Posted on May 2, 2024
What are your thoughts on the silence and lack of leadership from the White House and multiple Governor’s mansions at the college unrest?
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Multiple instances of violence sweep across American campuses and leaders at the Highest state and local levels are silent
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Political Opinions
Political Opinions
Posted 7 mo ago
Responses: 6
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1SG (Join to see), Depends on the university really.
I expect the Federal government to be silent on the issue. Protests are lawful exercises of free speech regardless of what their message is. People complain about Pro-life demonstrations that depict massive pictures of aborted babies on college campuses, yet I support them.
For state universities, I would expect Governors and State legislators to ensure that universities are coordinating with the groups to protect constitutional rights, but also protect the institution and students from violence and unlawful activity.
For Private institutions, I could not care less. Students accept that Private institutions are private and the rules apply or don't apply at the whim of the administration. They don't have to like it, but life is about the choices we make.
The issue becomes where on campus is such speech acceptable? Many universities have strict rules on when and where a protest can be organized, but deviations from the rules and permits really don't carry a whole lot of punishment in some cases if no actual laws are broken.
For these particular protests, there is whole lot of nuance that is missed when considering a response. Some are calling for the NG to come hose them off campus, arrest them, maybe even beat them; but for what, overstaying a permitted protest or saying something we don't like?
They are being accused of supporting terrorism (Hamas), for supporting genocide of Israelis. I would agree that such protests are distasteful and if they cross the line of advocating for violence, they should be booted and expelled. But the truth is that there is definitely a mix. Some empathize with the plight of Palestinians and are anti-Zionism. This does not make them antisemitic. This does not mean they support Hamas or terrorism, no matter the logic we use. Some are saying this is the evolution of Marxist indoctrination at College campuses. People have been saying that for years. We don't have a stronger communist party than in the 60s when it was popular to label people that way.
The critique of Israeli policy and practice towards the Palestinian people is an academic conversation and should probably happen in a classroom as well as the public space, but when every attempt to have that conversation is met with accusations of antisemitism and charges of Nazism, the frustration with the situation boils over and their perception becomes that the U.S. tacitly supports everything Israel is doing. Not that some people don't think that Israel should just push their border to the sea.
For me, I care about defending the rights of Americans to say the things that need to be said, whether I like them or not. I am concerned about the U.S.'s place in the global space. I just don't care enough to spend a day carrying a sign with some overly simple slogan on it that most people will misinterpret. However, I care when other people think they have the moral high ground to get in the way of other Americans' ability to do that.
I expect the Federal government to be silent on the issue. Protests are lawful exercises of free speech regardless of what their message is. People complain about Pro-life demonstrations that depict massive pictures of aborted babies on college campuses, yet I support them.
For state universities, I would expect Governors and State legislators to ensure that universities are coordinating with the groups to protect constitutional rights, but also protect the institution and students from violence and unlawful activity.
For Private institutions, I could not care less. Students accept that Private institutions are private and the rules apply or don't apply at the whim of the administration. They don't have to like it, but life is about the choices we make.
The issue becomes where on campus is such speech acceptable? Many universities have strict rules on when and where a protest can be organized, but deviations from the rules and permits really don't carry a whole lot of punishment in some cases if no actual laws are broken.
For these particular protests, there is whole lot of nuance that is missed when considering a response. Some are calling for the NG to come hose them off campus, arrest them, maybe even beat them; but for what, overstaying a permitted protest or saying something we don't like?
They are being accused of supporting terrorism (Hamas), for supporting genocide of Israelis. I would agree that such protests are distasteful and if they cross the line of advocating for violence, they should be booted and expelled. But the truth is that there is definitely a mix. Some empathize with the plight of Palestinians and are anti-Zionism. This does not make them antisemitic. This does not mean they support Hamas or terrorism, no matter the logic we use. Some are saying this is the evolution of Marxist indoctrination at College campuses. People have been saying that for years. We don't have a stronger communist party than in the 60s when it was popular to label people that way.
The critique of Israeli policy and practice towards the Palestinian people is an academic conversation and should probably happen in a classroom as well as the public space, but when every attempt to have that conversation is met with accusations of antisemitism and charges of Nazism, the frustration with the situation boils over and their perception becomes that the U.S. tacitly supports everything Israel is doing. Not that some people don't think that Israel should just push their border to the sea.
For me, I care about defending the rights of Americans to say the things that need to be said, whether I like them or not. I am concerned about the U.S.'s place in the global space. I just don't care enough to spend a day carrying a sign with some overly simple slogan on it that most people will misinterpret. However, I care when other people think they have the moral high ground to get in the way of other Americans' ability to do that.
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1SG (Join to see)
But haven’t we moved past the discussion of Palestine and into the what level of interruption of higher learning, blocking access to and forcefully seizing buildings and areas is acceptable and doesn’t that require leadership from the highest levels?
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CSM William Everroad
1SG (Join to see) - Each university has its own rules for protests and when to engage force and what lines cannot be crossed. So I would not agree that the situation requires federal involvement.
USF cleared out their protestors and arrested anyone who broke the law.
UCLA dispersed their crowd today.
GWU is asking for MPD help to end their protests after it became clear that they couldn't sort out the lawful protestors from the ones breaking laws and school policy.
Seems like each university is handling the issue according their own playbooks.
My question to you becomes, why do you see the need for any further involvement from others?
USF cleared out their protestors and arrested anyone who broke the law.
UCLA dispersed their crowd today.
GWU is asking for MPD help to end their protests after it became clear that they couldn't sort out the lawful protestors from the ones breaking laws and school policy.
Seems like each university is handling the issue according their own playbooks.
My question to you becomes, why do you see the need for any further involvement from others?
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1SG (Join to see)
CSM William Everroad I served 2 terms as an elected official in TN and there were so many times all people wanted was reassurance from its senior elected officials. President Biden’s words today were spot on but given on Day 1 would have given University Presidents a frame of reference.
IMHO the Universities without strong leadership have floundered and I disagree with your statement about universities handling with their own playbook.
Thanks for engaging. I love a platform where we can engage respectfully without someone going off the rails just because opinions differ.
IMHO the Universities without strong leadership have floundered and I disagree with your statement about universities handling with their own playbook.
Thanks for engaging. I love a platform where we can engage respectfully without someone going off the rails just because opinions differ.
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CSM William Everroad
1SG (Join to see), I agree that the administration should show leadership in times of conflict on campus. I can also agree that the population wants the people in charge to be paying attention.
I think where our positions are departing is exactly who we are talking about.
I am a pretty old school federalist and believe in the distinct separation of authority and responsibility in the different levels of government. If the federal government starts "reassuring" on every small town and municipal issue that is the responsibility of the local government, it is very easy to begin scope creep and start to do something. You know the old saying, "I'm from the federal government and I am here to help."
Granted, history does show a few times when it became necessary, in the eyes of the population, for the state and federal government to get involved, but in those cases it was largely due to deliberate inaction or failure to comply with state or federal laws.
In this case, I don't think we are anywhere near that. The protests have been largely peaceful, sure some hateful words have been said, but the worst crime is vandalism, littering and a smattering of weapons charges. And it's being handled.
I think the sheer disagreement behind some of the core messages is amping this into the spotlight. I think the President's words are a prime example of pandering. Every Governor and every University President should have been saying those words. Coming from the President they may carry some reassuring weight, but they mean nothing.
I will concede that the Republican response to his speech is probably exactly what he was looking for. Saying the President was not doing enough or condemning the protests in support of Israel only pushed them into the position that they would rather infringe upon constitutional rights than hear something they disagree with.
I appreciate your position and your ability to engage in civil discourse.
I think where our positions are departing is exactly who we are talking about.
I am a pretty old school federalist and believe in the distinct separation of authority and responsibility in the different levels of government. If the federal government starts "reassuring" on every small town and municipal issue that is the responsibility of the local government, it is very easy to begin scope creep and start to do something. You know the old saying, "I'm from the federal government and I am here to help."
Granted, history does show a few times when it became necessary, in the eyes of the population, for the state and federal government to get involved, but in those cases it was largely due to deliberate inaction or failure to comply with state or federal laws.
In this case, I don't think we are anywhere near that. The protests have been largely peaceful, sure some hateful words have been said, but the worst crime is vandalism, littering and a smattering of weapons charges. And it's being handled.
I think the sheer disagreement behind some of the core messages is amping this into the spotlight. I think the President's words are a prime example of pandering. Every Governor and every University President should have been saying those words. Coming from the President they may carry some reassuring weight, but they mean nothing.
I will concede that the Republican response to his speech is probably exactly what he was looking for. Saying the President was not doing enough or condemning the protests in support of Israel only pushed them into the position that they would rather infringe upon constitutional rights than hear something they disagree with.
I appreciate your position and your ability to engage in civil discourse.
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Protests are legal (I've always thought 'permit required' was asinine) and should be allowed. Except for those groups that have 'occupied' buildings then vandalized them. Those students need to be expelled with the non-students/instigators being arrested for trespassing and held till trial. Crimes committed by groups and individuals need to be addressed both by organizers/authorities.
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1SG (Join to see)
But right now, it’s seems to have escalated from peaceful to confrontation, seizing areas and buildings, and interfering with the education of students. Doesn’t this mean we need leaders to step in or do we just let it run its course
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
1SG (Join to see) - Absolutely - "... need to be expelled with the non-students/instigators being arrested for trespassing and held till trial."
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