What are your thoughts on reducing the legal drinking age for Active Duty members?

2015-02-27T12:06:47-05:00

Well, a Maryland State Legislator is proposing a bill to lower the legal drinking age for Active Duty service members. What are your thoughts on this? Personal and professional.

We have all heard the arguments and know the in-house statistics on alcohol related incidents. A common argument we hear is, "If you are old enough to die for your country you should be old enough to have a drink." Some interesting facts presented in a study conducted across the branches on alcohol use among military members: http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh284/252-257.htm.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/02/27/md-senator-ron-young-proposes-lowering-drinking-age-for-active-duty-service-members/24112643/

Lawmaker: Lower drinking age for active duty service members

ighteen-year-old active duty service members can vote, smoke and fight for their country, but they can't have a drink — a Maryland Senator is looking to change that.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Feb 27 at 2015 12:32 PM

2015-02-27T12:32:50-05:00

When I was in the military there was no problem getting a beer or whatever if you were on base, but the civilian laws were enforced off base.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Feb 27 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-02-27T12:50:23-05:00

I can see this becoming an issue... but, it already happens. The problem is that once it's legal we then have to do military enforcement on those who can't keep it on a reasonable level(and what are those standards going to be?). Going to eat up time and resources - as it is, as bad as this is, most of the problems are handled by Civil authorities. But once it's legal...
If we are going to do it then some form of Mil. Policy is going to be required, and then it's going to have to be enforced.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 12:50 PM

2015-02-27T12:50:56-05:00

I stand by the addage that if you can die for your country at 18, why in the hell can't you have a beer?

Response by Cpl Nikki Reynaga made Feb 27 at 2015 12:55 PM

2015-02-27T12:55:50-05:00

They are drinking anyway. Then NJP and discharged. Suspension of this privilege should be on an individual basis as it has been for 21+.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 1:05 PM

2015-02-27T13:05:46-05:00

Adults/teens under the age of 21 are getting their hands on alcohol already. And overseas, many of our military members and family members are drinking under 21. I don't feel the issue is the age but more the maturity level.

These young Soldiers arrive in Germany, first time being away from home and within walking distance to the bar end up getting into trouble. They do not know their limit or their tolerance level (especially with the alcohol volume difference in some countries). A German beer is a few Bud Lights.

Changing the law/drinking age is not going to solve the problem. It may reduce a few fines, but in the long run there will still be issues when people drink.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Feb 27 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-02-27T13:07:07-05:00

If you are old enough to vote and die for your country then you should be able to drink. I think statistics will show that this binge drinking will go down. Most find a way to get alcohol anyway.

Response by SGT James Mosley made Feb 27 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-02-27T13:13:20-05:00

If you are old enough to die for your country then you are old enough to drink in your country. I am a firm beliver in this. But, there is always going to be that 1 guy....

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-02-27T13:31:52-05:00

I would be generally fine with lowering the drinking age, but there are several major problems that I can see with this.

1.) Generating fake military IDs or bars getting into trouble for not knowing the difference between the Geneva Convention military ID and the dependent ID that we utilize for insurances.

2.) Undue peer pressure exerted on 17-18 year olds that are now entering military service. They go home, fresh from boot camp and their buddies want them to buy a beer. If caught, that could lead to NJP, UCMJ, and even potential discharge depending on the command climate. I would hate to ruin the rest of an 18 year old's life because he made a single bad decision. That is what we are supposed to do from 19-20...get that stuff out of our way. How many PFCs do we have spending their bonus money on Hummer H2s, strippers, or Dependapotamus "He loves me, we need to get married before we deploy" personalities?? Why add to that mess??

I know we had a massive issue with one of our Pre-IET Soldiers convincing an NCO to buy her a drink (she was 17, nearly 18). People like that make me question the decisions, because if you don't care about the possibility of getting another person that you know in trouble so that you can have a beer, how are you going to empathize with the potential for getting someone killed by drinking and driving? Yes...I know it may not be the smartest move on the part of the NCO, but she didn't think to ask the Soldiers age. I only came to know of this because the pre-IET Soldier needed to be driven to drill.

3.) Further increasing the risks of drinking and driving by having substantially inexperienced drivers, who also are "inexperienced drinkers" and make a bad decision. This could get them or others killed. Yes, I know that this is an individual decision, but again, I don't wanna see an 18 year old ruined off of it.

Now.....I generally would say I'm not opposed to the concept. Logically I would love to say that we can all make mature decisions and handle ourselves like adults. However, I think a lot of the classmates that I saw weren't able to do this. I know if I hadn't been around the drunk drivers in the ambulance from the time I was 17, I probably wouldn't have been any different.

v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by SPC Anthony Davis made Feb 27 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-02-27T13:43:39-05:00

When I was in and stationd at Ft Eustis VA, the post Commander had a 5.2 law. Basically on the installation, military personnel between 18 and 20 could drink beer. This kept them from going off post and drinking and driving. They just walked to the nco club, bowling ally, unit bar. I believe this helped the young kids get the big I can drink urge end before they turned 21. Most of us just hung out on post with our friends on the installation, we had more fun and it made us more of a family.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-02-27T13:46:41-05:00

I don't really see the big deal, but I can see this becoming an issue. The first time an 18-year-old SM gets drunk as a skunk and drives (and hurts or kills someone), there will be outrage. I also think this will increase the production of fake military IDs, which is not good from a force protection angle.

While I do find it kind of unfair that SMs can fight and die for their country, but can't have a beer, the drinking age of 21 is the law of the land. Kind of like marijuana being legal in some states, but SMs cannot partake. Just one of those things. Probably better not to stress over it, wait until you're 21, and get back to soldierin'.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Feb 27 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-02-27T14:45:56-05:00

Old enough to die, old enough to drink.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 2:51 PM

2015-02-27T14:51:41-05:00

Seems to me that America's problems with alcohol come not from the age of the consumers, but rather from their lack of education. For example, a World Health Organization report (http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcohol_report/msbgsruprofiles.pdf) compared the drinking habits and costs of many countries. In one section, they compared costs (including health care, law enforcement, etc) for high-income countries, using Canada, France, Scotland, and the United States as examples.

- The U.S. had costs about twice as high as the other countries listed.
- The U.S. has the highest legal drinking age (the other countries listed are 18-19 years old).
- The U.S. had the second-lowest drinking rate of the four countries (Canada had a slightly lower per capita drinking rate, both of the others were about 50% higher than the U.S.).

Ergo, the problem does not seem to be our drinking age or how much we drink, but rather how we drink it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-02-27T14:58:56-05:00

I'm having a very hard time finding an upside to changing the law.
On it's face, it would be a morale booster to a slice of the military population. But I don't see how they are denied anything they never had. This 21 year old age limit has been the law nearly everywhere for 20 years.
Honestly I don't know why the Army would make it easier to procure a depressant in a time of rampant Soldier suicide rates.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 27 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-02-27T15:03:08-05:00

Because that's all young Soldiers need, MORE access to alcohol... Are the alcohol related incidents not numerous enough? It's already the massive elephant in the room during most NJP's, ART 15's, Courts Martial and SHARP incidents...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-02-27T15:03:59-05:00

Kids who come in need to get their head on straight before we start allowing them to drink.

Response by SN Kyle Carpenter made Feb 27 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-02-27T15:09:04-05:00

I've never understood the "if your old enough to die for you country..." line. My RDCs taught me (as did Gen Patton) dying for ones country doesn't win a war... Plus why are we equating puting on a uniform with drinking? And who would volunteering to giving away some of you constitutional rights for at least 4yrs in a uniform shows the ability to make GOOD decisions? Haha just a little veteran humor. But really just because you signed up doesn't mean you can handle drinking openly.

Response by SSG John Erny made Feb 27 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-02-27T15:09:26-05:00

Well, when I was PVT (19 Yrs old) we could drink in most of the clubs on base because no one gave a damn. During Airborne School on a week end some friends and I were walking down Victory Drive and some one opened the door to the PTL (Pillow Talk Lounge) and said come on in.

My first squad leader at Bragg came to our rooms after the first day and gave us all a swig of Jack.

Response by SGT Joe Sabedra made Feb 27 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-02-27T15:16:40-05:00

I was 17 and allowed to drink beer and wine type drinks on base.
I could buy it on base since I was serving in the military.
Hard alcohol needed to be 21.

I wasn't thrilled about it but dealt with it.

It looks to be a state issue and not a military issue.

As far as the military is concerned beer and wine style drinks should be allowed for any serving member.

Harder stuff can wait till 21

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 27 at 2015 3:22 PM

2015-02-27T15:22:36-05:00

I agree with this movement because if you are old enough to take a bullet for this country then you are old enough to drink. When I was 17/18 awaiting high school graduation I wrote my Congressman and Senator and in 1992 they too we in agreement but the main hurdle was getting enough support from others. MADD is still a very relevant special interest group that will fight it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-02-27T15:31:30-05:00

Fight and die for this country, should be able to enjoy all of the freedoms you protect.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 27 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-02-27T16:08:48-05:00

Why just military members? Why not everyone?

I think this will lead to more problems if just for military, especially for our youngest members as stated by CPT Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Feb 27 at 2015 4:25 PM

2015-02-27T16:25:19-05:00

Better hope the civilian police pick you up and lock you up first if you are the DUI dummy. Sure as hell better than the SGM coming after you.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Feb 27 at 2015 5:10 PM

2015-02-27T17:10:20-05:00

I understand the temptation to lower the drinking age for service members considering the responsibility of national security in our shoulders.
However, we already major problems with alcohol irresponsibility with our young troops. We don't to increase our troubles by making drinking legal

Response by SSG John Erny made Feb 27 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-02-27T17:23:07-05:00

Serve beer in the barracks but make to serve only cheap beer. Yuck!!!! Schaffers any one?

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Feb 27 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-02-27T23:05:40-05:00

Should the drinking age for military be 18? Yes. Will the drinking age for military be 18? No.

Too much funding at stake. It is what it is.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2015 11:35 PM

2015-02-27T23:35:21-05:00

An age needs to be decided where society says you’re an adult with all the privileges and responsibilities that come with it. 16 to drive, 17 to join the military with parental approval, 18 to vote, 21 to drink or purchase a handgun is total bullshit.

I’m with the crowd if you’re old enough to die for your country, you’re old enough to drink.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 28 at 2015 1:05 AM

2015-02-28T01:05:56-05:00

Sorry, but I did not like your answer options. It is a big deal, but I think it requires a real discussion. I have always believed if you can serve your country, and put you life on the line, you should be allowed to drink too.

I came in the Army in 1980, the drinking age was 18 and went to 21 (but I was grandfathered), and we did a lot of drinking then, but it has gone down dramatically such. Most folks today, have no idea what the Army (likely the Navy, Air Force, and Marines too) were like in the 80s... probably worse before then, as I entered an Army on the mend. Lots of drinking was encouraged and glamorized. Before the urinalysis testing started, it was not uncommon to have multiple (10 or more at times) drug finds during a health and welfare (I was a dog handler). That was a mess... So, things are so much better now.

Nevertheless, I know anyone can do research and develop a result that supports their theory. My opinion comes from personal experience, and we all were just fine. I think requires serious discussion.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 1:12 AM

2015-02-28T01:12:21-05:00

I can not believe this is even an issue. I mean, does anybody even remember the 60's and 70's, the near beer and the lower percentage beer for the people 18 - 21 and then the clubs had the dubious responsibilities of keeping track of who was drinking which kind of beer and how their hand was stamped. It was a nightmare that could only have been a joke invented in the bottom of a tequila bottle.

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Feb 28 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-02-28T10:18:45-05:00

I think a Military ID should allow you to at least drink beer on or off base.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-02-28T10:49:45-05:00

Alright, I've been the under 21yo Soldier and now I'm the Cop.

If it's kept to the Military Installation, sure. Let's make this happen, because they've earned it. However, I've seen accidents and irresponsibility from those who are under 21 and consuming alcohol.

Essentially, don't rush the issue and allow a decision to be made which benefits society. Because Libtard college kids are going to cry about it, because they think they should have the same rights as a Soldier, without having to do anything.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Feb 28 at 2015 1:04 PM

2015-02-28T13:04:24-05:00

Other:
I disapprove of different legal standards between servicemembers and civilians.

If the age of majority is 18, that should be sufficient for alcohol, voting, and handgun purchase.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Feb 28 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-02-28T18:10:14-05:00

Sure, I think that 19 year old Soldiers should be able to drink, since we ask them to die for our country at that age. Here is where I think it gets messy. We already have a huge issue with drinking and drinking related offenses. We are all 'adults' and should be able to carry ourselves accordingly, but let's face it, some are not able to do this. I would hate to set up these young Soldiers...let's face it, alcohol related incidents can certainly be something that can get you sent home with the downsizing going on.

Response by SGT(P) Daniel McBride made Feb 28 at 2015 7:56 PM

2015-02-28T19:56:09-05:00

id go off of a case-by-case basis. I've seen seniors get belligerent while lower enlisted realize their limit and take the correct precautions to enjoy their time / night.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 28 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-02-28T21:11:24-05:00

I'll go a step further. Anyone who is mature enough to defend this country is mature enough to have a drink and vote.

Age has little to do with maturity. I know plenty of those who are well past legal majority who don't have the common sense to handle alcohol or the franchise to vote. Good grief, look at the percentage of people who voted for Obama. (Okay, that was a bit partisan. You may now ding me...)

Response by Cpl Kevin Zimmermann made Feb 28 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-02-28T21:15:38-05:00

I currently have 3 of my children serving (my son is a Marine with 3-1, my daughter is on the Carl Vinson laying it to ISIS, and my other daughter is in the Air Force handling some computer security duties). Now that the unnecessary qualifications are out of the way.... I have ZERO issues with our service members having a lower drinking age...in spite of the "dangers of alocohol" argumentments etc.... I DO understand the administrative challenges associated with such a decision but... I think it can be managed more efficiently on a Military base.

Response by SGT William Hawn made Feb 28 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-02-28T21:52:18-05:00

Fact of the matter is that regardless of what side of the house you are on, at 17 to 20 years of age you are not going to stop a young soldier from drinking..... lower the limit to 18, period.

Response by CPT Richard Riley made Feb 28 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-02-28T22:18:18-05:00

To me this falls into the category of - Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. No matter what the rules are, there will always be someone who takes things beyond the safe zone and in the end hurts another or themselves. It is legal in some states to drink at that age. The other things that come with that age are immaturity, limited lack of common sense, and general invincibility.

There will be some who can handle themselves correctly and do not step outside the lines, the problem befalls to those few who have an issue that turns into something so much more than planned. I realize it's not the same conversation but most states allow driving at 16 ... most are ready to accept that responsibility - a few are not.

It's difficult for me to say 'go ahead and open the flood gates' on this one ...

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Feb 28 at 2015 11:00 PM

2015-02-28T23:00:17-05:00

The way I see it the minimum age should be 18, if he or she is old enough to enlist into the military and risking their lives in dangerous war torn countries. The individuals should be able to drink responsibly, they are no longer children after finishing Basic Training and AIT, they earned that privilege.

Response by MSgt Aaron Brite made Feb 28 at 2015 11:36 PM

2015-02-28T23:36:56-05:00

I have been a proponent of lowering the drinking age for those in uniform to the age where they have reached the maturity necessary to fulfill their duty. Sadly I have concluded that age should be 25.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 3:09 AM

2015-03-01T03:09:29-05:00

Personally I think we need to reduce the drinking age across the board. The U.S. has one of the most restricitve alcohol age limits and it is a constant thorn in the side. Just make it 18 already and be done with it.

-We don't uniformly enforce the drinking standards.
-We issue drivers licenses at age 16 and alcohol at age 21. Meaning the average driver has 5 years to grow comfortable and a little bit careless behind the wheel before alcohol is added to the mix. File that under "Recipes for Success."
-You can vote at 18 you can die for your country at 18, you can purchase tobacco at 18, your legally an adult at 18, but alcohol is withheld? On what basis? Because all the other legal methods of self destruction are available.

And that's about all I've got.

Response by SFC Jeremy Smith made Mar 1 at 2015 3:27 AM

2015-03-01T03:27:39-05:00

When I first came into the Marine Corps in 1992 we were permitted to drink on base at Camp Pendleton. I was told it was told at the time it was to discourage us from going to Tijuana. Then I went to Okinawa where it was 18 years old for beer and 20 for hard liquor in 1994...shortly after that pump three boneheads raped a 12 year old girl then all the alcohol policies changed.

I got out in 1996 then joined the Army where I became a senior NCO. There were times I would of loved to raise the drinking age to 25 just from late night calls. In the 82nd sometimes the whole company would called in....But all young Service Members are going to drink no matter what controls you put on them. With knowing the military cannot control State laws and they do not have to accept or acknowledge our laws. But we can control everything on our installations, I would prefer the younger Service Members be allowed to be on base drinking than off. They get to cut loose some of their stresses, and do not have risk drinking and driving or getting caught by law enforcement for underage drinking. Less NJP (possibly) to worry about.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-03-01T03:46:09-05:00

You can vote at 18, deciding who to run the country, join the military and have to be able to make judgement calls to shoot someone, drive a vehicle at up to 70 mph and make judgement calls actually at 16, and by law you are declared an adult at 18... So why can't you make the decision like everyone else to be stupid with alcohol... Looking at the vast majority of Americans, I don't think it matters what age we are.... Stupidity knows no age limits.... And as for it only being military believe it or not most 18 year olds who wear a uniform are way more responsible and mature than the civilian 18 year old. And the rest of us drank at that age, not legally and made sure to not get caught, or rather they chose probably not to bust us and we still got up and ran PT... And showed up to formation on time... Making it legal is not going to make it worse, making it legal will make it so we have less paperwork... They are already doing it... I say no big deal..

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 9:11 AM

2015-03-01T09:11:06-05:00

I would say that we should go farther and lower the drinking age to 18 for everyone. I just spent a little over 3 years in Europe and they have low if any enforced drinking age and it is not a problem for them. Our new soldiers over there can drink and is not a problem. You have had combat troops come back from wherever after a year deployment and cant even get into a bar and to me that is wrong.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 9:25 AM

2015-03-01T09:25:31-05:00

I'm just waiting for the first 18 year old who refuses to sign up for Selective Service, is denied student aid, and sues the government over what he perceives to be unfair treatment and discrimination.

Both because he can't drink until 21, AND because females aren't required to sign up.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Mar 1 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-03-01T09:40:04-05:00

Used to be you could drink at the beer gardens on post before age 21. It was 3.2% beer though. I do not see a problem.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-03-01T13:51:27-05:00

Standby for more SHARP and alcohol related incidents....

Response by PO3 David Davis made Mar 1 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-03-01T14:37:08-05:00

Lowering the drinking age to 18 on Military installations seems reasonable.

Response by SSG Sean Knudsen made Mar 1 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-03-01T17:23:33-05:00

Obviously my response is yes. 18 year olds can vote and take the responsibility to change the outcome of the White House. 18 year olds can serve and defend and die for their country. 18 year old can file federal and state tax returns. The list is long, the reasoning shouldn't be.

Response by TSgt David Holman made Mar 1 at 2015 5:54 PM

2015-03-01T17:54:12-05:00

This is a hard one... I believe that if someone is responsible enough to give their life for their country, then they should be responsible enough to drink... however, the key word is "should". It could also bring some unfavorable attention to the military when an 18 year old soldier (not old enough by civilian standards) walks into a store, already drunk, buys more alcohol (lets face it, most civilian stores won't stop selling you alcohol even if you are drunk) and then drives his car into another killing someone. That is obviously a worst case thing, but, it has a pretty high possibility... If the military wants to lower the drinking age for service members with restriction (i.e., only in government housing/baracks, only at military facilities) then that is another thing all together (puts the onus back on the chain of command and the member... not the service).

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Mar 1 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-03-01T18:52:53-05:00

Yes. It should be lowered for all.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 1 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-03-01T21:04:11-05:00

Equal Protection Clause.

Can't have different rules for one subset of society than another.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 9:07 PM

2015-03-01T21:07:12-05:00

If they are old enougth to die for their country they should be allow to drink. If they mess up they should face the consequences of their actions. I am from Puerto Rico. The legal drinking age is 18. The drinking age for many other countries is the same and sometimes younger. The USA is the only ones who have it as old as 21. Where did this number come from why 21? You are no different between the ages of 18 (once graduated from HS) and the age of 21. Its only a 3 year gap. Not much can make you become a mature individual. It may not make you any more mature at all. So what is the basis for the age od 21 as opposed to the age od 18, 19, or 20?

Response by SFC William Bailey made Mar 1 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-03-01T21:09:30-05:00

Yes the drinking age for all in the United States, not just Military, should be lowered to 18. It is unjustified that at 18 years old a person is considered an adult, can vote, can serve on a jury, can serve in the US Military, can live completely independent of their parents, and yet they are not allowed to legally consume alcohol.
This completely flies in the face of logic.

The Military and society as a whole should also quit demonizing alcohol, as if it were a boogie man. However we should also avoid glamorizing it is as well.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 1 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-03-01T21:13:23-05:00

I can see why people would like this idea, but overall I do not support it as it would open up a Pandora's Box of new problems over time. The military already has a tough enough time trying to get legal age personnel to behave more responsibly with alcohol...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-03-01T22:25:32-05:00

if it is lowered to 18, you will probably see an increase in alcohol related incidents for sure and you will see more deaths which is bad obviously. We will see more young military members ruin their lives and careers over it.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 1 at 2015 10:28 PM

2015-03-01T22:28:47-05:00

no problem bro.... building the brotherhood....excellent movie to watch on the subject...movie "Fortress"

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-03-01T22:35:04-05:00

And I wish that the government will get out of the lives and sexuality of others. Period,

Response by SPC Charles Griffith made Mar 1 at 2015 10:52 PM

2015-03-01T22:52:38-05:00

It is my opinion that once you become legally responsible for your self you should have ALL adult rights. If we reserve any rights then we have no real right to hold one accountable for anything as we have said we don't think they are responsible enough yet to have rights. Just my opinion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 1:12 AM

2015-03-02T01:12:36-05:00

Reduce it; Raise it; Keep it the same, they're still gonna do what they're gonna do... and learn from it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 3:20 AM

2015-03-02T03:20:46-05:00

I was at Fort Bliss when the drinking age there for servicemembers was 18. This was on base only. To prevent SM from going across the border into Juarez, while it still was allowed. I did not see an issue with it, I still don't.
If you are old enough to fight and die for your country you should be old enough to have a drink. If you are stupid about it, then you are old enough to get into trouble.
This is one of the biggest reasons why I stay home nights and weekends, I don't want to put up with drunks, whether driving or not.

Response by SPC Richard White made Mar 2 at 2015 4:14 AM

2015-03-02T04:14:20-05:00

If your old enough to pick up a weapon then you are old enough to drink.

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Mar 2 at 2015 6:53 AM

2015-03-02T06:53:05-05:00

When I was enlisted (87-91) Soldiers could drink on post regardless of what local state law was. But back then a fight didn't ruin a career.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-03-02T09:05:45-05:00

It's a deja' vu all over again...we seem to reinvent the wheel on this issue. We had this argument during the draft...you could carry a weapon and die for your country overseas but you couldn't buy a drink---so the rules were changed. Of course, that was when drinking was the major pass time on post that also raised a lot of $$$ for Rec Services (MWR).

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Mar 2 at 2015 9:11 AM

2015-03-02T09:11:11-05:00

What is it about drinking alcohol that is so darn important??? Why does anyone need to drink alcohol?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 2 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-03-02T11:18:13-05:00

Why have a drinking age at all? What exactly is the point? At what age are you allowed to do stupid stuff?

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Mar 2 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-03-02T12:10:17-05:00

I would allow it, but add rules to keep our people safe. Cars and bars...crashes and bashes. I just don't want more young service members to get injured or killed or destroy their careers from a momentary lapse in judgment. Most 18 year old men (and some women) still need guidance and oversight.

Response by PV2 David Minnicks made Mar 2 at 2015 3:12 PM

2015-03-02T15:12:00-05:00

If this were thirty years ago I think I would have been fine with lowering the drinking age but now I am not so sure. I am of the opinion and belief that the penalties for DUI/DWI need changed where penalties are far more stringent. Back in the day I enlisted and entered active duty at the age of 17 and was stationed both stateside and overseas where I was of legal drinking age to drink beer/near beer and by my 18th birthday was of legal age to drink beer and liquor. Yes, I drank but I did so with more trepidation at this young age due to the fear of what could happen under penalty of UCMJ than if I would have had to wait to legally drink until my 21st birthday. I also feel that I would have been more daring and would have risked penalty for underage drinking if I would have had to wait until my 21st birthday to drink legally. I am of the opinion that the laws are not stringent enough and/or the penalties are not stiff enough to deter individuals from chancing a DUI/DWI. The amount of repeat offenders is staggering even for those who have caused property damage, injury or worse fatalities. Before anybody brings up ignition interlocks I have witnessed individuals defeat these or chance driving others vehicles that have no interlock after partaking of adult beverages. I have no faith in these as a deterrent unless they can be modified in a manner so as not to be defeated and integrated in a manner that you can identify if the individual is behind the wheel or is a passenger. In summary I feel that it would be ideal that the day that you can enlist or could be drafted would be the same day that you would be allowed to drink legally however, with today’s youth I fear that it would actually be harmful to allow this without a deterrent where the penalties would be so severe or where the stigma of being drunk and disorderly or where a DUI/DWI charge would actually impact or influence their decision to only drink responsibly.

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Mar 2 at 2015 4:27 PM

2015-03-02T16:27:50-05:00

You are considered an adult at the age of 18, you can vote, move out, enter in the service, criminal trial as an adult then have a beer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-03-02T16:29:30-05:00

If your old enough to sign a contract, old enough to go to jail, old enough to die for your country, well then you might just be old enough to drink. Just my two cents...

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Mar 2 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-03-02T16:34:49-05:00

If they can die for their country, they damn sure can drink like every other man and woman in uniform...just my thoughts and it never once bothered me to look the other way as an NCO when alcohol was brought into the barracks, if I were active duty I would still practice this regardless of the consequences.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 2 at 2015 4:45 PM

2015-03-02T16:45:40-05:00

We (the US) tried this before. The legal age for drinking was lowered to 18 in many states in the 1970s, influenced in part by the Vietnam experience. The Federal voting age was also lowered to 18. The drinking age was raised to 21 within a few years as a result of Federal pressure (withdrawal of Federal highway funds) and high motor vehicle accident rates for under-21 people driving while under the influence. The problem isn't necessarily Service Members under 21, it's all the other folks. Military members should abide by the laws of the state in which they are stationed as long as they don't conflict with Federal law or the UCMJ.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 5:08 PM

2015-03-02T17:08:19-05:00

An adult is an adult is an adult.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-03-02T17:11:45-05:00

I think it should be allowed, but it'd have to be with open eyes. There will be more issues be it DUIs or fights or whatnot, but the majority would likely be fine. My first station was in Guam where 18+ could drink, and there were more issues in the dorms and off base. Not a lot, but enough to potentially cause issues in the current environment. So if everyone is fine with taking the potential heat I say go for it. It makes sense since folks are not only legally adult at 18 but as mentioned can sign up to die on order. Why can't everyone place one for a beer? Legal adults should be responsible for their actions regardless of what age they are and be allowed the perks therein.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-03-02T17:59:53-05:00

I am a firm believer that if you are 18yrs old and can fight a war for your country and die for it then you should be able to legally drink. Anyone on Active Duty that ever lived in the barracks, there are 18 - 20yr olds in the unit and are told that they aren't allowed to drink off post because it's against the law. If they are going to drink to stay in the barracks and out of sight and don't act stupid in the barracks. You can already legally drink at 18 at some overseas bases and per CO discretion so I mean its even accepted by some CO's.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 7:14 PM

2015-03-02T19:14:11-05:00

I was able to legally drink my senior year in high school. If you drink responsible no problem; if you don't......

My senior year of high school 7 students were killed due to alcohol related car accidents.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-03-02T19:36:20-05:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member I have seen Soldiers who were below 21 that made huge mistakes such as getting married a few days before deployment, spending all their money during deployment and not saving, wasting money on "entertainment", and get into other trouble. While I have seen others have the same issue it seems to be in larger numbers in the junior enlisted who are under 21. I think it could only get worse.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 8:06 PM

2015-03-02T20:06:20-05:00

Just out of curiosity, who is more likely to drink under age. Military member or college student. How many ROTC students have consumed alcohol under age?

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 2 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-03-02T20:48:38-05:00

When I came in, you could drink on base. I have always been troubled with notion that you are old enough to die for your country, but you're not old enough to have a beer. That's crazy.

Further, when overseas, we often had "Beer on the Pier", so the Skipper is drinking a beer with SR (E1 for you non-Navy types) Jones there in France. You get back to the states and Jones has a beer. Now he's at Mast (Art 15) in front of the same Skipper for having the same beer (actually a much weaker one) that he had with the Skipper a month before.

It's very duplicitous...

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 9:01 PM

2015-03-02T21:01:48-05:00

Double standards and privilege are a very slippery slope...

Response by SFC Eric Hendrickson made Mar 2 at 2015 9:47 PM

2015-03-02T21:47:30-05:00

If you are an adult at 18, you should be able to drink, and face the consequences from it as an adult

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 10:17 PM

2015-03-02T22:17:17-05:00

I think we need to drop the drinking age to 16 for everyone... then up the driving age to 21.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Mar 2 at 2015 10:45 PM

2015-03-02T22:45:01-05:00

It should be lowered, if someone can die for their country, they should be allowed to have a drink every now and again. These are Adult Men and Women, they made an Adult decision, and are Man and Woman enough to stand by that. They will understand the ramifications if they do something wrong, whereas their counterparts don't have that understanding. Let them drink, they've earned it...

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-03-02T23:44:02-05:00

I think we have enough problems in the military concerning drinking and underage drinking and quite frankly if we're to hold our members to a higher degree than civilians then at the very least they should be able to function at a degree civilians already operate at. I don't see the need to continue to encourage the drinking culture of the military. I'll be honest with you, as a civilian EMT now, I see far too many drunk vets, with their lives spinning out of control, making frequent trips to the VA Hospital. I don't think we should set a precendent for it. It's a slippery slope.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 4:20 AM

2015-03-03T04:20:44-05:00

It would also be a good idea if they leaned a bit towards ration cards for those under 21 or older, just like they do overseas.

Response by CW2 Eric Scott made Mar 3 at 2015 4:25 AM

2015-03-03T04:25:26-05:00

If you think the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18 for active duty members make sure you're on CQ or BN/BDE staff duty the night it goes into effect. Read the local blotter from post or police and you'll see why this isn't a swell idea. It should be, but isn't.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 8:20 AM

2015-03-03T08:20:19-05:00

I think letting 18 year olds in the military drink would help with some problems. One is that most new recruits find a way to drink anyways, but they try to do it in secret leading to some unsafe drinking habits. Allowing them to drink in the open would allow fellow service members to watch out for them. Also, all the time that is spent prosecuting underage drinkers would be better spent on other troublemakers. I also think that it might be better for morale or team-building if everyone was allowed to celebrate the same way. How many times has it happened where a unit has a function and all the underage Soldiers are tagged as DDs or some other task? Its like they get punished just for being under 21. I have been at a unit going-away where everyone went to a bar/restaurant. We had one underage Soldier and he was told he was welcome at the party but he could not drink. He decided not to go because he felt kinda of left out by being the only one that couldn't drink.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-03-03T08:31:14-05:00

I disagree with lowering the drinking age. We already have enough DUIs in the military. That will just add to it. The people just joining is still getting use to waking up on time without their parents kicking them out of bed.

Response by Lt Col Mark DeVore made Mar 3 at 2015 8:56 AM

2015-03-03T08:56:36-05:00

I was in MD back when the law changed from 21 to 18 so I was grandfathered. I've never seen the sense that at 18 you can vote and carry a weapon in combat but aren't responsible enough to drink. Doesn't make sense.

Response by PO1 David Kazimierczak made Mar 3 at 2015 8:57 AM

2015-03-03T08:57:42-05:00

There are Pro's and Con's to this subject. If you keep the Drinking age at 21 years of age.. You can look at it as it gives the Active Service Member three more years to grow into a more responsible young adult. Where they will make better decisions as they mature. But then if you can Serve our Country at this level at age 18, you should be able to have a drink.. I myself, have been Stationed at certain locations where there was a two Beer limit.. Issue them a Liberty card with a Hole punch system.. The Bartender at the EM-Club on base will punch these cards with the showing of their Military ID-Card. We all know, that young Service Members have made their biggest mistakes at this point in their lives. As NCO'S and Senior Officers, part of our jobs are to ENSURE the young Troopers Safety! To include "LIBERTY CALL"

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-03-03T09:16:18-05:00

My thought is this: I'm in the Guard and only 19 and am going to Afghanistan for a year soon, can't I sit down and drink a beer with my father? Now almost people do it regardless in there own homes, but why not in a bar?

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Mar 3 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-03-03T10:02:04-05:00

Underage service members are going to drink. You know it, I know it, Gunny knows it. We all know it happens all the time, we just turn a blind eye to it until an overzealous duty busts a 19 year old with alcohol. Service members should be allowed to drink regardless of age because, as we know, it already happens (a whole lot, actually) and there's no reason to hand out NJP's to otherwise squared away guys.

Also, let's not pretend like officers and SNCO's don't contribute to the problem by making jokes about drinking a lot on the weekends and such. I don't know about the other branches, but in the Marine Corps, it's almost a cool thing to be a heavy alcoholic, who can drink a fifth of vodka and still show up for PT in the morning. There's a culture of alcohol and testosterone present in the Corps, so how can you expect that none of the underage Marines (which accounts for most of an average battalion) are going to drink?

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-03-03T10:22:39-05:00

We should lower the drinking age to 18, period. It's silly that we tell people "You're an adult...you can vote, serve in the military, sign contracts, get married, own property...except for this one thing over here, we need you to wait three more years for that one".

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made Mar 3 at 2015 10:41 AM

2015-03-03T10:41:14-05:00

lower it to 18 for everyone...an adult is an adult.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 3 at 2015 11:36 AM

2015-03-03T11:36:17-05:00

What? You think someone who has run the gauntlet in defense of their Country should be allowed to have a glass of beer or wine? In my opinion, the 18 year old service member has more right to a drink than a 24 year old civilian who has not contributed anything to this nation.

Response by SSG Buddy Kemper made Mar 3 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-03-03T12:45:54-05:00

We always had the older guys buy for us. Probably wound up paying for ours AND theirs!!! I was such a weenie back in high school. All I'd ever drank was White Mountain wine coolers! Anybody remember those? So on weekend passes AIT and beyond I found Southern Comfort then Budweiser. Life changing and not for the better in some ways. We used to go to NCO or E club...there would be this huge table with beers and whatever all over it....and we'd sneak sips between barmaids walking thru or they'd kick us out!!! The older guys took care of us tho. And seems like we policed our own a bit better back then. If someone got rowdy there were leaders who were around who would make sure it didn't get too out of hand and everyone made it home to the barracks. Wasn't as much Blue Falconry or backstabbing' back then. But maybe I'm just nostalgic for the old days. Blessings to all. AND if ya drink don't drive (do the watermelon crawl). Couldn't help it.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Mar 3 at 2015 12:51 PM

2015-03-03T12:51:09-05:00

While the average 18 year old is by no means mature enough to drink responsibly, I have trouble believing that the average 21 year old is either.

However, my thoughts are that if a person is old enough to vote for our nation's leaders and pull a trigger in defense of his/her nation, then they should be able to legally and responsibly consume alcohol.

Response by SPC Nicholas Cureton made Mar 3 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-03-03T12:57:04-05:00

I am not a drinker, but my opinion echoes that of one of my heroes, my former First Sergeant Caylor, who said, "if you can fight and die for your country, I don't care if you drink". But he did followup with the importance of moderation and not drinking and driving.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Mar 3 at 2015 4:01 PM

2015-03-03T16:01:59-05:00

I'm all for lowering it to 18. I watched a lot of young troops get their careers ended because they went off base to drink and got nailed for DUI. This could have been avoided if they were allowed to drink in their dorms or at the clubs where we can make sure they get home safely -- and isn't that the whole point? People join the military looking for a career, education, service to the nation and adventure. I'm in that group that says "if you are old enough to die, you're old enough to drink." Will troops get stupid sometimes? Of course. That's why God invented First Sergeants. In re General Order #1, that was created to appease Saudi sensibilities in 1991. That was over 20 years ago. No other government in that region cares. Kuwait doesn't care (even though prohibited) because I've run that question up their chain. It is an old rule and needs to go away. When CENTCOM comes to visit the region, they have waivers for their personnel so they can drink in theater (I've had them in our Embassy Bar in Kuwait and wouldn't serve them, hence the waiver they created) so I find it hypocritical to restrict it in theater. I also believe that not allowing the troops to blow off steam or otherwise relieve the tension is a contributing factor to the appalling suicide rate. The men and women who serve so well, under extraordinary pressures, come home with those pressures and they manifest in "binge drinking." If we got rid of GO1 I'm convinced (as a long time Prosecutor/Chief of Military Justice) that we'd see a reduction in those tragic numbers as well as a decrease in other related matters.

Response by SGT William Howell made Mar 3 at 2015 5:45 PM

2015-03-03T17:45:06-05:00

Your old enough to die for this country you are old enough to drink in it!

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Mar 3 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-03-03T18:32:09-05:00

I would support it.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Mar 3 at 2015 7:15 PM

2015-03-03T19:15:04-05:00

Yes, I'm all for Service Members 18 or older being allowed all the privileges/ rights typical of any citizen over the age 21.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 8:45 PM

2015-03-03T20:45:17-05:00

On the surface and in a logical world, it makes perfect sense - if you're old enough to fight and die for your country, you should be able to have a drink... Well, we live in the era of the risk-averse culture, and this mindset influences all aspects of society, especially the military. I once was the one leading the charge railing against this kind of mindset, but I'm either growing older or smarter or both. When you're 18-25 years old, you're invincible - nothing bad is ever going to happen to you; it's always the other guy or gal. Statistically speaking, it probably is. But there's always that chance. And it's not merely an arbitrary number thing. Do you know why car rental companies refuse to rent to anyone under the age of 25? It is because the cerebral cortex - the portion of the brain that regulates decision-making and impulse control - is not fully developed until the age of 25. With that in mind, I think we're damned lucky we get a drink at 21 the way it is! I don't see a change coming anytime soon, regardless of Military Status.

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Mar 3 at 2015 10:49 PM

2015-03-03T22:49:01-05:00

When I was 18 in 1983 the legal drinking age was 18 to 21 depending on what state you were in. Back then we still had e-clubs and on base you could drink at 18. However, the town I was stationed in the drinking age was 21 so what was happening sailors were drinking on base and the driving off base and getting not only DWI's but also under age drinking charges. I think that the drinking age should be 18 don't get me wrong but it is a problem if it is not across the board.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 3:40 AM

2015-03-04T03:40:22-05:00

I am old enough to have seen BEFORE the drinking age was raised to 21. There was not complete chaos and pandemonium when the drinking age was 18, and I would wager there won't be if it is lowered back to 18.

I am totally behind US Servicemembers being allowed to drink at 18. If you can enlist, get shipped to some 3rd world sh*thole and get shot at, you should be able to have a beer legally.

Response by SPC Lukas Jones made Mar 4 at 2015 3:48 AM

2015-03-04T03:48:52-05:00

I honestly think that this should not be condoned. Service members would not be able to purchase alcohol on post/base/camp/station which would force them to procure such beverages from civilian sources. This could logically increase the number of DUIs as privates drive off post to a bar, drink, then drive back to the barracks to get some sleep before reporting for duty in the morning.

Now, devil's advocate talking, there are soldiers who enter the military who show a particular maturity and responsibility that could understand the added privilege and be responsible. However, I do know some over the legal age that should not partake as they drink to excess and their performance in their duties becomes less than adequate.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-03-04T10:49:02-05:00

It should be lowered to 18 years old and it should be lowered for everyone. We call you an adult at 18, then you should be allowed to buy a drink.

Response by SSG Paul Lanciault made Mar 4 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-03-04T13:06:19-05:00

I feel service members should be able to drink on base. Off base you follow the laws of the state or country you serve in. We don't have to like it. But if the military wants you to serve, I think its reasonable to drink on base.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-03-04T13:13:29-05:00

Old enough to get shot... old enough to take a shot...

Response by SSG Robert Blum made Mar 4 at 2015 2:32 PM

2015-03-04T14:32:01-05:00

There are great points that support both sides of this issue. I'll start by saying that at the age of 18 I was stationed in Kaiserslautern Gm. We all drank regularly, however 90% of us"Young Privates" did not have a car, and we as a group were extremely close and went out in large numbers 5 or more, and we kept each other out of trouble. My next point comes from my time at Fort Bliss. From 2005 until sometime in 2009 it was legal ONPOST, it was a matter of post policy that if you were under 18 you could buy, and consume on post. If you left the post intoxicated EPD could charge you with underage consumption. As the base began to grow, a new trend also started growing, Soldiers under 21 drinking and driving, more than 15 never made it to their destination, instead the families were notified that their son or daughter was drinking and driving and was killed in a traffic accident.
Let's face it most of us join at 18, by the time your 21 your experience in the Army has matured you, and you start thinking more about the consequences of your actions. A few years ago, I was all about the right for those serving their country to drink. After seeing the drastic reduction in DUIs and fatal traffic accidents in and around Fort Bliss when the policy changed, and the reduction in alcohol related incidents when my commander in Germany implimented his policy letter raising the units drinking age to 21 in 2013. I say let the Soldiers Mature and gain more responsibility. Keep it at 21, I hope I never have to see another 18-20 year old dead because they were not responsible/mature enough to handle alcohol.

Response by SSgt Tim Ricci made Mar 4 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-03-04T14:34:28-05:00

I will say, that everybody should be able to enjoy drink at 18 years of age!

Response by SGM Reginald Thompson made Mar 4 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-03-04T18:32:54-05:00

I do not drink myself, but I do not see why they are not allowed to drink under 21 (I know it's the Law), but we allow them to go off to War and be stationed all over the world. Some of the other Countries that they are asked to live in are allowed to drink under 18 (ex: Europe).

Response by MSgt Edward Scott made Mar 4 at 2015 8:55 PM

2015-03-04T20:55:36-05:00

Very old school. I completely agree that a service member can give the ultimate sacrifice, but cant have drinks on base. When I served on the Airmans advisory comittee on 2 AFB's I was assigned to back in the 80's, that was my selling point to the Senior Staff and Base Commander. Ultimately, they agreed with me, changed the policy and my arrests on base for DUI, Public Intox plumetted. Get the Base Senior Enlisted Advisors involved and spurr this initiative. Be Safe Ladies & Gentleman, and Thank You for Serving Our Country.

Response by PO3 Dubhiolar Maclemorrioghan made Mar 4 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-03-04T23:16:28-05:00

As a Seaman Apprentice, I Started Drinking Heavily in 1971. I Still Drink TOO Much. The Services Need to Monitor Extra Curricular Activities of Young Personnel and Counsel as Necessary, But if You're Old Enough to Die for Your Country, You're Old Enough to Have Regrets, and Memories of Good Times.

Response by HN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 8:05 AM

2015-03-05T08:05:40-05:00

Theres 2 ways i see this.
#1, I love this idea. If you can serve your country you should be able to have a beer and drink with friends. How is it that i can ruin my body by smoking, die for my country by joining the military and yet not be able to have a beer at a bar because i'm not old enough??? Makes no sense.
#2, As much as i love the idea there is a big downside...We will start having a few people join just so they can start drinking earlier, it'll decrease productivity and SEVERELY increase NJP's. Also from experience i'm glad the drinking age is where it is. i know i wasn't mature enough to handle drinking at 18 when i had joined. That combined with the completely different change of lifestyle could've ruined me. When you have a big change in your life going from civilian life to military adding alchohol into the mix isn't going to be a good idea because of the fact that they are young and want to party and be and do stupid things. Now i'm mainly thinking of the new people to the military that this could cause a problem too.

Overall i think it might be a good idea to test this theory out on a small but decent portion of the military and see how it goes. But make sure that it is in the U.S.A. its never a good idea to try a new policy on foreign soil.

my 2 cents

Response by MSG Tyrone Sterling made Mar 5 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-03-05T14:49:31-05:00

Jennifer,
I am in full support of reducing the legal drinking age of active duty service members. However, I would put a restriction on the proposal. For example, he or she may only be allowed to buy and or drink alcoholic beverages on his or here's base. Active duty service members under the age of 21 is more mature than their civilian counterparts. For instance a 19 year old tank driver in the Army is (in most cases) more mature than a 19 year old still living at hone with his parents.

Response by SPC Patrick Gearardo made Mar 8 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-03-08T11:11:04-04:00

First off, I'm ALL for lowering the drinking age for military men and women. I could drink my ass off in Germany, but when I went home, I couldn't drink.

The question is, 'Can an 18 - 20 year old HANDLE being able to drink?' From MY experience, no.

How many youtube video's are out there now showing drunk kids doing stupid things? Quite a few.
When I was in, we didn't have internet, but IF we did, I'm sure I would be on one of those youtube videos.

But, the first time you got drunk at 21...would it be any different than at 18? I think not, you're still a young adult at both ages.
Anything could become an issue. Right now, there's always some sort of blame...alcohol, guns, politicians, pot, not wearing condoms, whatever.

I say drink......BUT, be ready to handle the consequences of YOUR actions. The same at age 18 or 43.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2015 6:28 PM

2015-03-08T18:28:32-04:00

If you are old enough to lay your life on the line for your country, you should be able to enjoy an adult beverage.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-03-09T10:55:28-04:00

I can see things going in either direction here. On one hand, they're able to drink with the older personnel and bond better as a unit while off duty while raising their personal morale, but I also see the maturity level and knowing when to stop (although I've seen guys in their 40's less mature than an 18 year old). If I had a say, it should be 18 all around, not just for service members.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 11:02 AM

2015-03-09T11:02:41-04:00

Alcohol is a neurotoxin. There is a difference between an 18 year old and a 21 year old. The brain is still developing. We don't let 18 year olds go out for Special Forces. There is a difference in maturity between 18 and 20. Let them grow and develop. Alcohol impairs judgement.
From CDC...
•More than half of all active duty military personnel report binge drinking in the past month, and young adult service members exposed to combat are at significantly greater risk of binge drinking than older service members.

•The Task Force on Community Preventive Services recommends implementing and maintaining an age 21 minimum legal drinking age (MLDA) based on strong evidence of effectiveness, including a median 16% decline in motor vehicle crashes among underage youth in states that increased the legal drinking age to 21 years.

•Age 21 MLDA laws result in lower levels of alcohol consumption among young adults age 21 years and older as well as those less than age 21 years

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-03-09T11:34:40-04:00

I can see why this would be and has been in debate since forever! On one hand I think you'd tend to agree with the old saying as a service member, but on the other hand you've got to think about the over all consequences that come along with alcohol consumption. Initially we'd probably have to go through more training than we already do, just to further educate the troopers. I believe that some of the common questions would be whether or not the soldierervice member is mature enough to make mature based decisions while under the influence, such as having enough self control to not drink and drive; but then again there have been plenty of older service members who have made the same decisions. If they did do this, would we have an abundance more service members attending ASAP or would we see less because it's been legallized at a younger age? I think that whether they lower the legal drinking age or keep it the same, we will see an 'on-going' debate about changing the legal age alcohol consumption.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 11:38 AM

2015-03-09T11:38:25-04:00

Just a question. If an 18 year old is the same as a 20 or 21 year old, why can't 18 year olds go out for Special Forces? Is it because of their maturity level and developing brains?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-03-09T14:41:46-04:00

From a different point of view. (I'm sure many NCO's can agree) - A majority of the younger soldiers live in the barracks on post. Regulating soldiers alcohol is hard enough when they're of legal age.. Now we'll have EVERY soldier, legal to drink.. It'll be a disaster...

Response by SPC John Decker made Mar 9 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-03-09T15:49:27-04:00

when I was in (81-84), we could drink on base no matter what our age. More often than not, if in uniform, we could drink off base, even if the age in that state was higher. I don't remember ever hearing about alcohol related problems because of that policy.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 9 at 2015 7:44 PM

2015-03-09T19:44:59-04:00

Got no problem at all...heck back in my day we could legally drink CONUS at 17 when I entered.. we also could have 2 beer at lunch time till 1984....man those were some fun days, too bad political correctness has taken over the army. back then we went out fot Wars came back and got a drink on. Man it was fun

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-03-09T21:29:30-04:00

Well with me being underage many may think i would say to lower it. I really wouldn't want to because a lot of under aged drinkers can handle alcohol anyway but they still drink.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2015 2:58 AM

2015-03-10T02:58:54-04:00

I gotta say, I'm on the fence concerning this issue. I see that many are saying, old enough to serve should be old enough to drink. I get it. Sure, that's fine and dandy on paper, but what about in reality when safety brief formations have to be a half hour longer (think about that July sun beating down on you) because the commander, 1SG, or CSM has to reiterate the dangers of excessive drinking, drinking and driving, SHARP issues, looking out for battle buddies, etc? What about the never ending mandatory training every quarter. Those will get longer, too. And everyone's favorite...the online training. Yep, another half dozen slides added on (or more), just so our 18 year olds can (legally) drink.

Even if you limit it to on post, it's going to spill off post. At 18, they'll simply think, "Hey, I'll get tore up ON post, then head off post with my buzz (via taxi or sober DD battle buddy)!" Then they'll go off post and do something dumb, and the 2am phone call chain starts.

What's likely to happen when a drunk 18 year old starts interacting with other drunk 18 year olds? Of the opposite sex?

What's likely to happen when a military 18-year old starts buying beer for a civilian 18-year old, and he/she does something dumb? Who's 'responsible'?

What happens when a drunk 18 year old plows his new Mustang into a soccer mom's mini-van?

Some of you are thinking, "Oh, you're going by worse case scenario." Maybe. But we all know these will eventually happen.

99% of them will probably do the right thing with this (OK, maybe 90%). It's that 1(to 10)% that's going to muck things up for everybody.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Cuthbertson made Mar 12 at 2015 4:39 PM

2015-03-12T16:39:42-04:00

I did so why not.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Mar 13 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-03-13T12:57:52-04:00

Here is my issue with this. I will give it to you two different ways. One as a PLT SGT and the other as a civilian.

PLT SGT........ This has to stop. If we lower the drinking age for active duty SM then we just need to lower the drinking age to 18 for everyone. We have SM's now with drinking issues as it is. Sexual crimes will increase, people not taking responsibly for their actions will increase. AWOLS will go up and so will DOD (Drunk on Duty). We need to look at this with bigger eyes. Yes I used to say that same thing that if your old enough to die for your country then your old enough to drink. I now see the errors of my ways. I was 18 when I first joined the Army and hated every minute of it. Now that I have 14 years of service and can look back at what I have seen and done I now Know that this is not something that we should be doing.

I see that 41% of people that have answered this say they do not see this as a big deal. My question is now what are the ages and ranks of the people answering this. I recommend doing a new survey and add age and rank blocks as well so we can get the true incite to this. If we are getting 41% and they are all under 21 years of age then these numbers and not great. If its all people over the age of 21 we may have something that we need to look at. Also rank plays a huge part in this. If we are looking at the 41% as all being all lower enlisted again the numbers are going to be bad.

As a civilian........ I think that if we lower the drinking age to 18 for active duty only what happens to the Guard and Reserve? Why are we only going to do this for our active duty SM's when there are so many Guard and Reserve troops out there. This would be a great way for the military to bring numbers in due to the drinking age being lower but is that really the type of people that you want to be bringing into the military?

Just my food for thought. Like if you agree.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Mar 13 at 2015 2:13 PM

2015-03-13T14:13:14-04:00

I honestly believe it to be an educational and mentorship issue for responsible consumption. There are those who have a genetic pre-disposition that will create abusive consumption, but I honestly feel that unit officer and NCO calls were just that, mentorship and taking care of those we serve with. The youth not having face to face with NCOs and Officers in a environment that is controlled, yet free to socialize is part of the issue these days with folks getting into trouble in places where they should not be. Trust is gained through social interaction with knocking off the dust from the work week in my opinion. Political correctness with regard to alcohol and military life has taken the cultural mystique and perception of the wild days and still allowed it to be public perception. Only if the public realized how sterile formation and socialization is these days in the services. Media exacerbates the issue with only the negative affects of alcohol and the military. My dad allowed alcohol consumption (legal in Florida in the 70s) with adult supervision. He taught responsibility and consequences. Other nations worldwide don't have legal drinking ages as it is a part of the dinner table setting. It is my opinion that we should lower it.

Response by A1C Gregory Beckham made Mar 16 at 2015 4:36 AM

2015-03-16T04:36:11-04:00

It's been said by many, Maturity is not based on age. I grew a little bit each time I failed to recognize my drinking limit. It is a very humbling experience making a fool of yourself and doing damage control for your peers and superiors. It's better to get it out of the way before you're 21 and they expect you to magically be a better person based on age... Apparently, being over 21 keeps you from driving drunk, being dis-orderly, and or otherwise, any other debauchery that may bring dishonor to yourself and family name.

Since this is the internet, I'm emotionally prepared for any and all criticisms to my post. Let it be known; I will not respond. Not out of fear or lack of argument, but I respect opinions from all kinds, and maybe, just maybe... being silent is the way to learn something.

Thank you.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Mar 16 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-03-16T08:30:06-04:00

Why does the age need to be lowered? Most 21 year olds are not mature enough to handle drinking at that age. What makes you think an 18 year old will do any better. I am 35 and didn't start drinking until I was 30.

If you are going to drink you need to be mature about it. I love to drink beer don't get me wrong but I also know when to stop.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Mar 16 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-03-16T08:58:05-04:00

In Texas back when I was way younger, in the 1970ies, it was legal to buy a six pick and drink one on your way home. Cops would only pull you over if you were weaving. Today's zero tolerance 0.08 ( whatever it is), makes everybody a drunk driver. You use mouthwash you pass dui. So until that is corrected no sense in lowering the age limit. Americans have lost so many rights since I was growing up. Todays America has so many rules n regulations everybody is a felon if they look at you long enough. Any little mistake and you are a bonified felon. All you need is for someone in authority to choose who am I gonna get today, or his boss to say your quota is down as you pass by.

Response by SPC Stacey Fetters made Mar 16 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-03-16T09:05:57-04:00

If you can fight for this country and you sacrifice for this country then I believe you should be allowed to have a beer or two.

Response by TSgt Joshua Lynch made Mar 16 at 2015 9:21 AM

2015-03-16T09:21:17-04:00

So now people are going to join for the right to drink at a young age; can you see the headlines now? Rise in recruiting due to lower drinking age, members not joining for the right reasons.

Response by SPC David Thompson made Mar 18 at 2015 7:54 AM

2015-03-18T07:54:55-04:00

I dont have a problem with anyone who signs on the line and wants to have a beer. I would however restrict them to post until 21 years old. Imagine the havoc that could be created off post with a bunch of 18+ full of bravado, testosterone and alcohol. There is a belief that in the military you train hard and drink hard. Even though its not true, I have seen it many times a recruit fresh out of basic, feeling cock-sure about himself, who believes he has an image to uphold being a hard drinking soldier. Confine the under 21 drinking to post/barracks.

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Mar 18 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-03-18T14:06:57-04:00

If you are old enough to vote for the leader of the free world, if you are old enough to take a bullet for your country, than you are old enough to take a shot in your country.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-03-18T18:45:06-04:00

If you are old enough to volunteer to lay your life down for your country, I believe that you should be old enough to drink the "thank you" that someone gives you. I don't think that this needs to extend outside of the military though. Obviously, this can become a potential issue but so can every other thing that you do in the military. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that in order for you be able to enjoy your drink, and you are under 21, you have to wear a PT belt.

Response by SPC Steven Garcia made Mar 18 at 2015 10:18 PM

2015-03-18T22:18:28-04:00

Somehow underage soldiers find a way of getting their hands on alcohol.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2015 2:05 AM

2015-03-19T02:05:02-04:00

- Boost the BOSS program on base by adding more activities and cheaper alcohol on post as an incentive for service members to want to stay on post.

- Offer a free taxi / transit system on post (Lots of them)

- Allow service members under the age of 21 to drink on post and on post only. Soldiers caught off base under age drinking will face UCMJ actions and lose on post drinking privileges.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Mar 23 at 2015 2:14 PM

2015-03-23T14:14:05-04:00

I am going to take exception to something I see in this discussion. The argument that if you are old enough to fight for your country you are old enough to drink. That was a solid argument in the days of the draft when you had no choice. Not such a strong argument today with the totally voluntary military. If you are forced to fight, then you should be able to have a drink. If you are volunteering, that doesn't mean you should be able to drink.

Not going for or against it with this post, just saying that this argument is pretty much null and void.

Response by Sgt Kyle Danning made Mar 26 at 2015 8:40 AM

2015-03-26T08:40:22-04:00

Regardless if we lower it or keep it the same, underage drinking will always be an issue. It's the irresponsible ones that make it worse for everyone.

If we were to lower the drinking age on base, not to 18, but maybe 19, it might be a little different. This way, the younger ones can enjoy a cold one while on base, and want to stay on base because it is legal for them. Possible checkpoints for those leaving the base, let's say 1900 or Colors in the evening, where everyone is getting checked before leaving. It sounds ridiculous, but I believe it would keep those who are younger who have been drinking on base, will not be allowed to leave to continue drinking elsewhere.

NCO's can police their subordinates by having them check in with the duty stating they are going to have a few beers on base, and check back in when they are done for the night.

If military members can fight for their country, and have the possibility to drink at a younger age, I believe they won't mind going through the proper procedures such as checking in, and staying on base so that they can enjoy a cold one with their comrades. It's a price to pay until they are 21, but at least they still "win" and get the chance to drink at an early age. Besides, even the local taverns/clubs on base can monitor how much is given to them. I don't think it would be too hard to come up with a system that would work to keep military members out of trouble, away from behind the wheel when they do decide to drink. Better on base than off really.

Response by PO2 David Hagwood made Mar 28 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-03-28T23:29:39-04:00

I'm not a big drinker; but how could you tell someone who's old enough to put their life on the line that they aren't allowed to drink alcohol. I get it that people who are older tend to make wiser decisions; but that's like telling everyone they have to wear a diaper because someone crapped themselves. If you don't see someone mature enough to drink at the age of 18, then maybe the age of enlistment should be raised, too.

Response by PO1 Jeff Doan made Mar 29 at 2015 11:21 PM

2015-03-29T23:21:59-04:00

I AM RETIRED FROM THE POST-VIETNAM ERA MILITARY. If an individual is old enough to be drafted ( or required to register for the "Selective Services"), or voluntarily enlist in the military. If he (or she) is old enough to vote, be tried as an adult, pay taxes, purchase a vehicle ( or other property) enter into a legally binding contract......he (or she) should be able to buy a beer! What is the argument? Either they are adult...or they aren't! Drinking age at 21? Draft at 21? Contractually liable 21? Vote for president and/or congress (not to mention the laws that we are debating) at 21? Maybe they should stay home with momma and daddy until they're 30 o rso! No stress ... no decisions...not problem!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2015 11:31 PM

2015-03-29T23:31:44-04:00

Young People find a way regardless of the law.
I believe that they should be able to drink. Of course they need to accept the punishment that comes with abusing alcohol.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 1 at 2015 8:36 PM

2015-04-01T20:36:21-04:00

Drinking alcohol is not about age but responsibility and having the maturity to exercise that responsibility.

Response by CPT Robert Louthan made Apr 1 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-04-01T21:09:02-04:00

I believe the national drinking age should be set at 18 years of age. The federal government tied setting it to 21 to transportation funding and that forced states to raise the age. Well intended, the thought was raising the drinking age would affect drunk driving. Could not have been more wrong. It did, however, become a big revenue generator (follow the money).

We live in Virginia, and we have had recent high profile incidents with enforcement of drinking age restrictions that are ridiculous and a waste of time. Giving tickets to underage drinkers on college campuses "is like giving speeding tickets at the Indy 500," to paraphrase Martin Sheen in "Apocalypse Now."

I have been out for a while, but I imagine the impact of underage drinking is worse for a Soldier, Sailor or Marine.

Focus effort on the abuse and misuse of alcohol, not on the age of a user.

Response by PO3 Jordan Davis made Jun 15 at 2015 1:07 AM

2015-06-15T01:07:16-04:00

I'd be cool with it.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 15 at 2015 1:44 AM

2015-06-15T01:44:40-04:00

OK, history time. In the early 70's, sailors would pile out of Great Lakes and hop the train up to Racine, Wisconsin as the age there was 18. So many got blitzed every weekend, the last train had coaches set aside for all the puking sailors. Shore patrol shoveled them on.

Military interests are to keep it's members alive and have generally pushed drinking 3.2 on base where you could get into less trouble. There have been restrictions of no beer in the barracks for E-3 and below. Lots of policies, age restrictions, etc. have come and gone, just like this one.

If you look at Germany, you can drink beer at 16 and hard stuff at 18. My German exchange student would tell us stories of friends that climb into a beer keg all weekend and soon were no longer his friends.

Bottom line, whatever you select for an enforceable policy, be prepared to manage it and it's consequences.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2015 8:45 AM

2015-06-15T08:45:11-04:00

I believe its time to at least give it a try. We should put the bill on the ballot and see what the country thinks. The change to 21 spread from state to state as the bandwagon effect took hold. Perhaps it can go away in the same manner.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 19 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-06-19T18:51:47-04:00

It's an issue, it will lead to more drinking and driving, also the human liver isnt' filly developed till into the 20s.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-06-19T19:11:15-04:00

Old enough to die for your country, should mean your old enough to have a beer when your off duty.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-06-19T20:34:35-04:00

If you can go to war and die for your country...you should be allowed to drink.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Jun 26 at 2015 5:50 AM

2015-06-26T05:50:54-04:00

I always thought that if you're old enough to go to war, you're old enough to drink.

Response by PO1 Henry Sherrill made Jun 26 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-06-26T10:17:16-04:00

I would vote for it. Mainly because if a person is old enough to fight for their country they should be able to imbibe in some adult libations.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 5:34 PM

2015-07-24T17:34:16-04:00

Most young service member can barely handle day to day life. Not saying all are bad or "stupid" but alcohol will change a person and it can hurt a persons career early on. if it is allowed to happen then even more people will be drinking thus creating a larger probability of incident.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 7:13 PM

2015-07-24T19:13:44-04:00

My problem with it is that at 18 the human brain is still in a developing stage, and in that stage it's far easier for an addiction to take hold. Alcoholism is already an issue in the military and I'd hate to see it hit an even younger generation.