What do you take off or wear for a military ball?

2014-12-18T07:55:09-05:00

i thought I knew. I'm an Audie Murphy Member, NCO of the year (twice), been in for sometime now and I think I am generally squared away. So I decided to quit going about thinking I knew and looked up the regulation. AR 670-1 has me looking in DA Pam 670-1 and the Pam has me looking in the Reg. I am chasing my tail here. there is no definitive answer on what is worn and I am now more confused than I was before I researched it. So, here is my question to you and I don't want "i thinks" or "back in my day". what do you wear when attending an evening ball. I don't have the nice dress mess. I have the old Dress Blues that converted to the ASU. where does it state that we don't wear unit awards or Distinguished Unit Insignia, or Airborne Trimming? maybe I missed it, the 10 times I just researched it. also, if one of you can talk to whoever wrote this reg and tell them that it's a horrible read. maybe both sections in the G1 should match the pam and the reg. don't know why I have to jump from reg to pam for answers. I know your answers will be too late for my ball this evening. so I am going to wear what I used to. no trimming, no DUI on the shoulders and keep the unit awards. if I am ate up, well, i'll be ate up. but for future, I would like to be able to advise appropriately.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 7:56 AM

2014-12-18T07:56:46-05:00

MSG

IT'S any easy answer for me. I put every thing on (what on my ERB ). Just bc i don't have much to show. ...yet

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Dec 18 at 2014 8:03 AM

2014-12-18T08:03:02-05:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member running to a morning meeting I hope this website helps a little in your search for proper wear.

http://www.army.mil/asu/index.html

United States Army Service Uniform

The Army Service Uniform (ASU) will be in effect as of June 14, 2008. The ASU development and transition is part of the Army’s continued efforts to streamline its uniforms. The transition to the ASU will eliminate the need for the numerous Army uniforms and provide one simple option with three versions.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 8:28 AM

2014-12-18T08:28:08-05:00

Party shirts?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2015 10:30 AM

2015-05-02T10:30:15-04:00

MSG Private RallyPoint Member, there is a clear-cut answer in the DA PAM. See Figure 13-19 (Army Dress Blue Uniform, enlisted male) and you'll notice that the DUI isn't authorized for the dress uniform. If you compare that figure to Figure 13-12 (Army Service Uniform, enlisted male), it may be easier for you to see what's different between the service and dress variations.

Before the new 670 came out, this was covered in ALARACT 202/2008: " WHEN THE DRESS BLUE ASU IS WORN FOR EVENING SOCIAL OCCASIONS (AFTER RETREAT) COMMANDERS CAN DIRECT NO HEADGEAR REQUIRED. COMBAT BOOTS AND
ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS, SUCH AS BRASSARDS, MILITARY POLICE (MP) ACCESSORIES AND DISTINCTIVE UNIT INSIGNIA (DUI) ARE NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE DRESS BLUE ASU. ALL OTHER ACCESSORIES AND INSIGNIA AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE CLASS A SERVICE UNIFORM ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR ON THE DRESS BLUE ASU."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2015 8:05 AM

2015-06-13T08:05:26-04:00

MSG Ibarra,
The short and long answer is there is not a single spot that lists it all; you have to jump around in the DA PAM because it's not listed in the AR.
21-22, d, 1 covers the DUI, 13-10, b, 3 for headgear and bow tie. What i found interesting is that it still requires the issue white shirt for dress occasions, 13-11 and 13-17.

I hope this also helps those trying to clarify in the future.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2016 9:52 AM

2016-03-13T09:52:49-04:00

How about this… Skip the ball and go someplace where you can wear jeans and sneakers!

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Mar 13 at 2016 5:37 PM

2016-03-13T17:37:15-04:00

The AR provides the policy guidance for wearing the uniform. The DA Pam provides the procedures for wearing the uniform. It was nice when there was one AR 670-1 that covered both. I am not sure why the Army made it more complicated. But a quick guide is that the AR tells when to wear each uniform. The DA Pam tells how to wear the uniform. If you want to know where badges and insignia go, it is the DA Pam. It is still confusing.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2016 1:13 AM

2016-06-04T01:13:45-04:00

DA Pam 670-1
Section II
Army Service Uniform and Dress Blue Uniform-Male
13–10. Composition
b. The variations of the blue service and dress uniforms consist of:
(1) The Army (blue) service Class A uniform includes the Army blue coat and trousers, AG shade 521 short- or long-sleeved shirt, and a black four-in-hand necktie (see figs 13–9 through 13–13). For accessories and other items authorized for wear on the Army (blue) Class A service uniform, see paragraph 13–11.
(3) The Army (blue) dress uniform includes the Army blue coat and trousers, a long-sleeved white shirt, and a black four-in-hand tie (before retreat) or a black bow tie (after retreat). When this uniform is worn for evening social occasions (after retreat), headgear is not required. When worn with a black bow tie, the Army blue uniform constitutes a formal uniform and corresponds to a civilian tuxedo. (See figs 13–14 and 13–19.)

DA Pam 670-1
21–22. Distinctive unit insignia.
d. How worn
(1) Enlisted personnel wear the DUI on the service uniform coat, centered on the shoulder loops an equal distance from the outside shoulder seam to the outside edge of the button, with the base of the insignia toward the outside shoulder seam. Enlisted personnel are not authorized to wear the DUI on the dress uniform.

AR 670-1
Chapter 13
Service/Dress Uniform-Male
13–2. Composition
b. The male service/dress uniform has multiple variations:
(1) Service Class A: All components are worn
(3) Dress: All components are worn; the bow tie is substituted for the necktie.

NOTE: Components are in reference to the clothing items that make up the uniform. Not Awards, Badges, Decorations, etc., etc., etc.,

The Difference is,,
Service uniform you can wear either the Short or Long Sleeve white shirt.
Dress uniform is Long Sleeve white shirt Only.
Bow Tie can Only be worn while in Dress Uniform!!

Where most Soldiers get confused is,, Us "Seasoned" Soldiers had the Dress Blues, (Wear Out date 01 OCT 2015),, and in that uniform,, Whether Bow Tie or Four in Hand Tie,, You did not wear DUI's on the Shoulder Loops.

Hope This Helped??

Response by SFC Rick H made Feb 6 at 2017 10:33 AM

2017-02-06T10:33:07-05:00

Wait a minute here... your claiming to be a MSG., with the U.S. Army I presume, then you claim to be an Audie Murphy member (i think is a slap in the face to the real Audi Murphy), you also claim to be NCO of the year (twice))? When did you find time to do your job as an NCO? Finally, you never take anything off or wear anything in which you are not authorized- don't want to be embellishing here!
If this is a Post function, the Post CSM will put out the CGs guidance as to uniform. AR 670-1 which you should already understand should be a good guide for you the rest of the way. One question there MSG? If you are unfamiliar with this stuff, how do you lead your troops? Rock Steady.. HOOAH

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Feb 6 at 2017 11:28 AM

2017-02-06T11:28:13-05:00

Thanks for serving our country MSG with such distinction and honor!

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Feb 6 at 2017 11:30 AM

2017-02-06T11:30:27-05:00

Best to ask another Senior NCO in the unit for guidance. If he's wrong at least the two of you will match.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 11 at 2017 7:04 PM

2017-11-11T19:04:48-05:00

DA Pam 670-1 13-10.
(3) The Army (blue) dress uniform includes the Army blue coat and trousers, a long-sleeved white shirt, and a black four-in-hand tie (before retreat) or a black bow tie (after retreat). When this uniform is worn for evening social occasions (after retreat), headgear is not required. When worn with a black bow tie, the Army blue uniform constitutes a formal uniform and corresponds to a civilian tuxedo. (See figs 13–14 and 13–19.)

The social event, if it is hosted by a military commander, will usually specify the dress on the invitation and usually specify No headgear, even if It starts a little before retreat because of the coat room logistics.

The figures 13-14 and 13-19 show the after retreat version. Unit awards are worn as well as identification and qualification badges. On the enlisted figure, 13-19, it Is depicted without DUI on the shoulder loops. The only time unit awards are modified is when taking a DA photo in that you may only wear those permanently awarded to the SM.

No bloused boots when worn as a dress uniform.
13–11. Accessories
The following accessories are normally worn with the blue uniforms.
a. Belt, black web, with brass tip (see para 20–2b).
b. Boots, combat, black leather (only when bloused trousers are authorized; not authorized with the Army dress uniform) (see para 20–3b).

670-1 19-31 seems straight forward on the background trimming on parachutist and air assault badges. If you aren't assigned anymore, then they are not authorized.

Response by CPT Robert Duncan Xiv made Jan 3 at 2018 4:53 PM

2018-01-03T16:53:01-05:00

If it has been awarded and there is a miniature medal wear it. Some ribbons are not miniaturized. That younger officer is a marine Piolet MAJ Duncan the fella on the left has awards from three branches and from the king of Poland

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jan 3 at 2018 5:04 PM

2018-01-03T17:04:08-05:00

I actually think SGT Private RallyPoint Member probably gave the best answer BUT the beauty of the confusion in the Regs. is that whatever you decided to wear was probably right. No one was going to question you Top and if someone did, it was only because they were even more confused than you. Top Ibarra was wearing his medals upside down, oh shit mine must be wrong then? The only thing that actually stays the same is that everything changes.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 23 at 2018 2:59 PM

2018-10-23T14:59:51-04:00

All the BALL or formal dinners I have been too you are authorized take your Jacket off while eating dinner or after the events are over for dancing. bUt you have to look professional when you exit the event.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2019 8:08 PM

2019-10-26T20:08:00-04:00

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2020 9:00 PM

2020-06-12T21:00:32-04:00

When The Service uniform is converted to Dress Blues, the DUI is removed for them shoulder epaulets. That is it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2020 9:01 PM

2020-06-12T21:01:25-04:00

When The Service uniform is converted to Dress Blues, the DUI is removed for them shoulder epaulets. That is it.

Response by SSG Brian L. made Aug 29 at 2021 10:21 AM

2021-08-29T10:21:07-04:00

Besides the knowledge Ill glean from this post... I love a senior NCO that can admit he doesn't know all or fall back on made up stuff that was from "back in the day" .... lead from the front doesn't mean you are the smartest alive lol