What do I say when a lower enlisted soldier tell's me it's not their job or it's outside their MOS?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2020 06:54:22 -0400

If I tell a lower enlisted Soldier to do something and he tells me uts outside his MOS. What regulation can I cite that I can make him do it?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2020 8:49 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2020 08:49:40 -0400

AR 600-20, para 4-2
4–2. Obedience to orders
All persons in the military Service are required to strictly obey and promptly execute the legal orders of their lawful seniors.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made May 7 at 2020 9:18 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Thu, 07 May 2020 09:18:45 -0400

"Lower Enlisted"? Do you mean Junior Enlisted? Words have meaning.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2020 9:26 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2020 09:26:12 -0400

Two options - tell him to call for a Union steward and smoke him till one shows up, or flip him a quarter to call the Chaplain to see if he gives a f**k.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2020 10:01 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2020 10:01:29 -0400

You tell them everyone's first job is Soldier, their second job is their MOS.

Response by CPT Tzvi Mejer made May 7 at 2020 10:19 AM

CPT Tzvi Mejer — Thu, 07 May 2020 10:19:19 -0400

You mean an enlisted soldier of lower rank?
If that is the case, send his $ss to the stockade for a week to thing about the value of Military discipline.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2020 11:12 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2020 11:12:16 -0400

If the order is a lawful order in which are put in a position to give them, and they refuse, follow it up with a nice corrective action session and document with a DA 4856. Like it was said in this thread already, we are all soldiers before anything else. If it is work related to the Army, it is all of our jobs to do what is asked of us by our senior leaders, so long as it is lawful.

Response by SGT Timothy Stuart made May 7 at 2020 12:10 PM

SGT Timothy Stuart — Thu, 07 May 2020 12:10:15 -0400

Many things we do in the military are outside our MOS. Shooting a rifle has nothing to do with Communications. Physical fitness has no bearing on Administration. So on, and so on. The larger question is, “Was the order lawful?”, if the order given IS lawful, counsel the SM, with corrective action, documented on the appropriate forms, and let the chips fall where they may. Seek help from your NCO on the proper way to do this if you do not know how to do so.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made May 7 at 2020 2:35 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 07 May 2020 14:35:16 -0400

All of us have general military authority, with more grade and position comes more authority. Does this soldier report to you, if so, issue the tissue and get him counseled. If not, have a conversation with their supervisor/Platoon Sgt/First Sgt (do yourself a favor and do it in that order, or you well get problems later). If you are in the same section this should be dealt with easily, if not in the same section take the same course of action. A good NCO should not tolerate insubordinate soldiers in their section and should deal with it accordingly.

Response by William Barry made May 7 at 2020 3:50 PM

William Barry — Thu, 07 May 2020 15:50:30 -0400

Is it something that he knows how to do.? I'm a mental health worker so I can figure out how to write vital signs down with blood pressure; pulse ox; etc, but was never trained on the machine to do them like a CNA or LPN or RN. In Boston MHws do them, but Worcester not so much. That is the first question.

Response by SPC Caleb McCort made May 7 at 2020 4:08 PM

SPC Caleb McCort — Thu, 07 May 2020 16:08:56 -0400

First of all, is it a soldier task? Like if It’s digging a foxhole for a security position we should all know how to do that. But if it’s something completely outside of his job scope he may be trying to tell you he doesn’t know how to do it and it’s above his skill level. Example from experience: I’m an engineer. My buddy is the same rank as I am and we are always the guys tasked to check up on vehicles. Being engineers our vehicles are in the mechanic bay quite a bit. Now if all the mechanics are busy my buddy tends to try to “help” them and do the mechanic work himself often trying to drag me
along. I always tell him “I’m not a mechanic I’m an engineer so I’m not going to do mechanical work. Not my job” I have no idea how do do mechanical work on a vehicle so I will not risk the mission further by doing a task I’m not qualified for.

Response by SFC James Cameron made May 8 at 2020 4:24 AM

SFC James Cameron — Fri, 08 May 2020 04:24:42 -0400

Don’t be the Leader that solely hides behind Regulations. Be a Leader of Presence. That being said, what kind of task are we talking about?
Custodial care and maintenance of assigned property and equipment may not be MOS specific but is still an implied task.

Counseling is your friend and the power of the pen is mighty. Leave emotion out of the session and simply state facts, not assumptions or speculations. Retrain the Soldier on whatever deficiency or failure is present.

You can’t “make” a Solider do something, but you can take his time, and you can make recommendations to your Commander for further administrative actions in the event of insubordination or disrespect. Without that paper trail you won’t have a leg to stand on or a crutch to hold you.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2021 6:09 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 May 2021 18:09:10 -0400

Depends. If it something way outside their MOS that requires certain certs to do; then ask who can do the job. It is something basic, then ask who gets their SGLI and that they may want to make a phone call on that.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 3 at 2021 8:22 AM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 03 May 2021 08:22:34 -0400

Hand him a broom and a big trash bag and set him to policing the area, that’s everyones MOS I’d guess. You can even have his peers stand around and jeer him a bit. Happens twice he gets office hours, he can lose rank, money, retain him to quarters.