min to understand their ribbon and badge placement. This is also a reason as for why there's so many Soldiers that don't know how to fix their own uniforms, leadership failing at their job and promoting laziness rather than pride.

Response by SSgt Ryan Sylvester made Apr 13 at 2017 8:37 AM

SSgt Ryan Sylvester — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:37:34 -0400

How about those flat, premade award boards? I hate those damned things. They're awards. Something you're supposed to take pride in. Learn how to properly rack them yourself.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Apr 13 at 2017 8:38 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:38:18 -0400

I've used this example a couple of times here but I find it fitting here as well. I attended the E5 board while assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. Our CSM had a thing for highly shined boots both for the daily uniform and for Class As. He would often say that he knew all he needed to know but the state of one's boots. He would spit shine his boots and expected the same of us. The guy could spot unshined boots for miles aways. It was an unstated fact that he would not pass anyone that cheated when shining their boots. So the night before the board, my Section Sergeant and I spent some time going over my uniform and after he left I started on my boots. I put in a movie, got my polish and rag and just started to work them. After several hours, I had them looking like glass. I even had a second pair to wear after the board. As we gathered in the battalion area and lined up, I noticed the person in front of me had some great looking boots so I asked how long they spent working on them. "Just minutes," they said. I was shocked. How the heck is that possible I asked. They went on to explain that they found what I consider to be leather paint and just put on their boots. As we walked, I noticed that their boots weren't cracking in the area that naturally occurs when you walk. We all knew the CSM was going to flip out because these service member failed to put the time in to do it correctly and when that service member walked in, all we heard was the CSM yelling at them and their section sergeant. "Get the hell out of my AO and don't come back until you learn how to shine some *Bleep* *Bleeping* pair of *bleeping* boots", I should have both of you reduced to PVT!" was the last thing we heard and the service member and section sergeant made their quick retreat from the battalion area. As I gathered myself, dried by hands and made my way to the door I took one more look at my boots and said a quick prayer. "Dear God, please don't let these boots fail me now." As I walked in, the CSM was standing in front of the table. I reported and held my salute as the CSM walked up to, rubbed his finger across my boots and then returned the saluted and said "Now these boots here First Sergeants are properly prepared boots. We can continue with the board."

The lesson I learned and carried forward from this was there are always several ways to do things. One way is a quick way. Pain your points, pay someone to set up your uniform. But be ready for whatever results you may have to deal with. Or take a second, put on a movie and spend the time required to ensure you look your best.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 8:39 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:39:58 -0400

It has truly become a lost art to set up a class A, and I think it has a lot to do with we seldom wear them anymore, and haven't for quite some time. Before 9/11, if you were in certain billets you more A's or B's daily. It was your office attire. It was nothing to iron your uniform, polish your shoes, and keep your awards and badges squared away.
Now we wear the uniform so infrequently that it is easy to neglect updates for new awards, service stripes, etc. Every time I conduct a uniform inspection, I bet the formation beverages on me that they can't put forward five Soldiers that I can't find at least five gigs on. I have yet to pay up.
For me, it is a point of pride to keep it squared away and lead by example. And yes, do it myself when setting it up. It isn't that hard. You just need a uniform poster, the internet to look up oddball items, and a clear plastic ruler (I learned with quarters back in the day).
This picture is a little old, but it is the one I had handy.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Apr 13 at 2017 8:43 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:43:58 -0400

who know are the bad guys the SENIORS NCO and OFFICERS who inspect the soldiers that are up all night preparing for that big inspection knowing the guy or gal inspecting them just spend a shit load of cash on perpetration that they never even did. Some soldiers even look in the regulation because its the proper thing to do when displaying that much stuff on a uniform, The military is such a freaking joke these days, FOLLOW MY LEAD OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY! LEADERS.

Don't have the cleaners doing your shit. I understand if your General Officer or SMA but they have EA or Staff to do all that because they are too busy.

my blog for the day

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 8:49 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:49:43 -0400

If you have someone else do it how are you going to be that 1SG or CSM to look at others and know that hey are right.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 13 at 2017 8:52 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:52:20 -0400

What's a Class A set up Col? Sorry not too familiar with Army terms and have never heard it being used in the USAF.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Apr 13 at 2017 8:54 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:54:54 -0400

COL Charles Williams You look great in the new uniform Charles - I retired before I had to swithc over to yet another uniform. I'm happy with my last picture! Great question and post. Here is my answer. No, I don't think they should - the military service branches should institute a special clthing allowance for Official DA Photos (whne necessary for promotion, etc.) and the reuqest should be submitted and approved. Just my two cents!

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Apr 13 at 2017 9:08 AM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:08:15 -0400

When you get thrown out of the Navy you have to turn in all of your uniform items. Every item you were ever issued. So if you were issued four shirts, six boots, etc, thats what you had to turn in. Now, if you didn't have that, you had to buy it. So if you only had two shirts, you'd have to buy two. Then the funny thing is they take it all away from you. And they put it in a "store" called the "Lucky Bag." You could go there two days a week and get free clothes. So what I would do is go and look for all the new clothes and I'd grab multiple sets. Normally I would have about six complete uniform sets.

One, I would keep pimped up with all the stuff on it, for flash inspections, ceremonies, etc. The others I would take to sea only and then when I came home from sea throw them away as you never really get that submarine smell out of them. So for me it was easy to have a full dress blues and dress whites with all the stuff on it. Your Bluejacket manual which you were issued in boot camp had a list of every Naval award, ribbon, patch, etc and where it went on your uniform. And a handy ruler printed on the inside cover. So you could set your stuff up yourself quite easily.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Apr 13 at 2017 9:39 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:39:53 -0400

It's not something I would do for two main reasons: 1. It's a task even I can handle myself & 2. I'm too damn cheep to pay someone. That said, from a pragmatic point of view I understand why someone might want to farm out the job to someone with more time or skill.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 13 at 2017 9:40 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:52 -0400

Wow, that's a ton of ribbons and badges in these images. If I had that many, I might pay too! ;-)

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Apr 13 at 2017 9:55 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:55:49 -0400

I'm not a big fan of it, may save time but if they don't do it correctly the troop is still on the hook for it.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 13 at 2017 11:01 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:01:23 -0400

I use to assist most officers with their uniform including the aide de camp for the CG...which that was a new thing to learn with the gold rope. Yes your uniform is your responsibility but I always opened the regulation to do mine even if I knew what it should be and as a NCO never had an issue helping anyone with theirs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 11:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:05:53 -0400

The closest I've come to that is ordering my ribbons from one of those rack builder sites. The only thing I've ever paid anyone for is CQ. lol

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Apr 13 at 2017 11:28 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:28:20 -0400

Personally, I've always done my uniform myself because I knew if my uniform was squared away, then I was squared away.

I will not begrudge someone who either can't make the time to correct their own uniform or doesn't care enough to learn. It's just like the barracks room barbers. If there's a market for it, someone will pay for it.

All I know is that when I did my uniform, I knew my measurements were right. I knew the order of my ribbons/medals/badges. Because I painstakingly took the time to learn the order of priority and the spacing.

How can I correct my Marines uniforms if I can't even correct my own uniform?

This is the mentality I always took to work.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 12:07 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:07:02 -0400

I never witnessed it. When we had our promotion board pictures taken it was in the service "charlies", short sleeves with ribbons and badges. The member was responsible for arriving at Base Photo in the right uniform, with a good haircut, freshly shaven and relatively sober. The Photo bubbas were very methodical with ensuring they presented the best image they could on your behalf. They were very thorough and pulled your blouse and adjusted you before taking the shot. They couldn't fix ugly or your service record. The rest was up to the promotion or selection board.

Response by SSgt Bob Williams made Apr 13 at 2017 12:10 PM

SSgt Bob Williams — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:10:29 -0400

Funny, even after all of these years I have been a civilian, I will still sit on the floor and shine my own shoes after every business trip, and I am generally the sharpest dressed person in the room for any business meeting, always making sure my gig line is straight. :) Some things cannot be un-learned.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 1:17 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:17:38 -0400

The only thing I paid for was having my medal rack set up. I set up my uniform myself, and had several squared away NCO's check it over.

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Apr 13 at 2017 1:28 PM

SP5 Robert Ruck — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:28:30 -0400

I've nothing against it. It saves time and gives someone a job.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 1:51 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:51:41 -0400

Response by CPT Wes Marsh made Apr 13 at 2017 3:20 PM

CPT Wes Marsh — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:20:31 -0400

We are ultimately responsible for our own stuff. That being said, aren't there some weeks when you would gladly bypass the sense of accomplishment and pay some kid to mow the lawn?

Response by SGT(P) Graciano "George" Etrata made Apr 13 at 2017 3:27 PM

SGT(P) Graciano "George" Etrata — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:27:53 -0400

In Korea it was just a given (from the Divarty Co on down). Set your boots outside your door and poof next day they are returned. Same went for setting up your dress uniform. Although, I did set up my own uniform when i went green to Gold, no such service was provided at the time

I do not consider it disrespectful. I spent 90% of my time downrange or TDY and never did get accustomed to wearing my Class A's. Hire a professional and then double check their work. I could shine some boots but there was always someone better at it.

Ooh shaw

Response by MSG David Rogers III made Apr 13 at 2017 4:03 PM

MSG David Rogers III — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:03:23 -0400

This is a reprint of a comment I made 6 months ago, but applies here:
We had a surplus store outside of Fort Drum that set up ASUs, performed by a retired CSM. Hand him a uniform and an ERB, come back in a few days... done. The issue I have with it, is that we lose the experience if someone does the work for us. I have met junior and senior NCO who have immaculate ASUs, but cannot recognize ribbons out of order on other soldiers uniforms, because they have no practice or experience. In fact, a few years ago I knew of an NCO promoted to SFC with the DA photo having the Korean Service Medal (issued before he was born) instead of the Korean "Defense" Service Medal (which he did earn). They completely missed the light blue colors of the UN. I am assuming those board members had someone else set up their uniform as well.

I had 28 years of wearing the uniform for the Army, and the last four years wearing it occasionally as a veteran. And even to the last ASU set-up, I had a copy of the appropriate regulations laid out (or on the computer screen), verifying my placements.

Yes, it takes time and patience. Appurtenances (oak leaves and stars) can be difficult. But taking that time shows the pride you have for that uniform not only to others, but yourself!

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 13 at 2017 4:09 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:09:14 -0400

Pull out the ruler, regs and take the time to do it right then you don't have to pay. I never did and had no problems. If you as a leader cannot properly set up your uniform then how can you inspect your soldiers? You got to know how to do it before you can judge anyone else.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Apr 13 at 2017 4:14 PM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:14:32 -0400

The e way I feel about the demise of polishing the black boots....it lacks discipline!!!!!!

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Apr 13 at 2017 6:23 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:23:38 -0400

Why the hell aren't they doing that themselves? I always thought it was my responsibility to set my Class A's up for any occasion I needed to wear them. I went to the Uniform supply shop and picked up my ribbons, got larger ribbon racks, etc. When I was a younger, dumber soldier I actually had the cleaners sew my rank on and they "F"d it up. I had to cut all my insignia off and resew it before the next formation the next morning. That was a long night and I never forgot it. That SGM made a believer out of me!

Response by SFC Dave Beran made Apr 13 at 2017 8:12 PM

SFC Dave Beran — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:12:08 -0400

The only thing I and a lot of other older vets did was have a Senior NCO look over our picture. When I was a SSG going for SFC had to retake my pic twice. Not because of my set up but first not situated properly. Second was a new GCM.

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made Apr 13 at 2017 8:28 PM

MSgt Gerald Orvis — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:28:14 -0400

I believe troops and officers should assemble their own uniforms - I always did it myself. But when I was a junior troop in the pre-corfram days (c. 1969), we always had a kid in the squadbay who was great at spitshining ($$) shoes and barracks caps for those who hadn't the skill to do it themselves, but to the best of my knowledge, that was as far as it went. Scuttlebutt had it that some SNCO's had children or wives at home that were taught to press-and-shine uniform items (character building exercise) and these SNCOs always looked immaculate, as they should have. When I was in Marine Security Guard School and again in Drill Instructor School, we re-learned all the old press-and-shine tricks to be squared away, accumulating a little bag of rulers, vices, sandpaper, rouge polish and so forth), since we had to be able to teach others, and on Embassy duty, there was simply no-one else to do it! When I was on Embassy duty, one had to know the uniform regs so one could coach the local tailors and cleaners about proper care (getting that shirt crease to split the pocket exactly, and no double or "summer" creases), maintenance and placement of rank insignia (don't put it on the sleeve upside down, because I have to send all the way to Washington DC to get new ones if you ruin it!). It was a matter of pride to appear in an immaculate uniform before all the Foreign Service types and foreign military visitors to the Embassy. For me, it was a matter of pride to appear in an immaculate uniform no matter who I was in front of. So naturally, I did it myself - I didn't trust anybody else to do it as well as I could.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 10:52 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:52:38 -0400

This is nothing new. Almost fifty years ago, officers and enlisted men on my ship were having a complete set of gabardine Dress Blues (actually black) made in Japan or Hong Kong and a set of ribbons affixed, together with all the accoutrements which we all then set aside for use only in Captain's or Admiral's inspections.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Apr 14 at 2017 5:34 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 05:34:58 -0400

Sir, I think I see what you mean, and I'm not justifying it, but in an Officer and a Gentleman, Mayo was the guy you ran to so you could get the "hook up" at the right time. Well Mayo might've been an Officer in that movie, but Mayo would be that Soldier who can spit shine the hell out of Cochran 1's and do it repeatedly in short order. Mayo would be another Soldier who can iron his ass off. When I was a MP, At McNair, we had a steam press in the basement of Building 48. TOG had multiple presses in the bottom of their barracks. This makes it a big deal when you have 30 MP's who rotate dress uniforms, BDU's, 120 grunts from A Co TOG who also have a few steam presses of their own, but rotate their uniforms also. I forgot the MDW CG uses the steamers in either of the barracks when he wants...just because he can. To bake your blues, just the pants alone by a rookie would take almost an hour. When you get "good" at it, it'll take 20 minutes or less. At least 10 or you'll be back down there with your NCO and a 4856. Blues Top? 30 min minimum an easy hour plus to a rookie. BDU's? no spray starch, straight starch from the blue bottle, and one hour min per uniform easy if it's wet, 45min if the starch is dry. If you look at the times I'm using, you'd see to save time, you'd make a sign in roster, and be there on time or loose your spot. That was done. In the summer, you could go from BDU's to Blues mid-day. Better be ready. To be ready, you have johnny on the spot who can make that press sing praises to him, while you line his pocket with green confetti. Sometimes it you'll "feel" a wrong that isn't. Can I set up my own uniform? Hell yeah. I think I'm good enough to this day to press my uniform to TOG standards given the time to learn the new presses used. If I knew a quicker faster way to make a buck off my knowledge, and folks would pay, I'd be right there taking their money. A DA photo IS a big deal, and while I set my A's up, I did have two of my peers look at it when we got to the place that took our pics, and none of us would move unless the other said go. It's a good thing to have that level of trust in your Corps where they are trained enough to spot SMALL issues that many would miss and be able to fix them on the spot. I've even stripped ribbons off my uniform, borrowed bolo badges, took another buddies tie all because one piece on my uniform was better than theirs, or theirs had one better than mine. It worked out just fine. I don't see a problem with this, but if a Soldier cannot reasonably put his or her uniform together within a decent eyeballls check of corrections, something is wrong, and it's not the Soldier that is wearing the uniform's. In the 90's when we were using the presses, you needed your uniform done on the spot, I'd do it, but you might end up working a shift for me, or your pockets would be a bit lighter when we hit the clubs. Cochran Ones? Toe to top eyelet? Being I hate them, and most others did too......you will be paying out of your behind to get those done. But they WILL be done. No leather luster allowed or used. Need a pair hooked up Sir? SSG Mayo at your service.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 6:45 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 06:45:46 -0400

interesting. While our Dress uniforms are much less complicated there is something oddly rewarding about properly assembling a crisp uniform. I guess I just enjoy looking sharp.

Response by SGT Robert George made Apr 14 at 2017 8:23 AM

SGT Robert George — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:23:06 -0400

Looking very sharp Col.

Response by SSG Bethany Viglietta made Apr 14 at 2017 10:21 AM

SSG Bethany Viglietta — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:21:31 -0400

As a female I am envious of those who can pay to get their uniforms set up. Even knowing the regulations, it could take hours to be sure that my racks were even and straight and my badges not look like pasties. If nursing school doesn't work out, maybe I will open my own shop for those who value time over money/will be willing to pay to have theirs done. It is definitely easier to spot check a uniform than put it together. Should a soldier be able to put together his or her own uniform, absolutely, but is it the worst thing if they pay someone else to do it? No. I pay for services I don't love doing all the time.

Response by MSgt Bill Henry made Apr 14 at 2017 12:16 PM

MSgt Bill Henry — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:16:56 -0400

I really don't see the problem.

Response by CSM William DeWolf made Apr 14 at 2017 2:46 PM

CSM William DeWolf — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:46:38 -0400

Old School = Good School and thanks for asking your 1SG or CSM to check it!

Response by MSG Mark Million made Apr 14 at 2017 3:45 PM

MSG Mark Million — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:45:43 -0400

Hmm, I'm old school myself and also do it myself. That being said, the fact that a mere photo can potentially make or break a career is sufficient reason in my mind to get outside expert help to hopefully ensure the best possible results.

Response by PFC G.W. Wright made Apr 14 at 2017 4:14 PM

PFC G.W. Wright — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:14:27 -0400

I can't believe people are making a big deal out of this. You're already dropping your class A's at the cleaners, why not have some Asian lady who's married to a retired CSM put your bling on? It may not be a problem for you office soldiers to put the time into doing this yourselves, but when you keep us in the motor pool for 14 hours a day for no valid reason other than picking up cig butts and pulling weeds (conex inspection anyone?), what else do you expect us to do?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 4:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:23:22 -0400

Sir, I have never paid anyone to set up my dress uniform. However, I am surprised that some of you say you can set up your uniform in 30 or so minutes. I spend nearly 2 hours every time before I get fed up. I know the measurements by heart. However, every time I set something in place, I can find that there is an item that is slightly off. I find the process maddening, and I would love to be able to set my uniform up in half an hour to a standard that I find acceptable.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Apr 15 at 2017 3:30 AM

SGT Tony Clifford — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 03:30:08 -0400

Well sir, I am not surprised to hear this. I personally wouldn't trust anyone but myself because I had alterations done to my uniform by the post alteration shop when I got back from deployment because we used to get class A inspections every quarter. When I got it back my service stripe was on my right arm and my hash marks were on the left. After that the only alterations I ever trusted anyone with was fittings. When I made sergeant I sewed my own chevrons on and put on new service stripes and hash marks myself. Sewing is a valuable skill set that any soldier deployed to a remote shithole FOB should learn or they'll have trap doors in their trousers. The ACUs were notorious for falling apart especially when they were first issued in 05'. I would recommend to all of your soldiers that they learn to do it. They can only trust themselves, because if your uniform is jacked up at inspection you can blame the alterations shop.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 8:46 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:46:58 -0400

Like Soldiers haven't been doing this forever? I'm pretty sure starting with the military build up of South Korea Soldiers have been using services to get out of ironing, shining and putting their uniform together. Heck, I remember back in 2000 on Fort Gordon you could take your boots in on post for shining.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 11:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:35:20 -0400

I have always setup my own Dress Uniform, but only because I am a cheapskate. I also still setup my own ribbons, versus buying them premade with a no-space flat rack. Given that the Army is a professionalized career field that is often focused on aesthetics, I don't see an issue with paying someone to make you look the best when it counts the most. Now in the circumstances where we are truly trying to gauge knowledge of regulation and attention to detail, then having a 3rd party setup should absolutely be frowned upon, as it defeats the purpose.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 2:56 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:56:23 -0400

don't hate the player, hate the game. Army uniforms are getting more and more things to put on them, awards for everything and too often we don't award individual efficiency we just want people to look the part.
I have always had more time than money so I did it myself, but I guess there are worse things a junior Soldier can spend their money on.

Response by SFC James Nallin made Apr 15 at 2017 5:27 PM

SFC James Nallin — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:27:41 -0400

1973-1978 We had Class A and Class B inspection and had to Travel in them

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 15 at 2017 6:35 PM

SFC Marcus Belt — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:35:37 -0400

We recently had a SGT fail to win a NCO of the Month Board precisely because his jump boots weren't professionally shined. Solely because of that issue because the CSM said he'd have won otherwise.

So that's where we are now. Not sure how we got here, not sure whether it's good or bad, but it is where we are.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 6:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:53:34 -0400

I promptly pointed out all the reasons why a proud PFC wasted his $10, because the cleaner did not set his uniform up properly on many counts. He thought he was being resourceful.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 9:04 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:04:32 -0400

Looking sharp Colonel!!!

Response by SGT Drew Clark made Apr 15 at 2017 9:31 PM

SGT Drew Clark — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:31:15 -0400

I joined in 2003 I took all my uniforms BDU Class A alike to cleaners to get pressed but took pride and honor measuring and sowing on Patches Badges Pins and Ribbons. That what a Jumpboot Wearing Paratrooper does.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 7:50 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 07:50:03 -0400

I think it is a damn shame!!!

Response by CW2 Christopher Esparza made Apr 16 at 2017 9:24 AM

CW2 Christopher Esparza — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 09:24:48 -0400

In my opinion I see this as something the Army did to itself. The basis for the boots and uniforms was for the soldier to save time and money. Why spend hours per day shining boots? Why spend so much money having patches sewn on and removed; and having uniforms highly starched? It's just the latest trend in convenience. Honestly didn't everyone get a shaved and shaped beret from Ranger Joe's?

Good old American capitalism. The folks at your local cleaners see a loss in revenue from not having 300-500 uniforms coming thru the doors for pressing. So what if we offer a service that we will set up the uniforms so that they are ready to wear when they leave the shop?

Honestly, I wish they had the service when I was in uniform. The biggest draw back from taking my A's to the cleaners more often was the thought of the pain in the ass of having to put everything back on.

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Apr 16 at 2017 11:11 AM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:11:38 -0400

I always set up my own class A uniform. Is some one paying to have it done any different than a Generals aid conducting this task?

Response by SSG Ray Murphy made Apr 16 at 2017 11:22 AM

SSG Ray Murphy — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:22:58 -0400

Did not even know that was ever an option. Sad really. Discipline, or the lack thereof.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 11:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:36:51 -0400

Sir, I completely agree, it is ridiculous that soldiers, from the lower enlisted, to junior and senior NCOs, even some officers, would take their uniforms and their awards to a cleaner to have their awards put on for then, and in the case of those who wear jump boots in uniform, as well no longer wear bdus, pay to have the shined. It, to me, shows a lack of interest and care about the uniform to not set it up yourself. There are quick and simple guide out in the market to help, and hell, you can even go to your first line, 1sg, or whoever you know is proficient in setting up a uniform. The standards are set in AR 670-1, not all that hard to understand. All it takes on your part is a bit of dedication and a willingness to learn, and more often than not, it will make you more willing to put your uniform on knowing you put all that care and attention to detail into it, knowing that you made it look great over some civilian or some random Joe you paid to do it, there's just no longer any sense of pride in wearing the uniform after that.

Response by SGT Walter Lester made Apr 16 at 2017 11:45 AM

SGT Walter Lester — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:45:32 -0400

I think it's a disgrace that this is being done. We had to learn in basic and AIT where everything goes on our uniform and the measurements on the uniform. This action should be against regulations, if the military doesn't have the regulation, one should be passed.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Apr 16 at 2017 11:50 AM

SGT Mathew Husen — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:50:10 -0400

Nothing new, people been doing this for decades.

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Apr 16 at 2017 12:02 PM

CW4 Anthony Carbo — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:02:20 -0400

Here is my Official DA Photo from 1984, for promotion to CW#, did my own set-up BTW did get CW3.

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Apr 16 at 2017 12:05 PM

CW4 Anthony Carbo — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:05:52 -0400

my official DA Photo 1984, Set it up myself, BTW Made CW3

Response by SGT Alejandro Benavides made Apr 16 at 2017 12:38 PM

SGT Alejandro Benavides — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:38:57 -0400

I tried doing it when I was a private because it was convenient... turn out that they didn't use rulers, just eye ball it. I had to reset my entire uniform. I learn my lessson that day. I've never had a poor inspection since because I took the time to take pride on what I've earned.

Response by SPC John Decker made Apr 16 at 2017 12:43 PM

SPC John Decker — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:43:50 -0400

If I had stayed in and earned more bling, I would have, with a sense of honor, prepared my uniform myself. Part of the self discipline that was instilled in me in basic. Something, that in my opinion, seems to be missing in today's military.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 12:59 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:59:27 -0400

Every time I've had a Soldier show up for an inspection with a uniform that he had paid to be set up, I've found something (usually multiple somethings) wrong with it. The whole idea is wrong. Laziness, lack of attention to detail, lack of pride in the uniform. You name it. This is a scourge on professionalism and must be stamped out with prejudice.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Apr 16 at 2017 1:15 PM

SSG Darrell Peters — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 13:15:47 -0400

When a dear friend of mine who retired from the army and who passed away, due to Cancer. His wife asked a fellow soldier he served with him to set up his Uniform prior to his Funeral Service. The Soldier who set up the Uniform was also a friend of mine and considered it an Honor to do this for a fellow soldier and a friend.
They are family members who have been faced with the same circumstance who I fear have turned to these "professional " services. paying high fees.. I have always felt that when a brother or sister in arms passes on it is a duty and and honor to insure if they wish to be buried in uniform. That their Uniform be set up by a fellow soldier, a friend, a brother or sister in arms as a final act of duty and love.

Response by SGT Michael Thorin made Apr 16 at 2017 1:19 PM

SGT Michael Thorin — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 13:19:34 -0400

Attention to detail is what makes soldiers. We do the "smaller" things in the military a certain way because it is in the small things that we prepare ourselves for the larger things. If a soldier can't be trusted to have his wall locker in order and as prescribed by regulations, can you really trust that soldier to maintain his weapon or carry out orders?

Attention to detail in garrison, as bad as any soldier hates to admit it, is how we judge how an untested soldier will perform in combat. Say what you will, but this is a true saying. While some soldiers may be great warriors and have a few issues here and there in garrison, they should at least be able to shine during the occasional inspection, DA photo, or when going before a board.

The ability to set up your own uniform correctly is a pretty basic task. In my opinion, since the proper wearing of your uniform is actually taken into consideration during your boards and DA photos, then it should be mandatory that the soldier sets up his/her own uniform.

Honestly, when going before a board, can you get someone to come in and perform any facing movements you are required to do? Can you have someone come in for you and sing the Army song? Can you have someone come in to answer the questions for you?

No, no, no. So, why then should you have someone set your uniform up for you, as it is just as much a part of your boards as the other.

Humble opinion only.

P.S. If you are and officer or an NCO, I do not see how you could, with a clear conscience, have someone else prepare your uniform for you and then require that your troops know all the regulations and requirements for the proper care and wearing of the uniform. The quickest way to lose the respect of your soldiers is to require them to do something which you cannot do yourself.

Shame on you if you do.

Once again, my opinion only.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 2:17 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:17:47 -0400

In all of my 14 years in the Military not once did I take my ASUs Class As to the cleaner I did everything by hand w an iron and steamer and set the uniform up myself.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 2:23 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:23:15 -0400

they apparently pay for rolled neck ties for the navy. i always rolled mines.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 2:34 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:34:12 -0400

Some people might be lazy, other people may not be very good at it. If you can't draw a straight line, how are you suppose to get collar brass evenly one inch from each side? I remember a lot of argument about chlorofram shoes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 5:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:53:23 -0400

I agree... I enjoy just getting a six pack and taking my time on it. I'll be doing this shortly anyway. Just had mine altered (taking it in a little, good PT you know) picking them up Wednesday and setting up for my first photo.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Apr 16 at 2017 6:37 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:37:01 -0400

Sir, one question?
Do you use any resource available in performing your duties.
If the answer is yes, then the average soldier is doing what you are doing.
They just have the money to spend on something that they could do themselves

Response by SSG Al Palmieri made Apr 16 at 2017 6:55 PM

SSG Al Palmieri — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:55:09 -0400

Unfortunately, today is the day that I've seen a Col call the things on his uniform "Crap"

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 16 at 2017 7:19 PM

SFC Marcus Belt — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:19:32 -0400

Dress uniforms and the stuff we use them for, are, in fact, tangential to killing people and breaking stuff, and I've never been overly fond of stuff that wasn't in furtherance of same.

That said, Soldiers tend to fall into two broad categories: I think of them as "mission focused" and "military focused". One sees the folderol associated with military service as an impediment to accomplishing the mission, the other sees it as essential. Which camp one belongs to informs their position on this issue.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Apr 16 at 2017 8:09 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 20:09:15 -0400

Concur. Personal pride my uniform dictates that I DO IT. It's MY responsibility. That am I am a uniform nazi. It has to be correct. If mine is wrong how in the hell can I begin to correct another Marine who is incorrect? My pet peeve is attachments on ribbons, where single stars and multiples are mixed up, upside down or not straight. Basic uniform 101. The Master Gunnys head is spinning...

Photo is 10 years after I retired, attending my nieces graduation at MCRD Parris Island, SC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 8:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 20:22:34 -0400

You guys are tools. If I can pay to have it done both professionally and right, why wouldn't I. Gives me more time with family or concentrating on other NCO duties. I do agree that every NCO needs to know the regs, how to properly wear and display the uniform to teach younger subordinates, and understand what one gets out of doing it yourself (discipline). But after that is said and done, if a competent soldier wants to pay for hisuniforms, knock yourself out. No difference back in the day taking cammies to dry cleaners for heavy starch on duty days. Don't never knock a sharp looking soldier when so many take no pride in their uniforms today

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 9:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 21:47:37 -0400

I hate to say it but I think it reflects deeper in that there is no need to polish boots, or press those BDU's we used to wear. I could get into basic training being softer, yes many can call me out on this, but I saw the cell phones in the hands of "recruits" going through basic at Sand Hill Ft Benning. How is basic training supposed to break a person down and build them back up when the individual is calling home thus preventing part of that process.
The military should adapt to new ideas and the times but also should be getting those individuals joining to adapt to the military as it should be not as the softer side I see it turning into. A simple processes such as polishing boots is lost and if we cant expect that then how do we expect people to properly set up their own uniforms?
I also believe in Old School as a prior enlisted Marine and now an Army Officer.

Response by MSgt Timothy Brock made Apr 16 at 2017 10:07 PM

MSgt Timothy Brock — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:07:37 -0400

In a world full of multiple deployments, high stress and a high tempo life. Sometimes it's nice to just have someone do it for you. It never means less pride in your career, appearance or your uniform in general, It's not a big deal..

Response by MSG David Johnson made Apr 16 at 2017 10:21 PM

MSG David Johnson — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 22:21:51 -0400

I think it's a sad day when a Soldier doesn't know how to set up his uniform.
As for the DA photo; my packet was going to the E8 board and I needed a photo. As my last photo had been as an E6 I needed to update, the catch? I was at Mobilization station, no dress uniform. There were 3 of us who had DA photos in the ACU uniform.
But I do know how to set up all my stuff and would correct others if they were jacked up.
The biggest one now is the NUC. It is a unit award from the Navy but there are a lot of Soldiers authorized it as well. There is a Navy personal award that is very similar and some of the guys got confused because the NUC doesn't have a wreath around it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 11:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 23:14:10 -0400

I put on all my own stuff. No need to have someone else do it. Just have it tailored or dry cleaned that's all I pay to have done

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2017 11:21 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Apr 2017 23:21:48 -0400

Oh I don't know. I always took pride in setting up my uniforms 18 of the 24 years I served. I wore civilian suits my last six years.

I have different thoughts about that. I used to mow my own lawn too and hire it done now.
I guess if there had been a service back then to do it and changed uniforms quite often I might have considered it; but then again I probably wouldn't have liked the way something was aligned and would have done it over.

Response by PV2 Barbara Houff made Apr 17 at 2017 12:17 AM

PV2 Barbara Houff — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 00:17:35 -0400

A lot of what we saw as pride has been taken out of the military..it's sad

Response by Cpl Gabriel F. made Apr 17 at 2017 12:44 AM

Cpl Gabriel F. — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 00:44:12 -0400

Welcome to the army Mr. Jones.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 17 at 2017 2:04 AM

SSG John Jensen — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 02:04:25 -0400

a Cal Guard officer on his way to duty was pulled over by the CHP, and noticing a service pin on the CHPs uniform, thought he'ld BS his way out of the ticket, his Class As were on the hanger on the hook that most sedans have, at the end of it all the CHP officer gave the Cal Guard officer his ticket for his infraction and attached was a listing of all of the discreprencies on his uniform, and CHP officer added a signature of an ex- DI

Response by SGT William Shelton made Apr 17 at 2017 2:30 AM

SGT William Shelton — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 02:30:00 -0400

Yep must be old school because if I approached my 1sg or csm to check my uniform for a board or promotion I'd of had a real bad time if you catch my drift.

Response by Sgt George Lawrence made Apr 17 at 2017 2:53 PM

Sgt George Lawrence — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:53:41 -0400

Old school is the best school, Colonel. Good for you. Of course, only you can call all those ribbons, medals and other awards you have earned "crap". Humility is a sign of an excellent leader. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2017 3:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:45:38 -0400

This is why people think a Soldier is squared away when they first meet, just to find out after working with them, that they are the complete opposite.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Apr 18 at 2017 3:14 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 15:14:39 -0400

I finally broke down at about year 18 and had a ribbon rack made. I could never get the consecutive award devices on straight enough to my own satisfaction. I ruined several trying.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Apr 18 at 2017 4:16 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:16:17 -0400

Well Sir, if you were wearing your uniform while mucking out the barn then WHOSE fault is it that you have a lot of shit on your uniform?.... :-).

Response by Riley McElfish made Apr 20 at 2017 2:03 AM

Riley McElfish — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:03:35 -0400

I'm 16 years old in high school and I set up my own uniform... I guess the world's just getting lazy or something. I use a ruler and a level when setting up my uniforms. I'll stay up late the night before uniform day shining my shoes and making sure my class B's are squared away.

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 20 at 2017 10:16 PM

MSG James Hughs — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:16:48 -0400

Like college students that pay "nerds" to take their exams.....eventually it will catch up to them. I once saw a colonel chew out a captain for not having his brass on correctly......and this captain's response was...."Yes sir, I will talk to my wife about that.....!"..... somehow I feel he will never be "field grade"..... I once told a cadet "You lead by example ; not by authority"....He said he understood but would not do it (wear the same uniform as the troops he led in the field).... Later....after he was commissioned.....his first OER read "This officer has no leadership ability"..... you can not teach those that refuse to learn

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Apr 21 at 2017 9:01 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 21:01:48 -0400

As you, I always did so myself. I took pride in my uniform!!! It made me even PROUDER knowing mine was as good, AND BETTER at times (or the CO knew I did it myself) when I got noticed above those who paid for the service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2017 8:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:45:25 -0400

I'd have to preface this knowing that it appears that I'm in the minority here.

The military has always been about efficiency and effectiveness. Pride and attention to detail is surely important. However the only thing that remains the same in the military is change. Change generally means that things are trying to be improved.

Spit shining combat boots was deemed a waste of time, regardless to the care and discipline and attention to detail it required. It was simply a waste of time. Hence, the new boots, you do not shine. Boots had to be so damn shiny that you didn't dare wear the ones that you used for inspection... So apparently "inspections" weren't about inspecting the combat effectiveness of a soldier, because they would inspect their daily uniform, not their pretty BDU's inspection uniform.

The same goes with starching. Starching BDU's was an attempt to look so damn good that it was a point of bragging rights that your uniform could stand up by itself. Still that doesn't effect the combat effectiveness of a soldier... how much starch can you get on a uniform.

I digress, a little. To consider outsourcing a task to 3rd party is not a symbol of laziness, or lack of pride etc... but a weighed conscious decision of time to effort to reward.

I'd like to present the analogy of the pride of lawn care. To deem those who outsource their lawn care to a 3rd party, be it a professional company or high school kid. The homeowner decided that that was the best decision for the desired outcome and desired input.

Look back 20-30-40-50 years ago, and nearly any task that was assigned to soldiers has been in one way or another been re-tasked to a third party. Dining Facility, building maintenance and care, lawn care (not too common), security at the front gates... etc. I think its just another thing that has been decided at the lowest levels that this task is best taken on by another party

I'll caveat, that I have not taken advantage of this service.

Response by SSG Maxwell Goodman made Apr 25 at 2017 10:12 AM

SSG Maxwell Goodman — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:12:01 -0400

I paid for it once and I never did again the person did not know what they were doing and it cost me extra money and time to get it fixed. I ended up doing it myself and the only reason I did pay was because I had a last minute board and I was on Staff Duty. Other than that one time I could not see my self paying 60.00 to have my uniform cleaned and set up. That 60.00 went for beer so I could do it myself.

Response by LT Dave Martin made Apr 25 at 2017 12:16 PM

LT Dave Martin — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:16:14 -0400

From another point of view I wouldn't fret too much about this. As a former enlisted who became a Naval Officer and now a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary I sea to sew all my own patches, hem my own clothes etc. But life now moves at supersonic speeds and important and critical tasks pile up, so less important things need to be appropriately delegated. For example we no longer pack our own parachutes, even though we know how and our life depends on it being done correctly. I am sure the Captain could properly arrange his bling although he might have to pull out a copy of the uniform regs to do it. Opportunities to wear our dress uniforms have diminished greatly since I joined during Vietnam (when dress uniforms were required for Liberty) and I now wear my service dress about as often as I used to wear formal dinner dress whites. I'm guessing that the same goes for you. It's great that you have the time to set up your dress uniform after it comes back from the cleaners, and I usually do mine unless my wife gets tired of the plastic bag hanging on the door.

Response by SCPO Frank Carson made Apr 27 at 2017 3:25 PM

SCPO Frank Carson — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:25:41 -0400

Just another sign we are paid too much. Long ago when military personnel had no money they could not afford to pay for such a luxury, again wtf...

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Apr 27 at 2017 8:49 PM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:49:22 -0400

I feel that this is one of those things that comes down to a matter of personal pride. There's looking good, and then there's the satisfaction of being able to take care of ourselves; after all, there's no guarantee that someone else will get it right every time.

Response by GySgt Skip Nakashima made Apr 27 at 2017 9:10 PM

GySgt Skip Nakashima — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:10:18 -0400

I agree. The individual should do it themselves since this is part of the evaluation process. Will they pay someone to run their unit or make their decisions?

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Apr 28 at 2017 8:20 PM

Sgt William Margeson — Fri, 28 Apr 2017 20:20:03 -0400

Uniforms and decorations should be set up by the individual soldier. It is not that there is no time to do so, but lack of respect for the uniform.

Response by LCpl Jerry Havens made May 2 at 2017 2:15 PM

LCpl Jerry Havens — Tue, 02 May 2017 14:15:17 -0400

A reflection of society today, no personal responsibility.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made May 7 at 2017 10:25 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 07 May 2017 10:25:16 -0400

I always set up my uniforms, be it full dress or undress which while I was XPO of a unit was my work uniform. (Always had a set of working blues in a desk drawer in case of need.) Having said that, I did have one set of each kept aside for inspections, VIP visits etc.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made May 7 at 2017 10:42 AM

MSgt Mark Bucher — Sun, 07 May 2017 10:42:28 -0400

Yeah, I had a ton on my class A too. As a military photographer, you wouldn't believe how messed up some uniforms are. We'd shoot a few DA photos, and I'd always get called into the studio by my young troops to intercede or assist with you Army types. It was never our responsibility to tape or stuff your uniforms. Had to ask a SFC to go away when he wouldn't listen to my line of reasoning once. He wasn't too happy.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 7 at 2017 10:48 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 07 May 2017 10:48:15 -0400

COL Charles Williams I support your approach to setting up the uniform. A ruler helps. The modern commercial ribbon blocks make that part easy at reasonable cost. I don't see paying somebody to put your stuff on your uniform. I say, have your uniform dry cleaned regularly, have your shirts laundered, shine your shoes, get out the reg and put the ribbons and badges on the uniform and be confident that you have done it right.

Response by SGT Matt Schiess made May 10 at 2017 10:46 PM

SGT Matt Schiess — Wed, 10 May 2017 22:46:12 -0400

Sir, as a former NCO, I see both sides of the argument. But, let me point out the reality of the situation, as I saw it.
Soldiers are pretty pressed for time, and time-management is a skill that is quickly become overlooked and under appreciated by SPC Sham Mcshamshield.
SSDs, movement prep, briefings, pre-briefing briefings, and SHARP classes getting posted every other day (in my case every other drill weekend) and a lot of other stuff that fills the daily life of Mr. McShamShield.
Sure, they can time-manage a lot better, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that there are still only 24 hours in every day.
It is in that spirit that I disagree with you on a case-by-case basis.
The way I see it, as long as my soldiers' uniforms look squared away, I don't give two hoots how they got it that way.
Yes, sir, I do understand that part of military tradition and custom is to dedicate time to preparing your uniforms for duty. I remember my days of arranging my Class A's and spit-shining my boots for inspections and boards fondly...some of my best Army stories start with us all shining our boots...but this is a different Army now. We are entering a time where no new soldier will ever know what it's like to shine boots or iron their BDUs for the next day.
It's a little painful, yes, but we have to grow with the times, and to me, that means cutting the joes a little slack as long as they're squared away.
Best of luck, sir.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made May 13 at 2017 2:19 AM

SGT Eliyahu Rooff — Sat, 13 May 2017 02:19:39 -0400

The discussion brings to mind being back at Ft. Campbell in the 70s and doing my rotation at the station hospital. (I was with 86th CSH.) Every time there was an inspection, we'd spend an hour or so prior helping the doctors put their dress uniforms together properly. Left to their own devices, they'd show up with rank insignia on the lapels, name tag on the left pocket, etc. They were far more interested in practicing medicine than being soldiers.

Response by Henning Heinemann made May 16 at 2017 2:50 PM

Henning Heinemann — Tue, 16 May 2017 14:50:37 -0400

As a civilian observing this conversation, may I respectfully point out that the military as a whole has taken on an attitude of "outsourcing" to civilian industry tasks that were formerly performed by soldiers. It's rather difficult to admonish an individual soldier for acting in parallel with that of the command and control structure when that is the example that is being set at the very highest levels.

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made May 17 at 2017 10:32 PM

MAJ Bill Darling — Wed, 17 May 2017 22:32:32 -0400

Frankly, I'm not a fan of the official photo to begin with, at least for promotion purposes. Biases based on looks-not just the wear and appearance of the uniform-are bound to creep in during the selection process, never mind the concept of basing part of one's judgement for potential on such an arbitrary and arguably insignificant trait is an example of form over substance.

But more on point, I don't blame soldiers for outsourcing as it already is a consumer of resources, although less so now than before the digital era.

That said, one should be able to don one's dress uniform properly. I just don't think that the metric for that should come only at promotion time with disproportionate emphasis.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made May 19 at 2017 8:19 PM

LCpl James Robertson — Fri, 19 May 2017 20:19:53 -0400

In my opinion you always kept your class A uniform ready to go for any occasion, spit shine boots and shoes were ready also, unless you are deployed at war. That were your standby uniform.

Response by CPT Earl George made May 20 at 2017 9:10 PM

CPT Earl George — Sat, 20 May 2017 21:10:08 -0400

I am not familiar with how often they take Official DA photos now but when I was in the service, I only ever had 1 official photo taken and I was in 5+ years before that one was taken

Response by MSgt Wes Tracy made May 21 at 2017 12:45 PM

MSgt Wes Tracy — Sun, 21 May 2017 12:45:36 -0400

I guess I always did my own setup, but before we condemn those that don't, please consider:
- Maybe they are so proud of their uniform and their service that they want to make sure it looks as professional as possible, not for them, but out of respect. Not all of us are great at positioning those little wiggly things.
- Maybe they are so wrapped up in the work or mission that they don't have time to do it themselves, so they pay out of their pocket to get it done, allowing them to better serve their unit and their country.
- Maybe they have personal family problems that preclude them sitting till midnight after a hard day's work, trying to glue those little 'so and so's' just right; a sick child or parent, perhaps?
- Maybe they are so devoted to some sorts of charity or community support that they just don't have the time. Yes, it does happen.

For those that do it themselves, I think that's great, but I can't in any way condemn those whose priorities are different. They are going out of their way to try to look their best while still meeting other needs that are important to them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2017 1:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 May 2017 13:06:53 -0400

Fort Bragg is the only duty station that I've been to that has places in the community that will set up your uniform, shine your boots, etc. I'm so used to doing it myself that I wouldn't take it to somebody else. Also, being an NCO I'm expected to know how to do this correctly. Imagine telling a Soldier, "I don't know how that's supposed to go on your uniform, but there's a place outside the gate that will do it for you."

Response by MAJ John Douglas made May 25 at 2017 1:32 PM

MAJ John Douglas — Thu, 25 May 2017 13:32:37 -0400

I don't see a problem with it. We paid people to shine our boots at jump school. Is there a difference?

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made May 26 at 2017 10:01 PM

MAJ Keira Brennan — Fri, 26 May 2017 22:01:18 -0400

Sir, I served from '87-'12 and back in the day had my BDUs pressed professionally but spit shined my own size 9 Cochrans. As a troop leader I always felt time was more important than money. It seems a tad lazy having someone put together an ASU for inspections/board but I don't begrudge them. My own thought was that back in 2006ish when the Army adopted the ACU that some high speed NCO would figure a way to make the uniform sharp and boots shine. Didn't happen.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made May 29 at 2017 12:20 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 29 May 2017 00:20:09 -0400

I was thinking one of those photo boards with the hole in it and a portrait of what they want. Each person could stick their head through and have the picture snapped.

Response by SFC Kevin Cornett made May 29 at 2017 3:26 AM

SFC Kevin Cornett — Mon, 29 May 2017 03:26:19 -0400

Honestly...
there is so much more that we should concerned about in regards to Soldiers and Soldiering.

But maybe that's just me.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2017 6:47 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 May 2017 18:47:09 -0400

I've never done it, but I don't have a problem with it. I guess I don't see it as much different from people taking uniforms that can be machine washed and ironed to the cleaners (which a lot of people do) or getting shoes shined (ditto there). I've never seen it offered as a service, and I'm actually just really impressed with the business thinking on that one.

But I'm also with the folks who say that accountability for the uniform being put together correctly remains with its wearer.

Response by SPC Herb Jorgensen made Jun 1 at 2017 11:02 AM

SPC Herb Jorgensen — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 11:02:02 -0400

So truly lazy not to set you down uniforms,am so tired of the auto pay and lack of lack disciple with service these days.If you earn the wear of the uniform have the decency to do as well.

Response by SPC Paul Vaneizenga made Jun 2 at 2017 12:15 PM

SPC Paul Vaneizenga — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 12:15:21 -0400

I have seen some pretty ate up soldiers in the field that look like gold in the rear. I guess it can go both ways.

Response by SPC Curtis Fortin made Jun 3 at 2017 11:12 AM

SPC Curtis Fortin — Sat, 03 Jun 2017 11:12:29 -0400

More ridicules crap

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Jun 4 at 2017 1:05 AM

SGT Chester Beedle — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 01:05:36 -0400

At first yeah, WTF... but then if you give it a little more thought it's not that much different than paying someone to shine your boots (in the BDU and older days) or shoes (prior to Corfams). Not much different than buying Sta-Brite insignia instead of pulling out the can of Brasso and some rags.
If you want to take it to an extreme you could call it a point of pride to have sewn on your own patches

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2017 6:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 18:55:24 -0400

My argument would be, what's the difference between a CPT paying someone to put their uniform together and a 4-Star General having an aide-de-camp prepare their uniform? The General has better things to do than put his uniform together, right? It's all about time management. If that CPT decided his time is more valuable than the $20 he paid for this service I can't disagree. Some people take 2-3 hours putting their uniform together, so that works out to $7-$10 an hour. Sounds pretty smart and efficient to me.

Also, I'm a former Old Guard soldier and will gladly do uniforms for $50

Response by SSgt John Smythe made Jun 6 at 2017 1:15 PM

SSgt John Smythe — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 13:15:13 -0400

When I was in during the 90's. The uniform regulations seemed to change by the day. So I would always get all my uniforms done. They were done correctly, starched and pressed razor sharp and it left me just that much more time to focus on my job and required training.

Response by CW4 Tim Leival made Jun 8 at 2017 2:20 PM

CW4 Tim Leival — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:20:09 -0400

"Have you noticed that throughout military history no regular army has ever beaten a well-led guerrilla army? If we use the regular army in Algeria, we will lose. I'd like France to have two armies: one for parades with handsome fieldpieces, polished tanks, little tin soldiers, bands, general staffs, and lovable old curmudgeons to command it... the other would be for real, composed of nothing but young men super-trained, all volunteers, wearing camouflaged fatigues, whom you'd never see in town but from whom the impossible would be asked and to whom we would teach all the tricks. That's the army I'd like to fight in." - Jean Letarguy "The Centurions"

Attention to detail and pride can just as easily be inculcated with advanced weapons training and discipline in conducting operations. The time spent polishing boots and aligning medals awarded for breathing could be better spent learning a language, doing more PT, developing contingency plans, analyzing intelligence, performing depot level maintenance, etc.

Uniforms and ceremony came out of a need to codify the basic martial currency: respect. Like all currencies, it has its own entropic course of devaluation by overuse. Letarguy suggest a method to satisfy both human needs for pomp and effectiveness. I doubt very much that any culture could afford both armies, but trying to have one army satisfy both needs will always leave something to be desired.

So what do we really want of our ground forces? Excellent uniforms with precise drill and ceremony or dead enemies?

For all you out there who would disparage me and question my professionalism for this heresy: Yes, I have served for more than a day as an officer, NCO and a Warrant Officer and yes, I continue to set up my own uniform. I do pay to have the sewing and dry cleaning done, if that mitigates hypocrisy.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jun 11 at 2017 12:13 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:13:42 -0400

I knew where everything belonged on My uniform and never had any help setting ti up. It was a thought that never entered My mind. I kept My uniforms ready anyway and at any time I could but them on and pass muster in any situation. Its not all that hard to do.

Response by 1SG Gerald Schroeder made Jun 11 at 2017 4:51 PM

1SG Gerald Schroeder — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 16:51:55 -0400

Col Williams, you are spot on. As an enlisted member, when I was a junior soldier I always set my own uniform up and asked guidance from my leadership on how it looked and if all ribbons and badges were in the proper order. I also used AR 670-1 prior to going to my leadership. I did this throughout my career which got me promoted to MSG and appointed as a 1SG.

Soldiers should take pride in what they do, there is no pride in paying someone to do your uniform for you. I loved pressing my BDUs/DCUs/ACUs, spit shinning my boots, no matter where I was, and prepping my own Class As/Dress Blues for boards, dining in/out, funeral detail, etc.. I didn't need another person to fulfil my duties/responsibilities. Take pride in being a Soldier. There is no better title/job. 1SG (Ret) Schroeder

Response by Lt Col Robert Canfield made Jun 11 at 2017 10:23 PM

Lt Col Robert Canfield — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:23:00 -0400

Gee ...and I thought I was going a little overboard by purchasing a custom-made, mail-order ribbon rack so that everything would look good for my B&W official photo. I guess I don't feel so bad now.

Response by PO2 Richard Blakey made Jun 12 at 2017 12:48 AM

PO2 Richard Blakey — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:48:14 -0400

wish i did

Response by Marlene Hessler made Jun 15 at 2017 3:46 PM

Marlene Hessler — Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:46:27 -0400

The current generation has been pampered to the extreme. When my kids were in school, homework was their work. They had theirs, I had mine. Today Communist Core has homework assigned to the kids and parents. Parents get notes to "teach this to Suzy tonight". I kid you not. You thought the teachers were to teach kids. Not today. They teach the parents that it is their responsibility. They get their homework assignments online. So, even if your kid is in public school, he or she is being homeschooled BY YOU. This teaches kids that their PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE. Projects always require large investments at local stores. In past generations, finding stuff to reprogram taught us to be creative and think for ourselves. One of my grandson's teachers told me last spring that kids no longer think. They google. If they cannot google an answer, they quit.

How long before soldiers expect to hire someone to do their PT? Or 10 mile hikes? It's coming.

Our schools, and we've allowed it, have produced a quite worthless generation of 'entitled'. Entitled to healthcare. Entitled to welfare, food stamps. Entitled to a guaranteed cradle to grave existence.

What an earthquake will occur if they ever wake up and find it not to be true.

Response by SGT Kevin Taber made Jun 16 at 2017 10:21 PM

SGT Kevin Taber — Fri, 16 Jun 2017 22:21:11 -0400

That's nothing recent. They used to do that shit in the 80s too

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2017 7:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 07:40:50 -0400

I'm going to be honest with you sir as I am guilty of doing this from time to time. I do too agree that it's unprofessional to "pay" a service to setup your uniform. When I first came in I even bought one of those books that teach you how to set up your dress uniform properly. Then I decided to give it a shot by paying someone at the dry cleaners to see if they do a better job then me. For me it was hit or miss as sometimes they never got it right as in the measurements were off, ribbons in the wrong order, etc.

When we got inspected most of us in the unit stopped carrying to be honest because different people would inspect your uniform and they all would have different interpreting of yes, your good or no, you're flat out ate up. Another thing is that I'm in a busy, fast paced unit that's common to have 0630 work calls and 1800-2000 late close outs. I guess it's an 82nd Airborne thing and as an Aviation unit, we have to support everyone even if the BCT's get to take turns going to the field. Plus we still shine boots here compared to most of big Army which already wear low quarters.

A lot of Soldiers (who actually work and sometimes om weekend) simply do not have the time to shine their boots. The rest either don't know how or are too lazy. I enjoy doing do because it reminds me of waxing/detailing my car. Now when I was on funeral detail and had a lot of services to provide every other day then absolutely, having the cleaners offer that service was definitely a good option due to the on call changing schedule for that detail.

Response by CDR Jim M. made Jun 18 at 2017 10:43 PM

CDR Jim M. — Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:43:21 -0400

The Marine Corps taught me leadership, leading from the front and requiring yourself to be willing and able to do whatever you asked your men to do. Later in life my police uniform always was freshly pressed, clean and set up exactly per refs, because the Corps required it of me. I had heavy duty felons tell me that the primary reason they chose not to fight me at an arrest was that my uniform conveyed I was able and willing to do whatever was necessary to do my job. My drill sergeant at OCS never knew what an impact his training on uniform specs would do tor me in the future! Foyt five years later I'm still grateful.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jun 19 at 2017 4:42 AM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 04:42:47 -0400

COL Charles Williams I totally agree that you hit it right on the head sir. As a very young boy my mother taught me to dress myself. She didn't go to boot camp or any following assignments; I learned how my uniforms where supposedto be put together.

That was all I ever needed throughoutmy career. Well, that and a copy of Uniform Regs.

Response by MSgt Brian Potvin made Jun 20 at 2017 4:14 AM

MSgt Brian Potvin — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 04:14:47 -0400

I can't believe that is even a thing. If you don't have the dedication, desire, and attention to detail to put your own uniform together, I don't want you in uniform. Shame on anyone who has ever paid someone else to put their uniform together.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 1:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:14:27 -0400

No one "has" to pay anyone to do this. They choose to because they're lazy. I have never done this. I put everything on myself. Then I adjust it at home in the mirror. THEN I bring it in and have someone else look at it and let me know what's messed up still and isn't. I don't think I would ever pay someone to do this. I don't have money to waste on things like this.

Response by MSG David Goodwin made Jun 23 at 2017 5:39 AM

MSG David Goodwin — Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:39:23 -0400

It is definitely sad that it appears to be no pride in putting your own uniform together, especially for an important event such as a promotion board. This should be looked at as your finest hour for presentation. My class A's was the only uniform was the only one that was sent out to be cleaned ( only because I did not have the means to do it) all acouterments for said uniform was handled by me.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2017 9:47 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:47:09 -0400

I think this is strictly personal preference. As a young Marine I ironed my BDU's myself. That is until I could afford to have someone else do it. They looked better and stayed pressed longer when the cleaners did it versus when I did it. Plus, it was easier and saved me time to drop off 4 sets on a Friday and pick them up on Sunday. Doing so freed me up to do other stuff. I don't see the setting up of a dress uniform any differently. If it saves you time, go for it. The soldier is still 100% responsible for the accuracy of the uniform. We (especially as officers) delegate stuff all the time. I don't see this being different.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 27 at 2017 1:25 AM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 01:25:43 -0400

I know I should not comment on my own posts.... But, I saw it again today.... 2 x Engineer 2LTs dropping off their class As for cleaning, along with all their insignia and accouterments... WTF...

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jun 27 at 2017 1:45 PM

SSgt Holden M. — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:45:09 -0400

I personally feel as though paying somebody to set-up their uniform is stupid. How will they know if they got taken advantage of and the ribbons could be all messed up for all they know. Also I would get the occasional question when I was in my dress uniform what a certain ribbon was. If you don't know what order they go in how can you tell them what ribbon is what. Also how can you take true pride in something you paid somebody to set-up.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Jun 29 at 2017 1:52 PM

Capt Al Parker — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 13:52:12 -0400

Doesn't that come under self discipline, which seems to be less emphasized in the now days military. Of course back in the 70's It was recommended that I get a professional photographer to take my official photo. I had a grey beard area even when I shave. I didn't because not every Air Force Officer could look like "Buzz Sawyer".

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2017 2:06 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:06:57 -0400

My boys learned at 11 and 13 that I didnt sew on their merit badges. They earned them, they sew them. The only exception I make is their first rank badge (scout) and their last (and only if its an Eagle). - all the rest they must sew on themselves. Maybe the issue is too many mommies sewing on badges. I swear the boys with rank held on by 3 badly placed stitches feel more proud of that rank than the boys whose mother sewed it on with professional expertise.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jun 29 at 2017 3:26 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:26:57 -0400

Not in my Army. The Photographer might say something or even help with a last minute adjustment for you, if he saw something and if he thought you were worthy...

Response by SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy made Jul 1 at 2017 2:54 PM

SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 14:54:07 -0400

I can hardly imagine an NCO or Petty Officer who would lack the ability to properly care for and appropriately place awards, badges and the like on his/her uniform. Lacking this rudimentary ability speaks volumes about professionalism, training and attention to detail. HMCS (Ret.) Corpsman of Marines.

Response by SPC Robert McKay made Jul 5 at 2017 11:56 AM

SPC Robert McKay — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 11:56:09 -0400

From my earliest days of watching my Grandfather and my Father prepare their uniforms for DA photos, inspections, boards.....I always noticed the great pride and professionalism they took in preparation of their uniform . From the first day I entered the military, I always carried that pride and professionalism with me in my daily preparations.

Response by Sgt Marbury Keys made Jul 6 at 2017 2:11 PM

Sgt Marbury Keys — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 14:11:26 -0400

I was in sometime ago and I know things change. However, we did get a uniform allowance - not much. So, paying for my uniforms was not a problem - just cut down on the beer. Pay up - be sharp!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2017 12:33 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:33:16 -0400

Never did it but now that you mention it, if you trust someone else to put your bling on your uniform, then have at it. All those ribbons and $7.95 will buy you a latte at Charbucks!

Response by AN Eric Lewis made Jul 10 at 2017 6:57 PM

AN Eric Lewis — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 18:57:58 -0400

I was Navy from 86 to 90. The uniform shop on base was always happy to oblige a sailors request to set up a uniform for an inspection, or to sew on new rank patches, all for a price. I remember a lot of fuss over getting patches sewn on back then. Ribbons weren't much of an issue. Hardly anyone had any. I'm sure patches are still an issue now. The uniform shop was often slow and was expensive, and one was given a short window to get things changed over after promotion or command change. I usually kept myself in beer and cigarettes because mom insisted her boys learn to take care of ourselves as adults. I could swap a transmission in a shipmate's pickup in the morning and sew his Petty Officer 2nd Class crows in the afternoon, all for a case of beer and carton of smokes - the standard currency in the 80's Navy! The price was much cheaper than the uniform shop.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Jul 10 at 2017 9:10 PM

1SG John B. Enlow — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 21:10:53 -0400

Having soldiers prepare their own uniforms for inspections or DA photos builds self-confidence and develops a lifelong attention to detail. I retired in 1995 and have been in the business world for 20 years. I can spot a former service member two blocks away. They take pride in the way they dress and the way they carry themselves. I hire them every chance I get. So, for the younger service members out there - don't take short cuts.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jul 11 at 2017 12:03 AM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Tue, 11 Jul 2017 00:03:08 -0400

Im Dutch. Would never cross my mind to pay someone for something I can do.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Jul 11 at 2017 10:08 PM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Tue, 11 Jul 2017 22:08:25 -0400

As long as there is a market for.something, people will pay. If you are crazy enough to trust a civilian to set up your uniform, you'll deserve what you get, if they jack it up.

Response by SGT Ernesto Bloberg made Jul 14 at 2017 10:55 PM

SGT Ernesto Bloberg — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:55:27 -0400

Wow I can't believe it, what has happened to a hands on ARMY!

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Jul 15 at 2017 12:19 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:19:51 -0400

While usually did my own there was a period of time while serving in Korea in the late 1960's that we had house boys in our hooches. Our house boys took care of everything, heavy starch fatigues, wall and footlock set up, class A greens and khakis set up for us. I think we were all pretty spoiled having all these things done for us everyday. Now I read about the proposed new AR 670-1 regs, particularly the no commercially laundered ACUs or BDUs (not sure what they are called these days.)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 8:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 20:08:57 -0400

They should be ashamed of themselves.......

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 7:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 19:35:38 -0400

I will take the time to take care of my uniform and save the money...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 8:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:10:41 -0400

I wouldn't say is wrong, but I wouldn't do it and I would not encourage it. A soldiers ability to set up their own Class As, keep their uniform and bunk tidy, write reports, etc. are all reflections of themselves as soldiers, as professionals, and as an individual. It shouldn't be a reflection of someone else's abilities. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's dishonest, but I believe it misrepresents.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Jul 19 at 2017 8:15 PM

Cpl John Barker — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 20:15:12 -0400

LMAO, Marines have to pay for our own combat boots and chest rigs just to get gear that works, if all you have to pay for is your uniforms be thankful

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jul 19 at 2017 9:43 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Wed, 19 Jul 2017 21:43:04 -0400

Not a big deal as long as you verify that everything is correct. BLUF: nobody knows who puts your uniform together when they looking at you wearing it. I went like 10 years spit shining my jump boots for my A's then broke down to peer pressure and did the leather luster (thin yet shiny layer) thing. Best time-management decision I ever made. And no one ever noticed (never let it crack). Did you always iron your BDUs or broke down and took them to the cleaners? Same concept.

Response by 1SG Jeremy Evans made Jul 20 at 2017 1:00 AM

1SG Jeremy Evans — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 01:00:36 -0400

Ill have to drop a quote by Bill Gates. “I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.” By no means is it a hard job to exercise some attention to detail in squaring away YOUR uniform, but I cant say I'm surprised to hear that this an actual service. Ha, next thing will be when I send my Soldiers out for grass cutting detail and they subcontract it to the neighborhood kids.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2017 2:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:34:37 -0400

If a soldier cannot set up his/her own uniform correctly, put the time to do it correctly and have to pay someone to perform this simple task then it may be time for them to hang up said uniform.

Response by SGT Eric Knutson made Jul 20 at 2017 9:35 AM

SGT Eric Knutson — Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:35:21 -0400

your uniform is a reflection of yourself, it is your responsibility for it to look sharp. If you want to take a chance and put YOUR career in someone else's hands, hey that is your business. Every board I went to, they would look closely, ribbon device twisted a little, no big deal, hanging a little bit loosely, eh, it happens. Frayed = Flayed. This is to test YOUR attention to detail, it is actually a test of YOUR ability, not the seamstress' attention to detail. Not trying to knock them, but at the end of the day you are going to pay them anyway, and with the attitudes I see in so many Americans I would not put MY career into someone else's hands (and then wait 1 - 2 weeks someone else mentioned) for something that I can take care of in no more than 30 minutes from scratch.

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Jul 21 at 2017 10:21 AM

SFC Stephen Hester — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:21:46 -0400

I won't go so far as to say that it's unprofessional but here's no way in hell that I would ever trust someone else to set up my uniform for a DA Photo or an inspection. To me, it shows that the Soldier either does not know how or does not care to do it personally. Why trust your professional reputation and your career to someone else? Maybe that is unprofessional...

Response by LTC Robin Gronovius made Jul 21 at 2017 1:36 PM

LTC Robin Gronovius — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 13:36:26 -0400

When I was stationed at Hood in the 1990s, it was often hard to get an appointment to take a DA photo due to deployments, work requirements and the amount of people wanting DA photos. So I once had to pay to get it taken off post. I saw it as an investment in my career. Would I have rather been able to take it on post for free? Of course, but due to the pace of the First Cav in the mid 90s, it was tough and I needed it done. The photographer was a retired NCO and did a good job.

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Jul 21 at 2017 11:13 PM

SP5 Thomas Jameson — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 23:13:40 -0400

Guess they're being paid too much if they're not taking their Class As down to the riverbank and beating them with rocks?

Response by SFC Adam Rothas made Jul 22 at 2017 12:46 PM

SFC Adam Rothas — Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:46:52 -0400

This kind of service has existed for a long time. At least since I noticed it in 1990. I never used the service since I never trusted other people enough to get it right. If others wanted to do it that is their business. If a subordinate used it I would have him/her demonstrate that they could do it themselves and knew how to inspect other Soldiers uniforms, if they could well, no big deal.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2017 8:37 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jul 2017 08:37:57 -0400

I personally am against the idea of having a uniform setup and put together via a cleaner/sew shop. First of all I think it is laziness and a lack or respect for your uniform. How can you teach your soldiers on uniform wear an appearance if you do not do it yourself. If your soldiers are doing this then we as leaders need to educate them on how important it is to know how to put your uniform together.

I had taken a soldier to the board a couple years ago and made him bring his uniform in a week prior to the actual board. Some measurements were off and started asking him some questions as to what he though the spacing was. He was wrong and told me that he just had it put together by the cleaners. This also means that you cannot always trust that the cleaners will do the job right in the event you do pay them. At the very least you need to check their measurements.

Response by 1SG Erik Braun made Jul 25 at 2017 3:24 AM

1SG Erik Braun — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 03:24:10 -0400

If anyone has to "pay" someone to have THEIR uniform setup for a board or photo or...to wear, they are not ready for what they facing. These are basic steps in ones career - even if that time in only for their first enlistment obligation. Getting a second, or even third set of eyes to review YOUR work is far from taking on the task and should not be confused in anyway.

Response by Nelson Ormsby made Jul 28 at 2017 10:54 PM

Nelson Ormsby — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:54:36 -0400

As a tree-hugging civilian who has had the pledge of being afforded the opportunity to look inside your fine institution, CavDad has reflected on this phenomenon and has tentatively come to frame a different hypothesis, in contrast to the seemingly unanimous conclusion being reached by some 500 respondents here. Far from demonstrating a lack of commitment and energy, out-sourcing the horseblanket set up actually quite the opposite: (1), if CavDad's Troopers truly didn't care, then they wouldn't pay others to do it and more importantly, (2), if they weren't getting a safety brief to don the reflective belt before mounting the John Deere to mow the post grounds, sweeping sunshine off the sidewalks, rushing to get to the gym to get a workout in while officer's spouse crowd around the equipment to chat, stand around waiting three hours before being released, etc, etc, etc, then maybe the good 'ole days of self-directed Class A set-up might just reappear? Sweet Jesus I love my Troopers. CavDad Out!

Response by COL John Hudson made Jul 29 at 2017 9:43 AM

COL John Hudson — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 09:43:50 -0400

Somewhat unusual of a question, but let me throw in an experience of my own to hopefully bring balance to this. Note that I personally always 'do my own' in all things as I was taught to do, never permitting my wife to have any involvement with my uniforms and took pride in all aspects of their appearance. But, consider the following. I was aware a young, highly regarded and hard working enlisted SM was having financial troubles (he was our unit armorer). After handgun drill, I took a moment to lament my inability to make an important meeting within his hearing. I asked if he would consider a personal favor and please take a moment to clean my handgun prior to storage and offered a small sum for the act. He readily accepted and from that moment on found his cleaning expertise quite in favor from a host of contributors which boosted his morale and helped him out of the pinch he was in. Nothing illegal in this - all 'open and voluntary' and soldiers always help each other regardless of rank, even in somewhat unusual circumstances. I'm going to suggest that others have found similar opportunities to assist in what would ordinarily be common, boring tasks that nonetheless aid those with more important things to do, as noted in the examples given above. Some individuals see a 'need' and step up to provide a service...a 'win win' on both sides of the fence. I have no issue with it so long as it's understood to be "openly voluntary" and not financially burdensome.

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Jul 30 at 2017 2:07 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 02:07:56 -0400

All soldiers, enlisted or officer, should be required to bring the naked tunic to his/her 1SG or CSM, along with all the insignia of rank and other authorized accoutrements, to be assembled properly in the presence of said 1SG/CSM. Many senior NONCOMs/officers think that taking care of the soldier is making sure they groom the parade field, salute 2LTs and don't let dust bunnies grow under their bunks but that is not what it is all about. You don't let your soldiers jump without checking their rigging and rip and you don't let them put their career advancement in the hands of second parties. The care and preservation of a soldier is a 24/7 task and those who don't see it that way are guilty of fraud when they pick up that monthly stipend.

Response by SSG Douglas Kunkel made Aug 3 at 2017 2:03 PM

SSG Douglas Kunkel — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:03:38 -0400

Soldier that will not take the time to set up thier uniform don't need the promotion, I did mind for 28 years and always had it checked by the First Sargent or Company Commander.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 3:44 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 03:44:10 -0400

We're living in the age of no pride in the uniform. Just throw on the ACUs and desert boots, no ironing, no shining. We've created a lazier Soldier and this is part of the end result.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Aug 4 at 2017 5:20 AM

CPO Glenn Moss — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 05:20:04 -0400

Meh.

I think the primary question that needs to be answered is "Are these people taking care of their uniforms?"

If the answer is "yes", then who really cares? They're investing what it takes to make the uniform look sharp.

There have always been any number of businesses who specialized in military uniforms in one way or another. Tailors who adjust the size and fit. Tailor shops who used to sell pre-rolled neckerchiefs. Tailor shops who sew uniform patches on. Cleaners who clean and press uniforms.

You can even order ribbon and medal boards online nowadays.

I don't see this as any different.

Me? I used to hand sew all my uniform patches myself. The crows, the command rockers, my dolphin insignia, my name patches. I washed and ironed everything except my dress blues. Five kids in my family, and Mom & Dad didn't raise any dummies. Four boys and one girl, and we could all cook, clean, sew, wash, do construction work, rebuild an engine, hunt, fish...

Occasionally I'd have some sewing done by a uniform/tailor shop, or something cleaned by the dry cleaners.

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Aug 4 at 2017 8:49 AM

SSG Michael Burdiss — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 08:49:01 -0400

I remember you Chuck. Looking good Brother.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Aug 4 at 2017 5:16 PM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 17:16:54 -0400

My only concession to "professional" help with the uniform is (a) the dry cleaners and (b) the Ultra-Thin Ribbon Company. They can make a rack of ribbons better then anyone I've ever met.

Placing everything on the blouse? My job - if after 30 years of prepping my dress uniforms I'd better know how to do it. It started (for me) in July, 1970 when I went to boot camp. Just before my retirement ceremony in 2001 my XO gave me a quick inspection and said looking good! The only way it should be.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 4 at 2017 5:36 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 17:36:10 -0400

I paid once to have my uniform patches and rank sewed on right before an Primary NCO Development Course or BNOC as it was called then. I found out during my first in ranks inspection that my uniform was big time screwed up and I spent approx. four or five hours cutting off my rank and other badges and sewing them on myself. Never again I told myself and I never let anyone touch my uniform for the rest of my career.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 6 at 2017 11:45 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:45:57 -0400

I've been in for over 38 yrs now - this is typical of today's society, lazy. Inability or laziness is indicative of a Soldier's ability/potential and would make me wonder where else are corners being cut? Sure as hell not indicative of a leader. Early in my career, a lot of Soldiers approached me on how I polished my jump boots like glass and I actually had a CSM rip into me for wearing corfam boots, which I wasn't (he sort of apologized). What really shocked me was when a LT approached me and asked if I would do his boots for $50. I was shocked but got the compliment and no, I didn't do it (maybe for $100, I was an E-3 and it was A LOT of work). The point is he didn't ask how, he wanted to pay me to do it for him. Lazy.

Of course I suppose it's possible some kind of oddball situation could occur where a Soldier may be unable to set up their uniform and would need someone to do it for them - maybe a once in a career situation. Bottom line: I would not look kindly on any Soldier who routinely did this.

Response by SPC Kwesi Morris made Aug 8 at 2017 4:41 PM

SPC Kwesi Morris — Tue, 08 Aug 2017 16:41:48 -0400

Way back in the 90's my roommate and I made extra cash, me shining boots, him starching and ironing BDU's. Hey it was drinking money that didn't come out my own check. Of course this only lasted while I was in the barracks.

Response by PO1 Dallas Shewmaker made Aug 10 at 2017 4:39 PM

PO1 Dallas Shewmaker — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:39:01 -0400

To be honest... I don't see a problem with it. I was always taught to have "at least one inspection ready uniform available" at all times. What that usually meant is that I had one uniform already prepped for such occasions that called for it. Naturally, you do an adequate overlook on your uniform before rolling out to formation/inspection. If you don't, then you're just plain lazy. Plus, like it was mentioned above elsewhere, I don't completely trust others with that kind of responsibility. So giving your uni a once over is required but that's just SOP. I mean, you do that for your dailies too, right? You don't roll out of your rack/bunk and into a sloppy uni and into formation? You give it a look over to make sure that you're in regs. Same goes with a prepped uniform.

Response by TSgt Andrew Harper made Aug 11 at 2017 12:45 AM

TSgt Andrew Harper — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 00:45:14 -0400

Thank you Col, I'm all about making sure I took care of MINE, and no one else. ALL military members, no matter what branch, MUST have the discipline and responsibility for the wear and tear and correct rank and fruit salad. Somebody else does it at the cleaners, say they missed a medal or added one by mistake, maybe jacked up the stripes or bars?? Ah, el shit o would hit the fan o! All my deployments, after the mission, it was find a scrub board and a bucket of water in the early days and washer and dryer later. A few airmen turned uniforms in to the Haji cleaners were either MIA or considered DRMO. Whoops! I have a alot of crap on my uniform too.

Response by MSG Jerry O'Rourke made Aug 13 at 2017 4:53 PM

MSG Jerry O'Rourke — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:53:31 -0400

Any good NCO will tell you it's one of the most important parts of being a soldier. I, as a Senior NCO, instilled pride in the wearing of the uniform. I did continuous training on how to set up your decorations and ribbons. Each year as part of the annual HR scrub and review of the automated 2-1 we held a update inspection of every soldiers uniform. The best part of this exercise was each soldier took their ribbon display apart and had to resemble their display as per AR 670-1, no google or build your rack programs. Then we would have all the squad leaders incorporate daily hip pocket training to correct the deficiencies. We also held classes on the history of the uniform, as well as awards and decorations. This build "Espirit De Corp"within the unit and mentored all the junior enlisted. Hooah!

Response by MAJ Eric Greek made Aug 14 at 2017 3:20 PM

MAJ Eric Greek — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 15:20:40 -0400

When the Army promotes based mostly on whether you have ACOM and the first sentence of your senior rater comments ... and the only other thing that matters to a board is your photo - you cannot blame people with ambition for noticing. It's not like perfect class A's have any relevance to battle or merit, but they certainly do for promotion. As busy as Soldiers are these days? Paying for non-essential services is a no brainer. You can't blame Soldiers or Officers for figuring the system out.

Response by Jeff Lofstead made Aug 14 at 2017 3:24 PM

Jeff Lofstead — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 15:24:58 -0400

Should not Happen!

Response by SPC Helen Walls McCarty made Aug 15 at 2017 2:31 PM

SPC Helen Walls McCarty — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 14:31:28 -0400

That shows that the solder is being lazy if they take their uniforms to a cleaner instead of doing it themselves

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 1:46 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Aug 2017 01:46:18 -0400

I've read about 10 responses. Each one of them is a good answer and each one of them makes a valid point. The point I get from each is it's a matter of personal pride. But that's the subjective point of view.

So, let's look at this action objectively. A Service Member (SM) takes their uniform in, along with all of the accoutrements they are authorized to wear and pays someone else to put it together. In doing so, that SM assumes a certain amount of risk. Those are, and this is not a complete list:
1) They are applied correctly
2) They are clean
3) They are in the right order (extension of #1)
4) The uniform is received back in time, and
5) The uniform itself is clean.

The action itself is not a problem. Someone point out to me where it says, in any regulation (any branch), the SM must apply the ribbons, medals, and any other fixture of the uniform (authorized) themselves. SMs help SMs all the time. Why then can't a SM pay for someone to perform the service? They are, after all, assuming the above mentioned risks. If it's wrong, it's still up to them to fix it.

Yes, it takes more time to get your uniform ready that way. But that's their choice. Isn't that why we are in the military in the first place, to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic? This includes giving people, all people, the opportunities to the right to PURSUE happiness. If this helps a SM pursue happiness, who are we to say they are wrong?

I apply my accoutrements myself. I have for as long as I have been in the military, almost 29 years. I will continue to do so. Each ribbon and badge has meaning to me.

Putting my uniform together is a personal point of pride. It helps me reaffirm my commitment to the uniform, the rights we have as members of the military, and to what wearing the military means. I have never had someone else shine my boots or iron my BDU's - even in South Korea, where a local national (LN) did it for very little money (I think it was $5/week when I was there). It was a point of pride then, and it continues to be to this day. I grew up in a military family and that pride was engrained from a young age. But... it is still my choice.

What kind of nation are we when we start to condemn someone for doing something which is within the law? What kind of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen (and Airwomen), Marines and Coast Guardsmen (and Coast Guardswomen) are we when we admonish a fellow SM for taking an alternate route to come to the same conclusion (a uniform ready for wear and/or presentation)? Are we justifying our own sense of dignity while attempting to deprive someone of their right? I don't know. For each of us will have a different answer to that question.

If I had a Soldier who did that, but the uniform was still right, would I condemn them for not putting it together themselves? No. They have the options to consult other Soldiers, NCO's, the CSM/SGM, me, Platoon Sergeant, etc., etc., etc. Why, then, would I condemn them for taking the opportunity to have someone else put those on their uniform? Soldiers help each other all the time. In the absence of that help, or even if the help is available, why can't the SM exercise their right by spending their money and assuming the risks of spending that money in having someone else assemble their uniform for them?

If the regulation doesn't condemn it, then as far as the regulations go (for the Army, AR 670-1 "Wear and Appearance of the Army Uniform" and DA Pam 670-1 "Guide to the Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia") it is authorized.

Thank you all for your service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2017 7:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:21:50 -0400

In that promotion boards hone in on a photo, almost more than the person. On my DA photo, I was in the field, told to get my photo in now & sent ASAP, when I was in Korea.Turns out that my CSM had been on an E8 selection board & informed me how it works, As hard as I tried I'm sure I missed something. But in todays Army, with all those scrap medal unit pins, crest & other useless garbage, even if you lay the coat down & get it 'just right' once a person puts the coat on something is not aligned just so. There fore once the camera goes click, it's done & over, till you get a sequence or wait till next year... The Army should take a real hard look at doing away with 'been there' buttons & pins, all information is in a persons 201 file, !

Response by COL Ardis Ferguson made Aug 17 at 2017 8:23 AM

COL Ardis Ferguson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:23:27 -0400

that is free enterprise at it's best in an increasingly competitive environment. If there wasn't a demand for the service, the supply of labor would fall off - who does it is not the issue since more simply put, it is the basic theory of economics.

Response by CW4 Robert Augur made Aug 17 at 2017 11:29 AM

CW4 Robert Augur — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:29:29 -0400

Their choice, their money. I set my own uniforms up, shined my own shoes, got what I considered a regulation haircut and went off to the photo lab to get my picture taken. Didn't hurt my career.

Response by SFC Ed C. made Aug 17 at 2017 11:59 AM

SFC Ed C. — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:59:21 -0400

Agree totally COL. I did the same as you for 26 years I served. If nothing else, our process made you aware of the regulation on how to get your uniform ready. Nothing like knowing the regs.

Response by PFC Abelino Ruiz made Aug 17 at 2017 9:27 PM

PFC Abelino Ruiz — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 21:27:23 -0400

I always did my own , took personal pride in shining my Jump Boots. Even took a hit on inspection because a 2nd Lieutenant thoughr they were coropham boots.

Response by SSG Scott McFaulds made Aug 18 at 2017 7:56 AM

SSG Scott McFaulds — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 07:56:05 -0400

It just goes to show the level of professionalism that is left in our Military. I ironed my own uniforms shined my own boots and took pride in the way "I" prepared myself each and every day proudly wearing the uniform. I went from the cotton fatigues to permanent press fatigues to the BDU's taking care to ensure I looked sharp each and every day. Is it laziness or the fact that todays uniformed service members have no respect for todays uniform. I support our military but am disappointed in todays service men and the way they display "their" uniforms in todays society.

Response by LCpl Russell Potter made Aug 18 at 2017 8:28 AM

LCpl Russell Potter — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 08:28:43 -0400

It's them Liberal's that did this to them with their stress cards .

Response by SGT Jeremy Boyd made Aug 20 at 2017 8:56 AM

SGT Jeremy Boyd — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 08:56:45 -0400

Who cares? There is way too much pressure placed on a stupid picture. If the Army spent more time worrying about the proficiency of its soldiers, and less time worrying about how pretty its soldiers look, it would probably have a better chance of retaining competent leadership.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2017 8:08 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 20:08:22 -0400

Sir,

If I may. I work in a unit that I might only ever put on my Class A uniform for a DA photo or a funeral. Other than that its dress mess (which we can all agree is about the easiest uniform in the world to set up). I have spent 21 years in the Army, the uniform has changed for me many times. From Joe to Senior NCO, and finally as a Warrant Officer. I have put in my time putting uniforms together. It's not that I lack the knowledge as to where to find the regulation. I just would rather pay some schmuck to set it up for me, than to waste my time doing it. I still spit shine my own jump boots when I have to wear class A's (though the last time that was required I can't recall). I believe that my biggest attribute is time management. As a field grade Warrant, have more shit going on with my life than to make sure my uniform is pretty. I put my time into making sure I get teams out of the door for mission. Planning and executing lethal and non lethal targeting. Doing countless hours of bull shit computer based training on SHARP, Transgender, and by god cyber awareness training. With all of that time stolen from me, I don't mind paying 20 bucks, and getting 30 minutes back, and not worried that I put my DUI 1/8th of an inch to low. While I will concur that ensuring that young Soldiers and Officers knows how to put their uniform together, I will say at some point I decided that me doing it, took a back burner. Let me ask you about the GO's you spend most of your time with. As I have had several good friends who were aide de camps, do you think CG's are putting their uniforms together? I know my buddies and the enlisted aids were doing most of that grunt work. The difference is who is getting paid to do it. This is just my two cents on the topic. I am sure 1SG Archer will think I am some shit bag, because I didn't do it myself. My attention to detail goes into operational planning where it actually matters.

Response by SGT Sherrie Fanning made Aug 20 at 2017 10:27 PM

SGT Sherrie Fanning — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 22:27:51 -0400

This isn't a big deal for me..Not setting up your own uniform doesn't necessarily mean you are a dirt bag or a slacker..This is 2017 so I believe this should be a personal choice of an individual..Just my opinion..

Response by SSgt Wright Joe made Aug 25 at 2017 6:19 PM

SSgt Wright Joe — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 18:19:07 -0400

As far as I'm concerned, the only person that should be paid to set up another person's uniform are the folks at Dover who are doing it for those who can't. Anybody else needs to get off their lazy butts, pick up whatever reg governs their uniforms (mine was AFR 35-10) and get busy.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Aug 26 at 2017 7:05 PM

LTC John Wilson — Sat, 26 Aug 2017 19:05:02 -0400

Myself, I took on the accountability of doing it myself and double checking to make sure it was right! I do not judge other service members for using some innovative twists to look their best. I always despised someone out of uniform and filthy to boot. So be thankful they did it to better themselves and for the good of the service. We are on parade 24/7 and looking good is essential to our citizens.

Response by SCPO Art Michel made Aug 30 at 2017 9:06 AM

SCPO Art Michel — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:06:51 -0400

Col Williams, SHIT HOT! (Navy term) I'm with you sir. I always did my own upkeep and dressing of all uniforms. I also find it hard to believe that the military has gone in this direction, leniency. I especially loathed the idea that the enlisted naval members (I won't call them sailors or especially shipmates) took to "polish" the warfare pins whether subsurface, surface or aviation. Nowadays, even the very senior enlisted (to include command level positions) are doing the same. Maybe the shiny, chrome looking BS makes them more important? Anyway, I say use what you learned, pass it on and enforce it. It's part of our culture.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2017 12:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:01:13 -0400

There was this person many years ago that listened to that Good Idea Fairy and said; Hey lets get rid of the black boots and lets velcro insignia and patches. That person had no clue that the uniform and boots help build and maintain discipline. Bring back the boots. Require soldiers that work in an administrative job Monday through Friday to wear a business type uniform (Class A Long or short sleeve and ensure they meet the military appearance standard. Field uniforms should be exactly that. I field uniform. By putting a Soldier in the dress/business attire you place a pride in them and the uniform. I too still do mine myself. Yes I iron mine too. If I want to look like I am wearing PJ's, I will go to bed.

Response by SGT Sherrie Fanning made Aug 30 at 2017 11:39 PM

SGT Sherrie Fanning — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:39:45 -0400

Colonel Charles Williams I'm sure you have many awards for Service to our country. Those awards I have I am very proud to have earned them.. Thanks for your service SIR...

Response by SGT Sherrie Fanning made Aug 30 at 2017 11:46 PM

SGT Sherrie Fanning — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 23:46:05 -0400

As I see the comments I feel proud I was a part of my Service for 14 Years.I truly miss the comrade we share . I miss those days.

Response by SSG Eric Morris made Sep 1 at 2017 1:32 PM

SSG Eric Morris — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 13:32:57 -0400

Add up all the time, literally minute for minute, that you spent polishing your boots. Think about it. I did 4 active and 4 reserve and I estimate a week was spent shining boots. Not 40 hours... 168 hours; from fixing "field" boots to keeping inspection boots tip top. What could you do with 168 hours of your time? Pay more attn. to your family, develop a hobby or skill, do a little more gym/run time, how about those college courses.

Which brings up the subject of the daily uniform, BDUs in my day. Did you never get your BDUs pressed and starched? There is no difference between that and what we're talking about in this post. Every commander and majority of soldiers I ever knew had this done. I spent a lot of time on my uniforms, starching and pressing. The Korean dry cleaners did it faster, cheaper and better than I ever could. All this fuss, and, the BDUs were not supposed to be starched in the first place. But COMMAND dictates this. There is no reason to split hairs and point fingers. If you look good, you look good. if you don't you don't. Show up at the right time with the right uniform and the right attitude and you'll go far.

Response by SSG David Thomas made Sep 3 at 2017 1:14 PM

SSG David Thomas — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:14:22 -0400

I personally took great pride in setting up my own uniforms. If people are too lazy or unprofessional or unknowledgeable to set up their own uniforms, it is probably representative of a how their own leaders view the subject as well. Lowering expectations and standards will create laziness and nobody will take pride in their uniforms or in their jobs anymore.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Sep 3 at 2017 3:26 PM

PO1 Robert Johnson — Sun, 03 Sep 2017 15:26:50 -0400

I always had my uniforms professionally dry cleaned or laundered as the case may have been. I had 2 cards set up, one with ribbons and one with medals that I had earned and those went on the proscribed uniform for the occasion. The Blue Jacket's Manual had all the info on which medal or ribbon went where, so I did not need someone else to do it for me. Having said that, I knew quite a number of officers and enlisted men and women who did have their uniforms set up for them. I knew one officer who appeared for an inspection where the Uniform called for Summer Dress White, (choker whites) with swords. He had the belts running between his legs. We got him straightened out so he didn't hit the parade field like that. I should acknowledge that he was a medical corps officer who had gone through the abbreviated OCS course (2 weeks?) only a couple of months before.

Response by PFC Rod Chandler made Sep 4 at 2017 3:29 PM

PFC Rod Chandler — Mon, 04 Sep 2017 15:29:04 -0400

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it Especially for someone who's done it for so many years and has exhibited the ability to do it without flaw you've paid your dues now pay someone else to do it. I was in from 90 to 93 and people were paying other people to do it then and they will be paying people to do it forever.

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Sep 8 at 2017 6:22 PM

MGySgt Jerry Suarez — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 18:22:47 -0400

Do you think generals set up their on uniforms daily??? Cmon get over the petty stuff I'm a 30yr marine corps vet and I'm as salty as they get but u know what the hardest thing to overcome is change and that's what we old dogs need to do. U have to be inspected ready how you get that way is on you

Response by Sgt Nate Troxell made Sep 8 at 2017 8:19 PM

Sgt Nate Troxell — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 20:19:26 -0400

As it was explained to me once, "you receive pay to maintain your military appearance."

Response by CW3 Matt K. made Sep 10 at 2017 12:26 PM

CW3 Matt K. — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 12:26:03 -0400

COL Williams,
you are right. What has the Army and the military come to?

As for those Soldiers coming in while you are there and seeing it first-hand, did you ever think to put your WTF thoughts into action?

You are missing training moments, especially with the ones serving. As for the spouses bringing in their husbands uniforms, something should be said to them also. You do know you will have to come up with how to handle the backlash when you give them your opinion. The backlash will undoubtedly come from the embarrassment hidden under their 'anger'.

It is the Soldiers responsibility to ensure his uniform is correct. It is the responsibility of leaders to hold Soldiers to those standards.

Do not miss the future training moments.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Sep 10 at 2017 12:40 PM

SPC Franklin McKown — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 12:40:31 -0400

Why do officers smile but enlisted look intense?

Response by SSG(P) D. Wright Downs made Sep 10 at 2017 3:30 PM

SSG(P) D. Wright Downs — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:30:25 -0400

I guess I just didn’t trust other people and did my own. Sitting on promotion boards, I could tell who put their brass on in the mirror, who probably had a spouse do it, and who never picked up the 670-1. Then there were those who didn't realize the summer and winter greens were made of different fabrics. Big time no-go on my scoring pad. Attention to detail was a biggie. Things have become so much easier for the Soldier now. We never got gas for our POV in fatigues while today Soldiers fly in utility uniforms cross country. Wow! Talk about ass-being-grass offense. And, if a person does not know the order of their awards, one should not be wearing the awards. Guess I am old fashioned. A person should have knowledge about what is going on about one's environment and the place to start in with one's self. Know the charts and begin with how it relates to you. This is how I taught my people. The charts were posted and related to all the branches, not just the Army.

Response by COL John McClellan made Sep 10 at 2017 3:41 PM

COL John McClellan — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:41:14 -0400

Right you are Chuck! I did trust others though to review my work (like a 1SG or SGM) to make sure I was squared-away. There's a leadership function in this - we leaders are supposed to know this stuff. One way a leader can continue to know "Soldier stuff" as they move up in rank, is to still do these basic tasks themselves!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2017 7:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Sep 2017 19:02:58 -0400

I think that we as soldiers should do it ourselves. I always kept mine squared away, cleaned etc.. anytime you get something new to add, add it and check everything else out. Most of the time we know when we will need them. If you always keep them square and you need them at a moments notice then you won't be going in looking like soup sandwich. I dont think it's anyone but the soldiers job to do all the work as it is attention to detail. I dont know why someone would want to have the cleaners do all the work when they should be taking major pride in what they've earned and knowing that they completed the task themselves.

Response by SP5 Fred Cosner made Sep 11 at 2017 11:57 PM

SP5 Fred Cosner — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:57:22 -0400

Old school paying is just a cheat.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2017 1:47 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:47:25 -0400

I think that many personnel who have been around for 15+yrs. have seen a drastic decline in the professionalism and competence of the NCO and Officer Corps--generally speaking.

We are failing to pass along the most basic of education to the next generation. I spoke with a Soldier (competing for the EFMB) who had never (NEVER) conducted land navigation--and was never instructed on what a pace count was. He knew how to load, fill, and check a SINCGARS (ASIPS) Radio, but didn't know how to read a map. A loss of education in the art of self preservation and survival.

There are Soldiers who can't shoot; they are afraid of the rifle, or just go through the motions. I remember a time when my Infantry Brethren (because I am a MEDIC) would take me out and show me how to conduct a proper ambush, or engage in detainee operations, cover and roll an EPW, how to clear a room, stack a door, etc. We have failed to pass along these "hands on" experiences to the next generation. We are losing the Warrior Spirit and hunger.

We have taken away Sergeant's Time Training (and for those units who still have it, use it!!). We no longer make the time to teach and mentor--now it is simply getting the job done the fastest and moving on. Losing pride in the details, and losing the ability to hone our craft.

I am not saying that this is the face of the Army, but these Soldiers are out there. When we took away the BDU, took away the black 'spit-shined' boots, and moved to a wash and wear uniform, we lost part of that self-discipline.

I remember having to wait for the yellow book so that I could take self-development courses for promotion points; spending hours reading to pass the test, now there are online classes and the answers are just as easily found--so we don't teach patience and hard work.

There are few trains of thought when it comes to this topic... And old train of thought would be to take pride in your uniform, if you don't do it, then you need to get out (...this referring to LTC Mackay's statement.) There is also the idea that there is a lack of personal responsibility when people have something done for them instead of doing it themselves.

I for one still put my uniform together myself; but I don't chastise others if they decide that it is too difficult, or not worth the time. if I could trust someone else to do it for me so I could spend more time with my family, then I would jump on it--but there is that self-pride there.

Who really cares if they do it, or have someone else do it for them? If it doesn't affect us, who are we to criticize? Just because they don't hold the same values that we do, doesn't make them wrong...

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2017 1:26 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:26:28 -0400

Well since in general the dress uniform isn't regularly used by soldiers. Getting it set correctly can be difficult. I have helped others find what they need on there show them the general placement but then show them the regs & let them do it & inspect afterwards.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2017 3:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:18:47 -0400

COL Charles Williams. Well earned crap I might add... lol

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2017 9:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Sep 2017 21:02:04 -0400

You're right the discipline level in the army is all but lost. This is just a side effect of that. Laziness is now encouraged, pride is suppressed or exterminated, and moral is at an all time low as seen in the retention rate. The army needs to quit coddling soldiers so they can instill standards again.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Sep 24 at 2017 5:33 PM

TSgt James Carson — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 17:33:53 -0400

This kind of thing has gone on for as long as I can remember being in the military. It was so funny when a person paid someone to make their uniform so neat or sharp, but put on the wrong awards and decorations, wrong rank, or in general messed up the uniform. I remember a master Sargent in my shop that had a DRESS UTILITY UNIFORM, WITH BOOTS SHINED FOR NO NOTICE WALK THROUGH INSPECTIONS. What made it so funny was, the general inspecting asked the guy if he had a job in the shop and what it was. As I said, it was funny. The General sent in a report to higher heads and had the shop reduced in personnel by two thirds. Glad the base was closed ten years later. we could no longer properly perform our mission requirements. Believe me when I say Political requirements within certain commands in the area.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Sep 24 at 2017 8:19 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 20:19:40 -0400

I am stunned by this If a soldier can not put together there own uniform how can they explain corrections to their subordinates by bringing in the drycleaner to show them No one should be promoted if they can not do simple tasks

Response by SFC William Bethea made Sep 28 at 2017 10:34 PM

SFC William Bethea — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:34:59 -0400

It is the loss of attention to detail. As a Private I hated pay day activities, cleaning the latrine, command inspections you name it. As I rose in rank I asked why we had to work so hard on the little things. The answer was that it taught you attention to detail, so you wouldn't forget the little things. That made perfect sense and I valued what it taught me. Much of that is gone from the military now. Most have no clue how to polish brass or spit shine boots, less how to pin their decorations on a uniform. Where did we go wrong that they can't do the little things?

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Sep 28 at 2017 11:02 PM

MSgt John McGowan — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 23:02:14 -0400

I went to NCO prep and NCO Academy and never hear of such a thing. One gig at the Academy.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2017 10:49 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 22:49:06 -0400

I have never been Privileged to serve in Uniform, but had I, I would 'set-up' my Uniform myself, NOT allowing a civilian to do so. I take doing so to be an Insult. At the least I would set it up & have my Sargeant check it out to ensure that I did Not embarrass myself Nor the Branch in which I was serving !!! HOOORAH !!!

PS. I did serve in AFG for 18 months as a civilian !

Response by MSgt Walter Clack made Oct 8 at 2017 8:42 PM

MSgt Walter Clack — Sun, 08 Oct 2017 20:42:40 -0400

Col Williams, was reading you comments seriously considering your thoughts up until the PS. That cracked me up so bad, had to go back and reexamine your uniform. You are correct you do have a lot of crap lol. My I interject my memories over the years of my service 1974 to 1996 and my oldest sons 1995 to present. To the best of this old-timers recollection in the 70 we had to purchase each item of our uniform separately and only outside help was having chevrons sewed on, the rest we had to mount and install. In the mid 80's you could have the ribbons mounted when purchased, yet you still had to place and secure on uniform. Not really sure why, but I never used this service. Before retiring in 1996 I heard about guys that were having all this done for them at a price. At the time I thought "Wow, that to easy! How does one learn how without actually doing." Now-a-days the members of my oldest's unit have most of this done for them. I recently observed my oldest putting his ribbons and medals on his dress uniform himself. Needless to say it helped enforce my already eminence pride in him. I guess the wheels of change will evidently roll on with or without us.
Semper Fi

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Oct 12 at 2017 11:16 AM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:16:02 -0400

I just had a lady put my uniform together for me after 22 years of doing it myself. She did a great job. I'm never putting it together again. Best $20 I spent all week.

Response by SGT Jason Ellenburg made Oct 15 at 2017 2:10 PM

SGT Jason Ellenburg — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 14:10:27 -0400

I had my uniforms cleaned, to include one set of my BDUs starched and pressed (used only when in garrison). However, when my Class A's went in, there weren't even any buttons on them. When I got them back, before I even opened my closet door, they had everything put back on them. My AG 415 shirts were the same way (one of each with the bare minimum and one fully blinged out). I also made sure all of my boots were black with one set (garrison) being glass. I cheated with a heat gun and dremmel buffer, but it was me doing it.

I knew soldiers who got their uniforms blinged out by others and it just seemed wrong to me. Attention to detail is one of the concepts that we all had beaten into us daily in training (whether BCT, ROTC, or Service Academy). To get your hardware put on by someone else or your boots polished at a PX is cheating yourself and being lazy. That laziness will only compound over time until it affects something important.

But, what do I know. I got out in '09 after my hitch was up. I went in before 9/11 and got out after the social changes began to take hold. In my time, the boots went from polish-daily black to no-need-to-polish tan, the uniforms went from camouflage to glam-cam, and BCT went from training soldiers to a whine-fest of stress cards.

Response by SSG Clayton Blackwell made Oct 15 at 2017 3:37 PM

SSG Clayton Blackwell — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:37:56 -0400

Seems lazy to me. I would think the person that would take advantage of this might be apt to cut corners in other places too and lack attention to detail. Not something I would want my soldiers or myself to get in the habit of. I always took pride in the process of setting it up and getting it right.

I see several comments about it being complicated and too much stuff on it these days. Maybe that's true, I have been out since 1998, and it seemed there were too many trinkets to be placed then, but doesn't seem like a whole lot has changed from the photos I see. I would prefer to do it myself, but at the end of the day, if it's set up right, however you got there, I guess that's the most important thing.

Response by SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz made Oct 15 at 2017 4:02 PM

SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 16:02:51 -0400

THAT IS WROG BCAUSE YOU HAVE THE KNOWLEAGE TO DO IT YOUR SELF

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2017 1:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:15:17 -0400

I think that whatever gives them an edge is fine by me. As long as my Soldiers' uniforms are square when they need to be, it doesn't bother me how they accomplish that. I pay for said service sometimes, when I don't have time to mess around with it (I also have dogs, and their fur is all over the house, so laying my coat out on the bed to set it up isn't really an option). Just my $0.02, sir.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Oct 21 at 2017 10:11 PM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Sat, 21 Oct 2017 22:11:07 -0400

Attention to detail is a good trait to instill, farming out of responsibility is a poor substitute for personal responsibility.

Response by CPL Daniel Schwinge made Oct 23 at 2017 2:28 PM

CPL Daniel Schwinge — Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:28:42 -0400

your last line says it all "PS. I have a lot of crap on my uniform..." When I was in we did not wear our class A that often. Where are the regs on how to set it up? What do I have and what order do I wear it in? What am I authorized to wear?. Unless you do this everyday, you do not remember how to do it, at least I didn't. I had to ask for help, but I never paid to have it done. If there was a way to have it done for me, you bet I would have. I was a combat medic and a operating room tech. We didn't have many chances to wear class A's.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2017 7:12 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Oct 2017 07:12:03 -0400

Great question Sir. My two cents are take pride in this profession and every service member should do it themselves to keep the regulations relevant in their memory.

Response by SFC Justin Rooks made Oct 26 at 2017 11:06 AM

SFC Justin Rooks — Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:06:59 -0400

One of my last photos in uniform. Call me old school, but I actually enjoyed the time it took to prepare my uniform regardless of whether it was for a photo, inspection, formal event, whatever. Taking that time puts on display the discipline and attention to detail you learned as a Soldier. To pay someone to prepare your uniform using the same tools you, as a Soldier, have at your disposal not only wastes time and money, but sets you up for failure because if you check it before you put it on and have to adjust it, then you wasted money. You put it on blindly without checking it and you miss something and it gets caught on inspection or by the Board, then you wasted money. Be the professional you were trained to be and prepare it yourself and get it checked by a couple Senior NCOs. You'll come out better for the experience.

Response by SGT Joe Max Jackson Jr made Nov 2 at 2017 9:44 AM

SGT Joe Max Jackson Jr — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 09:44:35 -0400

I trusted NO ONE with my class A s. PERIOD

Response by SSG Douglas Espinosa made Nov 2 at 2017 11:30 AM

SSG Douglas Espinosa — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 11:30:35 -0400

Unfortunately I have seen this too much at Fort Bragg. Soldiers went to the cleaners on Yadkin to have their stuff done, no one looked it over then were surprised when it was off and they didn't pass. I always took pride in my uniform. It was instilled in me when I was a Private, so I ensured to set the same standard with my soldiers. I always looked over their uniforms, and ensured their immediate leaders did the same.

Response by SSG Rick Cave made Nov 2 at 2017 1:26 PM

SSG Rick Cave — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 13:26:18 -0400

It's their money... Each soldier should be able to do the same thing... for free.

Response by SFC Roger Senatore made Nov 3 at 2017 3:25 PM

SFC Roger Senatore — Fri, 03 Nov 2017 15:25:26 -0400

It would seem to me that this may be a time-saving issue, or its a problem with the inspectors. As a Sr. NCO, if you come to inspect me with a ruler in your hand, you are an ass clown as far as I'm concerned. If Board members are making decisions and assessments based on tiny fractions of an inch, invisible to the naked eye, then that fact will drive soldiers, especially officers, to do anything they can to remain competitive. If you look at a soldier and can't tell his uniform is screwed up in about 3 seconds, you have a problem. If word gets out that guys are being eliminated by board members with a calipers, folks are going to try what ever they can to make sure it doesn't happen to them. Otherwise, I paid big bucks to have rank, patches, tabs, scare badges, name tapes, and US ARMY professionally sewn on BDUs because I didn't have the time or the skill to do it myself. I had uniforms professionally pressed too. Did that make me a dirt bag?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Nov 5 at 2017 6:05 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 06:05:23 -0500

I too was thinking WTF. Pride should not be is just wearing the uniform it is maintaing the uniform including setting up your Class A's.

Response by SSG Ed Rollins made Nov 5 at 2017 12:42 PM

SSG Ed Rollins — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 12:42:15 -0500

I personally would have JUMPED at the chance to have paid to have this done for me! In a freaking HEARTBEAT! Not because I am lazy, or not "Old School". I spit shined my boots and patent leathers. But because I served in the Navy, twice, The Army, twice, and the Marines. I had medals and ribbons from all three branches of service. Some transfer over, some don't, some you can wear, others you wear a different equivalent. And for some, there are just no clear answers in the rags. If there was a place I could drop off a list of the stuff I am entitled to wear, and they put it all together for me? Like I said, I would be all over that like The UN on an anti Israel Resolution.

Response by MSG Clifton Stillwell made Nov 8 at 2017 5:43 PM

MSG Clifton Stillwell — Wed, 08 Nov 2017 17:43:06 -0500

Hey SIR! How the hell you been? You are absolutely correct. Soldiers, Officers and Enlisted alike should be completing this task themselves. I hope you and your family are doing well. God bless you and yours Sir. AIRBORNE ATW!

Response by Cpl Billy Nichols made Nov 9 at 2017 6:10 PM

Cpl Billy Nichols — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 18:10:41 -0500

I’m just going to throw this out , food for thought. I’ve had the privilege of working with many of the worlds military forces and I will say with out a doubt we are by far the most proficient “overall “. But think of how good we could be if we stopped doing stupid stuff like inspections and spent the time more wisely. Much more live fire, land navigation, field craft, survival skills, bayonet training you know good old fashioned soldiering. If I hear one response saying that we already do enough of that you’re part of the problem. I mean I’m now a Leo. and the weapons and tactics instructor for a small dep. I have one nephew in 3/8 2nd mardiv. And one nephew with the 10 mountain div. and my cops last year got more live fire and cqb ( shoot house room entry’s and such ) than the two infantry men put together , but some how we have time for dog and pony show jackass pageantry shit. I will never understand it.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Nov 9 at 2017 7:24 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 19:24:41 -0500

Wow. Just wow. I guess that is why I was on a submarine. We had a saying "work smarter, not harder". Of course back then we didn't have to do all the uniform stuff to get promoted. But if somebody could make my uniform look good, hell yeah I would pay them to do it. After all, I paid a tailor to make it fit right. How many of you tailor your own uniforms? (I did ONCE. OMG what a fail that was and it was just hemming up the pants). The only part of the uniform nobody but me touched was my dolphins. Of course that came after another guy let a place put them on and they ..... GASP ... POLISHED THEM!!!!

Point being, if the uniform needs to look perfect, I would let somebody who is an expert at it do it rather than me screwing it up. I only wore dress uniforms like twice a year if that many.

Response by SFC Charles McVey Sr. made Nov 11 at 2017 9:33 PM

SFC Charles McVey Sr. — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 21:33:48 -0500

Sir: I am retired and when I get my uniform back from the cleaners, I still do all of the set up. I would feel remiss in my responsibility as a professional soldier if I thought I should pay someone to do what I should and can do for myself.

Response by SGT Steven Jones Sr. made Nov 11 at 2017 11:52 PM

SGT Steven Jones Sr. — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 23:52:58 -0500

I'm a retiree now. Have been for quite awhile. I can still set my class A's up. I was just thinking about the spec's just today. Its just a same an 0-3 paying to have it set up. Now mind you I can see it if you're on short notice find but it not. Do it your self.

Response by TSgt J.L. Brown Jr made Nov 12 at 2017 3:05 AM

TSgt J.L. Brown Jr — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:05:47 -0500

they are lazy, I did have guys in my unit in USAFE they made extra money, setting up guys uniforms, shining boots. but I think your lazy if you don't do it yourself

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 12:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 00:34:03 -0500

Sir, I’m of an era where one took pride in their uniform and it was on them to make it look good...that being said the powers that be decided that the look of a uniform was unimportant when they made everyone switch to the ACUs. Once soldiers were no longer required to shine boots and starch and press uniforms all respect for that uniform went out the window. Now as long as they are clean you’re good to go. Also, how is paying someone to put your ribbons and badges on correctly any different from the days of paying someone to starch and press your BDUs? Or sew on rank, badges, and name tapes? If a soldier wasn’t good at or didn’t know how to do these things why not pay to have help? After all this I grew up shining boots for hours and getting my uniforms pressed after I made a few sets of BDUs shiny from too much starch. I get why they do it, I don’t really agree but I get it.

Response by Sgt John Whitner made Nov 13 at 2017 7:03 AM

Sgt John Whitner — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:03:15 -0500

I only had my stripes sewed on and my class ACS cleaned by professional cleaners. Are we getting lazy?

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Nov 13 at 2017 8:02 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:02:56 -0500

I took it as a matter of personal responsibility to assure my uniforms were ready to go. If something was wrong, I could only blame myself. I was meticulous to the point of getting a tape out and measure that ribbons were perfectly aligned over the pocket button with equal distance from edge of the ribbon to edge of the pocket flap.

Response by SPC Link Land made Nov 13 at 2017 9:54 AM

SPC Link Land — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:54:42 -0500

I can see it happening for a number of reasons including a) laziness and b) desire to not screw it up. Sure you prefer to do it yourself, and if need be ask assistance of a trusted person in your chain of command, but I can also see where some might be embarrassed to ask for help. (Such as a Captain who is busy doing Captain things and new to a unit.) Still you're part of a team... a big team and there should be someone whom you should be able to rely upon to help. It might even be something that brings some team members together. As for me, I'd muddle through it... call my buddy the Supply Sergeant over to check out my ribbons and soldier on. And I am quite sure I don't have as much crap on my uniform... though I am still proud of it. (Thanks for your insights Colonel.)

Response by PO3 Bertrand Reed made Nov 15 at 2017 7:13 AM

PO3 Bertrand Reed — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 07:13:24 -0500

I can't believe this is even allowed. Setting up ones own uniform is a matter of professional pride and should be done by the individual him/her self.

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 15 at 2017 11:17 AM

SPC David Willis — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:17:37 -0500

I guess the reason I don't have a problem with it is because I've done it. Now folks can say all they want to about boot shining and pressing uniforms, and I get it its a different army than it was in the 80s and 90s, but many of those people lamenting the changes are the ones in charge now. Also op tempo is 3 or 4 times higher than it ever was pre 9/11 so of course its gonna be a different Army. Naturally when your biggest concern becomes not dying, things like shinable boots and pressed pants falls by the way side. That's not to say there aren't practical applications for the discipline that instills, but battle drills are more important than shiny boots. When I was a private and I needed to square away my uniform I asked my first line and he tossed me a uniform book. No guidance. Part of being a soldier is being resourceful and working smarter not harder. So instead of messing it up myself, I used my resources (money) and got them done correctly. Now of course if they were jacked up I cant use the fact that someone else did it as an excuse, but there's no sense shooting something 5 times when you can shoot it twice and be done with it.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2017 8:02 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 20:02:47 -0500

Agreed. Best individual to make sure you are squared away is yourself!

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Nov 21 at 2017 2:19 PM

SSG Carlos Garcia — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 14:19:38 -0500

Sir, with all do respect that a bunch of S.H.I.T. All NCO's regardless if they're senior, or junior it is their responsibility to learn and apply on how to set your awards, and decoration along with everything that goes on your Class-A uniform. If they don't then how in the hell are they're going to expect their soldiers as to learn properly in accordance with AR 670-1 Nco's are the backbone of the Army and we set the example, but it seems to me that today's NCO's are just a bunch of FUBAR.

Response by LTC Barry Hull made Nov 21 at 2017 3:44 PM

LTC Barry Hull — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:44:46 -0500

As I understand it, the 'purpose' of having a DA photo is to se that our ht./weight match with reality. Not sure that is true bout is that is the case, why not have the photo done in PTs? As it is, it is just an exercise in how to follow instructions.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Nov 21 at 2017 4:19 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:19:42 -0500

I would have never considered paying for a uniform setup for photos, etc. If I had doubts I'd ask a fellow platoon sergeant or the company 1SG. Usually, I'd check the regulations for placement of brass, ribbons, and what-not. Yours was a good question.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Nov 26 at 2017 7:44 PM

MSG Frederick Otero — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:44:53 -0500

Hate to admit it but before hanging up my uniform for the last time and having a professional photographer take my photo i ended up with two class two badges and there is no way to correct that error but i often think of just shredding the photos as i had copies made so that each child would have one after i am gone. I have made no decision as of yet and they have sat in a locked box for 25 years. I am willing to take advice on the matter from RP.

Response by PO2 Jim Suttles made Nov 27 at 2017 10:42 AM

PO2 Jim Suttles — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:42:29 -0500

When I joined the navy a couple of million years ago we were thought to shine our shoes and how to press our uniforms in my line of work now a days I wear a uniform and still press it and shine my boots public appearance. If I look good the company. I work for does too we hire vets to work for us and I had to show one how to shine his boots I guess there is no pride in apperence well what can we do bm2 Suttles usn

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 3:40 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:40:11 -0500

Sir, frankly speaking, it should not be allowed. It takes away from personal responsibility and capability. I had those measurements, placements, precedence and the like drilled into my head, the drills where we stripped and reset our uniforms has me so well at eyeballing things that when I tale my measurements and seen that I was right on the dot, or barely off, brings a great sense of pride to me. And there it is, pride, I take great pride in my ability to spot deficiencies, make corrections and wear the uniform that I set up! Soldiers who pay to have theirs done, will not experience this. For what little it may be worth, when we have our inspections, I will quiz and run through the process, step by step with my soldiers. Though it is tedious, the efforts pay off as I am now at a point where they appear information, proud and squared away.

Response by LTC Kenenth Westcott made Nov 30 at 2017 12:33 PM

LTC Kenenth Westcott — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:33:08 -0500

This was something I did up until the day I retired . Don't believe I could trust anyone else to do it.

Response by PO1 Dennis Herdina made Dec 1 at 2017 9:36 AM

PO1 Dennis Herdina — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:36:55 -0500

To PAY someone else to set up my uniform? That is seriously screwed up! I was a Generals driver in my first hitch and I had multiple uniforms to set up and maintain in addition to my regular uniforms and I did them all my self. Attention to detail is the key here. If you cant handle maintaining a proper uniform then you sure as hell cant maintain equipment or operate it properly. If you are in a position of command and cant maintain your own uniform how do you tell someone their uniform is out of regs with a straight face? And btw I spit shined my low quarters dockers and combat boots 2 or 3 times a week at a minimum. Details matter! Show some professionalism.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Dec 1 at 2017 12:59 PM

SSG Brian G. — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:59:16 -0500

I saw this when I was stationed in Germany prior to Desert Storm. I was running over the set up with a troop that had his class A's ate up when his roommate mentioned the service that was performed by a trio of NCO wives that also worked at clothing and sales. He said it was super handy as you show up with your class A's, a bag with all of your ribbons and medals and pay them $20 and come pick it up the next day or so.

I was appalled at the notion of it and mentioned it to my TOP and he blew his stack. Needless to say there was a lot of ED and GI parties for all concerned.

Response by TSgt Denise Moody made Dec 1 at 2017 1:46 PM

TSgt Denise Moody — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:46:12 -0500

You sound like this is something new. Not everyone wears Class As every day. I wore medical whites or blue, then green, then camo utility. No bling. Hell way back when I had the cleaners sew everything on my Class A jacket because I don't sew, and besides that's what the guys got to do in basic.

I went before a small board for Below the Zone promotion. I put what little I had on my Class A myself. I went before my supervisor (SSgt)and our assistant superintendent(TSgt) and superintendent (SMSgt), to make sure I had it all on correctly. When I got to the board an airman tried to get me to take my jacket off...No! They said I had to be in Class A!" So in I went, did all the right moves, answered the questions, was dismissed. When I got out the airman asked if anyone on the board had said anything about my uniform...no. She was surprised because I didn't have the collar devises on...the US in a circle. I started to panic gut she said if they hadn't called me on it right there then they didn't notice. Like the three NCOs who had given me the okay.

So do I think it's wrong or unprofessional to pay to have someone put your bling on your uniform. Hell no.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2017 9:47 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 21:47:13 -0500

It’s called Opportunity Cost.

The loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

Is your time as an O-6 worth spending on your uniform/boots (I highly doubt it)? Or is it better spent spending time with your family, friends or hobbies?

Time is a resource many overlook and for most squandered on tasks which it’s probably better to pay someone to do.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2017 11:37 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 11:37:42 -0500

Just like with everything else the ARMY is adjusting to society. Pure laziness!! I tell my battles that want to go and buy the the flatrack awards for their ASUs or what not. I tell them "To me that shows the board that you don't have the basic knowledge of simply putting your awards together."

Response by SPC Dave Loeffler made Dec 9 at 2017 3:52 AM

SPC Dave Loeffler — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 03:52:30 -0500

I would say lazy, not paying attention to detail! My brief career as a Draftee was one where we were required to, set up our own uniforms, shine our own boots and low quarters. I was and still under the impression that is what was expected

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Dec 9 at 2017 7:14 AM

MAJ Montgomery Granger — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 07:14:03 -0500

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of doing the photo in the first place? After all, the promotion board is evaluating the soldier, not the fixer. But is this like having someone do your taxes for you? If it's wrong, you still signed it. Too much like crib notes for me. Hooah!

Response by SP5 Larry Morris made Dec 9 at 2017 2:33 PM

SP5 Larry Morris — Sat, 09 Dec 2017 14:33:39 -0500

hell most of us did

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Dec 10 at 2017 9:13 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Sun, 10 Dec 2017 21:13:03 -0500

The Uniform is the Soldier respsonbilty to set up for any promotion wether it a local board or DA board him or her needs to be able look up what Regulations cover's the Wear and
Set a uniform. That's where I stand on this Issue . No one help me set of my Uniform so quit trying to baby them.
SSG Mark Franzen
USA Vet

Response by PO1 Bill Adams made Dec 18 at 2017 4:36 PM

PO1 Bill Adams — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:36:46 -0500

I was Navy.
I remember similar debate over Corfram shoes, double knit Cracker Jacks, and double knit khaki for the khaki, in the 70s and 80s.

When I was an E3, I remember E5s and E6s telling me I wasn't allowed to wear Corframs. I think they were just jealous. They were soon wearing them too.

It didn't sink The Navy.

I loved my Corframs, because they could survive in a small shipboard locker much better than spit polished shoes.

Response by SSG William Patton made Dec 18 at 2017 4:42 PM

SSG William Patton — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:42:27 -0500

I am also old school. I always broke starch myself, including ironing my fatigues and poplin shirts with plenty of starch. I sewed on all stripes (dating myself), patches and name tags on fatigues, spit shined boots and shoes and anything else that was necessary. To me, preparing my own uniforms for duty, or anything related to my tour was about being a professional soldier, and a professional soldier always relies on themselves not others to be presentable to their public.

Response by PV2 Christy Helmuth made Dec 19 at 2017 12:49 PM

PV2 Christy Helmuth — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 12:49:33 -0500

I set up my husbands dress uniform only because it was the new blue 1 and he had a short time to find the dress jacket and have it ready to go luckily he found the jacket at a surplus store i had to hem up the sleeves and hand sew on his rank, combat patch, unit patch, services strips and his combat strip then i also put on all of his ribbons, name plate, ect. Ive help him out of tight spots or last minutes changes due to him being in the reserves now and him not really ever being home unless hes not on overtime witch is far and few between. Ive put a picture in here of his dress uniform and i used the green dress uniform jacket to place on all needed items since at the time i couldn't find anything on the blue uniform and there wasnt time to have it dry cleaned and professionally stiched up i had 3 days to get it all together for him and it takes any where from a week to up to 2 weeks here for the cleaners to get all the sewing back to them. They send all sewing out and all uniforms are sent to a base to be done since thats the only way to guarantee the proper placement of all patches and strips.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2017 10:34 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:34:27 -0500

It is your responsibility to have your dress blues, class As whatever the case may be ready for presentation. And as a leader it is your responsibility to know if your uniform and others meets specs. How the uniform got there does not matter. Paying to have it done should not be thought of as a lesser method. Yes it does take time. If someone has that time they want to spend on their uniform, by all means. But if it means that time is taken away from family or personal development, PT etc., and they can afford it, pay for the service. Time especially in the armed services is valueble too. We make too many sacrifices already. Playing football with the kids is way more important than making a uniform perfect. I feel it is the same as not cutting your own hair. My personal point of view is that it matters way more how the job is done in the field than how you look in garrison anyways. And by the way, I do not wear Corframs. I like to shine my leathers. My choice.

Response by SP5 Norman McGill made Dec 30 at 2017 11:27 AM

SP5 Norman McGill — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:27:10 -0500

As I see it a man's class A uniform reflects his honor,valor,integrity and experience in the Armed Forces. When you first start off there is nothing on your uniform because you haven't done anything yet. When you finish up your uniform is the story of your military life and the longer your in the service the more decorations you will have. Personally I was taught to apply my own insignia on my uniforms and shine my own brass and polish my own shoes. Chevrons were sewn on at the tailor shop mostly because some trooper would put his on upside down by mistake. It was worth the price to have them look right. We could get gigged if any insignia was on wrong so having somebody else do it for free or for money wasn't an option at least for me. I only ever had one medal anyway and that was for Expert with a rifle and it was sterling silver too. I still have it right here in front of me. As for Colonel Williams I think he would have a valet to help with things like this. However if he paid to have his uniform set up I could understand that as he does have a load of decorations to wear, every one of which is a chapter in his obviously extensive experience in the military. You look great in your class A's sir and if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion to the Colonel, could we please refer to our decorations as 'decorations' in the future, Sir?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2018 1:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 01:33:15 -0500

There is an easy fix to this the unit level: have Soldiers bring their ASU jackets into work and have them set them up in front of you. Of course, as a SFC, I can only fix the problem for SSG and below; everyone else requires a higher level of mentorship.

My Sunday night uniform ritual dates back to high school JROTC days (insert your favorite JROTC joke here). Uniform days were on mondays, so Sunday evenings were spent ironing shirts, shining shoes, polishing brass (no StaBrite back in those days) and putting on the plethora of ribbons that I accumulated over my 4 years. We had no multi-row rack so they had to be put on a row at a time and properly aligned.

One I joined the REAL Army, those same Sunday nights were spent shining boots and pressing BDU—no cleaner-pressed uniforms here.

Today, I still iron my OCPs on Sundays. I don’t use starch; just a steam iron to knock out the wrinkles and flatten the pockets. As mentioned, they’re supposed to be wash-and-wear, but they present much better with a little TLC and with some care, they can be ironed without damage to what little Velcro remains.

I also still set up my ASUs myself. The only “cheating” I indulge in is the use of pre-assembled ribbon racks. Medals of America (forgive the plug) does great work and I use their mil-thin racks exclusively.

I wear full-size medals for formal occasions. Just for fun, I took them to get set up and some of the places and got looks like a cow looks at an oncoming train. Putting those in took some practice, but they look nice when I wear them.

Long story short: setting up your own uniform isn’t difficult, be it OCPs or ASUs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2018 6:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 18:22:52 -0500

My NG unit received our ASUs about 4 years ago. The fitting and sew on of everything was contracted though Men’s Warehouse stores in the area. Since then, I’ve been promoted and earned another service stripe. Both times, I took my uniform back to Men’s Warehouse and they made the necessary changes, costing me a couple dollars each time. It’s cost me a minimal amount of money to maintain my uniform over the years.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Jan 2 at 2018 9:50 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 09:50:46 -0500

Agreed... I felt the same when I would painstakingly put together a ribbon bar and then see it next to a store bought, superglued, laser cut, anodized ribbon bar. It's like going to a car show and seeing a guy standing next to a 56 Chevy that he's rebuilt by hand standing next to the guy who just bought a new Mustang and brought it from the showroom saying 'look what I did!".

Response by SGM Anthony Pena made Jan 4 at 2018 9:21 AM

SGM Anthony Pena — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 09:21:41 -0500

I can't see much of a difference between you paying to have someone do it and/or having the 1SG/CSM check it. Either way, your getting assistance and not being judged on your own wits. Not saying your not deserving of your accomplishments, just saying everyone has different methods to get to the same place. I guess it's time to change with the times. Can't believe we pay contractors to cut our grass and guard our gates when we have Soldiers.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jan 6 at 2018 4:34 AM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 04:34:08 -0500

No sir Col Williams, you're not just old school. You're correct. Bling on one's Class A uniform must be set up by the individual. Paying someone at the BX tailor shop/cleaners, is just plain lazy. I did the same things as you did sir. Only I didn't get promoted by all the boards I met.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Jan 8 at 2018 8:51 AM

SGT J M Porters — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 08:51:25 -0500

Guys this is personal preference. Let them screw it up one time and they will learn. If you have the ability to delegate then do so. I have never blamed a troop for finding a more effective way of completing the mission. Why not iron your own uniform? Find what works and keep it moving.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 8 at 2018 10:12 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 10:12:17 -0500

How much does it cost? Why don't service members set up their own uniforms and save the expense? One would think a professional soldier could set up their own uniform in accordance with regulations and look sharp and not have to resort to going to a shop in town to have it done by a civilian..

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2018 7:47 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 19:47:15 -0500

I have seen one company that offered this service. They used machinist calipers to set up the uniform perfectly IAW all service policies. I have mixed feelings regarding the practice. On one hand, I do agree that it is important for EVERY Soldier to be able to set up their uniform, however the off-duty expectations of Soldiers have changed over the years. Soldiers now spend as much of their personal time performing "mandatory online" training as I used to shining my boots and pressing my uniforms. Units are now being staffed at 70% instead of 90-100% of their TOE strength unless in the shoot to deploy, which translates to longer working hours to perform standard tasks such as operator and unit level maintenance. The standard duty day seems to be around 12 hours for Soldiers and 14 hours for NCOs and officers because they have to perform the ever-expanding list of administrative tasks outside of standard work hours simply to be present to provide leadership during working hours. On top of all this, a significantly higher percentage of junior Soldiers and NCOs are married with a family. This means that the average young Soldier now has family responsibilities after duty hours instead of single junior Soldiers being the norm. Finally, Soldiers are now told that the NEED college IOT advance in their career, so it is now becoming normal for Soldiers to invest significant amounts of off-duty time pursuing a college education. Given these off-duty requirements that are different from previous generations of Soldiers, I would argue that when Soldiers pay to have their uniform set-up they may simply be re-prioritizing their time instead of the common perception of being lazy.

Response by SGT Timothy Duffield made Jan 18 at 2018 12:23 PM

SGT Timothy Duffield — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:23:53 -0500

"A combat ready unit never survives inspection; an inspection ready unit never survives combat."
This isn't a matter of pride in uniform, it's a matter of not wanting to be up until "zero dark f*** that s***" in the morning making sure that a bolo badge isn't upside down or some perfect attendance ribbon isn't one millimeter off, when that time could be better spent on day to day operations.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2018 12:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:32:42 -0500

COL Charles Williams Sir, I only paid once for anyone to do anything other than sow/dry clean my clothes. That was when I first got to Bragg and got jump boots to do the initial shine of them due to OPTEMPO/moving-in and working on my PhD and not knowing when I would need them. Go figure I never ended up wearing them, but I had every intent of polishing them myself with my boot polishing kit ready to go. I take pride in setting up my own uniform and measuring and re-measuring and them putting them on and re-measuring. I can see why the businesses offer it though. It is time consuming and well if they can make money off it (just like pre-shaved and shaped berets).

Response by PFC Robert Brooks made Jan 18 at 2018 3:22 PM

PFC Robert Brooks — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:22:53 -0500

When I was in 85-89 12E/B 8th I.D. 12th Engineers Dexhiem Germany, we would have Inspection parties in the barracks. I believe this was when true bonding amongst ourselves originated. We were not allowed to have paten leather low quarters, we had to spit shine them. We could not use the coated brass, we had to brasso our own. Yeah it was a hassle, but we made the best of it and had fun doing it. We would share little techniques with each other and to me that was a big part of the brotherhood bonding. Those memories are still with me to this day. I understand that times change but traditions should stay the same. After doing all the work you were proud of what you had accomplished.

Response by Cpl D L Parker made Jan 18 at 2018 7:30 PM

Cpl D L Parker — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 19:30:39 -0500

Could this be a generational thing. A bunch of millennial who is used to the their helicopter parents doing everything for them; can't even focus on fixing their boards. You may have to test them to make them do it or make it an order not to do it.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Brady made Jan 19 at 2018 4:23 PM

SSG Jeffrey Brady — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 16:23:32 -0500

Interesting question and I have a unique perspective on this. During my career my MOS changed from 84B to 25S to 25V. Basically Signal Corps couldn't decide what to do with the "Still Documentation Specialists", depending upon where I was station my job function changed. From Feb 87-Aug 88 I was at Ft. Knox and from Aug 88-Aug 90 Berlin. Both of those assignments afforded me the opportunity to take countless DA Photos. My assignments after Berlin did not. On many occasions NCO's and Officers would come in and their uniforms would be all FUBAR. Award ribbons in wrong order or awards on wrong side of uniform. I struggled with what do I do? I'm there to take the photo that represents them in uniform and their knowledge of AR 670-1. Our studios were full of charts showing displaying the order/precedence of all awards. Unless I personally knew the individual if I saw something amiss I would politely point them to one of the charts and let it go. Only thing we would regularly do is pin/clip the back of jacket so it would not open up. Or sometimes tape the bottom front of the jacket shut. Why the 30 degree angle photo I'm not sure except to see if we were fat.

My rationale for this centered on seeing NCO's badger other soldiers at Fort Knox for not "fixing" their uniform mistakes. I was always taught it was the other way around. But what really set me off was, and this is really for those old school, the boards we used to set by everyone's feet each individual had to manually insert letters to display their, name, rank, mos, ssn, and date. One NCO, if memory serves me right was SFC/E7 stood there for about 10 minutes staring at the board. I asked him if there was an issue and he kind of gave me a dirty look then glared back at the board. I got up walked over to him and noticed that he hadn't even began to place his ssn on the board. As I walk back to my desk I said to him "that info is on you ID card".

Personally I always thought the photo played too much importance in the process. I would rather have the individual come into the studio face a video camera and do a series of stationary movements, right, left, about face. Then march toward the camera, rear march, march back etc. This way those at the board would really know if the uniform fits, from all angles, and if the individual can still do some basic marching movements.

Response by 1SG Patrick Jimosse made Jan 20 at 2018 11:32 PM

1SG Patrick Jimosse — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 23:32:28 -0500

The right way seems to be the hard way sometimes unless you were mentored by good leaders. A Soldiers lack of personal accountability can sometimes be attributable to a lack of “spit shine” in their daily routine. Wish I could come back and fire people up!

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Jan 21 at 2018 8:51 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 20:51:32 -0500

I am reminded of an incident back in '89; So what does a junior ranked Service Member do when their highers need major uniform corrections:
1. Class A Uniform still worn after its wear out date(1976 issue vs. the 1985 update)
2. Corcorans with worn heel and cracked leather between toe and heel cap.
3. Out of date PT Uniform (see: US Army PT uniform of 1976, Black and gold not the grays)
4. Mismatched service strips(added 1 over the three already on the sleeve).
Didn't understand the purpose of the Uniform Clothing Allowance; thought the Army was going to issue new or replacement uniform items.

And this was to be my NCOIC, and I hate to say it but the SM had homesteaded Ft. _____ for 13 years; I wonder sometimes who failed to educate him.

Response by Sgt William Land made Jan 23 at 2018 11:40 AM

Sgt William Land — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 11:40:43 -0500

Wow! They do that?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Jan 28 at 2018 9:41 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 21:41:14 -0500

I would say it would be more of officers who simply don't want to spend the time, (and they have more $) and the service is the same regardless of rank. Also it would demand knowing/learning details of the 670-1 for placement which is more time, when the people who provide this service , know the regs well, from doing this all day long. And as you know, looks count for a lot in the military.

Now there is this. Some people have to wear Class A's everyday (like say at the Pentagon or certain high public visibility positions(recruiter, P.R.O.'s), and need them cleaned and re-set , OFTEN. And it can take alot of time doing this particularly if you had several sets of Class A's , B's. I could see in such situations using this type of service might be warranted. And IIRC the Army even pays an extra allowance of uniform care to do so for some special duty assignments besides the authorization for multiple sets. -

Response by SN Jay Perry made Jan 29 at 2018 6:15 PM

SN Jay Perry — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:15:29 -0500

Now I know I was not carrying a lot of stuff and need to be setup, but my father (a retired O-8) sure did! He never left the house/office until he had 'inspection' from either my mom, us (we were not so good with ribbons), or his aide to make sure he was squared away. If you are not squared away enough to take care of your own uniforms then maybe you don't need all of it. As for the comment about enlisted wives or high school kids, the reason that the drycleaners hire them is that they have DONE those inspections before their service members leave home!

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jan 29 at 2018 6:18 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:18:47 -0500

Colonel Charles Williams: You look very STRACT. And, if I may say so: very handsome.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jan 29 at 2018 6:22 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:22:49 -0500

Perhaps a cardboard cut out that you could stick your head through

Response by LTC David Brown made Jan 29 at 2018 6:46 PM

LTC David Brown — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:46:16 -0500

I always set up my own uniform. The photographer was very critical and would have me make minor corrections. I remember VERY CAREFULLY carrying in my uniform.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 29 at 2018 7:19 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:19:25 -0500

Anyone else who's been to Drum immediately think of Bradleys? =o)

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Jan 29 at 2018 11:29 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:29:42 -0500

Not knowing how to set up your class A’s is akin to the inability to not breathing me thinks! Just plain lazy!! Especially with low maintenance uniforms these days!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2018 6:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 06:33:57 -0500

Great topic and I like the responses from both ends of the spectrum honestly. So here's my two cents...I have never paid to have my uniform put together. Not because of anything special, it was mainly because I'm a cheapskate lol Before I went to the SSG board, I had bought the new ASUs right when they came out. Being stationed in Hawaii at the time, uniform availability was scarce, especially since we just came back from deployment. I ended up having to not only purchase everything new, but I had to buy the officer style coat and pants, buy a conversion kit, get it altered, and buy all the fancy items. The initial purchase set me back $500, and that's just walking out the door!! After I had all the sewing and alterations done, my bank account was a bit light. There were people I could've paid, but I was done spending money, so I put things together myself. I have soldiers who paid others to put their ASUs together, and that's completely up to them. What I would do though, is bring in my uniform, take everything off, and have them take turns putting it back together per the regulation. This way, they're learning the proper way and I'm not messing with their ASUs, which would've made their already paid for setup not made in vain. Some have continued paying others, while others decided they would do so themselves.

Response by PO3 Jacob Talley made Feb 4 at 2018 1:31 PM

PO3 Jacob Talley — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 13:31:22 -0500

I would say there is nothing wrong with this for those who choose to do so. The military can be seen as a proud and prestigious organization, and it can also be seen as a job. Some folks lean more towards the job aspect of it and have less care for the historicity and tradition aspect of the profession.
There is nothing wrong with the former view point, they are after all, still serving, still doing an overall good and potentially bringing new ideas and concepts to the military when treating more like a business. The uniform set up requirements for those individuals is more a matter of "get it done" rather than something they honor and treat as a hallowed activity.
Personally, because it would take a long time for me to get it right, I would pass it off to others to do for me to make sure I got it right, did the uniform honor, and allocated my regained time to studying to make me better at my job. That was less "I'm lazy" and more knowing my weaknesses and not stubbornly committing time to something that (realistically) didn't help me in my ability to perform my job functions.

Response by CW4 Clifford Hudson made Feb 5 at 2018 8:38 AM

CW4 Clifford Hudson — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 08:38:32 -0500

It is all about leadership. When I was a young soldier my Platoon Sergeant would have Class A Training where all the soldiers had to square away their uniform (working together). Before any type of board, DA photo or any military function it was the squad leader or platoon Sergeant who would make sure everything was ok. In today's military many NCO's and Officers don't want to be bothered with this trivial stuff. As I got older and further up in rank I to reciprocated the same mentorship that I was taught. It shows you care and it also instills the military traditions. Yes it is a soldiers responsibility to know how to set up their uniforms.
One way this can be corrected for younger soldiers is to make the soldier bring their uniform in to work and have them set the uniform up. Easy fix. As for the senior NCO's and Officers having someone square away their uniform SAME ON YOU!!!

Response by SSG Thomas Barry made Feb 17 at 2018 8:06 PM

SSG Thomas Barry — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:06:12 -0500

I remember back when I had to have my pic taken for the E-7 board. EVERYONE came o my room to help and make sure I was stract. The photographer was a bud and he was instrumental in making sure how I looked since it was one of his primary duties.

Response by SSG Thomas Barry made Feb 17 at 2018 8:11 PM

SSG Thomas Barry — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:11:04 -0500

they did away with KP and hired civs to do it then the barracks got maids then you put your boots out to get shined HA what next they clean yor weapon and stand your duty? glad i retired before all that took place. not to mention stinlking spell check put a lot of book makers out of business

Response by PV2 Michael Miedzianowski made Feb 21 at 2018 4:15 PM

PV2 Michael Miedzianowski — Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:15:03 -0500

To me that is sad as it is showing laziness and maybe incapable of doing their own medals .

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 27 at 2018 10:02 PM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:02:03 -0500

That the troops feel this is necessary, makes me wonder about the inspection and promotion photo process. It shouldn't be allowed, but at the same time no service member should feel it is necessary.

40 years ago a OCD lunatic SWO became the OIC of the USMC Basic School armory in Quantico. It was a miracle if you could check your weapon back into the armory in less than four hours of cleaning. Even if it had passed the day before and all you did was check it back in after an hour of Close Order Drill. Entire TBS classes would have their PCS orders delayed 5-6 days because cleaning 20 hours a day for that time period they still couldn't get a check mark from the armory in their PCS check put sheet.

After 4 or 5 year of this nonsense, The armory had its own IG. They got raped because of the damage the ridiculous standards did to the weapons. Unfortunately that lesson was lost on most of the LT's and for years weapons were subjected to ridiculous and unnecessary maintenance that was actually damaging.

The purpose of a uniform inspection at any level, from a once over by an NCO to an IG, is to ensure that the uniform is serviceable, properly fitted, properly worn, and clean. Those standards are in fact identical. Tolerances that must be measure with anything other than the naked eye a straight edge with 1/8th inch marks is morale busting nonsense to build a resume on the troops backs. The difference between a sharp Marine and a bag of doughnuts is more than micro-millimeters.

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Feb 28 at 2018 5:27 PM

MSG Chuck Pewsey — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:27:18 -0500

I think it depends on whether the soldier wears class As all the time - the last time I had an official photo, the photographer told me about a Coast Guardsman she shot - it was only after he had transferred that he discovered one of his dodads was on upside down. Assuming the people doing the set up know what their doing it seems like a good insurance.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2018 6:01 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:01:21 -0500

I personally wouldn't do it. I always took great pride in painstakingly putting my dress uniform together... shining boots was another story, though. Lol

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 28 at 2018 8:17 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 20:17:03 -0500

Damn Sad

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2018 8:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 20:23:41 -0500

Great Sir, when a solder has pride in the appearance of his uniform, he'll take care of it better.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 1 at 2018 12:02 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 01 Mar 2018 12:02:22 -0500

Never had enough ribbons, badges, awards, etc to require professional help in setting them up!

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Mar 5 at 2018 1:16 PM

1SG Michael Bonnett — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 13:16:48 -0500

Now my two cents worth. Something always must be at the top for priorities. I do not like the whole idea of DA photos. I had a SSG that worked for me who got hit twice in the stomach by bullets. He was fully mission capable later but could not present a trim military appearance anymore. He was forced to leave the service. Skin color is evident in a DA photo. I think the only thing a DA board should see is the list of assignments, military schools or certificates, any valor awards, ratings and that's it. No names, no pictures, no race and no awards other than those awarded in combat if they are a combat MOS or in theater if they are not.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Mar 5 at 2018 4:40 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Mon, 05 Mar 2018 16:40:47 -0500

Want to see the fur fly? Start a post rumor that those who provide this service are turning over a list of customers for inclusion in the review process........See how long it takes for Kiwi to disappear from the stores.......*grin* Yes I am an ass at times!

Response by LTC Warren Silva made Mar 6 at 2018 10:26 AM

LTC Warren Silva — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 10:26:25 -0500

If you are unable to set up your own uniform how do you know if it is done right by someone else. How would it look to have an official DA photo taken with an improperly set up dress blouse?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2018 11:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 11:17:14 -0400

I have noticed that many Soldiers in the Military have become lazy. I myself don't trust anyone but myself to set my uniform up. Yes after its put together you always have your 1SG/CSM look at it to make sure it's correct. Since day one of me joining the Army back in 1998 I have always done my own boots, uniform and everything else the Army has asked me to do. I loved sitting in my barracks room at night spit shinning my boots everyday and studying for the board or just watching tv sometimes. It's changed a lot since I have been in and I know if you came in before that it has for you to. Lack of ownership and pride is what I see. Everyday I get up and put the uniform on I think of my Grandfathers that both served in WWII and my family that I support and defend.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 13 at 2018 5:23 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:23:15 -0400

Instead of having official photographs taken there should be a timed completion for setting up a uniform with the correct insignia in the correct positions. It would be much more valuable and indicative of an individuals true dedication to duty.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Mar 20 at 2018 4:23 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:23:31 -0400

It's their money. . .

Response by CPT Jeff Porterfield made Mar 24 at 2018 1:36 AM

CPT Jeff Porterfield — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 01:36:46 -0400

This may not be so prevalent for an NCO, since their re-enlistment is not based on their promotions. But in the officer corps, pass over for promotion can mean the end of their military career. This is especially difficult for a O3 eligible to O4, where the proportion of candidates to available slots is greatest, the candidate is compelled to do any and everything they can to get that very slight edge that means the difference between continuing their military career or being summarily discharged.

Response by SCPO Sam Allerton made Mar 30 at 2018 5:19 PM

SCPO Sam Allerton — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 17:19:37 -0400

Sir, WTF is an understatement. I've been wearing my uniform since 1972. I retired 16 years ago as a SCPO (Naval Air) after 30 and change. I still fit into the uniform I retired in - and I still install my own fruit cocktail and accouterments. It's a matter of pride. My uniform is a reflection of WHO I am both as a professional and as an individual. Relegating that responsibility to anyone else is unthinkable. Stay old school. It's a good thing. Hoo-yaa!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 10:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 22:23:24 -0400

Wait...what? First of all, that's part of Soldiering. Second of all, if a female paid for this service, it would be a GREAT waste of time...let me wear the wrong bra...IJS. To me, that's just laziness at it's finest. SMDH.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 3:52 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 15:52:20 -0400

Is it against regulation to have someone set up your uniform? Is there an actual AR that says you cannot pay someone else to set up your uniform???? I don’t think so... If there is please let me know. Whether you think it’s bad, good, traditional/old school doesn’t matter. What you need to focus on is the soldier. Is that soldier good at their job. Not if they pay someone to set up their uniform. Just like one LTC mentioned, “it’s capitalism.” How many wars have we fought over capitalism? Either way, judge the soldier on their work ethic, not whether or not they have someone else put together a uniform. And they wonder why retention is garbage...

Response by SrA Neil Motin made Apr 24 at 2018 10:14 AM

SrA Neil Motin — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 10:14:22 -0400

I know I'm old, but I was a photographer in the AF. One of my duties was to take official portraits of officers for their files, including promotion. This would have to be done at every rank change or medal/ribbon update. So many didn't have a clue about their uniforms. CBPO would check their uniforms, especially ribbons, but they often got it wrong too. Sometimes we'd have to take everything apart and put it back together. Heck, some times we had to cannibalize another uniform because something, like a button, wasn't correct. I wish there was a service that those officers could have paid to set up their uniforms!

Response by SGT Kevin Anderson made May 4 at 2018 8:13 PM

SGT Kevin Anderson — Fri, 04 May 2018 20:13:19 -0400

Just my two cents: 10 years in and the one ting I learned: if someone does it better let them help.

Before You criticize someone doing it for you, lookbst your dress shoes. That’s plastic shine used to be a do it yourself. It definitely isn’t anymore.

If someone believes that paying to have it done is worth the money, so be it. Old school or not, the guys by drum have been putting together uniforms since the 40s. It’s a common practice.

If you are going to criticize this guy, shine your own shoes to parade standard and see what happens. Oh... and don’t use stay bright shit anymore...

Response by CPT Daniel Helix made May 8 at 2018 12:22 AM

CPT Daniel Helix — Tue, 08 May 2018 00:22:39 -0400

Cannot believe this. I took pride in setting up my own uni. I wouldn't let someone else touch my uniform if they paid me. What happened to professional pride?

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 8 at 2018 3:55 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Tue, 08 May 2018 03:55:50 -0400

quite frankly sir - until Big Army tells the force that it is unauthorized - it doesn't concern you how the troops get there dress uniforms set up as long as it meets regulation. between deployments, training exercises, schools, and just the everyday staying late to accomplish admin tasks because of soldier issues/training opportunities during the duty day, a few $$ was a small price to pay to see my children play sports, or connect with my wife on an emotional level. Do I know how to set up the uniform - absolutely - did I have the required tools to utilize in setting up a uniform - absolutely - did I want to take 2-3 hours on a Saturday to do it - when my son has a ball game or daughter dance recitals? absolutely not

Response by SSgt Gerald Davis Jr made May 11 at 2018 8:18 PM

SSgt Gerald Davis Jr — Fri, 11 May 2018 20:18:48 -0400

The photo is supposed to show that "you" know how to prepare yourself for duty. Having someone else do it is dishonest.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2018 9:43 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 May 2018 21:43:51 -0400

Yea, why pay. That's what your wife is for!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2018 2:43 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 May 2018 02:43:12 -0400

I may be overstating it a bit, but I feel it is disgraceful. We are supposed to be professional soldiers whether full or part-time. Is it too much to ask for a soldier to have enough pride in themself and for the profession of arms to at least know (of find out) how to properly arrange and wear their uniform?

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made May 12 at 2018 10:22 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 12 May 2018 10:22:35 -0400

Sounds like a good idea.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2018 5:38 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 May 2018 17:38:22 -0400

I have heard of guys using civilians to set up their uniform and it coming back all jacked up. I've personally always taken pride in wearing my uniform and I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment once it's all squared away! I don't believe there is a regulation stating that a soldier cannot have someone else set it up, but I've always wanted to do my own. I'd like to think that I am the best man for the job when it comes to my own stuff.

Response by SGT Matthew Hughes made May 15 at 2018 10:56 AM

SGT Matthew Hughes — Tue, 15 May 2018 10:56:10 -0400

When I was in back in the '90s, we'd have an in-ranks inspection every Tuesday. The winner from each platoon got a three day pass. Every Sunday, I'd spend hours pressing my uniform by hand and spit shining my boots. Every week, some P.O.S. who'd send his uniform to the laundry and pay to have it pressed so tight that the buttons shattered and who paid a local Panamanian to shine his boots for him would win. I hated that B.S. then and this is B.S. now!

Response by MSG James Douglas made May 15 at 2018 11:31 AM

MSG James Douglas — Tue, 15 May 2018 11:31:08 -0400

Always done it myself......it was more about pride than anything else.

Response by SGT Mark Saint Cyr made May 17 at 2018 10:28 AM

SGT Mark Saint Cyr — Thu, 17 May 2018 10:28:41 -0400

Colonel, I will be honest when I say, that after having been off Active duty for a few years, I have made use of the services at times, where and when they were available. But that's ARNG, where you often didn't see your First Sergeant until you actually stood the formation, where you needed the uniform.

When I had a photo taken for permanent file in the IRR, I had to remember to take off my NG ribbons for the pic. Little things can trip you up.

I started when you did in 1980, and had I stayed active the whole time, I likely would have done the same as you. Others may have different priorities, or may be a USAR Captain, who doesn't have his unit first shirt available, and wanted to be right so the soldiers would see him as such. He still has to set the example, however he has to do it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 1:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 01:56:41 -0400

I’ve seen plenty of generals and below who have staff that do it for them. MOH reciepients have an assistant who does it for them. Hell I know plenty of officers and enlisted who don’t know which side of the uniforms some things go on. It’s a uniform I’ve worn less than 10 times since it’s exception. I think the fact people are dwelling on issues like this is a great example of how great Army leadership is at prioritizing. Your job is the wear the uniform IAW AR 670-1 and conduct yourself as appropriate in it. Shouldn’t be an issue of who stuck what where on it. I’m more concerned about the individual who earned the badges than who stuck it on his/her uniform. Plenty of folks out there who do their own uniforms to standard that can’t live up to Army Values or not touch people where they pee etc.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2018 5:38 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 May 2018 05:38:05 -0400

Sir,

Great question.

There are a lot of causation for Soldiers paying to get uniforms set up. One is the OPTEMPO. We, grey beards, cannot compare the pace we had as young Soldiers to what today’s Soldiers do. In addition, Soldiers are better paid and can afford to have this done.

You always made your own ribbon racks? I have mine made as they look far better than doing it yourself. I put my uniform together, but what is the difference of paying for a rack to be built compared to someone put the entire uniform together?

Great question to debate...thanks for doing this thread.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2018 10:04 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 May 2018 22:04:38 -0400

I disagree that you have to put your uniform together yourself "I do it myself BTW" I just don't see the problem with paying someone else to do it. The Army Regulations as a whole are not an easy read and to most people they make little to not since because some West Point Scholar decided to use big words rather then plain english that everyone could understand. Also the amount of time it takes to do it can be a major issue when you consider the fact that most soldiers don't get off until close to 1800 then still have to drive home then eat dinner. I understand the concept behind your a soldier 24/7 365 but, that however does not mean that all of a soldiers energy should be devoted to menial tasks like making sure your ribbons are exactly 1/8 of an inch above the breast pocket evenly from left to right. People have lives and familes, second jobs, sports teams, college courses, and a laundry list of other requirements that are on their plates. The army teaches us to work outside the box and get the job done paying someone else to put your uniform together is what I would call good time management. The sheer amount of things require of a soldier these days to progress among the ranks is massive. Judging people for doing things differently then how you would simply shows how narrow your view of the subject is not trying to be rude or anything but, you don't know what that Captain has on his plate. You don't know his story. You are assuming he has three or four hours of free time to set up his uniform to perfection and, is just simply being lazy when that could be far from the truth. Just a thought and I would like to end by thanking you for your service you obviously did a lot of great things for your country Sir.

Response by SGT Michael May made May 21 at 2018 11:59 AM

SGT Michael May — Mon, 21 May 2018 11:59:14 -0400

Having served in the Army, on many occasions of wearing the CLass A uniform or Dress Blues, I always set up my uniforms as well as helped others.
As a soldier we have and will be tasked with many responsibilities, from your mos specialty to performing a police call when needed. You always train three level up for everything because you may have to replace someone at any given time. The lack of discipline leads to laziness and bad soldiering which will lead to failures in the accomplishments of missions. Attention to detail teaches discipline and helps young soldiers become effective leaders. If we’re not willing to put in the work to become a leader don’t be surprised when you’re placed in the position to lead your soldiers are not willing to follow you.
Set yourself up to lead every day, read the FM manuals, know your job as well as 3 levels above yours, for you may be chosen to lead at any time.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2018 11:26 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 May 2018 11:26:41 -0400

I have always felt that the uniform does not necessarily suggest the "attention to detail" is is purported to, and this right here is why. The most rag-bag Soldier can pay someone else to ensure their uniform is correct, getting a thumbs-up from a board member", while an otherwise outstanding Officer or NCO gets a thumbs-down from a board member over some only-detectable-by-magnifying-glass detail that was overlooked. Personally, I would like to see promotion packets reflect only the merits of the applicant with no indicators of their gender, age, or race. This would require eliminating the photo altogether, among other things.

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made May 25 at 2018 8:11 PM

MSG Mark Stinson — Fri, 25 May 2018 20:11:53 -0400

I always took my uniform to the CSM, he looked up Unit awards for the 5th Group RVN. There were 5 and I only had one. He gave me tips on tapping down the pocket flaps and ironing the creases so they would be sharper. All of this was foreign in that while in the active SF and 12th Group Reserve we never needed a DA Photo. Sounds lazy to my way of thinking.

Response by SFC Marshal Gleason made May 27 at 2018 11:24 PM

SFC Marshal Gleason — Sun, 27 May 2018 23:24:22 -0400

Who cares as long as you get the job done. You said you asked 1SG Or CSM to inspect, why? Couldn’t you do it by yourself With just the reg? Asking for help or paying for help is still the same thing, not your own work. That’s why they developed leadership schools, to see you perform the task to standard. Hell, the year I was in Korea, everybody had someone taking care of everything and the 1SG made sure we paid the guy who cleaned our barracks and latrine.

Response by SFC Marshal Gleason made May 27 at 2018 11:27 PM

SFC Marshal Gleason — Sun, 27 May 2018 23:27:15 -0400

If it’s good enough for a General, then it should be good enough for Sergeants

Response by SPC Shawn Hoffmann made May 30 at 2018 2:12 PM

SPC Shawn Hoffmann — Wed, 30 May 2018 14:12:17 -0400

I personally think it started going downhill the moment where a soldier was no longer required to shine their boots. It started a sense of laziness, take a first time getting your boots and giving it the 1st polish, takes alot of time sure but it instills a sense of pride in yourself and your appearance. Now what you get your boots from the PX slap em on and walk out to formation! So we go now to the Class A uniform same thing, pick it up from the cleaners, slap it on and go to your inspection. No sense of pride or knowledge of your own appearance.

Be knowledgeable of what you wear show it with pride, use the manual to learn how to put it on and take the time to do it yourself. That's why the manuals are there!

Response by PO1 Richard Nyberg made Jun 1 at 2018 9:33 PM

PO1 Richard Nyberg — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 21:33:25 -0400

I think it's wrong, soldiers should learn how to set up their own uniforms. I remember how much work it was when I was in the Army to set up my uniform for inspections and how good it felt when you got a BZ from the commander for a job well done. If they pay someone to do it professionally it takes it away.

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Jun 2 at 2018 4:23 PM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 16:23:32 -0400

If the Soldier receives uniforms allowances yes

Response by SSgt John Massey made Jun 3 at 2018 8:23 PM

SSgt John Massey — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 20:23:19 -0400

Seriously?????

Response by LTC Tina Kopilchack made Jun 17 at 2018 1:54 PM

LTC Tina Kopilchack — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 13:54:14 -0400

Absolutely ridiculous!

Response by SPC Robert Passini made Jun 22 at 2018 1:19 PM

SPC Robert Passini — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:19:46 -0400

I'm surprised that there are so many on here who are surprised! One of the large disappointments I encountered in the Army that led to my decision not to re-enlist and to finish out my initial enlistment and leave was being surrounded by NCO's who were completely uninterested in doing their job and completely consumed with getting promoted. As a lower enlisted I worked my job without supervision because my NCO's were at practice boards or taking tests or getting their photo taken or getting their uniform done or studying for the board - ad-naseum. They had no idea what was going on in our shop and didn't care. As far as they were concerned they had "done their job" by delegating it to someone else. I'm not saying they are all this way, but the majority of mine were. I worked in S-3 battalion HQ and worked with some terrific officers who were more mentors to me than any of my NCO's. I also worked with a couple CSM's who were pretty good Joes, but they didn't seem concerned about the total absence of their NCO's. So, I guess what I'm saying is, it doesn't surprise me and I think it has been going on for a long time. I don't like it, because I'm pretty sure I worked with some E-6's and E-7's who couldn't have put their uniform together themselves to save their life. But that didn't stop them from becoming E-6's and E-7's.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made Jun 27 at 2018 4:05 PM

PO2 Louis Fattrusso — Wed, 27 Jun 2018 16:05:04 -0400

If you can do it yourself that’s ok I couldn’t so I had it done professionally.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2018 12:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 12:44:38 -0400

I started paying to have mine done as a PVT and as a SFC I still pay. I pay close attention to my measurments, pay the extra attention to clean the cracks of my shiny items with a pair of clean white gloves in. I pay close attention to replace any dirty ribbons. I may no pay monetarily but I pay with time and effort, but I get paid pride in return.

Response by PO1 Michael Turnbeaugh made Jul 8 at 2018 9:41 PM

PO1 Michael Turnbeaugh — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 21:41:08 -0400

I've always felt the Army has too much junk in their uniforms. I would watch my friend in high school spend well over an hour shining the gedunk on his uniform for the early uniform day. This was further validated when I would watch my son (3/7 Cav) spend 2-3 hours getting ready for an inspection. All of this was in contrast to my time in the Navy where I wore a dress uniform every day for three years. I was a Vietnam-era submarine sailor who also served on ballistic missile submarines so I had my fair share of bling. It took me all of about 5 minutes to get ready each day and on several instances I had an inspection that day.

That being said, with the amount of time it takes to set up an Army uniform, and the rarity with which it is worn, I don't blame anyone for having someone else perform a task that rates right up there with sweeping a dirt floor.

Response by CPT Ronald Scherick made Jul 13 at 2018 6:40 PM

CPT Ronald Scherick — Fri, 13 Jul 2018 18:40:01 -0400

O w

I tend to agree with you that card of of one's uniform is a personal responsibility every soldier should be capable of fulfilling especially after completing basic training. Where I take exception to you statement is where you call your awards crap. I am sure you earned every one of them and are proud of you accomplishment.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2018 7:52 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jul 2018 19:52:43 -0400

The photo is irrelevant to the actual maintenance of a military uniform; though military have many benefits, it’s not unreasonable to pay for photography services rather than for the tax payer. DA inspections I would agree that their should be a given allowance, but then again this expense maybe allowed as either a write off or be used as a deduction on taxes. Talk to an accountant how to amortize these expenses.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jul 16 at 2018 12:26 AM

SSG Harry Herres — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 00:26:57 -0400

Are you kidding either someone has too much money or regulations have over taken reality. What happened to intelligent? Sorry people no one thinks any more. It's become a guessing game not this is the way it is. No one commands it's lets be nice

Response by SSG Lenzie Bailey made Jul 16 at 2018 3:49 PM

SSG Lenzie Bailey — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 15:49:30 -0400

I was amazed that my fellow soldiers use to pay for their boots to be shined. I took pride in doing that myself!

Response by SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim made Jul 17 at 2018 12:04 AM

SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:04:48 -0400

These gentlemen have more mee-dals than a Russian at a May Day Parade in Red Square. I'd go to the Green Shack and pay to have such dressed-out in order to spare time for useful missions.

[login to see]

7:21 PM (22 hours ago)

I work with individuals that have Medicare Part A and B. There are different plans available to individuals that have Medicare A and B that are at no cost. If someone has Medicare A and B as well as Medicaid there is $3,250.00 a year in Dental, $200.00 towards glasses every2 years, $1,750.00 towards hearing aids and $800.00 towards over the counter supplies at no cost. My direct number is [login to see] is there a good time and number I can reach you? Again the plans I work with are at no cost to you there are extra benefits.

Thanks,

Randy Montgomery

re: Civilian infiltration Force Multiplier asset as there is NO/NONE/ZERO law against doing good:

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Jul 17 at 2018 12:26 AM

Sgt Erle Mutz — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:26:58 -0400

That's disgraceful. If I couldn't learn how my uniform is supposed to look (at all times) - "I would feel" undeserving of that uniform! Plain and simple.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2018 10:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:43:46 -0400

Seems like military personnel are expected to be extremely spoiled to have everything paid for them; they earn a salary and can pay their expenses as incurred.

Response by LCpl Gary Gibson made Jul 29 at 2018 2:52 PM

LCpl Gary Gibson — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 14:52:30 -0400

This says lack of professionalism

Response by SFC Laurence Mullins made Aug 4 at 2018 7:01 PM

SFC Laurence Mullins — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 19:01:20 -0400

I enlisted in 1984, and retired in 2005, and at no time did i ever even think of paying someone to take care of personal responsibility, my Uniform! I went through several Boards, and DA Photos, and all I ever had someone do was to verify that it was correct. Anyone that would pay to have their Uniform set up lacks self-discipline, moral courage and personal responsibility. I couldn't expect anyone who would do this, in good conscience, accept a promotion or other reward for plagiarism of the system...

Response by SGT Spencer Sholly made Aug 8 at 2018 1:57 PM

SGT Spencer Sholly — Wed, 08 Aug 2018 13:57:16 -0400

I always needed help setting up the ribbons properly. Due to color blindness, some of the ribbons looked the same, or different than they were. I don't know if I would pay to have it set up. I usually got help from a pier or leader when needed.

Response by COL John Hudson made Aug 27 at 2018 6:10 PM

COL John Hudson — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:10:56 -0400

A bit of water simmering here, but not much. Consider: I married the military, my wife did not. I never asked her to have anything to do with my uniforms, preferring to do it myself. I am a well-organized individual and have no problem with my ribbons/devices/medals, uniform ironing, boots, shoes, etc. However, I fully understand that not everyone is, or wants to be, as organized as I am, or others like me. So - they've found an outlet that provides a service to them for a small fee. How can that be an issue? The requirement is to show up (enter function here) in the correct uniform. No one there knows if the soldier did his/her own or had someone do it for them (unless, as in the question example above - at a public place). I have no issue with this. If an SME at the laundry or elsewhere can do it - more power to them. I was Inspector General to the 1st Cav during the Balkan Conflict and was permitted my own Cavalry Hat. I knew zero about the proper blocking, but was informed a Sergeant was excellent at it for $25. I leaped to have it done. The $$ was totally irrelevant; the fact I showed up in front of the Ambassador, our Two Star, BG, CSM, and about 25 Joint National players wearing the proper uniform and hat was. Here's another example: I was aware the armorer for one unit I belonged to had a new family and was struggling. After range fire, I advised him I was late for a very important meeting and would he consider cleaning my weapon for a fee? He readily agreed and I offered far more than he expected. Word got around, and he was able to offer such service to
others; a huge assistance to his financial problems. Lazy - not on your life, I've always cleaned my own weapon. But soldiers helping other soldiers is what this life is about and many such examples are out there.

Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2018 10:32 PM

BG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 22:32:17 -0400

I see nothing wrong with it, if that's what a service member wants to do. It's a matter of choice.

BG Wallace H. Carroll, Sr
DCMR, (Retired)

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Sep 7 at 2018 4:56 AM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:56:53 -0400

Wow. Just wow. Reading through how "unprofessional" it is having somebody who is professional set up your uniform is sad. Let me tell you how this happens. A young, just out of boot camp, kid proudly puts his/her uniform together. Not much to it at that time in the career. Then some jack ass senior enlisted or officer points out that there is a thread out of place. Just to humiliate the kid. Just to make sure the kid is put in their place. Think it doesn't happen? How about haircuts? Shouldn't you be doing your own haircut? Why do you trust THAT to a pro but not your uniform? Do you sew your own insignias etc on?

I am always slack jawed when I watch the enlisted go to their promotion boards or whatever it is these days. Rulers are used. Creases are checked for the proper amount. You know what? That is BS. Pure and simple. If you are judging a person on their uniform for promotion then damn straight they should get a pro to put it together and make sure it is "perfect".

Get off the high horses. Unless the uniform discrepancy is really really bad, just gently correct them. Don't use their uniform to help decide on promotions. At least not at a board. Go on day to day appearance. Are they constantly out of regs? Do they need reminding to get a haircut? Shave? Shine?

When it came to inspections I wanted to look my best. Haircut the day before. Get my uniform from the dry cleaner the night before with all the stuff in the right place. Yeh. I looked gooood. For 1 inspection. For the few seconds that the Commanding Officer looked at me.
Oh and we wore coraframs (or whatever they were called).

For day to day, yeh, I did it myself.

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Sep 8 at 2018 3:52 PM

SPC Phil Norton — Sat, 08 Sep 2018 15:52:46 -0400

SEtting up Class A's was always a pain in the ass. I did this countless times for inspections and boards. Looking back all I can say is"These soldiers paying are missing out on memories." Each measurement placement and double checking of medals badges that you earned. Thats pride commitment and rememberance of those who wore the uniform and achieved the medals before you. I guess todays soldier is on the millennial fast track of taking the easy way out. If you are not challenging yourself in the military then you are just a stagnant soldier at best.

P.s. I spent my hard earned money on beer and my bud Jimmy Beam.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2018 9:30 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:30:33 -0400

Yes Sir, that is totally unsat! The pride of being a soldier is directly reflected in your uniform...and the ability to put you uniform together is a skill that should be mastered by all soldiers regardless of rank. This last generation of soldiers has gotten complacent with uniform appearance and upkeep...they don't have to iron anything, they don't have to shine anything, and all the insignia is available in sta-bright? Sad state of affairs, and sometimes when I'm shopping at the commissary and I see NCO's and soldiers in their uniform I feel ashamed and embarrassed...we can do better than that! I can only imagine what my Ranger BN CSM from 1981 would say if he saw a soldier of today! We were not allowed to go beyond the fence without a high and tight haircut and Spit and Starch, and god beware if you were caught otherwise! Great post Sir! Sad day for our Army.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Sep 16 at 2018 9:43 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:43:49 -0400

I have a Problem with this but am not surprised about it, So much has changed and not for the better and Folks wonder why the new MODERN MILITARY has so many problems these days. JSMFH

Response by TSgt James Potter made Oct 7 at 2018 11:25 AM

TSgt James Potter — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 11:25:57 -0400

I like bling on the uniform. It show where a persons career has taken them.

Response by LTC Stephan Porter made Oct 7 at 2018 12:31 PM

LTC Stephan Porter — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 12:31:21 -0400

Interesting comments and arguments. You should be able to do it for sure. However, this is likely no different than paying someone to polish boots, or buying commercially produced thin award racks.

Response by LCDR Robert S. made Oct 14 at 2018 9:57 PM

LCDR Robert S. — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 21:57:02 -0400

I have no problem with this at all. The personal responsibility is in making sure it's done right, no matter whether you do it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Did you sew every patch on every uniform you ever wore, or did you sometimes farm out the name tapes or something else to someone else? This is no different than giving your BDUs and a set of name tapes to the cleaners and paying for them to sew them on for you. Whenever I did that, or got my medals professionally mounted, I had to check their work, because if they got it wrong, it was *me* who was going to look bad and maybe get chewed out. It's the same for these guys. Sure, they could spend an hour measuring, positioning, remeasuring and repositioning everything on their uniform, or they could spend some money and have someone else do all that work and five minutes checking their work afterwards.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Oct 15 at 2018 9:05 AM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:05:20 -0400

Wearing and caring for a uniform is part of the pride of being in a branch of the military. I didn't want to just wear a 'suit'. But then again, we've set aside the other things that warriors did for themselves...anodized brass took the place of breaking down our brass and hand polishing it....as we did for dress shoes, thanks to Corfam...dress uniform cover is already shined, permanent press took the place of ironing. I remember the lousy reasoning ... 'these things take the place of real training'....BS...It's laziness. The difference is that instead of polishing shoes you, ironing, or busting brass, you play video games.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2018 2:44 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 14:44:18 -0400

WHy pay for it when you can buy a book that come with a ruler and make the job easy?

Response by CPL Any Jim made Oct 20 at 2018 10:14 PM

CPL Any Jim — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 22:14:57 -0400

Why pay when you can have csm do it for you ?

Response by SPC James Roberts made Oct 21 at 2018 10:48 AM

SPC James Roberts — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 10:48:33 -0400

Interesting, the circumstances of which are not known, yet judgment is passed. Consider the following scenario in which I am personally familiar - Class A's I setup and LEFT in Darmstadt Germany for a forward deployment where Class A's were "offlimits"...When we returned to Darmstadt, after the deployment, we learned that the storage facility storing all of our gear we left behind was flooded, and destroyed all of our things. We were given 24 hours with which to take a check for lost items, cash it, and replace the uniforms for a Brigade A Class formation - this literally affected 95% of the brigade, and roughly 95% of those folks were all in the same boat, neither having a uniform to setup themselves, or the time to accomplish all of the tasks prior to the formation. We paid several local cleaners to setup our uniforms, while we were hard at work squaring up the facility that had been flooded, removing the debris, and doing other work. Let's not say that soldiers today lack any attention to detail, or pass judgment on the circumstances that may have required them to use a service to setup the uniform. This is just splitting hairs - we supposed to be on the same team!

Response by MAJ Bruce Davie made Oct 21 at 2018 11:52 AM

MAJ Bruce Davie — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:52:20 -0400

It’s a source of pride to personally set up all of my uniforms. It’s been done as an E1-E7 & O1-O4. No one touches my uniform, except me.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Oct 22 at 2018 9:19 AM

SrA James Cannon — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 09:19:35 -0400

This is very common in the Air Force. Many folks have promotion photos done this way and done professionally by an outside photographer at the service members expense. From what I've seen, those doing this do seem to have an increased percentage of promotions.

Response by SGT Kurt Lembcke made Oct 22 at 2018 8:56 PM

SGT Kurt Lembcke — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 20:56:10 -0400

Thank you for respecting your NCOs by asking them to check your uniform & having the dignity to set it up yourself. I did the same asking my contemporaries to check mine after setting it up myself.

Response by MAJ Ramon Claudio made Oct 23 at 2018 11:29 AM

MAJ Ramon Claudio — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:29:42 -0400

I would take my Class A to a Warrant in S1 who his stuff better than I could ever know.
My job was to earn them, not necessarily know how to show them off. I enlisted in ‘69 and became an officer in ‘75 so I too am old school but I rather leave the display to the experts.

Response by SSG Robert Spear made Oct 23 at 2018 12:07 PM

SSG Robert Spear — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:07:16 -0400

It's interesting to me that senior NCOs and Officers can't understand why a service like this would be taken advantage of. With all of he arbitrary taskers and late nights for no good reason, it's a no brainier. Here's an idea. Stop wasting your Soldiers time on completing compulsory training for the 5th time this year, and give them some time to work on these things.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 12:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:24:01 -0400

I personally take no issue with it. I was originally issued an ASU jacket with a mean downward curve on the pocket flap. No amount of tailoring could correct the issue. After hours spent with many NCO’s up to and including my 1SG, who uttered, “WTF is wrong with your jacket dude?” It was recommended I have the uniform professionally set up. I have since bought a new uniform, and anytime it’s cleaned and pressed (after each wear) I have it professionally set up, simplifies the overly complex world the Army has become. I ensure my Soldiers are able to satisfactorily set their A’s by hand, before I tell them about the shops that do setup. You’re welcome to agree or disagree, I’m a fan of not working any harder than necessary to achieve the same outcome. Smarter not harder is a philosophy I have taken to heart.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 1:05 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 13:05:44 -0400

The short answer is that they just don’t care.

I am an E8 with 2 skill badges, 11 medals, and 7 ribbons. I often think of E2 me, how little I had and what my goals and expectations were and I think in awe of the career that I was blessed enough to have. That makes building my class A’s, my mess uni, or even my BDUs, ABUs, ACUs, a labor of love. A sign of respect to the service and a thank you for the stars aligning so that I got to where I am.

That being said, I would happily charge to set up someone else for their official photos. I know AR 670-1 and AFI 36-2903 cold and could bone up on the Naval Services. It would be fun and I would happily take their money

Response by SFC James Shofner made Oct 23 at 2018 2:57 PM

SFC James Shofner — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 14:57:24 -0400

Never paid anyone to do mine.
AR670-1 open one the table, 6" machinist's ruler, totally by the book reviewed by my 1SG before going for the photo. As it should be done.
J.M. Shofner
SFC, USA, Retired

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Oct 23 at 2018 3:07 PM

1SG John Highfill — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:07:25 -0400

Cant imagine a Soldier not knowing how to but his bling on

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 3:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 15:42:56 -0400

I’ve done it and I’m not ashamed of it. Setting up the uniform is time consuming and tedious. For me time is at a premium. Between work, after hours conference calls, school, and just the rigors of trying to raise my family I don’t have much. In my opinion if you have a problem with me spending a little bit of money to save some time, the problem is with you.

Response by SPC Phillip Vossler made Oct 23 at 2018 4:46 PM

SPC Phillip Vossler — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 16:46:38 -0400

Ive always heard it said, if your not cheating, then your not trying, if you get caught, your not trying hard enough. I was a Spc, i was never in a position to have to worry about this to be honest. Weren't we taught since basic, work smarter not harder? You cant have it both ways

Response by SGT Mike Bohan made Oct 23 at 2018 5:25 PM

SGT Mike Bohan — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:25:16 -0400

My squad leader never budged on standards...we starched and pressed uniforms well into my own run as a NCO which was late 2011...I even made it mandatory to use boot blousers as I always thought tucking in your boots looked ridiculous. Standards reflect the generation I guess

Response by SSG Timothy Stevenson made Oct 23 at 2018 5:44 PM

SSG Timothy Stevenson — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:44:37 -0400

Always did my own and helped anyone, offices as well as enlisted when they needed it. I never wanted to be asked a question about my uniform I couldn’t answer myself. I had my fair share of crap on it as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 5:45 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:45:33 -0400

I set my own up, but if someone wants to pay for it to be done then by all means go ahead. If they go to work and it's jacked up and they get called out, the corrective training is fix your shit. If you don't know how, well you're going to learn today.

Response by MSgt Chad Shuherk made Oct 23 at 2018 6:19 PM

MSgt Chad Shuherk — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 18:19:52 -0400

Here’s my 2 cents. I’ve been retired for 12 years, but even then I had my ribbon rack made for me instead of trying to put all the oak leafs and stars on wrong and off center. Most is not all of us have our uniforms hemed professionally and name tape and rank sewed on professionally. So what is the big deal with having someone set the rest up nicely for us?

Response by SFC Rodolfo Maldonado made Oct 23 at 2018 7:14 PM

SFC Rodolfo Maldonado — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:14:46 -0400

I guess these individuals don’t have self pride

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Oct 23 at 2018 7:21 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:21:46 -0400

One can purchase a board with ribbons already mounted.

Response by MSgt R Roberts made Oct 23 at 2018 7:31 PM

MSgt R Roberts — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 19:31:08 -0400

Personally you hit it on the head with the old school comment. Did my own through my career, but times they be a changin. I dont want to think the personnel are lacking in initiative or any other trait, but it does make a person wonder. It could be they dont have the time with so much put upon them in todays mil, but its still nice to see some of my young troops take the time out to do it themselves and take a bit more pride when they put their uniform on. Heres to Old School!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2018 9:32 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 21:32:36 -0400

Just had a board myself for the navy. Took my uniform and had it dry cleaned, because well, the blues can not just be washed. Never trusted the dry cleaners when it come to creases as navy creases are not a normal thing. Yet they still manage to screw it up. Even after trying to fix it, you should still see the bad crease, though not as easily. I have a pair of corframs for parades and ceremonies, but for my board, I spit shine my issued black leather myself. If you take the time to put in the effort, those giving the inspection will see it

Response by SSG Al V made Oct 23 at 2018 9:39 PM

SSG Al V — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 21:39:07 -0400

Almost every platoon sergeant and first sergeant that I served under since 91' suggested and preferred paid for placement over diy for boards and day photos. I suggested it for my Soldiers. Someone who does uniforms every day for 30 or more years will invariably do a better job than a soldier that wears that uniform maybe twice a year. Not everyone has the luxury of being in a pogue unit that has nothing better to do than continuous inspections.

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Oct 24 at 2018 12:24 AM

SFC Tracy Scott — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 00:24:16 -0400

Setting the Class A Uniform.
I have always had my class A uniform dry cleaned pressed, bagged and hung on a wooden hanger.
I also believe in setting up my own uniforms and having another Sir NCO check to ensure they were in compliance.
I also believed in pressing my own uniforms and took great pride in spit shining my jump boots, there is a great deal to be said for a person that is squared away from head to toe each and every day.

As for having your Class A so-called professionally set up for your DA photo, inspection or other related events is not wrong per say, but is it ethical? Where we are as a command staff and senior NCO's with the expectation of those within our command to perform this task to specifications and yet here we are as Officers and NCOs holding people accountable for something we're not performing ourselves.

One could say it's not wrong (per-say) but is it ethical? Where we are as a command staff and senior NCO's with the expectation of those within our command to perform this task to specifications and yet, we as Officers and NCOs have not held ourselves to the same standards and expectations that we are expecting our soldiers to adhere to and be accountable for.

The application of related expectation does not have a pinned rank, it is the expectation of all, from top to bottom.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Oct 24 at 2018 1:26 AM

SGT Gary Stemen — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:26:48 -0400

Class A is one thing.... Dress is another... any dress that misrepresents his service should be shot!

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Oct 24 at 2018 1:30 AM

SGT Gary Stemen — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 01:30:25 -0400

I don't have a lot of shit on my uniform, but I am proud of what I have...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 2:31 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 02:31:05 -0400

With the utmost respect, the Army has outgrown you naysayers. No regulation states who must prepare the uniform, only what it must look like. A bunch of “back in my day”. Oh, and now CSM’s worry about more salient things than the grass.

Response by SSgt Michael Kotz made Oct 24 at 2018 3:28 AM

SSgt Michael Kotz — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:28:39 -0400

I must agree with the Col. I always did my own class A’s, spit shined my own boots, ironed my own fatigues/ BDU’s (to include starching back in the cotton days. Was always known to be sharp as possible. I took pride in assembling my own ribbons. Gives you more pride in your uniform that when you do it yourself! Plus you stay current on the reg’s that way! Go figure!!

Response by MSG Mark Stinson made Oct 24 at 2018 3:37 AM

MSG Mark Stinson — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 03:37:38 -0400

Never, never, never. As posted before I would take my uniform to the CSM for a final check. He also pointed out that I was missing four unit awards from my time with the 5th Group in Vietnam and showed me the page in the Reg that covered unit awards. He also pointed out prior holes made by the pins from when I moved items. He told me to have the uniform dry cleaned to eliminate the holes. I must add another funny moment. I and another E-7 showed up for our DA Photo and a 2LT. The other E-7, a Nammer with the 101st with six rows of ribbons and I with the same plus four unit awards, VN Jump Wings, CIB and jump wings. I felt bad for the LT and his two ribbons. When the photographer came out and said “who’s next” the other E-7 and I pointed to the LT out of respect for his rank, even though we all arrived at the same time. The LT was like uhhhh no you guys deserve to go first. The photo was taken after I returned from the Nam.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 7:45 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 07:45:34 -0400

I’ve been in for 21 years, gone through several uniform changes (green class A to ASU. BDU to UCP to OCP) and I have cared for and set up my own uniforms during my entire tenure.
My wife has ironed my white ASU long sleeve shirt one time and that was only because I was fighting with the dog and was pressed for time that day.
It disgusts me to think that anyone in the military would be so lazy and careless to have someone else set up their uniform. It speaks volumes to how little they give a shit.
I hope I never catch any of my troops doing this. I will find all kinds of creative ways (within regulation of course) to make their life miserable.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 8:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:10:39 -0400

I would have used this service if it had existed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 8:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:56:44 -0400

Ive only been in for 12 years and i still do mine. I feel a since on honor when taking care of my uniforms. I feel that is whatnis wrong in the ranks is a lack of honor and pride.

Response by SPC William Wells made Oct 24 at 2018 9:32 AM

SPC William Wells — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:32:16 -0400

It's not good, it's another example of our military getting soft.

Response by CPL Owen Van Vranken made Oct 24 at 2018 9:40 AM

CPL Owen Van Vranken — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 09:40:20 -0400

Looking good and standing tallColonel Sir! Sp4 Nam Vet

Response by SPC David S. made Oct 24 at 2018 12:39 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:39:55 -0400

I did have seams sown in on a couple pairs of BDU's back in the forrest green days when I was working HQ at Camp Shelby - lot of brass always around but always set up my class A's and shined my boots. This was something I learned in watching my father set up his uniform over the years. I did learn some tricks on how to make it all look good as well the proper placement/order. This approach of paying seems to me like a lack of pride. What's next a chambermaid getting you dressed and checking your gig line?

Response by SFC Peter Mans made Oct 24 at 2018 2:12 PM

SFC Peter Mans — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 14:12:18 -0400

Everyone looks for the leg up.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 8:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 20:44:48 -0400

Sir,

I have been serving since 1988. I wouldn't dare let anyone touch my uniform to set it up except for me. I go through the process every time and remember those Soldiers I have battled with, partied with, helped through heartache and turmoil, and who have helped me through the same while setting up my uniform. It, for me, is a ritual and a right of passage.

In my mind, if I asked someone else to set it up it is almost as bad as if I asked someone else to be with my wife so that we could have (another) child. Unfathomable.

I take pride in my service, my awards, but most of all what wearing the uniform means to me.

Thank you for your service.

Response by Bill Lee made Oct 24 at 2018 8:51 PM

Bill Lee — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 20:51:42 -0400

This goes back a few, but I spit-shined my boots, pressed /ironed my BDU’s and set up my own uniforms. I did dry clean my Class A’s, have them press my Class B shirt (never could get the seams straight). It was worth the $2.50 to have it done.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 11:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 23:48:57 -0400

I can understand the thought process. There is a lot of pride in setting up, sewing, cleaning, and maintaining ones own uniforms. But the cost of doing it your self( financial and time) is a burden when compared to the low cost of added it to your dry cleaning bill. The high school kid/military spouse whose setting up your unform has also probably set up 40 more uniforms this week. They know exactly how to make it perfect.

Response by LTC David Updegraff made Oct 25 at 2018 6:39 AM

LTC David Updegraff — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 06:39:07 -0400

I have sat on promotion board where board members whip out magnifying glasses to check uniforms for any possible flaws - ribbons not authorized, out of order, insignia misplaced, etc. If found, points were deducted. In that sort of atmosphere, I can understand people paying for immaculate placement for photos. A single point could make a difference between promotion and pass over. This type nonsense is why I have always been an advocate for direct supervisory promotion decisions within certain administrative guidelines.

Response by SPC Patrick Crum made Oct 25 at 2018 11:38 AM

SPC Patrick Crum — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 11:38:45 -0400

I was in the black boot army 2/504th PIR, from 88-92... I always took care of my own stuff, but there were also others that would pay other troopers to set up their class A, shine boots, even clean their room... i had too much pride for this, but i did appear to be one of the few folks in the platoon that could tie a tie....so every inspection, there would be a line out my door... the funny about having someone else take care of your responsibility, is if it is wrong, the responsibility falls on the soldier wearing it... case in point, one slacker paid another to set up his uniform. The troop setting it up, intentionally put the awards on out of order as a joke (it's what grunts do when bored). So when pfc slacker got gigged, he had two choices: admit that he paid someone, or take the heat for not setting it up right himself... good times...

Response by Cecelia Brewer made Oct 25 at 2018 12:11 PM

Cecelia Brewer — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:11:52 -0400

Same with my Husband, he even startched and itonedgis fatigues

Response by SGT Dustin Gray made Oct 25 at 2018 12:20 PM

SGT Dustin Gray — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:20:37 -0400

Sir, what you are seeing is the laziness OP f pur Soldiers today, but also the failures of leadership as those very same lazy-ass Soldiers become even lazier Sergeants. And yes I say Sergeants, not NCOs.
When it came to my uniforms I always grabbed one of those books with the included special plastic ruler and did it so my Soldiers could see how it should be done. I took the to the rack builder website so that they could see how to put their ribbon racks in order of precedence. And then I'd observe them doing theirs. When it came to my female Soldiers' uniforms I'd ask a female NCO to come in and assist.
I attribute this to the fact that I had good leaders at my first duty station that taught me these things about being a leader. Without them I probably wouldn't have lasted as long as I did.

Response by SSG Jack Lewis made Oct 25 at 2018 12:25 PM

SSG Jack Lewis — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 12:25:55 -0400

I always set up my own. That being said, as a retread SSG I was once fortunate enough to be in D.C. for an event at the same time that an old college buddy who'd gone on to become a Lieutenant Colonel was in town for a conference. We were both going to be in dress greens. Mine were already set up from a previous unit Christmas formal.

He hadn't worn his in a while, and was fuzzy on the details of spacing, etc.

Did I help him set up his blouse? Damn right I did. Nothing wrong with a buddy check.

A guy can be thoroughly competent at his actual job and not be strac in uniform presentation. Anyone who believes otherwise has probably never deployed.

Would I personally pay someone to assert up my shiny junk? Probably not, unless it was cheap -- but I'd be lying if I told you I never paid a houseboy to shine my boots every morning, or quartermaster laundry to starch my utilities.

Response by Maj Gerald Morgan made Oct 25 at 2018 2:38 PM

Maj Gerald Morgan — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 14:38:06 -0400

Attention to detail, do it yourself. It is our responsibility to know what goes where and be mindful of the reason for proper placement.

Response by SGT Gary Frank made Oct 25 at 2018 4:40 PM

SGT Gary Frank — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:40:14 -0400

If someone is willing to pay someone to do it, then let them. I wouldn't because it's a matter of pride, but I too am a Cold War Warrior.

Response by SGT Chris Lynch made Oct 25 at 2018 6:01 PM

SGT Chris Lynch — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:01:49 -0400

If people need to pay and have their uniforms set up they really dont need to be a soldier. That is pure laziness. No matter what i had to have my uniform ready for i did it myself and true soldiers should be able to set up both male and female uniforms without paying a dime.

Response by Sgt Michael O'Hara made Oct 25 at 2018 6:20 PM

Sgt Michael O'Hara — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 18:20:03 -0400

I am a 70 yr old former Marine (67-68). I still SS my leather, polish my brass and iron my own trousers and shirts. And yes, occasionally I wear my MM, like to my former CC graveside services at Fort Rosecrans last Aug. Stand Tall or Stand down. BTW! Semper Fi!

Response by MSG James Devereaux made Oct 25 at 2018 11:08 PM

MSG James Devereaux — Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:08:35 -0400

Nobody did a better job than I did, NOBODY. I would never entrusted my uniform to someone else. That should be the mentality of our soldiers, if it isn’t, then we need to change our soldiers.

Response by SPC Daniel Melendez made Oct 26 at 2018 3:03 AM

SPC Daniel Melendez — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 03:03:14 -0400

It’s pure Laziness and they shouldn’t even have the honor of wearing the uniform or even Promoted to ANY Rank!! I know setting up the uniform is a tedious task but I was always proud of the accomplishment after an inspection.
For a photo I know there’re prop uniforms but having yours prepared by someone who’s not even in the Military or Served is appalling.

Response by PO3 Earl Harman made Oct 26 at 2018 6:05 AM

PO3 Earl Harman — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 06:05:26 -0400

In this day and age, people want to do it the easy way.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Oct 26 at 2018 7:05 AM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 07:05:10 -0400

Yes, I too have put my own devices on my uniforms, per AR670-1. But, had my greens dry cleaned. I remember hearing rumor control state, officers paid someone to have it done. It's possible that the rumors are believed to be true, and the enlisted are following the an example they believe is in place.

Response by A1C Donald Frye made Oct 26 at 2018 9:32 AM

A1C Donald Frye — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 09:32:03 -0400

I too am old school sir..... I like to think the way I was trained! Just saying.

Response by CPT David Powell made Oct 26 at 2018 10:21 AM

CPT David Powell — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 10:21:32 -0400

I think having someone else setting up your uniform is setting yourself up for failure. You need make sure it is correct. After all it’s your promotion. You wouldn’t let someone else rig your rucksack would you?

Response by SGT David Nicholas made Oct 26 at 2018 11:05 AM

SGT David Nicholas — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:05:12 -0400

Well it is a Capt after all, lol. I've only known 1 officer while I was in that set up his own uniform and he was a Sgt. that went thru OCS.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2018 11:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:39:24 -0400

Lame, no pride whatsoever!!!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2018 12:12 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:12:16 -0400

Laziness at its finest.

Response by CPL Armyvet32 Boresz made Oct 26 at 2018 1:11 PM

CPL Armyvet32 Boresz — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 13:11:30 -0400

Does someone clean their weapons too? This is appalling to me. The military used to be a place where you learned discipline, attention to detail and responsibility....apparently not anymore, or at least not by some. That is sad, because you will carry these traits through your whole life. I hope the ones who do this are only a chosen few. I know when I was in (only for 3 yrs but 45 yrs ago) some would take their fatigues to the cleaners to be starched, but many did it themselves.

Response by PO3 Earl Harman made Oct 26 at 2018 2:11 PM

PO3 Earl Harman — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:11:00 -0400

We live in a service oriented society. If you need something done, but don’t have time to do it or just don’t want to do it, there are people and business out there that will do that for you, for a price.

Response by Steve Patton made Oct 26 at 2018 3:07 PM

Steve Patton — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 15:07:31 -0400

I'm a civilian so take my words with whatever grain of salt you feel necessary. Prior to the 20th century (and likely further) it was common for soldiers of all ranks and social classes to pay for these kinds of services. Whether they be performed by personal retainers for the wealthier officers or camp followers for the enlisted, NCOs, and less well to do officers. In the Napoleonic era, armies on campaign had long trains of civilians (usually uprooted by the war) making their living by selling supplies and services to the soldiers (where we get the pejorative terms camp-follower and Horse Trader). A soldier was still considered responsible for his kit, but was not expected to have done the work himself.

Response by SFC Jeff Corl made Oct 26 at 2018 4:34 PM

SFC Jeff Corl — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 16:34:35 -0400

By the time you need a DA photo, you should be more than able to set your own up. To be sure have someone else look it over they might see something you missed. But don't pay to have it done

Response by CPL Jody Freitas made Oct 26 at 2018 6:20 PM

CPL Jody Freitas — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:20:34 -0400

Been out a while now but is no surprise to me with the continuing inundation of b's menial task lumped on Joe's why they look for anything to be more time efficient. Paperwork Online Classes 15 prior to 15 hurry up and wait etc. I'll take a soldier who spends more time with his common tasks and cleaning his weapon then polishing his medals any day.

Response by Sgt Jon Sanders made Oct 26 at 2018 6:27 PM

Sgt Jon Sanders — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:27:07 -0400

Always took care of my dress uniforms myself. Did polish boots for some Marines. Because I showed them how it was done. But not to this level.

Response by SPC Tom Dardas made Oct 26 at 2018 7:04 PM

SPC Tom Dardas — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:04:58 -0400

I learned at a young age during my time in Civil Air Patrol to take pride and responsibility for my uniform's appearance and how I behave in it... During one inspection, a cadet got reamed for having a patch sewed in the wrong manner (grossly so); the flight sergeant asked him how this happened and the cadet's response caused me to cringe... He said "my mom sewed it on." The thought of having to say 'my mommy did it' resonated with me even during my 14 years in the Army. I sewed my own patches (as a cadet) to take responsibility for them and any f**k up that may have occurred.... the notion of paying someone to set up my class A carries the same 'its mommy's fault' feeling should something go awry.... could never bring myself to do that.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2018 7:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 19:28:24 -0400

There is a market for everything. Remember selling your CQ or Staff Duty?

Response by SGM Gregory Tarancon IV made Oct 26 at 2018 8:16 PM

SGM Gregory Tarancon IV — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 20:16:28 -0400

Sir,

As an NCO, I have always been taught that its good practice to learn how to prepare your uniform for DA photos, inspections and boards; and as an NCO, soldiers preparing for boards and inspections are going to come to YOU to help them square away there uniforms in accordance with AR 670-1. I can't imagine an NCO telling a soldier to let "Kim's Dry Cleaners" prepare there uniform for boards. The day this happens they should turn in there stripes!

Response by SGM Joe Young made Oct 26 at 2018 9:32 PM

SGM Joe Young — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:32:37 -0400

WTF? Are you shitting me Pyle. I always took pride in getting my Class A’s ready for inspection from the time I was an E2 through E9. I never cared to wear my dress uniform but when told to do so I made damn sure it was set up the correct way. And once I became a NCO it was important that my uniform was correct because others were looking at it to make sure theirs were done right. I would never pay anyone or even think about it. Guess the pride and self motivation are gone with today’s generation. Glad I’m retired. And yes, my dress blues are still set up correctly and could pass inspection.

Response by SFC Bruce Buwalda made Oct 26 at 2018 10:41 PM

SFC Bruce Buwalda — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 22:41:54 -0400

I entered basic training in March 1968 and retired on 1 Feb 89. That being said, I was trained to
properly to "set-up" my uniforms as well as instructed in the proper wearing of the uniform(s)!
My best guess on this issue would be, that training needs to be reviewed and personal responsibility needs to be emphasized to ALL ranks!!

Response by LCpl Bill McIntire made Oct 26 at 2018 11:34 PM

LCpl Bill McIntire — Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:34:23 -0400

I was in the Corps from 1977 to 81.
This has been going on since before I went in so NO! It’s not a new thing!
The barracks Mammasaun did most of our uniforms every week. Dress Uniforms too the Dry Cleaners.
Not understanding where all the whining and bitching is coming from.
Inspector Generals don’t give a shit who got them ready. They just better be ready and done right!

Response by SFC Jerry Sodan made Oct 27 at 2018 1:34 AM

SFC Jerry Sodan — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 01:34:29 -0400

I feel it is indicative of the generation that has been given everything and believe they are more important than anyone else. Personally if I were sitting on a DA promotion board I would look for the Trooper who obviously did his own set up. No if the rack of ribbons was upside down that would be a no go. But if the brass was slightly off the prescribed line that would indicate the Trooper tried. Too much emphasis is and has been placed on appearance. Show me a soldier that can lead and has their subordinates respect because said leader can lead, that’s the Trooper who should be promoted. The soldier who gets the job done. The soldier who doesn’t complain and just says “Roger that Sergeant or Sir” and completes the task above standards.
I’m from the black boot Army when we still had leaders from the brown boot Army. It’s important to show pride in your uniform and appearance but I’ve known too many “Pretty Boys” that couldn’t Tank and wound up being SSG’s, PSGs, 1SGs and on occasion CSMs. I’d rather have someone who knows their job, trains their troops, their Platoon Leader, advises the Commander properly and is always ready to deal death on the enemy.

Response by SSG Lance Wendling made Oct 27 at 2018 8:59 AM

SSG Lance Wendling — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 08:59:42 -0400

No, that's not being old school. You're being curmudgeonly. Back in my day we used brass until we figured out that you could buy gold plated and not have to get messy with brasso. We also sat up on Sunday night starching and pressing our BDUs until we learned we could take them all in to the cleaners and have them done professionally. Our duty as individual soldiers was and is to meet the standard. People used to pay me to spit shine their jump boots. If my soldiers could shoot, move, and communicate I was happy. When the barracks and uniforms passed inspection, I was happy.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2018 9:47 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 09:47:10 -0400

What is it to you what other people do? Live and let live, Colonel.
Btw, I have a lot of crap on my uniform too.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Oct 27 at 2018 2:09 PM

CW4 Brian Haas — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 14:09:57 -0400

So what? It’s really no different than taking your uniform to the cleaners to have it dry cleaned and starched. If they have the money, who cares who set it up as long as it’s done right. That’s all that matters.

Response by MAJ Ron Stokes made Oct 27 at 2018 4:06 PM

MAJ Ron Stokes — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 16:06:39 -0400

Always took care of my own... ret cpt

Response by CPL Joseph Hutchinson made Oct 27 at 2018 5:15 PM

CPL Joseph Hutchinson — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:15:43 -0400

Hmmm, I seem to remember performing countless buddy checks with combat gear, pre-jump inspections, as well as uniform inspections. For an Officer to have even one bad photo can be especially damaging to their carrier. Although I would never trust my uniform solely to another individual, I really do not see a problem paying to have it done.

Response by CPO Jeffery Kleindienst made Oct 27 at 2018 5:47 PM

CPO Jeffery Kleindienst — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:47:41 -0400

It is still the soldiers responsibility. Perhaps they feel having another set of eyes looking at it was beneficial. But really, if this is all you have to bitch about, you need to find a hobby. CPO USN ret

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2018 7:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 19:35:59 -0400

Woooooooho, chill pills are needed badly in this thread. I hope everyone is having a nice weekend...

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2018 10:15 PM

CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 22:15:50 -0400

So you willingly disobey an order then shame people for paying to make themselves look better. You need to look in the mirror first.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Oct 27 at 2018 10:50 PM

SFC William Farrell — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 22:50:10 -0400

Yup, a lot of crap COL Charles Williams and while I don’t have as much crap as you, I always did it by myself. Even when I put on my blues this past 911 for memorial services with FDNY I still set it up myself. While I don’t spit shine my shoes anymore, I do obsess over making it look right. With my brother and the Sergeant Major of the Army.

Response by SPC Nicholas Holcomb made Oct 28 at 2018 12:22 AM

SPC Nicholas Holcomb — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:22:28 -0400

I get what this is saying and it’s a valid point. But think of this. So in a Cav unit or infantry unit we spend all day at work doing dumb crap most days but some days actual work. We spend shit tons of time in the field. Let’s not forget I can talk to tons of veterans that will all complain about the platoon seargent that is having it rough at home and therefore doesn’t want to go home so he keeps us all longer at work. When we do finally get to go home I don’t want to spend that time working on a uniform that will take hours. I never personally paid a dry cleaner to do it, but I had men in my company or troop that came from the old guard and they would set up uniforms in half an hour. I came in during bdu’s and spit shining boots and I can’t twll you how many times I’ve met vets that had two pairs of boots set up. One super nice almost mirror finished for inspections and another that was so so. I can honestly say though I don’t know how spit shining my boots helped me during my four deployments. I got tons of chest candy and I’d pay to have someone put that shit together for me and you know what I don’t see how that would make me a bad soldier. I used all my resources to accomplish my task. We want thinkers not robots.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2018 7:46 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 07:46:53 -0400

I paid to have my uniform pressed.

I pay to have my rack made.

Response by Susan Foster made Oct 28 at 2018 10:01 AM

Susan Foster — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:01:02 -0400

Coming from someone who sewed patches on BDUs at a much younger age, I'm all for someone else doing it!

Response by PO3 Scot StClair made Oct 28 at 2018 10:02 AM

PO3 Scot StClair — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:02:38 -0400

Perfection is less achieved by someone else.

Response by CPT Robert Huddleston made Oct 28 at 2018 10:19 AM

CPT Robert Huddleston — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:19:36 -0400

That’s just totally UnSat

Response by Sgt Marbury Keys made Oct 28 at 2018 12:06 PM

Sgt Marbury Keys — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:06:40 -0400

When I served, I took great pride in my uniform, especially my dress blues and I did it all myself! Sad! Have pride!

Response by PO2 Leo Fredette made Oct 28 at 2018 1:25 PM

PO2 Leo Fredette — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 13:25:33 -0400

Would I do It myself, no. But I don't hold it against anyone who does. As long as the job is done correctly. Like all the people who never sewed on their own tags ( name, rate, US Navy, Flag ect) I saved a ton of money, because I could use a needle & thread. Made me no better & no worse than those who paid to have it done. I did have a little extra change in my pockets because of it. ;)

Response by PO1 Tony Clabough made Oct 28 at 2018 2:40 PM

PO1 Tony Clabough — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:40:20 -0400

Always did my own and took pride in it. Also it let me know that it was done correctly

Response by SSG John Mitchell made Oct 28 at 2018 2:55 PM

SSG John Mitchell — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:55:05 -0400

How can you inspect your Troops if you can't set up your own Uniform? I can understand why you'd want a service. However, as soon as you put your coat on, sometimes things shift. Unless you wear your A's everyday and have maintained your exact weight/build, laying your stuff out isn't going to show you where everything is going to land. I MIGHT put mine on once every other month and I always had to make adjustments. Even if I hadn't touched a thing. Just the nature of the beast. Female Jackets were the worst. They way their bodies cycle is nuts.

Response by LTC Ltc Butera made Oct 28 at 2018 6:13 PM

LTC Ltc Butera — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:13:28 -0400

I always did mine- but it is an expectation now- It is often recommended that they do it. They say sometimes your picture can make or break your cut.

Response by SGT James Ford made Oct 28 at 2018 8:27 PM

SGT James Ford — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:27:13 -0400

Old school builds pride in what you did, not the same as getting it done by someone else. Just my view.

Response by SSgt John Hughes made Oct 29 at 2018 3:39 AM

SSgt John Hughes — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:39:45 -0400

Hand sewed my strips, tags and emblems for 10 yrs. Mom taught me how and you couldn't see a stitch!! Did my of my buddies too!!

Response by LTC Stephan Skridla made Oct 29 at 2018 4:01 AM

LTC Stephan Skridla — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 04:01:12 -0400

The soldiers of today look like a bunch of cabbage the unit is don t fit boots are always scuffed they don't no how to wear a beret bell bring back the old starched green fatigues that you tucked in and had to shine your boots. I watched a pass and review and they can t eve March anymore. Put me back in on active duty and I'll have and army that can fight and win and look like soldiers .

Response by SPC Rex Marks made Oct 29 at 2018 6:17 AM

SPC Rex Marks — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 06:17:45 -0400

I done my own! I don't think that's right I call that cheating or just being lazy!

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Oct 29 at 2018 7:02 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:02:54 -0400

There could be many reasons why they are doing this. Time, don't know how, lazy, lack of professionalism who knows.....new Army.....I always thought DA photos should be in PT uniform. I agree with you on everything you said until the PS comment, I was always proud of my awards I earned them, they weren't crap...…..

Response by SFC Robert Townsend made Oct 29 at 2018 7:29 AM

SFC Robert Townsend — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:29:14 -0400

Could not agree more... it’s pride! And anyone that allows a civilian (regardless of who they are) to set up their uniform shouldn’t be wearing it.... Lazy... Where are the NCO’s?

Response by PO3 David Davis made Oct 29 at 2018 10:21 AM

PO3 David Davis — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:21:56 -0400

I have been guilty of that a couple time back in the 1987. Most of the time I did myself. Navy uniform at the time.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Oct 29 at 2018 3:54 PM

SGT Scott Henderson — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 15:54:02 -0400

Personally, i see nothing wrong with it. Does it say that a soldier has a lack of attention or care? Possibly but that's really just personal opinion.
I also find it funny that i see comments written by senior NCOs and field grades talking about how soldiers are lacking. Perhaps if you guys had talked to your friends in Washington and defended us junior NCOs years ago we'd still be able to enforce some semblance of a standard. When i was going through my medboard there were soldiers coming up hot on urinalysis but getting OTH discharges instead of the Dishonorable they deserved. I personally tried several times to recommend a soldier for article15 but had it thrown back in my face by my command. By the time i got out the NCO Corps was well on it's way to being so thoroughly de-balled it was damn near pointless. So thanks. Thanks for contributing to the destruction of discipline and morale. Politicians took care of the rest by turning the military into a freaking social experiment.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2018 5:11 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:11:38 -0400

I always did my own uniforms according to the regs.

Response by CAPT Dave Woodard made Oct 29 at 2018 8:24 PM

CAPT Dave Woodard — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 20:24:01 -0400

I've always used a military tailor for rating badges (Enlisted) and my "rings" as an officer. Had a civilian do the gold once and learned a valuable, and expensive, lesson. As we don't have much other stuff on the blouse, then get out the ruler, put the rack in place (I had one for dress and one for work), ruler, and patience.

Response by MSgt Gregory Smith made Oct 29 at 2018 10:34 PM

MSgt Gregory Smith — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 22:34:26 -0400

What ever works. He is still responsible the results. Good or bad

Response by MSgt Ron Rose made Oct 30 at 2018 9:17 AM

MSgt Ron Rose — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:17:20 -0400

I always managed my own uniforms, I wouldn't even like my wife wash them... only if she wished.

Two exceptions... I would have my dress blues dry cleaned... and, on Saturday mornings after chores, I would spread newspaper in the kitchen, grab my young daughters, and spend an hour or so shining Daddy's boots, they seemed to like helping me, I enjoyed it.

Response by Sgt Kenneth Kornexl made Oct 30 at 2018 10:07 AM

Sgt Kenneth Kornexl — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:07:20 -0400

The new soldiers of today are lazy and really don't know enough about HOW to set up their uniform.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2018 10:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:47:53 -0400

The only thing I did was take mine to the cleaners depending on what uniform or parts they got really starched! But I always did everything else! But I did have a Drill Instructor tell us at boot camp “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying, if you got caught you didn’t try hard enough”
But yes that’s just lazy and shows you the mentality

Response by SFC Richard Koleff made Oct 30 at 2018 11:39 AM

SFC Richard Koleff — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:39:24 -0400

I’ve been retired for forty eight years and recently when my two great nephews graduated from Marine boot camp, I bought a set of blues to wear in their honor. To catch up on protocol, I purchased a uniform guide from a uniform supplier and also had them make a new ribbon rack. As I assembled my uniform, each device brought back memories of when and where!

Response by PFC Randy Bell made Oct 30 at 2018 2:44 PM

PFC Randy Bell — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:44:29 -0400

I served from 2007 to 2010 and I still have my little book on proper placements for my class a

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2018 4:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 16:37:13 -0400

Here's a thought: What about the Services (ALL branches) providing GO's with full time aides that do their uniforms, cook, clean, ect for them? Is there a difference (aside from who flips the bill)?

Response by CPL Ed Carter made Oct 30 at 2018 8:05 PM

CPL Ed Carter — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 20:05:01 -0400

So next time a NCO is giving a board go ahead and ask questions about the uniform and placement of items the Soldier has on. If he can't answer it correctly then you know he dosen't have the proper knowledge to help a enlisted soldier. Thus drop him from the board and go to the next Soldier.

Response by SSG Steven Kelley made Oct 30 at 2018 8:30 PM

SSG Steven Kelley — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 20:30:37 -0400

Really? Who cares? If you have nothing better to do than worry about how Joe or Jonnie gets a personal task completed, they are not the problem. Just like on-post housing, you can clean when you leave and won’t pass inspection numerous times, or you can pay their cleaners and pass the first time. Does this in any way effect their performance? I had a complete nightmare of a Soldier when in garrison but in the field/ combat situation he excelled above his peers. Yes I shined my boots and can put a uniform together to exact standards; I also had my boots professionally stripped and shined once a year and occasionally shined. My kids also did them sometimes. The pictures look great, did both of you mount all those ribbons and medals yourself? After what I’m sure is awkward silence, most likely they were mounted by someone else, medals of America, US Cav or someplace similar. I’ve got a box full of badges and awards silently collecting dust. If your still serving, watch your own lane, if not; all your badges and awards and $5 still won’t get your mocha latte at Starbucks.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2018 10:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:26:39 -0400

Always did my own, did 25 yrs, it's a little goofy to pay someone you should take pride in doing.

Response by SGT Jason Covillon made Oct 30 at 2018 10:28 PM

SGT Jason Covillon — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:28:16 -0400

So did you sew on everything as well, and clean your own dress uniform and not take them to a dry cleaners? No? I didnt and wouldn't. It's a service that when utilized, frees up more time. It's the same in my book as doing it yourself but still using the booklet the PX sells to tell you what goes where. Dude is still ate up for not knowing either way.

Response by Tom Taylor made Oct 31 at 2018 6:16 AM

Tom Taylor — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 06:16:13 -0400

I believe that if you've earned every bar , stripe , or ribbon that you owe it to yourself to put it on yourself . Taking your uniform to the cleaners is ok .

Response by SGT Xenophon Garcia made Oct 31 at 2018 9:23 AM

SGT Xenophon Garcia — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:23:12 -0400

Was he a Navy captain?

Response by CPO Mike Riley made Oct 31 at 2018 11:37 AM

CPO Mike Riley — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 11:37:18 -0400

Is this really an issue with you?

Response by SSG Ken Schiffner made Oct 31 at 2018 12:21 PM

SSG Ken Schiffner — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:21:55 -0400

I always took pride in my uniform. My boots, that I spit shined every day. My brass, awards, everything. I did it all myself and would not pay someone else to do it. But, honestly, who cares? I could give two shits if someone does it themself or pays. All I care about is if a soldier can soldier. But then again I’m just a grunt.

Response by 1SG Howard Addington made Oct 31 at 2018 9:44 PM

1SG Howard Addington — Wed, 31 Oct 2018 21:44:44 -0400

I set my uniform up my self for 20 years and made E-8 in 14 years. Hard work always works

Response by SFC Richard Koleff made Nov 1 at 2018 9:18 AM

SFC Richard Koleff — Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:18:45 -0400

Addendum: today there is absolutely no excuse for lack of knowledge as you can draw the regulations online!

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Nov 2 at 2018 7:21 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:21:42 -0400

I set up my OWN uniform for my DA photos!!!If any Soldier has to pay for someone to set up their Uniform for this picture, THEY DON'T DESERVE TO HAVE THE RANK THEY HAVE!!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2018 2:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Nov 2018 14:35:08 -0400

Time. You trade time for doing this which you can be doing other things to further yourself such as learning or training or maybe even spending time with your family. If you think your time is better spent setting up a uniform or shining boots, more power to ya. I believe in working smarter and not harder. That is how you will succeed when you get out of the military.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2018 2:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Nov 2018 14:02:56 -0500

Spit-shinned... Lol

Response by PO3 Robert Stoneking made Nov 10 at 2018 1:36 AM

PO3 Robert Stoneking — Sat, 10 Nov 2018 01:36:30 -0500

I'm not at all surprised my dad has mentioned this from when he was in during the Korean war.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Nov 11 at 2018 8:50 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 20:50:42 -0500

Only once from Private to LtCol did anyone but myself touch my uniforms. That one time I had been summoned to the CGs office (about 50 miles away). Was going to stop by my quarters and change into a fresh uniform. To save a moment, I called ahead and asked my wife to wipe any dust off my other pair of spit shined boots. She used "Pledge" on them, so I ended up wearing the pair I had on.
To all you current folks or others who never experienced spit shined boots, Pledge basically strips all the polish off.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Nov 11 at 2018 9:47 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 21:47:42 -0500

Since I never paid for anything in the Army I say these shitbags better get their shit straight. Paying someone else to setup your uniform is bullshit

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Nov 12 at 2018 9:07 AM

MSgt Allen Chandler — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:07:43 -0500

First AcknowledgIng That the Air Force in the army have different traditions I don’t see the great crime in having an expert help you in a particular step. It would surprise me greatly if the great general of history Did not make use of their aids for this type of thing

Response by SGT Stan Setliff made Nov 13 at 2018 7:51 AM

SGT Stan Setliff — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 07:51:44 -0500

Setting up your own uniform is also part of the process. Attention to detail, pride in your work (yes, this is a real pain in the ...) are all reflections on the man inside. I'm with the COL. WTF

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made Nov 13 at 2018 5:01 PM

Cpl Thomas Woods — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 17:01:53 -0500

CAndhina Marines and Barracks Marines aboard Naval Stations in the Philippines had houseboys, who knew the regs as well as they did. I can understand that, considering the days before a/c, when one had to change shirts twice(or thrice) a day. But I liked, and believed in doing it myself.(And yes, I too shined my own boots in Jump School at Ft. Benning!) It builds confidence in one's own responsibility.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 2:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 02:50:53 -0500

Oh my... Somebody doing something that has been done forever. How could they? <sarcasm> Didn't anyone watch 'An Officer and a Gentleman' (1982) or any other of the dozens of movies that show this very practice? May I direct your attention to 1:37 and 4:00 mark in the movie clip?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgjNHhg9i9w

An Officer and a Gentlemen Reel.mov

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Dec 2 at 2018 6:34 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 18:34:38 -0500

This is done so you get the complete and proper fit of the uniform. Soldiers paying for this are not just getting their ribbons and other accoutrements mounted, they are getting the uniform tailored so it lays right, there is no bulge at the neck, and the pockets lie flat etc.

Instead of being like, whoa why not do this yourself; why not see it for what it is, and investment in your uniform so you don't look like a chump with a 300 dollar off the rack suit from Sears.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2018 11:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 11:36:29 -0500

As an army national guard soldier, I have to say that the upper ranks not understanding how hard it is to be both a soldier and a civilian professional, is not just annoying it is immoral. Most all of them are full-timers and just don't get it. Regular Army, do your thing. National Guard, good bye. I left 2 weeks ago after 10 years of service, a volunteered deployment as a Military Advisor to the ANA, and finishing top of my class in every Army training I ever went to and that includes training mixed with regular Army.

There are so many "implied tasks" that involve working for tens of hours each month without pay that it is a direct insult to my family and their well-being. Army National Guard upper-ranks need to get a clue if they want professional soldiers.

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made Dec 10 at 2018 1:31 AM

Sgt Jude Eschete — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 01:31:19 -0500

I personally set up my uniforms for every inspection, every event, everything. Reason being, No excuses if something is out of place. A civilian may know some of the regs, or they may know out dated ones. I would at most let my Marines purchase their medal mounted because those are costly and easy to mess up, but only at the on base MCX.

Last thing I need is to be in an inspection and have something jacked up that I wouldn't have missed, and if I have to go over them after getting them done, why would I pay for it anyways?

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Dec 22 at 2018 3:34 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:34:12 -0500

If you think about this time period in time I am not surprised. Kids want nothing to do with work and this is the easy way out. I don’t Day it’s right but there is nothing wrong with it either. Think about this; the government made our boots we don’t have to polish, uniforms we don’t have to iron so why wouldn’t they take the easy way out?

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 11:20 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 23:20:12 -0500

Well, let’s look on the bright side. They don’t look like shit bags. I have seen time and time again where individuals do not wear the uniform correctly.

Response by SGT George Duncan made Jan 20 at 2019 6:30 PM

SGT George Duncan — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:30:28 -0500

if you are going to worry about how you look why are you in the army?

Response by Brad Miller made Jan 28 at 2019 10:14 AM

Brad Miller — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 10:14:08 -0500

Maybe I'm just Old School on this, but if you can't pay attention to that kind of detail, what else are you NOT paying attention to? And how many other people are going to get hurt because of it?

Response by SrA Joseph Wolosz made Jan 29 at 2019 2:43 AM

SrA Joseph Wolosz — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 02:43:50 -0500

Dear Sir, I haven't seen Class A uniforms on soldiers in a while.
Which is a shame. The BDUs have become the standard daily uniform. Which cheapens the dress uniform for a reason I don't agree with. If there was a parade I would have my Class A uniform dry cleaned. I would sew my own rank insignia on the sleeves and make sure I put all enlisted man's pins,name tag and the ONE ribbon I had.
Bring back the class A to being a mandatory uniform.
I want to see my teeth shining in those dress parade shoes!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2019 6:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 06:00:15 -0400

I think it's kind of funny that anyone would want to pay to have their uniform setup rather than do it themselves. I understand the concept of wanting to look good but that is what your peers and Senior leadership get paid for. You should be confident in setting up your uniform because eventually one day you will be the person checking a soldier's uniform but then again that's just my opinion.

Response by SSG Byron Howard Sr made Apr 25 at 2019 10:51 PM

SSG Byron Howard Sr — Thu, 25 Apr 2019 22:51:58 -0400

Only had a few DA's taken but I shot a bunch best advice check with your 1ST SGT or CSM. If you want to pay go for it.

Response by PO2 Bill Reardon made Jun 10 at 2019 5:01 AM

PO2 Bill Reardon — Mon, 10 Jun 2019 05:01:59 -0400

What is a DA photo?

Response by SPC Rob Lewis made Aug 27 at 2019 1:40 PM

SPC Rob Lewis — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:40:08 -0400

Someone just figured out how to make more money offering a service. “If you build it they will come”. I would have never done this while I was in but is it any different than paying to have your boots shined or your BDU’s starched ( I know you’re not supposed to, I actually used glue on mine).
With the multiple deployments and other awards that are given out now it probably is confusing to try and figure out what goes where. So if they are willing to pay to have it done and done right, why not?

Response by SPC John Decker made Aug 27 at 2019 11:13 PM

SPC John Decker — Tue, 27 Aug 2019 23:13:18 -0400

I enlisted in '81. I always did my own by not everyone did, even then. Between capitalism and laziness, this will always happen.

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Aug 28 at 2019 9:49 PM

PO2 Nick Burke — Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:49:06 -0400

I did this in the 80s and early 90s.
What is the operational tempo? We were out every week 6x6 with a full work day. Off for a day or day and a half if no duty on the weekends.
Not a lot of time to look pretty.

Response by SPC Randall PeQueen made Aug 29 at 2019 12:31 AM

SPC Randall PeQueen — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 00:31:44 -0400

Bring them to me, I'll take their money.

Response by SGM Patrick Kirby made Aug 30 at 2019 9:25 PM

SGM Patrick Kirby — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:25:38 -0400

Quite frankly I take a great deal of personal pride in my uniform and would never sub it out. Having said that, hey if it works for you , go for it.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Sep 12 at 2019 7:45 AM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 07:45:57 -0400

Sir just saw this post and recently returned from my visiting my son at his post, while I was down there I visited clothing sales and saw a uniform setup station. What amazed me was the two ASU jackets for SSG's that were being set up by a very young man and a sign saying that this business was owned by a retired 1SG, While I applaud Top for his business Idea as I did Gut Trucks being run by retired NCO's I had t a WTF moment at SSG's paying others to set up their uniforms. Back in the day I used a Boot Black at BAS as many did due to time constraints but having someone else set up my uniform is abhorrent to me. These NCO's are expected to inspect and mentor lower enlistment in how to properly wear the uniform and yet they are to lay to set up their own uniforms. I am still shaking my head at that idea. While down their I helped inspect my sons ASU for his unit dinning in and I only found minor issues, showed him how to correct them and he passed the pre-inspection easily. I did miss one item and I blame my out of calibration and failing mark 1 eyeballs :)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2019 10:36 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Sep 2019 10:36:57 -0400

Family of four, two school aged kids with extra curricular activities, a house to maintain, obtaining additional civilian education like the Army preaches to me, and then find time to spend with my family on top of having a demanding job in the Army.....yeah, I'm going to pay someone to do it for me if I absolutely need to.

On the other hand, I do take pride in my equipment and uniforms and I normally put them together on my own. Sometimes life happens and I need to divert my attention to more important matters.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2019 10:07 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 22:07:01 -0500

You know initially I thought how sad it was. In today's modern military we lack much of what made us great to begin with. I set up my own uniform and regret that our current garrison uniform makes everybody look the same. I wish we still polished our boots and starched our uniform, which is just another way to stand out from the rest. As a reservist I also realize that time is money. These lazy Soldiers just choose to spend their money instead of their time. It's not what I would do but there is nothing that prevents them from doing that, except personal pride which they don't have much of if they pay for it.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Dec 12 at 2019 5:58 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:58:31 -0500

I was at Ft Bliss recently and dropped by clothing sales, in the front was a uniform station where a retired 1SG sets up your uniform for a few bucks. I then saw a CSM Jacket in the rack and just shook my head. I could see possibly lower enlisted doing this for one reason or another but a CSM? I am so glad I am retired because I was embarrassed for the CSM.

Response by SPC(P) Lawrence Tolentino made Jul 11 at 2020 12:44 PM

SPC(P) Lawrence Tolentino — Sat, 11 Jul 2020 12:44:03 -0400

I know this is an old post but I have to put in my two cents.

I enlisted into the Regular Army in March 2013 and have always put together my Service Uniform out of pride, especially due to the fact of being taught the importance of taking pride in the ASU as an Army Junior ROTC cadet during my high school years.

I was more shocked than anything when I saw the option to pay to have your ASU put together by the dry cleaning employees. I believe you should know everything you display on your uniform because one day you'll have to teach the next generation of Soldiers how to access the AR and DA PAM on Army publications, and to be proud of the awards that have been earned whether it's a simple AAM up to the Medal of Honor.

Response by 1SG David Spalding made Jul 14 at 2020 9:24 PM

1SG David Spalding — Tue, 14 Jul 2020 21:24:56 -0400

I had a bit of crap on my uniform as well. I printed out the appropriate pages of AR 670-1, and used them after I'd get my uniform back from the cleaners. Too easy.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 15 at 2021 12:43 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Fri, 15 Jan 2021 12:43:48 -0500

Soldiers should mount their own bling. It's a sign of discipline.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 10 at 2021 4:56 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 16:56:40 -0400

No opinion on uniforms, but a CPL with two hash marks jumps off that picture. No judgement, just saying.

Response by SGT Alejandro Benavides made Jul 10 at 2021 5:33 PM

SGT Alejandro Benavides — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 17:33:24 -0400

I paid to have it done for me once. When I was a misguided new private to a Rear-D battalion. I asked my NCO and E-4s for help and they told me to go to the local cleaners and pay for the set up and boot shining (82nd). I passed the first inspection. But then I deployed with my unit and when I came back, my uniform was still “ready”. I got my ass chewed out. I stopped by the uniform store to buy a sewing ruler, a can of kiwi boot shine and a single blade razor to shave my beret. I never had a single discrepancy thereafter. I took pride in my uniform and spent hours on my boots. I would try to help the new soldiers get squared away before inspections and never send them off to civilians who don’t care.

Response by SFC Stanley Nelson made Jul 10 at 2021 6:09 PM

SFC Stanley Nelson — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 18:09:53 -0400

What’s the difference between a General’s Aid putting a Uniform together for him. Than someone of lower rank paying for it to be done. And don’t say that the General doesn’t have time to do it. Everyone has responsibilities with limited time to complete work and personal issues..
I remember when I was a junior Enlisted, that I purchased extra Uniform items, so that I had had a set for inspections. This way I didn’t have to wast time and allowed me to focus on other things on my plate.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jul 10 at 2021 6:13 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 18:13:45 -0400

Why, do you have someone else clean your weapon? Its mine not theirs. Who do you blame if something is wrong or does not work! They won't be there!

Response by SFC Stanley Nelson made Jul 10 at 2021 7:20 PM

SFC Stanley Nelson — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 19:20:14 -0400

How many of you on here have paid to have Medal Racks Professionally built, because they look better than what you can do yourself? Is this wrong also? Just because I can sew on my Rank and Hash Strips, doesn’t mean I should do it. It would look like shit! therefore I would look like shit to anyone who saw me, regardless of Rank. Isn’t the endstate for all Soldiers to look as sharp as possible.