What are your views concerning civilian security guards when entering military bases?

MAJ David Vermillion — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:14:48 -0500

Are civilian security guards good for the military? What is the message they are sending to the public.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 4:24 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:24:07 -0500

No problem I know of. If they save money, than yes, I'm for freeing up dollars to be spent on something in the military other than a military gate guard. I don't think it sends any message to the public - they don't know any better.

Response by SFC Francisco Roman made Feb 17 at 2015 4:36 PM

SFC Francisco Roman — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:36:41 -0500

No, they are not trained in the military code of conduct, To many good man and woman trained hard to find this position in there field.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Feb 17 at 2015 4:38 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:38:14 -0500

Leave.

That's my view.

Response by CW3 Kenneth Peck made Feb 17 at 2015 4:41 PM

CW3 Kenneth Peck — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:41:37 -0500

I feel that trained MP's should be used for what they have been trained for! If in a Garrison environment then Base Security including manning the Gates......If in a Field environment then Troop Security, Combat Patrols, Route Recon, etc...

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Feb 17 at 2015 4:42 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:42:36 -0500

I can speak about Fort Bragg as that is where I work. After 9-11 and Fort Bragg became a ghost town the installation had no choice but to let a civilian contract for gate guards. It was done mainly to augment the military police force that was charges with not only gate guard but all the other functions. This contract lasted until approximately 2011/12 timeframe when the installation commander began civilianizing the positions i.e. making them GS positions within the DES. I believe this saved money but I will say that having a civilian contractor at the gate does not send the wrong picture in my opinion as it helped the local economy and provided jobs.

Response by SPC Neil Hood made Feb 17 at 2015 4:48 PM

SPC Neil Hood — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:48:19 -0500

In my experience they are either friendly and upbeat or disgruntled jerks.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 4:51 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:51:05 -0500

Having spent my first 5 years enlisted as an MP I will first acknowledge my bias. My preference will always be to have a Soldier at the gate and if possible he/she will be an MP. That belief carries forward to other areas as well though. We see many TDA unit with civilians serving in primary staff positions and many other areas on post are now filled by civilians that not too long ago were filled by a Soldier. I understood the fiscal reasoning overall in the long term but being a Soldier will always be different than having been a Soldier when caring for Soldiers. This will not always be the case and many vets or even some who never served do a terrific job and have great passion and care/concern for taking care of Soldiers. Something we said when I was an MP was "Of the Troops and for the Troops" and being cared for and protected by fellow currently serving Soldiers has it's attraction to me. Again I am biased and that is my personal preference and it's not because civilians are incapable or lacking.

Response by CPO Fritz McCormick made Feb 17 at 2015 5:27 PM

CPO Fritz McCormick — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:27:44 -0500

I can see civilian security guards at certain bases depending on the function of that particular base. However, I do believe it is necessary to have military guards on bases that function as training areas used for preparation for any type of hostile activities that could happen in our country.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Feb 17 at 2015 7:40 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:40:31 -0500

We had outsourced guards and switched back to military.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2015 7:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:50:36 -0500

Maj David Vermillion, I will take this a step further. I was at Ft. Lost in the Woods a couple of years ago, and we all know this is an Engineering base, training wise and when ever there were road issues such as snow clean up or what have you, the base chose to hire civilian sub contractors. I thought this would be great experience for the trainees. So, the Military and Government has made the local base a major civilian contractor as a whole when they have troops on base that could do the work and get learning experience.

I grew up on Military bases until I was 16 ears old and never will forget the chase down from the MP's in a jeep with a .50cal on the back breaking curfew. Going to the mess hall and seeing troops pulling KP, training troops pulling butt duty, cleaning the base up every weekend. What happened to the Military?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 4:47 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 04:47:06 -0500

JBLM had civilians until 2013. Now they rotate through the major units manning the gates. I suspect this change was a result of the budget cuts that started then

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 6:05 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 06:05:43 -0500

Department of Defense police was definitely a move to fill a vacancy created by deploying military police to Iraq and Afghanistan. I know most installations are not renewing the contracts and manning the ECPs with Soldiers. It has created a whole different set of issues for the tenant units.

The red cycle tasking for manning all the gates at Fort Bliss, Texas takes almost an entire Infantry battalion. It would not be that big of a deal if the installation (division) properly managed the red cycle but the ARFORGEN cycle makes it very hard to do that. If a BCT is deployed then that means one of the BCTs just got back and, the other one is getting ready to deploy. Makes it hard to fairly manage tasking cycles and training cycles. Pretty much forces the BCTs to internally manage the cycles, an art that has been lost for some time.

It's not just the gates it's every aspect of the installation being privatized. Something is going to have to give.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 8:02 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:02:57 -0500

Do really need to down size people or do we need to close bases?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 18 at 2015 1:22 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:22:30 -0500

Considering the alternative is to task non-security trained soldiers at the gate (ie those on red cycle), I think scurity guards who's only job is to monitor/restrict access to post just fine. The reality is we don't have the numbers of MPs to guard all access points and in this day and age of decreasing green suiters, we are going to rely on GS or contractors more and more.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 18 at 2015 1:37 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:37:54 -0500

OK with me...never really thought about it before. As long as they maintain the standards and look like a dweeb at gate. Think they doing a good job

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Feb 18 at 2015 1:38 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:38:09 -0500

At SJAFB we have civilians, but there is always a SP or two there also. Usually one in the gatehouse and one in one of the lines checking IDs.

Response by SPC David S. made Feb 18 at 2015 1:55 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:55:39 -0500

Well considering Jonathan Short, a poser who was caught by MP's at Ft. Knox on post, I would like to know more about how he gained access. This seems to be a serious security risk.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2015 10:21 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 22:21:36 -0500

Considering I've gotten to the CP Kim gate twice and found the guard sleeping, I'm not feeling the confidence! I vote put the MPs back at the gate(s)!!

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Apr 20 at 2018 9:05 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:05:09 -0400

We get what the government can afford or wants to give.

There are only so many MPs to go around or Red Cycle bodies to do this. In Germany after 9/11, many bases were manned by Germany soldiers. Back then we had so many small installations.

The Army can only have so many soldiers on active duty, it becomes a game of MOS. Should we convert HR positions to civilians to have more SF and infantry folks? Yep, already done this is where PSDR came in around 2005-2008. Bring in more civilian guards or DoD police in lieu of X? Create a Scyber command at the expence of X. I get it, some thigns are very political above my level.

Back to my opening, we get what the government can afford or wants to give.