What assumptions, rumors, or historical references are contributing to the distrust of the warp speed COVID19 vaccine?

2021-02-07T14:03:46-05:00

The buzz that is on the news addresses Negro communities do not trust the vaccine because the Tuskegee experiments were a horror introduced to the Negro men subjected to treatments that were not designed to cure their syphilis. MK ULTRA, a cold war era drug introduced by the government left much suspicion and distrust for a government wide sanction that affected whole populations. The news referred to the wide administration of the COVID19 vaccination as "herd vaccination". Jews being sent to concentration camps were sent in herds. What are we really facing in this 21st century world. To avoid a possible claim of libel, I will make this statement this way, "do a search on billionaires that support herd vaccinations, then search out their views on population control".

https://www.history.com/topics/us-government/history-of-mk-ultra

MK-Ultra

MK-Ultra was a top-secret CIA project in which the agency conducted hundreds of clandestine experiments—sometimes on unwitting U.S. citizens—to assess the

Response by SSG Michael Noll made Feb 7 at 2021 2:14 PM

2021-02-07T14:14:22-05:00

Thank you for sharing sister Phyllis. Will do.

Response by GySgt Gary Cordeiro made Feb 7 at 2021 2:14 PM

2021-02-07T14:14:29-05:00

Very timely and eye opening. Thanks for the post

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Feb 7 at 2021 2:15 PM

2021-02-07T14:15:15-05:00

Psychological warfare and propaganda works; and is being practiced against the American people (and citizenry) by Americans both inside and outside of the government on multiple levels.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Feb 7 at 2021 2:16 PM

2021-02-07T14:16:29-05:00

Very Interesting Information PO3 Phyllis Maynard....

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Feb 7 at 2021 2:17 PM

2021-02-07T14:17:39-05:00

PO3 Phyllis Maynard after this last election and the past 20 years of corrupt government (maybe even longer) I wouldn't and couldn't trust the government any further then I could throw them. There are so many things on the Internet these days, that's its really hard to tell what the truth is anymore (conspiracy theories abound). My mother is 85 and she is geting the vaccine because of her age, and then there are us Veterans who will be contactced by the VA to get ours very soon as well. Right now they are vacinating about 11,000 that are 75 and older here at the Denver VA... So, I guess it comes down to what you believe and the research you do, but even the research can be bias... I've not made up my mind yet on the vaccine. We'll see... As far as your question I've looked at what you recommended and again I don't know why or who to believe my friend. We live in strange times that is for sure...

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 7 at 2021 2:18 PM

2021-02-07T14:18:17-05:00

The vaccine is optional, just as is abortion. Both result in large numbers of people of color, if the wrong decision is made.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 7 at 2021 2:26 PM

2021-02-07T14:26:13-05:00

And there you have it. FDR was absolutely correct in this one instance. We have nothing to fear but fear itself...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2021 2:27 PM

2021-02-07T14:27:34-05:00

The same exact thing happened when the H1N1 vaccine was sped through the approval process. I was a medic then and I remember other medics saying they falsified their immunization info because they were not going to take it.

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that any time anything is out of the norm, there are people who will be adamantly against it. Any time you change anything, whether it's a vaccination schedule or elementary school education curriculum, there are people who are against it claiming the worst.

As for the "herd vaccination" that's because you want to vaccinate enough people to create "herd immunity". It's not a great term, but it fits. Unfortunately, with this vaccination, the data I read said that unlike other vaccinations you can still pass the disease to others, it just prevents you from dying.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2021 2:38 PM

2021-02-07T14:38:48-05:00

I know exactly what you're talking about, PO3.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 7 at 2021 2:50 PM

2021-02-07T14:50:28-05:00

There are several individuals in my area that are against the vaccine, and thinking that it's a government ploy to test it on people like they're lab rats or something like that sister PO3 Phyllis Maynard

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2021 3:00 PM

2021-02-07T15:00:27-05:00

PO3 Phyllis Maynard Thank you for your informative post. I can certainly understand the skepticism of the Covid Vaccination.

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 7 at 2021 3:39 PM

2021-02-07T15:39:21-05:00

I'm hesitant about taking the vaccine. It isn't about any nefarious plots, schemes or conspiracy theories.

I've seen far too many "If you took __________ and are are experiencing ___________, __________, or ____________; you may be entitled to compensation" commercials. Drugs that haven't been rushed through the approval process are later discovered to have significant problems relatively often. These vaccines have been rushed through. I don't trust the rushed process.

I suspect 3-5 years down the line we will start seeing those commercials about one or some of the vaccines.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2021 3:42 PM

2021-02-07T15:42:53-05:00

PO3 Phyllis Maynard Everything introduced during the previous administration was politicized. Some group or other was bound to get upset no matter what the subject. I think that behavior is continuing with the response to Covid 19 treatments..
One cause for concern about a rapid introduction of medications can be the memory of Thalidomide - horrible cause of birth defects. It was subjected to the rigor of new medication, but had unanticipated side effects. Could be that many folks are just plain scared. Just a thought.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2021 6:08 PM

2021-02-07T18:08:14-05:00

Had my first shot - sore arm 2nd day like tetanus booster

2nd shot - woke up next day feeling like I had flu A again. Horrible vertigo. Horrible body aches. Horrible weakness and tiredness. About 30 hours later no issues like it never happened.

I’ve known people with covid who had no issues and just mild allergy like symptoms and I’ve lost a couple friends and came close to losing others.

My guess is the strength of my immunity response to the 2nd dose means if I had the actual virus it would have really done a number on me.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Feb 7 at 2021 10:27 PM

2021-02-07T22:27:46-05:00

Thank you my friend PO3 Phyllis Maynard for posting a timely group of related questions.
To be honest their are myriad reasons posited to distrust the various COVID vaccines.
I think you meant to state 'herd immunity' and not 'herd vaccination' unless you are focused on concerns about gene therapy or other fears based on history.
a. The current approach is closer to herd vaccination in that the goal is to vaccinate everybody.
b. Whether or not herd immunity would result depends on many factors - degree and distribution of mutation of virus which negates effectiveness of vaccination; relative immunity to reinfection for vaccination and expectation for how long relative immunity would last and what symptoms a person could expect [if any] as immunity was ending [short of becoming infected.

1. Political resistance - their were many democrats and progressives who distrusted the government under former President Donald Trump - many publicly said they would not trust the government. Now that Joe Biden is POTUS and his prediction about rapid and effective distribution of vaccine has been debunked by facts.
2. Mistrust of vaccines in general based on family history of adverse reaction as well as paranoia at the other extreme.
3. Non-citizens natural reticence to being treated and added to government visibility of their status.
4. Fear of gene therapy.

COVID-19 Vaccination: What You Need to Know - Jan 27, 2021
Presenters for this webinar are:
Adrienne Boissy, MD, Chief Experience Officer
Steven Gordon, MD, Chair of Infectious Disease
Michelle Medina, MD, Associate Chief of Clinical Operations
Richard Rothman, MD, Chair of Hospital Medicine
Moderated by Lara Kalafatis, Chair, Philanthropy Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3uBFX4iz6c

FYI Maj Robert Thornton Kim Bolen RN CCM ACM 1LT (Anonymous) Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D. Maj Kim Patterson SMSgt David A Asbury SMSgt Lawrence McCarter LTC Private RallyPoint Member LTC Greg Henning COL Mikel J. Burroughs PO1 H Gene Lawrence PO1 William "Chip" Nagel TSgt David L. Maj Marty Hogan SGT Private RallyPoint Member SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL 1LT Voyle Smith CSM Charles Hayden

COVID-19 Vaccination: What You Need to Know

To learn more about the COVID-19 vaccine, please visit https://my.clevelandclinic.org/landing/covid-19-vaccineFor more information on creating a safe workpla...

Response by PO1 Robert Chalmers made Feb 7 at 2021 10:37 PM

2021-02-07T22:37:08-05:00

I can certainly relate with them over concerns regarding this push of vaccines that have not been thoroughly tested. I'm a Gulf War vet, and there were major concerns about the untested, brand new anthrax vaccines, as well as the theory regarding how pyridostigmine tablets would SUPPOSEDLY reduce the effects of chemical nerve agents. Now, 30 years later, we have tens of thousands of veterans with unique health issues that the VA STILL can't fully understand or explain.

Response by 1LT Voyle Smith made Feb 8 at 2021 4:16 AM

2021-02-08T04:16:23-05:00

I got both of my shots at the Kerrville VA Medical Center in Kerrville Texas, with the second shot received on 6 Feb 2021. That was the Pfizer vaccine. I’m 79 years old and have not had any adverse reactions at all, not even soreness or irritation at the point of injection. The LVN who did the honors was so highly skilled I never even felt the needle entry. The longest wait was the ten minute “observation period” for the nurse to ensure I wasn’t going to pass out. I was in and out of there in no time at all.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 4:23 AM

2021-02-08T04:23:42-05:00

You should look up the history of the Polio vaccine when it was first released. Specifically, the Cutter Tragedy. A lot of children were debilitated from it.

Ignoring that, no vaccine is risk free. COVID vaccine is only approved under an Emergency Use Authorization. There is a good reason why employers and the military cannot mandate it. It is untested at the levels normally required. I’m not going to put an untested vaccine in my body for a disease with a 99.99999% survival rate. That would be dumb.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 8 at 2021 11:33 AM

2021-02-08T11:33:31-05:00

I believe the biggest reason (and there are many reasons) is that for the last 20 years or so, there has been a war against credibility. Institutions which we used to be able to trust for accurate and meaningful information, have come under attack as being biased, deceptive, or ouright lying. These attacks have primarily been directed at the media, specifically news outlets (to include print and broadcast), and at government. These attacks have gotten exponentially worse over the last 6 years or so.

Some of these attacks are valid - news media today, ESPECIALLY the national level news sources (NYT, WaPo, USA Today, CNN, Fox, NPR, etc.) DO tend to have bias or slant in their reporting. Fox used to use the tagline "fair and balanced" but that was never the truth. They moved to "We report, you decide" which should be the way ALL news outlets run. But none of them do. Different government officials (i.e. Congress Critters, POTUS, White House Spokesperson, etc.) make public announcements / public statements that directly contradict each other.

So... when you have learned that every news source, as well as your government officials (who seem to be completely willing to lie to their constituents if it will help them get re-elected), must be assumed to be "spinning" every piece of data you get, what can you trust? If Congresswoman Smith says that swimming is dangerous, but Senator Jones says it is perfectly safe, who do you trust? And if these people, who supposedly have the best, most relevant, and most up-to-date information available can't agree, then how can they be any more credible than Professor Johnson who created a series of viral videos? Or George Clooney, Kim Kardashian, or Jim Carrey?

Our national level news media have allowed themselves to become biased and partial. Despite this, they are (for the most part) still factual and accurate, even though they DO report with a slant. Prominent politicians have used this to destroy their credibility in the minds of most Americans. Politicians haven't been all that high on the "trust scale" for a while now, but have slid even further through their endless partisan attacks and their apparent willingness to lie, cheat, and steal their way into office, or into more power once in office.

In this world, who do you trust for the truth? How can any "average citizen" know what is true, and who to believe?

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Feb 10 at 2021 9:22 AM

2021-02-10T09:22:55-05:00

PO3 Phyllis Maynard Look up who co-sponsored the events at this URL - https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/exercises/

Past exercises held by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security

The Center hosts a series of exercises to illustrate the strategic decisions and policies stakeholders will need to diminish the consequences of a pandemic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2021 4:28 PM

2021-02-10T16:28:33-05:00

I personally believe this virus vaccination had the highest visibility of review that there ever was. While I trust this vaccination, I don’t trust most of what the federal government does these days, it looks like they weaponized justice, law enforcement, and intelligence agencies to persecute their political enemies. The investigations they performed on Service Members was disgusting in my opinion.

Response by PO1 Robert Chalmers made Mar 11 at 2021 11:50 PM

2021-03-11T23:50:49-05:00

I'm a Gulf War vet, and on Facebook I've seen quite a lot of my fellow vets mention how leery they are about this happening so quickly, and without any sort of clinical trials.
Many of us, myself included, have very clear memories of the Army giving us untested Anthrax vaccines, as well as pyridostigmine tablets that would SUPPOSEDLY slow the effects of nerve agents.
Here we are, thirty years later, and I think that pretty much everyone, ESPECIALLY vets, as well as current service members, are aware of the undefined ailments that hundreds of thousands of us have been experiencing, called Gulf War Syndrome.
My personal ailments have included memory problems, constant aches and pains, specifically in my joints which started when I was only 35, and very significant GI and bowel issues.
At least ten members of my unit, that was am aware of, have died. The first several died within 7 years of returning home.
And we weren't even a front-line unit-- we were the farthest north Combat Support Hospital, and received the most American wounded casualties of all CSH's, as well as a large number of Iraqi casualties.
which probably meant that we received second-hand exposure to whatever they had been directly exposed to. I know that several times our chemical alarms went of, but we were repeatedly told that it was false alarms caused by the sand storms.