What do you really think about writing your own NCOERs?

2015-08-27T15:11:25-04:00

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Aug 27 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-08-27T15:15:15-04:00

I think having an NCO write their own NCOER is a leadership failure. How are we supposed to trust leaders who can't even keep track of the accomplishments and performance of their direct subordinates?

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Aug 27 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-08-27T15:18:01-04:00

Would it make even more of us float above the water instead of just walking on it. I received a NCOER from a Civilian once, He rated me fairly. The Unit SGM rewrote it and maxed me out. He told the Civilian that he was never to write anything about an NCO again without his approval.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 27 at 2015 3:56 PM

2015-08-27T15:56:57-04:00

I wrote most of my OERs when I was in. I thought that was SOP.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 27 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-08-27T16:04:12-04:00

I'm completely fine with it. The sad truth is that most NCO's can't write to save their lives. No one should have to worry about their career because they had the misfortune of being assigned to an NCO with sub par writing/grammar. If you write it yourself, with chain of command oversight of course, you'll get the NCOER you deserve. Either you write well, in which case it will reflect in the text. Alternatively, if you write poorly, big Army should get a snapshot of that as well. But no one should be held back because their boss had a sub par education. There are far too many "leaders" fluent in Wal-Mart and Street...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 4:09 PM

2015-08-27T16:09:49-04:00

Always write it and get it read over by someone you trust who can spell and wordsmith. It helps you learn to write and helps your evaluator. That being said I will always work with my subordinates and help them with support form and write their evaluations and awards.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 27 at 2015 4:36 PM

2015-08-27T16:36:58-04:00

Once they are signed off by the senior authority they are no longer yours. It happens on occasion. Even in the private industry management asks for a "brag" sheet". If they don't know you well enough, it helps them. If they do, they are either agreeing or modifying it.
Quick story. A newly assigned CPO was instructed to complete evals for all his people. He explained he knew nothing about them and it wouldn't be fair. The response was an order to comply. He rated each and every one of them with the highest score possible. When called on the carpet as to why, he said, "Anyone that could work for a bunch of P****s like you deserves the highest rating". He retired as a CPO.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 27 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-08-27T17:28:10-04:00

So here is MHO. How can I be rated by my rater or senior rater if I write it myself. All I am doing is patting myself on the back. that is why the rater and senior rate are to write it. They write what they have seen or noticed. Not that they have seen what I have written. I don't agree with it. I wrote my last one because I had to. My Squad leader was not going to do it. He calls me on the phone and say white the bullets and put them on the form I'll look it over rate it and send it up! Just think that by the individual writing it doesn't give an accurate view from the leader.

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Aug 27 at 2015 6:29 PM

2015-08-27T18:29:35-04:00

It is not appropriate, but I can see it being done. My question would be - are the monthly and quarterly counseling being done? If so, it should not be a big deal, if not it is a big leadership failure. My unit required the counseling statements to be attached to the NCOER when being sent forward to the Senior Rater and the Reviewer. This is also what was done when service award recommendations were sent forward. One thing that came out of this process was another avenue for our leadership to assist in the NCO education process.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-08-27T20:27:53-04:00

Never did this in the military. But, worked for a company that used that system. I hated it. I am to hard a boss.

But, only on myself!

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 28 at 2015 2:10 AM

2015-08-28T02:10:11-04:00

Hard to say. Depends on the Situation. If you are working in an Independent Situation and your Next Up Superior is not from the same Career Field as you and doesn't know the correct terminology, I see nothing wrong with you providing him the wording.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 9:06 AM

2015-08-28T09:06:38-04:00

I’ve had six Platoon Leaders as a Platoon Sergeant and now five different Commanders as a First Sergeant. Honestly, it depends on the situation. At the end of the day, someone must write the evaluation. If we have a rater unwilling/unable to write our report card, we must use it as a teaching mechanism.

The truth is many Officers (and NCOs) are not skilled at writing NCOERs nor are they versed in the SGM/CSM-isms that usually must be adhered to (different topic/gripe for a separate day). As NCOs are responsible for the training of individuals, crews, and small teams, we owe it to our Officer counterparts to mentor and develop them. I wrote NCOERs for myself, provided shells/examples bullets to help guide and shape the conversation, also I have done nothing and had the evaluation written for me. In my experience, those who counseled me regularly were good at writing the evaluation.

I have found it effective to help coach those poor counselors/raters along by sitting down with them and pointing them in the right direction using the following technique: Personally I like to reference previous counseling (unless that leader failed to counsel), and type out my thoughts in a MS Word document – full sentence, paragraphs, two-word thoughts, however. Once I have all my thoughts on paper, I work to quantify each thought. From there I begin to turn my thoughts into bullet format ensuring formatting is correct. Then I will crack open a few previous years’ worth of post-board AARs and ensure I’m keeping pace with ever-changing standards/best practices. Then we copy/paste the bullets onto the form, starting with the strongest bullets first.

Response by SFC David Davenport made Aug 28 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-08-28T09:30:00-04:00

If the NCOER is supposed to be an evaluation and counseling tool how is it effective if you are writing your own? I always wanted the honest feedback so I could become a better Soldier and Leader.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-08-28T13:56:46-04:00

As an Infantry PSG my rater is a 2LT or 1LT who has a bunch of Army training under his belt and a 4 year degree but minimal experience with NCOERs. I wouldn't want to deprive him of the opportunity to learn by writing my NCOER; however, you can sure bet that I will have a hand in shaping it. Similarly, when I write an NCOER I like to keep the rated Soldier close to the process so that they can contribute but also so they see how the bullets are transformed from raw data into a presentable final product. I feel that under ideal circumstances it is a leadership failure for a rater to not write the NCOER. I completely understand writing your own NCOER though if you do not work closely with your rater during the rated period or you and your rater have an interpersonal issue that may lead to an unfair rating.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-08-28T14:20:58-04:00

Always have, my OER's too. My bosses have always said, "who knows better what you did than you?" Plus it improves your writing skill. Not saying it's right, but that's the way it's done....

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Aug 28 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-08-28T14:55:31-04:00

It not my job to do it

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 28 at 2015 3:03 PM

2015-08-28T15:03:18-04:00

I would give the APFT average of 267 and Excellence block.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-08-28T15:13:26-04:00

I hate that we write our own fitness reports, evaluations, awards, etc. I have never had someone that works for me write their own as a result of my feelings on this. Of course I ask for brag sheets for specifics of things they think are important to include, but I write it myself. I also however have written every single one of my own. On one hand, no one knows you better than you, on another I feel that it sends an odd message when we write it ourselves. How can I be given feedback on what I wrote? The only potential room for a conversation are any marks that changed from what I submitted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 6:27 PM

2015-08-28T18:27:07-04:00

I wrote my own NCOERs when I was enlisted. I can rate myself better than anyone else can. Plus I never trusted anyone else with my career. I also think my raters appreciated it because I was a better writer than they were. Maybe I just like to be in control because I never allow those who I rate to write their own. I can rate them better and give them the rating they deserve.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 1:33 AM

2015-08-29T01:33:35-04:00

My experience in the Reserves has predicated writing one's own NCOER. The meat of most Reserve NCOERs comes from activity done during Annual Training. Often, the rater and the rate are not in proximity to each other during the AT, in fact sometimes doing separate days all together. The other 48 days each year that might offer an opportunity to observe an NCO's actions are often spent doing mundane things like mandatory classes and briefs.

After having NCO's written by raters who have literally NEVER spent any time with me, I started writing my own. They are just too important for one's career to leave it to poor rating schemes. My most successful NCOER's have come when I track my accomplishments on a NCOER Support Form (2166-8-1) and forward that to my rater. He then generates bullets off of that, and then together we go over and polish the finished product.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Aug 30 at 2015 8:24 PM

2015-08-30T20:24:35-04:00

I was instructed to write my own NCOER just before my ETS because the LT left for emergency leave without even starting mine. I was told to write it, and they would get him to sign it upon his return. I was not supposed to be allowed to out-process without it.

I left, joined the NG for a 3 year stint to complete my 8 year service obligation. I NEVER had an NCOER.

Go figure.

Response by SGT(P) Crystal Marie France made Sep 5 at 2015 8:38 PM

2015-09-05T20:38:20-04:00

MSG I believe it is the wrong answer! Shows your NCO or rater is lazy.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2015 5:46 AM

2015-09-06T05:46:07-04:00

By doctrine, yes the rater should write the NCOER. However, I've always encouraged the whole rating chain to be active in writing the NCOER. What emphasis has the Army placed on teaching enlisted to write beyond a HS education level? I respect that Officers should be a higher caliber writer by way of their 4 years of under-graduate level writing, but I even see poor writing on OERs. Giving NCOs a one module class on Army writing is not enough. Until institutional learning places more emphasis on advance writing, then I think whoever can best write the NCOER should write it in order to prevent the Soldier from being penalized for poor penmanship.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-09-24T14:23:27-04:00

I never wrote my own EPR as that would be against regs. I did provide feed back to my supervisor in bullet format on the appropriate form.

Response by MSG Lance Kelly made Sep 25 at 2015 1:08 AM

2015-09-25T01:08:20-04:00

The rater is supposed to write it and counsel the NCO quarterly as they build the report over the year. Unfortunately, I write my own because I am rated by officers and they tend to write them the way you do an OER. I provide my accomplishments but expect them to add their input. I do the same with my NCOs. I prepare the admin portion, duty description, and additional duties and have them provide me their accomplishments. I want them to understand how to write one. I then modify or add to what they have based on my observation of their performance. They can usually provide something specific such as how many actions they processed. I encourage them to think about things they do such as participate in activities outside of the military. I try to get them to think outside the box. I have to write my own because my officers don't pay attention to what I actually do, they know they need me but they don't know the details so I do it myself, it's my career and I want it reflected.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 3:53 AM

2015-09-25T03:53:14-04:00

From what I've seen and heard from Officers, Warrants and Senior NCOs, "if you have a good NCO the NCOER will write itself". Sounds great and magical, but this does not mean that the NCO should or will write his/her NCOER. As a leader and rater, I believe it's your job to take care of this NCO and this falls righ in it. You should be able to account for the things the NCO has done or not done in that evaluation period, and you owe it to them to be able to write a good and fair evaluation. By all means, I support the idea of asking the NCO for a support form or bullets of things he/she accomplished and would like to reflect on the evaluation, take the input and added to yours and then write the eval. But don't lie to make it sound pretty, or try to "help" the NCO out. It's an evaluation, you as a rater write it, be honest about it and DON'T BE LAZY.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 30 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-09-30T12:57:17-04:00

I was livid when I saw an NCOER written by a NG MSG that was a career ending NCOER for a very good E-6. Needless to say it was rewritten.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 30 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-09-30T13:17:36-04:00

I've written my own since I passed the 5 year mark. I had a supervisor on the verge of retirement that gave me the lamest EPR ever, so from that point I started writing my own, even when I wasn't asked. It helped last month when my boss told me "hey, work on your OPR, it's due to the CSS in 3 week." and I had it to him in 15 minutes since I knew when it was due. My goal is to write it so good that he doesn't want to change a thing on it, just sign it and keep it moving up the chain!