What do I say to a SPC regarding being promoted?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:51:44 -0400

His concern is closing doors, he doesn't want to nix the option of more responsibility, but with everything being chaotic right now he also wants to "be conservative to not get caught up in current events"

He is a full-time electrical engineering college student civilian side - ETS is Oct 2023. He planned on going IRR and transferring to another branch due to the Army disqualifies him career-wise for being color blind.

I genuinely am at a loss for words. I have explained to him that taking the promotion is not just pinning a SGT Rank on. It is a commitment.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2020 2:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:01:31 -0400

Basically just tell him that he needs to make a final decision. Does he want to get promoted to SGT or not? Does he want to spend the next 3 years as a SPC or spend the next 3 years as a SGT?

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Apr 22 at 2020 2:24 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:24:58 -0400

If school is his focus, then let it be. I would rather have a soldier that wants to stay an E4 and his goal set on completing an engineer degree than one that has no goals and will just float with the wind.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Apr 22 at 2020 2:36 PM

SPC Nancy Greene — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:36:31 -0400

Excellent Questions
SGT Heather Mascaro!
Good Leaders explore all options.
This SPC has to make the final decision.
Personally, I would take the promotion, then complete degree in line due to COVID-19.
Get the (pay & leadership skills needed) and the Active Duty experience.
Then, revisit options...just my two cents

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2020 2:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:51:38 -0400

What you say to him is that within the next three years before his ETS he will be MLI promotable, regardless of his desire. He will go to BLC and he will eventually promote. If he refuses, there will be automatic bars that will make him an RE3 code that no other service will touch. If he remains an E4 with all that time in service he will bump up against other services High Year Tenure and require an exception that other services won't want to touch. The fact he's color blind will disqualify him from just as many jobs in the other services.

With a person like this, you just let them ETS, go into the IRR, get denied by all their other "opportunities" and they usually come back in the Army within a year or two

Response by SFC Richard Williamson made Apr 22 at 2020 3:28 PM

SFC Richard Williamson — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:28:50 -0400

Back in my days as a career counselor, I would have to question how he plans on being an Electrical Engineer with color blindness. Next, as his career counselor/NCO. I would qualify him for an MOS that matches his disability. For this I would go to (?) AR 350-1, I think, to check for schools available to him. It's been over 27 years so this AR may not exist anymore. The next step would be to either help him reclassify or reenlist for another MOS. Back in my day, being color blind did not disqualify a person from the Army, however, it did limit their choices or options. Profiles used to have a major impact on a person's promotions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2020 3:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:49:37 -0400

You can only do your part. The decision is up to the SPC.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2020 5:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:17:13 -0400

If he wants to be an engineer and support the Army he should look at the Army SMART program, it's like ROTC for civilian engineers. At the end of the program you're hired by the Army.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 22 at 2020 6:39 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:39:31 -0400

So when I was at that point as a SPC at Fort Campbell, ETS was just within the next 8 months and not as far out. If it helps this is what went through my head at the time as I remember things today.
Also, it was a Infantry unit so slightly different in operations from a support unit as you will read via some of the below:

1. PIN SGT base pay increase in late 1986 was pretty measely, I think it was $50 more a month about same as jump pay at the time. I felt that was a little low for the added responsibility and or the hassle that being a SGT would introduce over SPC.

2. Senior NCO's seemed to like to pick on new SGT (1SG & SFC's), so a quick cost and benefit there was it worth it to be a PVT of the NCO Corps for a few months or ETS? In my case only a few months, would rather remain SPC........ if it was years more I would have gone for SGT.

3. 1SG wanted me to take on more responsibility because of TIS, so I agreed to take on Assistant Armor position with the cavet if I changed my mind on ETS, the additional responsibility would also help with SGT Board as I was more visible to SGM and Company level operations, CO, Training SGT, etc. Still maintained my position in the line platoon as a TOW Gunner so I was doing two jobs and was putting extra time after the company was released for the day. So a good suggestion would be to offer the guy something like this. Still has movement forwards to SGT but not getting promoted to SGT just yet and you should still send or prep him for the board unless he absolutely digs in his heals. By taking on additional responsiblity myself I felt I was still contributing vs just riding the system. So you might try this with him and as he gets exposure behind the scenes more to company and BN operations then he might start to change his mind on the rank.

Also, EE degree is no joke acedemically, that is hard field of study years 2-4. So I can understand his hesitency there but also explain there are plenty of light NCOIC positions for SGT as well in which he is not burning the midnight oil which might be something he might explore. Last he should also consider postponing that degree until he seperates fully from the Army or goes ROTC.

Also, above was Active Army not Army Reserves. I spent time in the Guard as well (2 years) what sucks about that when your going to college is everytime you have free time from your studies to relax......GUARD DRILL. Family reunion and it's............GUARD DRILL. Etc, etc.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 23 at 2020 4:43 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:43:02 -0400

He doesn't want to get promoted because of an opportunity that might not happen three years from now? Nobody knows what is gonna happen 3 years in the future. His focus should be to be not only the best student but also the best Soldier. Putting off the idea of getting promoted for 3 + years because of something that may or may not present itself at that time is absurd and honestly it sounds like a weak excuse not to put in some work.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 23 at 2020 6:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:10:29 -0400

I would not want to promote him if he has that approach.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2020 10:43 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:43:22 -0400

No one should be made an NCO if they don't want it, period! We push/drag people into leadership that don’t want it. Don’t get me wrong, we need to mentor and teach and grow our junior enlisted, but let the cream rise to the top. They will make better leaders.

Like you said it’s a commitment. When I hear from SGM “I want all SPC to submit a promotion packet” I cringe, we end up promoting people to their highest level of incompetency. I would rather have a good SPC then a crappy NCO.

Response by SSG Rajeev Kirpalani made Apr 24 at 2020 12:29 AM

SSG Rajeev Kirpalani — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:29:08 -0400

You can only do so much. He needs to decide

Response by SPC Troy Warmath made May 4 at 2020 7:40 AM

SPC Troy Warmath — Mon, 04 May 2020 07:40:01 -0400

Specialist today is special follow me I have news for thee

Response by SPC Miles Blackman made May 15 at 2020 1:57 PM

SPC Miles Blackman — Fri, 15 May 2020 13:57:54 -0400

It's to bad that the Army did away with the Specialist ranks above E-4, otherwise you could pin a Spec 5 on him and go on and then later encourage him to look at getting a WO Commission.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Jul 3 at 2020 3:35 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Fri, 03 Jul 2020 03:35:42 -0400

Exactly "his" point.

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 17 at 2020 9:52 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:52:40 -0400

One thing you have realize and remind yourself is not everyone wants a promotion. Some soldiers are comfortable and proficient where they are. I personally did not want to be promoted though the PSG ordered me to the board anyways. I explained that I did not want stripes because I had not yet served in certain positions and I was debating on ETSing. Second board I went to willingly. You're a guide for soldiers, explain the options, address concerns, and leave the rest of it to him. We as NCOs want the best for our soldiers and for them to progress in the army, but we also have use that parenting part and let them make that choice.

Response by MAJ Mike Middleton made Jul 15 at 2021 4:56 PM

MAJ Mike Middleton — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:56:46 -0400

Success is determined differently. If he doesn't want to be a SGT; then it is probably best for all that he does not become one.