What are your thoughts on service members staying indoors to avoid saluting the Flag during Retreat?

2014-12-25T23:16:48-05:00

There were times I would be making my way outside and notice subordinates or peers at the door waiting for Retreat to finish playing before exiting the building. I find this avoiding behavior to be disrespectful. After making my way past them and saluted the Flag, I had a discussion (ended up being one-way) with those service members about the importance of paying respect to the Flag during Retreat. I believe it is something we should be proud and honored to do.

What would you do if your caught your peers or troop(s) waiting inside?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 9:30 AM

2014-12-26T09:30:10-05:00

I agree mainly, Maj Private RallyPoint Member, but if Retreat is already playing, is it maybe just as respectful to wait until it stops to exit the building? I'm seriously asking, because I don't exactly know. If I heard Retreat playing and I were inside a building, headed out, I would probably wait until it finished to exit, which I would count as being respectful and non-disruptive.

There's another topic on RallyPoint where this point is touched on. (https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-do-you-think-of-a-soldier-who-won-t-salute-the-flag) One of the posts under that discussion thread talks about Soldiers avoiding Retreat, waiting for a while *before* Retreat starts playing to exit the building, so they don't have to stop and salute the flag. That is either disrespectful or lazy, probably both.

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Response by COL Ted Mc made Dec 26 at 2014 2:46 PM

2014-12-26T14:46:41-05:00

If I was outside and wearing headgear - face the flag (you know damn well where it is even if you can't see it) and salute. If I was outside and not wearing headgear - face the flag and stand to attention. If I was indoors face the flag and stand to attention.

In no case walk about, smoke, and/or chat with your neighbour.

Now let me tell you about "Anthem Runners" ...

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Dec 27 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-12-27T12:39:14-05:00

LOL,
I used to round them and send them outside in order to "give them the maximum opportunity to perfect their military salute under less than perfect circumstances".

I'm still very proud to be an American, and it is something I instilled in my soldiers at every opportunity I was offered.

Response by MSgt Jim Pollock made Dec 30 at 2014 5:36 AM

2014-12-30T05:36:45-05:00

The correct answer is that where there is an opportunity to honor the flag, you take it. On most installations that's twice a day... at most.

Clearly there are exceptions as mentioned above. The litmus test in my mind is doing whatever is most respectful. if you need to act like a keystone cop or create a distraction to respect the flag...stay where you are. Defensible judgment is key.

Deliberately ducking honors is reprehensible. I've seen it more often than I'd like to admit. Thirty seconds of your day isn't much to ask to reflect on why you do this job.

I don't think that most honors "duckers" mean to be disrespectful. Over time, reveille and retreat become routine and perhaps "annoying". When that happens, its a leader's job to provide remedial training regarding the meaning of service.

My humble opinion.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-01-15T11:19:10-05:00

Occasionally missing Colors is understandable, but going out of your way to void rendering honors to the Flag? Maybe they should rethink their career choice...

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jan 15 at 2015 11:29 AM

2015-01-15T11:29:51-05:00

Honoring and defending the flag. Two things that should be in every Soldier's mind everyday and all the time.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 21 at 2015 6:52 PM

2015-01-21T18:52:11-05:00

Eh, I think if you're already inside waiting for it to be over is like not walking in on a ceremony. If you're outside running to get inside is ridiculous.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2015 8:01 AM

2015-10-10T08:01:57-04:00

I can understand if it had already started and they choose to wait until it is over to go outside. On the other hand, intentionally staying inside to avoid doing the right thing definitely needs intervention. Doesn't have to be an NCO, Officer or even military at all to make that correction on the spot. I don't have any love for disrespectful service members purposely avoiding retreat.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 4 at 2016 2:42 PM

2016-01-04T14:42:35-05:00

My thoughts are that these individuals need to reflect on why they serve at all? This type of behavior is a hot button for me and I find it disgusting. When someone steps back in or waits inside so they don't get "caught" on the way to their car so they don't have to render proper customs and courtesies to the very symbols of what we are fighting for...unbelievable. I believe I would have had a one way as well. I could not wait to get outside to salute my flag and anthem...always reinforced in me what we have in common. We may disagree on a lot of things and the methods to get the mission done but we all swore an oath and that is universal across all of us. Get out if you don't want to salute the very flag you serve under!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 2 at 2016 7:16 AM

2016-05-02T07:16:22-04:00

If you're at the door and you can hear Retreat, go to attention. Render honors as best you can. You don't need to step outside. When Retreat is finished, carry on as normal. Just because you can't see the Flag doesn't mean you don't render honors. Yes, being inside means that you conduct work as normal. But "waiting" is not working.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made May 22 at 2016 1:41 AM

2016-05-22T01:41:44-04:00

I have never dodged a salute in my life. In fact, I have altered my direction of march to ensure that an officer KNEW that I wasn't about to dodge a military courtesy. Pomp and circumstance aren't my thing, but any officer within 6 paces WILL get their courtesy and they, in turn WILL acknowledge me as a Professional Soldier.

However, common sense and logic do have a place. At Fort Bliss, we stood at attention indoors for both. Nowhere else have I seen it done this way. Fort Hood stopped traffic and everyone exits their vehicles and renders a hand salute. Cool. Fort Bragg? If you're outdoors: salute. If not, don't. The Garrison commander sets policy, not me, so the first step in enforcing the policy is figuring out what to enforce.

Would one standard across DoD work? Sure, I guess, but until that time comes, I enforce the local standard.

Response by SSG Lisa Wright made Jan 29 at 2020 9:39 PM

2020-01-29T21:39:33-05:00

Recently when I was at Ft. Eustis, I was sitting inside my car getting ready to leave for home at the end of a drill weekend. (I'd been fighting a migraine the whole weekend and even had to use a walking stick for a little while to keep from tipping over due to the accompanying vertigo.) I started the car and turned on my music as always. Then, I thought I heard something different playing so I turned down my radio, and Retreat was sounding! I immediately turned off my car, replaced my patrol cap, dismounted the vehicle, and rendered the hand salute in the direction of the music (could not see a flag) until Retreat and To the Color ended. As I was getting back into my vehicle, I was thinking I'd done pretty well for remembering everything as a Reservist who doesn't hear it regularly and while fighting "migraine brain" (which causes severe confusion). Then I saw one of the guys in my unit still just sitting in his car, having never moved, and it made me wonder if I'd messed up. I'm still pretty sure I was supposed to stop what I was doing and salute (and I'm a 42R so I definitely recognize those bugle calls - and others), but I couldn't help wondering when I was the only one who did anything.